It's The Midfield Stupid!

[jnrmac 19,905]

Yet, people STILL expect miracles!

No we don't. We expect intensity, commitment and some semblance of a game plan.

[The Chazz 4,077]

No we don't. We expect intensity, commitment and some semblance of a game plan.

Didn't we have it in the 2nd quarter?

Maybe you expect consistency, which is fair enough, especially from our senior players. Expecting it against a stronger and much better team than ours is unrealistic.

[jnrmac 19,905]

Didn't we have it in the 2nd quarter?

Maybe you expect consistency, which is fair enough, especially from our senior players. Expecting it against a stronger and much better team than ours is unrealistic.

We played a purple patch and had 90% efficiency. That says we did make the Hawks pay and did it quite well. But you're kidding yourself if you ever think we were in control of the game.

I am talking about the simple things that don't need big bodies or 100 games experience. Running, movement, running, chasing, tackling, running and more running. DOn't tell me they ran out of legs at half time cos I won't believe you.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We played a purple patch and had 90% efficiency. That says we did make the Hawks pay and did it quite well. But you're kidding yourself if you ever think we were in control of the game.

I am talking about the simple things that don't need big bodies or 100 games experience. Running, movement, running, chasing, tackling, running and more running. DOn't tell me they ran out of legs at half time cos I won't believe you.

Didn't say we had control. You wanted to see intensity, commitment and a resemblence of our game plan. I'm asking if you saw it in the 2nd quarter or not?

I have no idea what was wrong in the 3rd quarter, but they looked as flat as a sh!t carters hat. Did they run out of legs? Obviously you don't think they did, I have no idea what it was.

[Disco Demons 92]

We can keep players on the list and give them games to match current superstar teams but certain players in our midfield will never get to those levels. They are dead weight passengers.

I've convinced that our passengers from sunday will "star" against the lions this weekend...then there poor performance against a quality team will be forgoten...time and time again this happens at melb.

Gysberts needs to come in...asap...he has shown an ability to get 30 touches against quality teams.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We can keep players on the list and give them games to match current superstar teams but certain players in our midfield will never get to those levels. They are dead weight passengers.

I've convinced that our passengers from sunday will "star" against the lions this weekend...then there poor performance against a quality team will be forgoten...time and time again this happens at melb.

Gysberts needs to come in...asap...he has shown an ability to get 30 touches against quality teams.

But where we have been struggling is that there is no pressure from beneath to take their spot. Ok, Gysberts has had a couple of good games in the reserves, so now he deserves a call up. Until some of these kids do this, our passengers (I'd like for you to name them - I'm assuming Jones?), have to stay, especially if they are more experienced.

[Disco Demons 92]

But where we have been struggling is that there is no pressure from beneath to take their spot. Ok, Gysberts has had a couple of good games in the reserves, so now he deserves a call up. Until some of these kids do this, our passengers (I'd like for you to name them - I'm assuming Jones?), have to stay, especially if they are more experienced.

if we don't play blokes like gysberts now...i can see us having a glut of second and third year players having only played a handful of games midway through the season.

For example: Gysberts, Strauss and Blease (played nab cup only)

if melb are serious about developing players we need to play blokes now...Gysberts is ready for a call up...we need someone who can get his hands on the ball...

Can you imagine the media going after our midfield if gysberts comes in and gets 30 touches and others show nothing again.

[The Chazz 4,077]

if we don't play blokes like gysberts now...i can see us having a glut of second and third year players having only played a handful of games midway through the season.

For example: Gysberts, Strauss and Blease (played nab cup only)

if melb are serious about developing players we need to play blokes now...Gysberts is ready for a call up...we need someone who can get his hands on the ball...

Can you imagine the media going after our midfield if gysberts comes in and gets 30 touches and others show nothing again.

Appreciate that, but give me the 3 players that will be replaced.

[Chook 14,998]

Appreciate that, but give me the 3 players that will be replaced.

Maric, Jones, Jetta. Done.

[H_T 3,032]

Didn't we have it in the 2nd quarter?

Maybe you expect consistency, which is fair enough, especially from our senior players. Expecting it against a stronger and much better team than ours is unrealistic.

We were never in control, only on the scoreboard stat at half-time. The stats confirmed this and so did Clarkson post match.

Fans expect a frik'n contest or a fight at least, they don't expect the team to virtually stop and not even say boo during 10 unanswered goals, plus all the other shots that missed or went behind the stick ! No matter what average age our list is at.

One wonders what the opinion some might have if the Hawks scoreline was 26.16 and not 16.26 !

[The Chazz 4,077]

We were never in control, only on the scoreboard stat at half-time. The stats confirmed this and so did Clarkson post match.

Fans expect a frik'n contest or a fight at least, they don't expect the team to virtually stop and not even say boo during 10 unanswered goals, plus all the other shots that missed or went behind the stick ! No matter what average age our list is at.

One wonders what the opinion some might have if the Hawks scoreline was 26.16 and not 16.26 !

Again, I didn't say we were in control.

I can tell you how I would be feeling if the score was 26.16, I'd feel exactly the same way. Hawthorn were bloody good, we were bloody terrible. Hawthorn are a far better side than us, and I think it was credit to our players that they actually played some pretty damn good footy in that 2nd quarter.

I know where we are at, I have realistic expectations, and unlike some, I know the ability of our senior players. The sooner that our supporters sit down and have a decent look at our playing list, be honest about our senior players, and understand where they list is at in terms of personnel changes and games played, the better off this forum will be. To give you some idea, since 2007, we have had approx 20 players play their first game for the MFC, and 7 still yet to debut. Massive personnel change.

[Demon Tragic 0]

And now for us....... (Moloney, McKenzie, Scully, Trengove, Sylvia)** 24 years on the list and 277 games. BTW, we were missing three of these players on Sunday!!

For all those that think these figures are just excuses for losing and accepting poor performances - your dreamin'.

We've a way to go boys so like has been said before - enjoy the ride or get off now and join again at a later station when some of this shite is behind us.

*years on list maybe a little rubbery but you get the drift.

** edit to remove Morton and add Sylvia.

Except our Midfield on the weekend mainly consisted of Moloney, Jones, Davey, Sylvia & Bail - 29yrs on the list and 461 games. Picking our least experienced players to support your theory? Why only pick 5 players? The sad fact is that we should be expecting more from the experienced players and Bail was the only player listed that had a fair dinkum crack!

[Axis of Bob 11,219]

The ones chosen are our best midfielders. Our older, more experienced, ones are nowhere near as good.

[H_T 3,032]

Again, I didn't say we were in control.

I can tell you how I would be feeling if the score was 26.16, I'd feel exactly the same way. Hawthorn were bloody good, we were bloody terrible. Hawthorn are a far better side than us, and I think it was credit to our players that they actually played some pretty damn good footy in that 2nd quarter.

I know where we are at, I have realistic expectations, and unlike some, I know the ability of our senior players. The sooner that our supporters sit down and have a decent look at our playing list, be honest about our senior players, and understand where they list is at in terms of personnel changes and games played, the better off this forum will be. To give you some idea, since 2007, we have had approx 20 players play their first game for the MFC, and 7 still yet to debut. Massive personnel change.

Rather than go over old ground, I'll just say two posters interpreted that you meant we were in control in the 2nd quarter.

billy, I've been banging on about the realistic expectations of our evolving list for 3 years now along those lines. You should already be aware of this, but in any case do a search if you must. I understand all that, so there's no need to shift the goal posts on this discussion. I'm also aware of where Hawthorn are at.

But all this doesn't excuse the insipid and lack of effort shown in the third quarter, nor does it excuse the fact that there was no leadership, no desire or sign of "follow me boys" from any of our players to arrest the roll-on effect that went for 20 + minutes. Fact is, they've managed to do it previously in other games. ie. stem the flow. But in this instance, there was F all fight, uninterested, no intent, second to the ball football. It was simply unacceptable.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Rather than go over old ground, I'll just say two posters interpreted that you meant we were in control in the 2nd quarter.

billy, I've been banging on about the realistic expectations of our evolving list for 3 years now along those lines. You should already be aware of this, but in any case do a search if you must. I understand all that, so there's no need to shift the goal posts on this discussion. I'm also aware of where Hawthorn are at.

But all this doesn't excuse the insipid and lack of effort shown in the third quarter, nor does it excuse the fact that there was no leadership, no desire or sign of "follow me boys" from any of our players to arrest the roll-on effect that went for 20 + minutes. Fact is, they've managed to do it previously in other games. ie. stem the flow. But in this instance, there was F all fight, uninterested, no intent, second to the ball football. It was simply unacceptable.

HT - I apologise if you and another poster read words in my posts that aren't there. Some things I can control, some things I can't. As usual, what you read in to posts is accurate, regardless of what is actually written.

Your concerns with our performance are the same that I had for the GC on Saturday night, none of their senior players stood up and took the game on. I will watch them again this weekend, just like I'll be watching our boys, to see just which leaders stand up.

While everyone is entitled to voice disappointment after 1 poor performance, not many are coming up with a solution. Maybe it's becuase there isn't one until we see if this is an ongoing issue, or just a one off.

Edited April 5, 2011 by billy2803

[Nasher 33,607]

Your concerns with our performance are the same that I had for the GC on Saturday night, none of their senior players stood up and took the game on. I will watch them again this weekend, just like I'll be watching our boys, to see just which leaders stand up.

GC have the same problem as us - with the exception of an obvious handful, their senior players are 1) few and far between and 2) bog ordinary.

[Disco Demons 92]

Collingwood (Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas, Ball, Beams). 35 years on the list and 583 games.

Geelong (Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Johnson, Corey). 49 years on the list and 871 games.

Hawks (Burgoyne, Mitchell, Sewell, Rioli, Lewis). 41 years on the list and 669 games.

Saints (Dal Santo, Hayes, Montagna, Jones, Ray). 45 years on the list and 789 games.

Bulldogs (Boyd, Cross, Cooney, Griffen, Higgins). 42 years on the list and 676 games.

Could any of our current midfield get a game in these teams?

[H_T 3,032]

BUMP

It is amazing the difference in cohesion between a depleted midfield and a much strengthened quality midfield with some class.

Enter Tom Scully for his first game, Jack Trengove from a 3 match suspension, a fitter Jordie McKenzie, an improved Jordan Gysberts. In addition with the 'midfield veterans' in Jones, Sylvia & Moloney and all of the sudden we see a big improvement. Green can then be utilised a bit up forward with a tall ruck, Jurrah and first gamer Howe can cause the opposition coach to get ulcers and the critics can eat 'some' words. Our team all of the sudden regains much better structure up forward on the back of more contested possessions, and a higher tackle rate. (McKenzie = 13 tackles - missed you Jordie!).

As Leigh Matthews informed all - more often than not the two main KPI's they often use in today's game, if you have more tackles and more contested possessions, invariably you end up winning the game. Very rarely do you lose a game when you come out on top in those two stats.

With the Bombers missing Hocking & Watson through the middle and our returns of our quality picks....I thank TAB for offering $4.20.

[H_T 3,032]

I'm astounded that people don't seem to have caught on to this. Well, I think the apologists probably have and the torchbearers haven't.

I don't have time to do the research but we've beaten Brisbane, Suns (no Ablett), Adelaide and Essendon (no Watson and Hocking). We've drawn with Swans.

Of those teams it's hard to find too many elite midfielders. Black and Thompson are the best and they had little if any backup. Bolton I really rate but he's not a game breaker although he was the one who got Swans a draw. As everyone knows we've been without Scully and McKenzie for most of the season and Trengove for 3. It's not surprising that we lost the three games that Trengove was out.

Our top 5 midfielder (well 6 because I don't know who to leave out) have played less than 300 games between them with both Sylvia and Moloney playing over 100 each.

It's the midfield, stupid!! It's not that hard is it???

(Please don't interpret this as saying the midfield is the ONLY thing that matters)

Plus Thompson and Dangerfield went off in the Adelaide game.

Another thing Lethal states from time to time, very good players make great coaches.

Whilst I would discourage wagering at anytime...without Swan & Thomas, the $6 offering looks generous, despite how good Collingwood is. Someone should tell the bookies. It's the midfield stupid!

[bananas 428]

How's this for a stat? Friday night was just the second time that Scully, Trengove, McKenzie and Gysberts have all played in the same team at AFL level. The first was Queen's Birthday last year, when Gys got injured early.

Assuming Scully stays, imagine our midfield when that 2 games together has turned into 50? Then 100?

Exciting times ahead. (*gets shiver down spine*)

[rpfc 28,052]

Exciting times ahead. (*gets shiver down spine*)

Without being crass, my body reacted differently...

[daisycutter 29,343]

I'm astounded that people don't seem to have caught on to this. Well, I think the apologists probably have and the torchbearers haven't.

I don't have time to do the research but we've beaten Brisbane, Suns (no Ablett), Adelaide and Essendon (no Watson and Hocking). We've drawn with Swans.

Of those teams it's hard to find too many elite midfielders. Black and Thompson are the best and they had little if any backup. Bolton I really rate but he's not a game breaker although he was the one who got Swans a draw. As everyone knows we've been without Scully and McKenzie for most of the season and Trengove for 3. It's not surprising that we lost the three games that Trengove was out.

Our top 5 midfielder (well 6 because I don't know who to leave out) have played less than 300 games between them with both Sylvia and Moloney playing over 100 each.

It's the midfield, stupid!! It's not that hard is it???

(Please don't interpret this as saying the midfield is the ONLY thing that matters)

Whats this got to do with apologists and torch bearers?

Everyone knows the importance of a good midfield

You just got a huge chip on your shoulder - get over it

[daisycutter 29,343]

Without being crass, my body reacted differently...

have you seen your proctologist lately? Might be a good idea

[Hannabal 4]

I'm astounded that people don't seem to have caught on to this. Well, I think the apologists probably have and the torchbearers haven't.

Do you really think that you have come up with any startling revelations ? Games have been won in the midfield for over 100 years.

The concerns some supporters have had with Bailey was that the team was disorganised and didn't cope well against the press and haven't provided any frontal pressure themselves, which is understandable in the light of Viney's comments preseason. Also, Bailey coached teams lack consistent effort.

I'll cop a loss if the players have a crack. I'll blame the pertinent players if they don't have a crack, but I'll also lay much of the blame at the feet of the coach if he can't get consistent efforts from his group.

The ball is in his court and he'll be judged accordingly at the end of the year. What's the bet that he doesn't start a game with a loose man in defence for the rest of the year ?

I've asked you before why you reckon that Bailey is a really good coach. All I got was tumbleweeds.

[rpfc 28,052]

have you seen your proctologist lately? Might be a good idea

Don't know where your head is at, DC...

I was saying I get a 'happy' feeling rather than shivers when I think of our midfield in a few years time.

Edited June 6, 2011 by rpfc