Take a Bow Jonesy

[45HG 1,539]

He said he's maybe a bit underrated at Melbourne - but I think it was more of a "Nathan Jones is underrated, and he plays at Melbourne." I didn't sense that he was saying the Dees underrated him.

He also said that he wrote a few for a newspaper on the weekend - so Jones isn't the most underrated going around according to Roosy.

[Trisul 640]

It goes fantasyfootballhatemail, woeful, poor, below average, average, good, very good, superb, elite right?

[Webber 10,142]

Paul Roos just mentioned on On the Couch that he considers Jones to be a very good midfielder and that he is very underrated at the Dees. I consider Roos to be one of the more astute judges and would have to agree with his assessment.

Nooooooo! Nathan Jones underrated? Well sit me down and spin me round! You'd never imagine that from reading some people here. They know who they are, and as judges of midfield attributes, I MIGHT just give more credence to a premiership winning coach with a particular talent for constructing a class midfield.

[The Chazz 4,077]

He said he's maybe a bit underrated at Melbourne - but I think it was more of a "Nathan Jones is underrated, and he plays at Melbourne." I didn't sense that he was saying the Dees underrated him.

He also said that he wrote a few for a newspaper on the weekend - so Jones isn't the most underrated going around according to Roosy.

Not sure if you're a Jones-hater HG, but you're right, Roos did have to do a top 5 for a newspaper on the weekend, and Jones wasn't one of them. However, he was the name he mentioned last night, so in theory he could be considered Roos' 6th most underrated in the AFL. Considering there are some 650 or so players listed in the AFL, I think to be named the 6th most underrated by someone recently out of the game, who is also someone that a lot of people on here are wanting as our next coach, shows a lot about NJ.

Regardless of the technicality, it was good to hear that a former premiership coach can obviously see a lot in Nathan's game, to the point where he used to use one of the best taggers of recent time to run with him. Chunk obviously has certain tasks each week, and the fact that he's played something like 90% of all possible games since his debut, might just show that he is doing a lot of things right. However, some still fail to see through this!

[Robbie57 1,991]

I rate Roos as a coach. Roos was an alchemist turning the lead in the saddle bags of other teams into gold. Roos's Delphic (and to some Daffy) utterances like "Jones is under rated" and "Melbourne should have kept Miller" can confound us. Here is a man who serious thinks he could turn Miller into a good forward. Whilst we openly scoff we also secretly think he would do it.

He has taken several groups of average players and underperforming players from other clubs to levels above where they should be on any rational assessment of their talent and in one year to a Premiership. If you look back at his premiership team there were few "elite" players in the list just some hard at it never say die working class mids.

Last night on the couch we got an insight into how he did it and its simplicity is breathtaking. He said "we pick a player for a role and make sure he knows and follows the responsibilities of that role." Simple.

Thats why he rates Jones, a player who knows his role and takes responsibility for it. When he doesn't perform he makes damn sure he does everything he can the next week to perform. No doubt why Bailey rates him as do his team mates.

He made an excellent point about Col Sylvia (who is probably our most talented player and should win a Brownlow) that he doesn't always execute to his role or responsibility. He showed the "in the back" free at half back followed by the 50 metres. Col didn't honour his responsibilities in that instance. Dunn likewise with his silly tackles.

Week in and week out Moloney a player of lesser talent to Sylvia plays his role to the tee. Jurrah was told last week to use his pace to get into space and stop leaping and he followed it with spectacular results.

Time for Col and others to step up and stop doing just enough.

A team full of players with Jones and Moloney's attitude and we will be unstoppable because there is a bucket load of talent in our team.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Robbie57

[Arrow 1,257]

I rate Roos as a coach. Roos was an alchemist turning the lead in the saddle bags of other teams into gold. Roos's Delphic (and to some Daffy) utterances like "Jones is under rated" and "Melbourne should have kept Miller" can confound us. Here is a man who serious thinks he could turn Miller into a good forward. Whilst we openly scoff we also secretly think he would do it.

He has taken several groups of average players and underperforming players from other clubs to levels above where they should be on any rational assessment of their talent and in one year to a Premiership. If you look back at his premiership team there were few "elite" players in the list just some hard at it never say die working class mids.

Last night on the couch we got an insight into how he did it and its simplicity is breathtaking. He said "we pick a player for a role and make sure he knows and follows the responsibilities of that role." Simple.

That’s why he rates Jones, a player who knows his role and takes responsibility for it. When he doesn't perform he makes damn sure he does everything he can the next week to perform. No doubt why Bailey rates him as do his team mates.

He made an excellent point about Col Sylvia (who is probably our most talented player and should win a Brownlow) that he doesn't always execute to his role or responsibility. He showed the "in the back" free at half back followed by the 50 metres. Col didn't honour his responsibilities in that instance. Dunn likewise with his silly tackles.

Week in and week out Moloney a player of lesser talent to Sylvia plays his role to the tee. Jurrah was told last week to use his pace to get into space and stop leaping and he followed it with spectacular results.

Time for Col and others to step up and stop doing just enough.

A team full of players with Jones and Moloney's attitude and we will be unstoppable because there is a bucket load of talent in our team.

Great post Robbie

[sylvinator 96]

He has Big limitations, but he also brings some strengths to a young, small, timid side.

I think Jones plays a super important role our team atm.

Scully, Gysberts, Morton, Trengove, Blease, Bail and Bennel might be a good football brigade in the future, but none of them have the required strength to go in and match the hardened bodies of opposition midfields.

I watched the second quater closely for a second time, and for the first 10-15 minutes, Brissy (Power, Black, Rockliffe etc) were going lower and harder at the footy- Moloney and Jones really stood up for us and kept us in it.

Will we need his harder body in 3 years time? Maybe not. Maybe he can play a Luke Ball type role for us as our 6th best midfielder (remember Ball has some serious deficiencies to his game as well- can't kick more than 40m- but played a very important role for Collingwood last year.

Whatever happens in 2-3 years, he has a role in our team every week atm

[45HG 1,539]

Not sure if you're a Jones-hater HG, but you're right, Roos did have to do a top 5 for a newspaper on the weekend, and Jones wasn't one of them. However, he was the name he mentioned last night, so in theory he could be considered Roos' 6th most underrated in the AFL. Considering there are some 650 or so players listed in the AFL, I think to be named the 6th most underrated by someone recently out of the game, who is also someone that a lot of people on here are wanting as our next coach, shows a lot about NJ.

Regardless of the technicality, it was good to hear that a former premiership coach can obviously see a lot in Nathan's game, to the point where he used to use one of the best taggers of recent time to run with him. Chunk obviously has certain tasks each week, and the fact that he's played something like 90% of all possible games since his debut, might just show that he is doing a lot of things right. However, some still fail to see through this!

Not sure where the "insert player's name-hater" comes from on this site for people who have question marks over a certain players game, but that isn't really the case here anyway.

I think you're reading between the lines too much, I didn't mean anything by bringing up Roos' underrated list, just thought it was relevant.

The nature of an "underrated" list is interesting as well. You're right, that it's a pretty big thing to be pulled out of over 600 players, but it also means the person doing it recognises that the player isn't very widely rated. I'd say at least 100 players in the AFL are pretty well rated.

In terms of Jones, I'm certainly not a "hater." Having played a tiny bit of junior footy with him, I have a soft spot for him. However I just don't think he's damaging enough/clean enough with his disposal. He certainly gives his all and with many players, that's all you can ask for.

For those that say he can't be a part of a top 4 team, I think you're forgetting that in his first season he entered late and played a big role in our push for top 4. The fact we couldn't roll Adelaide in Round 22 hurts the cause, but I think he showed then that he could be a cog in a top side. I don't think his game has necessarily gone backwards since then so I think he could find a role. Being a very similar player to Moloney, but not as good, hurts his cause IMO.

[Rogue 585]

Regardless of the technicality, it was good to hear that a former premiership coach can obviously see a lot in Nathan's game, to the point where he used to use one of the best taggers of recent time to run with him.

Quick question: When Roos was coaching who else did we have to tag?

[Hannabal 4]

I watched 'On the couch' last night and heard Roos' comments. I immediately had visions of some of my Demonland brethren jumping over couches and banging into hallways in their rush to get to a keyboard. Needless to say it brought a wry smile.

I may be a tad harsh on Jones. I had such high expectations when we drafted him at pick 12, but the realisation that he'll never be elite (A grade), or even reach B grade status, such as Luke Ball, is disappointing. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, he does have some excellent traits, such as a strong body, immense courage, elite endurance and he's a great trainer. At 22 and with 90 odd games there's still time, but I just don't see the creativity or footy smarts required. Up until this year I had Jobe Watson as a B grader, so perhaps my rating system is harsher than some of you. I rate with premierships in mind. Marc Murphy is a B grader, but some here would argue that Jones is too. If you want a laugh go try telling other supporters that Nathan Jones is as good as Marc Murphy. And if you think that Murphy is an A grader you're premature.

Paul Roos has a great record of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse, so who knows, perhaps he could transform Jones into a B grader. I suspect I've seen more of Jones than Roos. Footy is an opinion business and coaches often get it wrong. Look at the recent recruiting by Voss as an example. In fact the game is littered with terrible trading by clubs where opposition coaches got it wrong. And when I say "got it wrong", it's fair enough that Roos rates Jones, but to use Jones as his example of "one of the games most underrated players" is ludicrous. There was a reason that Jones was dropped late last year only to get a reprieve when there was a late ommission. I doubt Roos even knows that Jones was borderline best 22 as recently as last August. And what has Jones done this year ? One semi decent game. In his first two games he gathered 16 possessions in each. It's just not enough. It's a very underrated skill to find the footy, but it seemingly rarely gets mentioned. Jones has never won enough possessions. I don't overly rate Moloney, but at least he has an ability to get his hands on the footy. People will use games where he's tagged to excuse his low numbers, but plenty of taggers get a lot of the footy.

Roos also said recently that he rates Brad Miller. He's got that wrong too. If Miller had smashed packs like Hurley does he'd have been of value this year in our forward line, but for a mature body he just didn't hit packs. I suspect Roos is remembering a couple of good games from Miller in defence on Hall.

Roos also stated a couple of weeks back that he rated McLean when they were discussing Carlton's list. Once again I disagree. McLean's lack of pace and average handballing isn't condusive to the game in 2011. I reckon that one of McLean's best ever games was at the SCG against Sydney in early 2005. I vividly remember McLean winning the hard ball in the centre and running straight towards 50 to kick a couple of impressive goals. Like his views on Miller, I reckon Roos has this game in the back of his mind when referencing McLean.

Last week Roos said that we made a mistake getting rid of McDonald and Bruce. Again I disagree. McDonald was 34 and Bruce well past his best. Making finals this year isn't significant to me, but getting games into the kids of our future is.

[Red Sox 2]

Roos didn't say he was underrated by the Dees - just underrated in general. He rated him as a very good mid fielder - (as said before) so much so they usually put Kirk on him.

That would clearly put him above a C grader and at odds with Hannabal's view.

Clearly put him above a C grader???? Because ONE person mentions he is under rated?

Some people are so easily pleased.

Roos wanted to trade Jude Bolton 3 years ago. Jude Bolton is a major reason Sydney are yet to loose a game.

Opinions are great.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Red Sox

[The Chazz 4,077]

I watched 'On the couch' last night and heard Roos' comments. I immediately had visions of some of my Demonland brethren jumping over couches and banging into hallways in their rush to get to a keyboard. Needless to say it brought a wry smile.

I may be a tad harsh on Jones. I had such high expectations when we drafted him at pick 12, but the realisation that he'll never be elite (A grade), or even reach B grade status, such as Luke Ball, is disappointing. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, he does have some excellent traits, such as a strong body, immense courage, elite endurance and he's a great trainer. At 22 and with 90 odd games there's still time, but I just don't see the creativity or footy smarts required. Up until this year I had Jobe Watson as a B grader, so perhaps my rating system is harsher than some of you. I rate with premierships in mind. Marc Murphy is a B grader, but some here would argue that Jones is too. If you want a laugh go try telling other supporters that Nathan Jones is as good as Marc Murphy. And if you think that Murphy is an A grader you're premature.

Paul Roos has a great record of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse, so who knows, perhaps he could transform Jones into a B grader. I suspect I've seen more of Jones than Roos. Footy is an opinion business and coaches often get it wrong. Look at the recent recruiting by Voss as an example. In fact the game is littered with terrible trading by clubs where opposition coaches got it wrong. And when I say "got it wrong", it's fair enough that Roos rates Jones, but to use Jones as his example of "one of the games most underrated players" is ludicrous. There was a reason that Jones was dropped late last year only to get a reprieve when there was a late ommission. I doubt Roos even knows that Jones was borderline best 22 as recently as last August. And what has Jones done this year ? One semi decent game. In his first two games he gathered 16 possessions in each. It's just not enough. It's a very underrated skill to find the footy, but it seemingly rarely gets mentioned. Jones has never won enough possessions. I don't overly rate Moloney, but at least he has an ability to get his hands on the footy. People will use games where he's tagged to excuse his low numbers, but plenty of taggers get a lot of the footy.

Roos also said recently that he rates Brad Miller. He's got that wrong too. If Miller had smashed packs like Hurley does he'd have been of value this year in our forward line, but for a mature body he just didn't hit packs. I suspect Roos is remembering a couple of good games from Miller in defence on Hall.

Roos also stated a couple of weeks back that he rated McLean when they were discussing Carlton's list. Once again I disagree. McLean's lack of pace and average handballing isn't condusive to the game in 2011. I reckon that one of McLean's best ever games was at the SCG against Sydney in early 2005. I vividly remember McLean winning the hard ball in the centre and running straight towards 50 to kick a couple of impressive goals. Like his views on Miller, I reckon Roos has this game in the back of his mind when referencing McLean.

Last week Roos said that we made a mistake getting rid of McDonald and Bruce. Again I disagree. McDonald was 34 and Bruce well past his best. Making finals this year isn't significant to me, but getting games into the kids of our future is.

A very accurate post there H, well done.

Only thing I will disagree on is the comparison of Jones and Moloney. The only thing they have in common is their size and pace. Moloney does, and should get more possessions than Jones, because his main role in our team is to get the tap from Jamar, then dish it off to someone else. Jones, especially for the last season and a bit, has played a lot more tagging roles (except against Sydney where he is the one tha tgets tagged), aimed at developing the defensive side of his game. Where Jones needs to step up is to regularly get 20+ possessions a game, even as a run with player. If he can add this, he will be very important going forward. He does have the ability to sneak to half forward, and make his opponent accountable. I think with a better midfield, which is still a couple of years away, it will allow Jones to play the role that he should be - the true B grade midfielder.

I like your comparisons with Murphy, as I don't have him as an A grader yet, but ask most Carlton supporters and they do. I don't have Judd as an A grader though, he is above that, in the same way that I think Scully will be.

To clarify my posts, I'm not getting caught up in Roos' comments about Jones being underated, I just think there is a lot of unfair criticsm directed at Jones on this site, and when people have him under the microscope, as soon as an error is made, they are straight on to him. Some need to realise that he has 21 teammates, and they all make mistakes, some worse than Jones.

[Robbie57 1,991]

I watched 'On the couch' last night and heard Roos' comments. I immediately had visions of some of my Demonland brethren jumping over couches and banging into hallways in their rush to get to a keyboard. Needless to say it brought a wry smile.

I may be a tad harsh on Jones. .......

Roos also said recently that he rates Brad Miller. He's got that wrong too. If Miller had smashed packs like Hurley does he'd have been of value this year in our forward line, but for a mature body he just didn't hit packs. I suspect Roos is remembering a couple of good games from Miller in defence on Hall.

Roos also stated a couple of weeks back that he rated McLean when they were discussing Carlton's list. Once again I disagree. McLean's lack of pace and average handballing isn't condusive to the game in 2011. I reckon that one of McLean's best ever games was at the SCG against Sydney in early 2005. I vividly remember McLean winning the hard ball in the centre and running straight towards 50 to kick a couple of impressive goals. Like his views on Miller, I reckon Roos has this game in the back of his mind when referencing McLean.

Last week Roos said that we made a mistake getting rid of McDonald and Bruce. Again I disagree. McDonald was 34 and Bruce well past his best. Making finals this year isn't significant to me, but getting games into the kids of our future is.

I think the real thing to take away from what Roos said is not that he might be right or wrong about specific players rather he looks at a role for the team and makes them play that role and be responsible for it.

We do jump at our keyboards too quickly and I think thats the value of Roos reflections. Is our gameplan rebounding from Half back working, what roles are our players demanded to paly and are they reaching those targets?

I dont think he has one game in mind he sees what they could do within a plan.

He seems to be the master of incrimental performance improvement which is probably why he favours established players compared to youth.

So as I said above the question is not who is A , B or C but rather who is delivering on the role demanded of them (assuming that demand is being made)to the standard required. I'd like Sylvia (potential A grader) to deliver week in and out at that level but he lapses at times and so on for others in the squad. Reality is we will always have a mix and its how we task each player and if they deliver (for 120 minutes) on that which will make the difference.

[rpfc 27,534]

Whatever your measure - Jones is not in the elite echelon of midfielders and I don't think he ever will be.

But that doesn't mean he won't have a role to play in the group as we strive to win the flag over the next few years.

The major obstacle to that future is his poor decision making (as opposed to his adequate kicking) skills and an inability to play anything other than a 'rover' type role.

Overcome one of those and he will have the will and application to make a very successful footballing career.

[Webber 10,142]

Whatever your measure - Jones is not in the elite echelon of midfielders and I don't think he ever will be.

But that doesn't mean he won't have a role to play in the group as we strive to win the flag over the next few years.

The major obstacle to that future is his poor decision making (as opposed to his adequate kicking) skills and an inability to play anything other than a 'rover' type role.

Overcome one of those and he will have the will and application to make a very successful footballing career.

Strange things, opinions. I saw all but 3 games early last year, and I rate Jones' decision making as top 5 on our list, and his 40m plus foot disposal as second only to Aaron Davey. Am I less objective than you?

[rpfc 27,534]

Strange things, opinions. I saw all but 3 games early last year, and I rate Jones' decision making as top 5 on our list, and his 40m plus foot disposal as second only to Aaron Davey. Am I less objective than you?

I can only give my opinion on the Dees, not on your 'objectiveness' relative to mine.

I think our talented kids have far superior decision making skills than Nathan. And in essence, I said he can hit targets, I just think he regularly picks the wrong one.

[Red Sox 2]

Strange things, opinions. I saw all but 3 games early last year, and I rate Jones' decision making as top 5 on our list, and his 40m plus foot disposal as second only to Aaron Davey. Am I less objective than you?

Did you get that from the two or 3 roosts he kicked at goal for the year 2010?? I can't recount too many more as easily as you can.

I rate most of his disposal as not great, certainly not consistent and if it was he would be talked about a lot higher than a possible under rated player from an ex coach on a Monday night football program.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Strange things, opinions. I saw all but 3 games early last year, and I rate Jones' decision making as top 5 on our list, and his 40m plus foot disposal as second only to Aaron Davey. Am I less objective than you?

I'm with you Webber, although I am watching most of my games on TV. The problem for Nathan is that when he gets the ball, he's generally under the pump at a stoppage, and often a quick kick forward is the only option. If such kick doesn't hit a Melbourne jumper, or more exact, hits an opposition jumper, people believe his disposal is poor. I would have him in our Top 3 from 50m out having a shot on the run, and I also think that his handball skills, especially when our running game is going, is as good as anyone at the club.

The issue that some people may have is when we have our running game shutdown. I think his disposal looks worse, but I put this down to pressure, especially when there are a lot of players around the ball. It has nothing to do with poor decision making, or poor execution, rather than just keep moving the ball around so we don't get pinged. Most times it works (causes a new stoppage as the guy he handballs to is claimed straight away with no prior opportunity = ball up), sometimes it doesn't = what people on here sweat for!

Will be going to the game this weekend, so hopefully we are well up early so I can sit back and pay close attention to Jones and Watts.

[Webber 10,142]

Did you get that from the two or 3 roosts he kicked at goal for the year 2010?? I can't recount too many more as easily as you can.

I rate most of his disposal as not great, certainly not consistent and if it was he would be talked about a lot higher than a possible under rated player from an ex coach on a Monday night football program.

I was in fact commenting JUST on his decision making and foot skills. His long bomb goals are merely a bonus. I was thinking more about his passing into to the forward fifty, lace out, and onto the nipple of Brad Green, largely. The weakest aspects of his game are in fact his overhead marking and ability to contest the overhead mark....considered by comparison to Trengove, or Bennell, or Tapscott for example, and his handballing is just ok. Possibly his greatest problem however, and I'll be interested to see if it ever improves, is his inability to garner free kicks. For mine, this is a key talent in the A grade midfielders. I think I could count on one hand the free kicks he was given last year. Compare this to the 'head-ducking' brigade of Sam Mitchell (who is also very talented at dropping the pill at the opportune moment), and Daniel Rich, and it's a problem. Jones' 'bullocking' vigour is to blame for this, but at least he's not getting pinged for holding it these days. Thus, he is not an 'elite' midfielder by any means, but more and more he becomes one of the first guys I would pick each week.

[rpfc 27,534]

I'm with you Webber, although I am watching most of my games on TV. The problem for Nathan is that when he gets the ball, he's generally under the pump at a stoppage, and often a quick kick forward is the only option. If such kick doesn't hit a Melbourne jumper, or more exact, hits an opposition jumper, people believe his disposal is poor.

I believe his decision making is poor because sometimes when he does that kick from a stoppage there is an option by hand that he doesn't see or ignores.

That's where he can improve.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I believe his decision making is poor because sometimes when he does that kick from a stoppage there is an option by hand that he doesn't see or ignores.

That's where he can improve.

That can be put down to 3 things;

1. No talk from his teammates

2. Inability to improve his close-in stoppage work

3. The game plan is to clear it from a stoppage if possible, by foot, if not, then by hand 2nd.

Sadly, none of us know which one above is correct. But becuase of the fact Jones is running at around 90% of games played since he started, I'm putting option 2 as unlikely, until proven differently!

[Red Sox 2]

I was in fact commenting JUST on his decision making and foot skills. His long bomb goals are merely a bonus. I was thinking more about his passing into to the forward fifty, lace out, and onto the nipple of Brad Green, largely. The weakest aspects of his game are in fact his overhead marking and ability to contest the overhead mark....considered by comparison to Trengove, or Bennell, or Tapscott for example, and his handballing is just ok. Possibly his greatest problem however, and I'll be interested to see if it ever improves, is his inability to garner free kicks. For mine, this is a key talent in the A grade midfielders. I think I could count on one hand the free kicks he was given last year. Compare this to the 'head-ducking' brigade of Sam Mitchell (who is also very talented at dropping the pill at the opportune moment), and Daniel Rich, and it's a problem. Jones' 'bullocking' vigour is to blame for this, but at least he's not getting pinged for holding it these days. Thus, he is not an 'elite' midfielder by any means, but more and more he becomes one of the first guys I would pick each week.

You put your point across well Webber.

I fear it is the non improvement in those tight confined spaces that say something, he is not thinking with any surety of what to do with the ball. Perhaps other than getting it forward.

[rpfc 27,534]

That can be put down to 3 things;

1. No talk from his teammates

2. Inability to improve his close-in stoppage work

3. The game plan is to clear it from a stoppage if possible, by foot, if not, then by hand 2nd.

Sadly, none of us know which one above is correct. But becuase of the fact Jones is running at around 90% of games played since he started, I'm putting option 2 as unlikely, until proven differently!

4. He doesn't look for the releasing handball.

He needs to work on several areas of his game. Don't see why this is so revelatory.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That can be put down to 3 things;

1. No talk from his teammates

2. Inability to improve his close-in stoppage work

3. The game plan is to clear it from a stoppage if possible, by foot, if not, then by hand 2nd.

Sadly, none of us know which one above is correct. But becuase of the fact Jones is running at around 90% of games played since he started, I'm putting option 2 as unlikely, until proven differently!

Bailey has said repeatedly that the clearance from the stoppage is the best option available ...period. He did not specify foot or hand.

4. He doesn't look for the releasing handball.

He needs to work on several areas of his game. Don't see why this is so revelatory.

Ping! I was going to say lack of vision for Jones but this will do.

[DeeBruce 4]

I watched 'On the couch' last night and heard Roos' comments. I immediately had visions of some of my Demonland brethren jumping over couches and banging into hallways in their rush to get to a keyboard. Needless to say it brought a wry smile.

I may be a tad harsh on Jones. I had such high expectations when we drafted him at pick 12, but the realisation that he'll never be elite (A grade), or even reach B grade status, such as Luke Ball, is disappointing. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, he does have some excellent traits, such as a strong body, immense courage, elite endurance and he's a great trainer. At 22 and with 90 odd games there's still time, but I just don't see the creativity or footy smarts required. Up until this year I had Jobe Watson as a B grader, so perhaps my rating system is harsher than some of you. I rate with premierships in mind. Marc Murphy is a B grader, but some here would argue that Jones is too. If you want a laugh go try telling other supporters that Nathan Jones is as good as Marc Murphy. And if you think that Murphy is an A grader you're premature.

Paul Roos has a great record of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse, so who knows, perhaps he could transform Jones into a B grader. I suspect I've seen more of Jones than Roos. Footy is an opinion business and coaches often get it wrong. Look at the recent recruiting by Voss as an example. In fact the game is littered with terrible trading by clubs where opposition coaches got it wrong. And when I say "got it wrong", it's fair enough that Roos rates Jones, but to use Jones as his example of "one of the games most underrated players" is ludicrous. There was a reason that Jones was dropped late last year only to get a reprieve when there was a late ommission. I doubt Roos even knows that Jones was borderline best 22 as recently as last August. And what has Jones done this year ? One semi decent game. In his first two games he gathered 16 possessions in each. It's just not enough. It's a very underrated skill to find the footy, but it seemingly rarely gets mentioned. Jones has never won enough possessions. I don't overly rate Moloney, but at least he has an ability to get his hands on the footy. People will use games where he's tagged to excuse his low numbers, but plenty of taggers get a lot of the footy.

Roos also said recently that he rates Brad Miller. He's got that wrong too. If Miller had smashed packs like Hurley does he'd have been of value this year in our forward line, but for a mature body he just didn't hit packs. I suspect Roos is remembering a couple of good games from Miller in defence on Hall.

Roos also stated a couple of weeks back that he rated McLean when they were discussing Carlton's list. Once again I disagree. McLean's lack of pace and average handballing isn't condusive to the game in 2011. I reckon that one of McLean's best ever games was at the SCG against Sydney in early 2005. I vividly remember McLean winning the hard ball in the centre and running straight towards 50 to kick a couple of impressive goals. Like his views on Miller, I reckon Roos has this game in the back of his mind when referencing McLean.

Last week Roos said that we made a mistake getting rid of McDonald and Bruce. Again I disagree. McDonald was 34 and Bruce well past his best. Making finals this year isn't significant to me, but getting games into the kids of our future is.

For Roos to rate Miller, McLean etc - it's just him talking off the top of his head. You are quite right H. He may remember a couple of good games.

But for him to rate Jones enough to put Kirk on him- that's not just Roos' opinion. That would have been decided upon by the whole match committee with specific input from the opposition coach (who would have watched at least the preceding Dees match) and the mids coach.

But I guess it is possible you know more than the 09/10 Sydney Swans Match Committee.

Edited April 12, 2011 by DeeBruce