MFC Training at Casey Fields (Friday)

[Heart Beats True 1,236]

I went to training with my father who has never been sold on Jack Watts. What was apparent was that although he didn't look as though he tried all that hard, what he does do is done with a lot of ease and precision. He moves quickly, handballs and kicks extremely well and is very vocal.

What Jack showed at training yesterday, especially in the leading and other forward drills, was that he seemed at ease and ran at his own pace while still executing drills at a high level. This doesn't concern me at all. I can understand why people perceive him to be not interested however, a little like Liam Jurrah, they operate at a different pace.

WJ, in regards to Nicholson, he is only small in height however moves very well. He had a penetrating left foot which hit leading players hard and the resultant noise was very noticeable. At one stage Bate seemed to cop one in the head as it went straight through his arms. He seemed agile and was a standout in the handball game where teams handballed through goals without being tagged by opposition players. He was very quiet which is understandable. He looked promising.

A couple of players who didn't really impress me were:

- Jetta: his kicking was off and missed some very easy goals. At one stage he just made the distance from 30m out much to the amusement of Ricky Pettard.

- Spencer: he looked huge but still unco.

- Bate: still the same old Bate. He is one player I really hope steps up however he needs to find another string to his bow.

It was interesting to see Tom Mc having shots at goal with the forward group. Maybe this is a new role for him.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Heart Beats True

[alpha33 322]

it was interesting to see Tom Mc having shots at goal with the forward group. Maybe this is a new role for him.

During the VFL finals he was thrown forward a couple of times and kicked goals. In fact I think he mightnhave been playing up forward in one of the finals when he injured his ankle.

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

How much work does Watts do with someone like Frawley on his tail. Because if he's going half pace and still executing with Frawley on his back then I really couldn't care! I think the FD will slowly try to ramp up his intensity, but he's got a long career ahead of him and this is his first full preseason. It's good to know he's going out there and looking very clean with his training even if its not at the 110% that is required. Jurrah doesn't seem to cop much heat for not training the house down because we all cut him break. Yet as soon as Wattts doesn't look like he's training at full intensity he gets a wrap.

[jayceebee31 761]

Some very glowing reports from people in amateur circles. Of course, it's a long time since a player like John Hendrie took the step up from the VAFA and seamlessly fitted into the Hawthorn team and times have changed immensely since then. However, my contacts know their footy and reckon that if he accepts the higher pressure training regimen and the workload associated with it then he might surprise everyone and step up very quickly.

At the other end of the scale I'm interested in Campbell's rehabilitation from a player whose knees were shot to overcoming the injury and the infection incurred as a result. I'm interested in how he has basically reinvented himself and what role he might possibly play in the club's ruck set up.

A better player than Hendrie has since played AFL from the amateurs and became a extremely good footballer & leader,James McDonald.An ex president of Uni blues and a Uni blues player told me this morning he will,Dan Nicholson, make it--

Edited December 11, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Matt Demon 1,472]

How much work does Watts do with someone like Frawley on his tail. Because if he's going half pace and still executing with Frawley on his back then I really couldn't care! I think the FD will slowly try to ramp up his intensity, but he's got a long career ahead of him and this is his first full preseason. It's good to know he's going out there and looking very clean with his training even if its not at the 110% that is required. Jurrah doesn't seem to cop much heat for not training the house down because we all cut him break. Yet as soon as Wattts doesn't look like he's training at full intensity he gets a wrap.

Thats because Jurrah kicks bags of goals and wins games off his own boot.

[Guest Baghdad Bob]

I think it's not only fair to use laconic in that sense, but that it's generally accepted.

Well I thought it was being used to say Jack was a quiet lad of few words.

Silly me!!

[jayceebee31 761]

As DD DDC mentioned, Neita has personally spoken to Watts about his "first few steps" and his "last few steps".

More specifically, that he needs to "break" hard to get distance on his man, and then he needs to really attack the ball when he gets to it (in the air or in the ground).

He still manages to get by without going that hard because he reads it well and is so fast.

Imagine how good he'll be when he attacks it ferociously...

He,JW, got hammered in his first minute of play by the Collingwood players which may indeed made him slightly timid until he bulks up and this may give him confidence.Watching a reply on him during the week and Gerard Healey wants him to play in the mid field for some time in 2011 re for his development-I found that very interesting.

[H_T 3,049]

Well I thought it was being used to say Jack was a quiet lad of few words.

So did I.

[Deeman 1,497]

A better player than Hendrie has since played AFL from the amateurs and became a extremely good footballer & leader,James McDonald.An ex president of Uni blues and a Uni blues player told me this morning he will,Dan Nicholson, make it--

I thank you for editing that post because now it sort of makes sense.

[btdemon 482]

I may as well have my two cents worth on Watts as Ive seen a bit of him this pre season. His skills and his poise are second to none and he looks great on the training track but when it comes to the real stuff I think what he's lacking Is the aggression and the ability to get himself into the contest at the right times. I'm not concerned about him getting muscled out of position or pushed off the ball as hes still a light weight for his size. He just needs to have a bit more of the 'see ball get ball' attitude. Anyway I'm sure It will come to him and I think It will be more fair on the kid that we reserve judgement at least till the end of next season.

I think this is a really important point in regard to Watts. I have tremendous regard for his talent, his sublime skills, and expect him to be a very good player. However, I am concerned with the amount of time he spends standing around a pack waiting for the ball to come out. He does seem to avoid heavy contact and doesn't attack the ball on the ground or in the air. He relies on his fantastic hand skills and brilliant reading of the play.

Agression towards the ball is a natural attribute in some players. Scully and Jones, are a couple of prime examples of terriers who don't appear to fear for their physical safety. I suspect they have been playing like this since they were in early primary school. What Riv describes as "see ball, get ball". Interestingly they don't seem to get hurt that much either.

Others players need to gain confidence and overcome fear. For some it is quite a conscious process. The decision to go hard to a contest is like jumping off a cliff. They have to gain the confidence they are not going to get killed by doing it time and time again.

As a young boy playing footy I rarely got a touch. I was reasonably strong and fast. Coaches would say "You've got to go in hard to get the ball". I would think to myself, "I am going in hard". But the fact was, I wasn't. I thought I was, but I wasn't. Hence, my perception of the situation was skewed by my natural fear of physical contact. It wasn't until much later that I realised this. Way too late to be even a half-decent footballer.

My concern is that Watts may well be thinking that he is going in hard when he isn't. Hopefully there are people working with him on this. Neita's advice about the first and last few steps is spot on. Watts needs to explode towards and away from other players using that short-burst pace that we know he possesses.

He also seems to be a naturally nice guy with very little mongrel who has no desire to hurt other players. This may also be working against him being more physical. I don't expect he will ever be the "Dermie" type. There are many champions who didn't go about hurting people, but were very skilled and effective. I have great hopes for Watts but I think it will take time.

[e25 5]

He,JW, got hammered in his first minute of play by the Collingwood players which may indeed made him slightly timid until he bulks up and this may give him confidence.Watching a reply on him during the week and Gerard Healey wants him to play in the mid field for some time in 2011 re for his development-I found that very interesting.

I suggest you watch that replay of the collingwood match again.

3 pies tried to hammer him, but Watts was actually largely unscathed.

It was a comical attempt on their behalf, really.

I'd be happy to see Watts in the middle in 2011 and I expect that we will.

[demon destruction 81]

Exactly! As opposed to TJ who looked lazy, and was.

I was there and i was actually pleased with the size Watts is starting to put on, i think you can compare him now to how Cook looks in size and you can see how much he has started to fill out since his first pre season. i think you will start to see more contested marks from him in the new season.

On a side topic i went to the party last night and both practice matches at Casey before the start of 2010 season against the eagles and bulldogs and found now on all 3 occasions the lack of merchandise they had for sale.

at the practice matches i forgot my hat and went to our merchandise stall to buy a new one 20 minutes before the game had started and they had sold out. Last night got there at 4.30 and they had sold out of flags. i look at these as a great opportunity for the club to sell merchandise so i would of thought they would make sure they have plenty of stock on hand. Excess stock can always be taken back to the demon store at the mcg.

Other than that great event last night having free snags and showbags went down a treat, especially my little fella loved the new matchbox car in the showbag!

[Bhima 0]

Thanks to all those people who put in a report from Casey, interesting to get a number of different views on training and looking forward to reading more throughout the Summer. Would have loved to see Scully dominating those running drills. He is absolutely flying atm.

Cheers

[timD 994]

I was there and i was actually pleased with the size Watts is starting to put on, i think you can compare him now to how Cook looks in size and you can see how much he has started to fill out since his first pre season. i think you will start to see more contested marks from him in the new season.

On a side topic i went to the party last night and both practice matches at Casey before the start of 2010 season against the eagles and bulldogs and found now on all 3 occasions the lack of merchandise they had for sale.

at the practice matches i forgot my hat and went to our merchandise stall to buy a new one 20 minutes before the game had started and they had sold out. Last night got there at 4.30 and they had sold out of flags. i look at these as a great opportunity for the club to sell merchandise so i would of thought they would make sure they have plenty of stock on hand. Excess stock can always be taken back to the demon store at the mcg.

Other than that great event last night having free snags and showbags went down a treat, especially my little fella loved the new matchbox car in the showbag!

You are bang on the money, dee destructrion. I went there last night with my two boys and would have bought merchadice had it been (a) easiuer to actually look at and (B) there had been any stock of stuff for kids. It strikes me as the perfect opportunity to ahve kids get a jumper and then get players to sign it. Probably worth letting the club know.

[Demonland 72,225]

It never stops.

Earlier today from Nathan Jones' Twitter:

Early morning weights and massage! Feeling a bit tired after a good week on the track!

And from Ricky Petterd's Twitter:

Solid weights sesh done, now off to the races with chip, riv and mad dog maric!

And from the melbournefcblog:-

Be sure 2 check out @cstanaway story on Ch9 news tonight about Jack Watts & his work tackling cyber bullying in schools in the Casey region

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I rate your judgment about as highly as your use of the word "laconic".

Nasher, from what I have seen of what Watts live at games and at training he has looked lazy. Yes, he does have Brent Girgic / Travis Johnstone lackadaisical way of moving but there have been many times when he just hasn't worked hard enough.

Lucky it is only December.

Have you got any idea what laconic means??

Edit: Sorry CB, just saw your comment. Where is Freddy64 when you need him.....

I used to make the same mistake myself. The dictionary definition is "using or marked by the use of few words; terse or concise," but some of us mistakenly used the word as a synonym for "lazy" or "laid back". Others have used it to suggest a player might be frightened to get too involved in the action. I think that stems from some of the old time footy commentators using the word in the context of someone being silent or a quiet player. Jack Dyer was one of those commentators and I for one miss blokes of his ilk even if they butchered the language at times.

As far as Jack Watts is concerned, if he appears lazy or, if you like "laconic", I don't believe that adequately reflects him as a footballer. I would agree if someone said that he might lack confidence in his ability but that and laziness or fear for that matter, are entirely different things. I recently watched a replay on iQ of the North game in round 22 and some of things he did were quite effortless and amazing for someone 196 cm tall. At other times however, he looked unsure of himself. I think we have little worry about in this regard. He'll get all the confidence he needs as his body grows and he matures with experience. The same can be said of Liam Jurrah (and in time also the newly recruited tall forwards). I think they will also get a boost with the presence of an extra seasoned big man in the line up.

Clint and Bob, i apologise for my mis-use of the word laconic, and indeed had been suckered in to using it in the same way commentators have mis-used it in the past. I meant lackadaisical... as i believe Whispering Jack realised.

I agree with everything you said Whispering.

And in referernce to your previous post Clint, we must have been watching different games of MFC this year. If you actually watched Watts closely you will see that he leads, leads, leads and leads some more. He doesn't always lead to the right places (something he will learn) and sometimes his team-mates mis him through poor skill errors or being under too much pressure (something they will improve), but rest assured Watts works hard. I agree he doesn't smash packs and may come across as 'timid' at times but this has nothing to do with work rate.

Some people on this forum expect him to be dominating already and kicking bags of goals. He simply hasn't yet got a body that is mature enough to allow him to do that. As i have said repeatedly, give the kid time to develop FFS. At least another 18 months......

And for those that say "well LJ has torn games apart himself"- he is also 3 years older and has had time to grow into his body. I believe that when Watts is 21-22 he too will start to rip games apart....but until then just relax a fraction!!!!

My concern is that Watts may well be thinking that he is going in hard when he isn't. Hopefully there are people working with him on this. Neita's advice about the first and last few steps is spot on. Watts needs to explode towards and away from other players using that short-burst pace that we know he possesses.

He also seems to be a naturally nice guy with very little mongrel who has no desire to hurt other players. This may also be working against him being more physical. I don't expect he will ever be the "Dermie" type. There are many champions who didn't go about hurting people, but were very skilled and effective. I have great hopes for Watts but I think it will take time.

Brad Green was very much like this when he first got to Melbourne. Given time to develop and mature he is one of the hardest and most fearless blokes in the team now. Watts will become the player we all hoped for, just give him time...

[Summer Blease 0]

Thanks to all those people who put in a report from Casey, interesting to get a number of different views on training and looking forward to reading more throughout the Summer. Would have loved to see Scully dominating those running drills. He is absolutely flying atm.

Cheers

So, I take it you are not re-locating to Cranbourne for the Summer?

Can't say I don't blame you..

Cheers guys for the reports.. will have to get down there myself one of these days.

[dee-tox 4,835]

It's not a concern for me because I have no idea of the quality of the information. Doesn't strike me as being particularly high though. And people have a tendency to see what they want to see, or turn up with pre-conceived notions about a player's behaviour, then just write that rather than really observing anything.

There are very few people who I would take the word of in the absence of seeing things with my own eyes. If I believed everything everyone on Demonland said, I'd have died of MFCSS years ago.

I was also at Casey for the first time. I agree about Watts looking lazy. He was just going through the motions in my opinion.

Don't want to come across as negative, but there was an exercise that Scott West was running where the ball handling at times was terrible for AFL footballers. Young Troy Davis it seemed failed to hit a target at any time, while Spencer fumbled and bumbled his way around. Far too many handling errors for my liking.

On the positive side. I was amazed at Scully's pace in the 220 sprints.

Addam Maric is looking like an AFL footballer.

Strauss was working well in the one-on-one spoiling exercises.

Jamar was working brilliantly and young Cook looks to have pretty decent hands.

[sylvinator 96]

I am not worried about Watts.

I do, however, think he's the type of footballer who will take 3-5 years to realise what it takes to become an elite footballer. Very much similar to Colin Sylvia. Like Sylvia, Watts has a huge amount of natural talent, and from afar it seems a little like he thinks he can just rely on his natural talent. I've also heard from several sources that Watts loves partying a lot, very simlar to Sylvia in the early days. We all know how long it took before Sylvia realised he really had to nuckle down if he was to become a star. The positive however, is that Sylvia had some horrendous injuries early in his career, which delayed his breakout season, while Watts has not had the same injuries to contend with, touch wood.

I think everyone should just accept that not every footballer is going to be Tom Scully, who has been doing push ups since he was a fetus and doesn't drink alcohol such is his drive.

Hopefully, Watts will start 2012, ready to break out, with 40 games under his belt. If it takes him until the end of 2012 to realise what it takes, he'll have 60 games under his belt and be ready to explode.

Watts is still 19 years old, has time on his side, improved dramatically in the second half of the year and will keep improving with every game he plays. He has deficiencies, but he'll work on them over the years and KPP take time. Watts' upside is enourmous, his natural talent is undoubted, and he is one of only 3-4 footballers on our list who have the potential to one day be a top 5 in the afl level player.

[jayceebee31 761]

I am not worried about Watts.

I do, however, think he's the type of footballer who will take 3-5 years to realise what it takes to become an elite footballer. Very much similar to Colin Sylvia. Like Sylvia, Watts has a huge amount of natural talent, and from afar it seems a little like he thinks he can just rely on his natural talent. I've also heard from several sources that Watts loves partying a lot, very simlar to Sylvia in the early days. We all now how long it took before Sylvia realised he really had to nuckle down if he was to become a star. The positive however, is that Sylvia had some horrendous injuries early in his career, which delayed his breakout season, while Watts has not had the same injuries to contend with, touch wood.

I think everyone should just accept that not every footballer is going to be Tom Scully, who has been doing push ups since he was a fetus and doesn't drink alcohol such is his drive.

Hopefully, Watts will start 2012, ready to break out, with 40 games under his belt. If it takes him until the end of 2012 to realise what it takes, he'll have 60 games under his belt and be ready to explode.

Watts is still 19 years old, has time on his side, improved dramatically in the second half of the year and will keep improving with every game he plays. He has deficiencies, but he'll work on them over the years and KPP take time. Watts' upside is enourmous, his natural talent is undoubted, and he is one of only 3-4 footballers on our list who have the potential to one day be a top 5 in the afl level player.

Good and relevant points you make with JW. However his development has been bright.Maybe we all expect far to much from him early,look at the way we judged The Russian for years on end.I can see him becoming a great ruck rover if we needed him in that position. He will become truly a great versatile footballer for us over time.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I am not worried about Watts.

I do, however, think he's the type of footballer who will take 3-5 years to realise what it takes to become an elite footballer. Very much similar to Colin Sylvia. Like Sylvia, Watts has a huge amount of natural talent, and from afar it seems a little like he thinks he can just rely on his natural talent. I've also heard from several sources that Watts loves partying a lot, very simlar to Sylvia in the early days. We all now how long it took before Sylvia realised he really had to nuckle down if he was to become a star. The positive however, is that Sylvia had some horrendous injuries early in his career, which delayed his breakout season, while Watts has not had the same injuries to contend with, touch wood.

I think everyone should just accept that not every footballer is going to be Tom Scully, who has been doing push ups since he was a fetus and doesn't drink alcohol such is his drive.

Hopefully, Watts will start 2012, ready to break out, with 40 games under his belt. If it takes him until the end of 2012 to realise what it takes, he'll have 60 games under his belt and be ready to explode.

Watts is still 19 years old, has time on his side, improved dramatically in the second half of the year and will keep improving with every game he plays. He has deficiencies, but he'll work on them over the years and KPP take time. Watts' upside is enourmous, his natural talent is undoubted, and he is one of only 3-4 footballers on our list who have the potential to one day be a top 5 in the afl level player.

Very well put Sylvinator, with the last line very pertinent. He will obviously take time and maybe one or two good kicks up the backside by his teammates but he will get there. (Sylvia is a good example, so too is Jobe Watson). As you said and i think a fact some people need to realise is that by the end of next year he will only be 20 and have 40 games under his belt. He will take time....

When you take a look at the stats on the young (23 or under) KPF's of each club as at end of 2010 who have played at least 10 games then i makes interesting reading:

Name- Age / Games

Adel-

Tippett- 23 years old 65 games

Walker- 20 / 32

Bris- no young KPF's

Carl-

Henderson- 21 / 34

Coll-

Cloke- 23 / 124

Dawes- 22 / 30

Ess-

Gumbleton- 22 / 22

Hurley- 20 / 29

Freo-

Anthony- 22 / 43

Cats-

Hawkins- 22 / 61

Hawks-

Franklin- 23 / 120

Roughead- 23 / 125

MELBOURNE-

Jurrah- 22 / 17

Watts- 19 / 18

Kangas-

Hansen- 22 / 50

McKinley- 23 / 46

Tigers-

Riewoldt- 22 / 68

Swans-

White- 22 / 40

WCE-

Kennedy- 23 / 67

Dogs-

Grant- 21 / 21

I think it shows that the earliest any of these blokes actually started to mature and show a bit was around 20-21, some not even until 22-23. Watts is by far the youngest and also the only teenager. Just looking at the list, we would be lucky for him to mature by the time he turns 21, but he probably won't start taking games apart until maybe 22 plus.

Surely the message here is to be patient and let the kid grow and develop and just hope he gets the full pre-season and most if not all games in. (Unfortunately i think there are still the Watts-bashers who are blinded by their own ridiculous expectations who will continue to whinge and moan for the next couple of years).

[Matt Demon 1,472]

Very few people on here are bashing him. There's nothing wrong with discussing the development of a player and pointing out what it is he lacks and needs to improve on. Unfortunately for Jack his was taken at pick 1 and this will continue for a while. Most of the posts about him go along the lines of he's very good at these things BUT needs to improve this.. I don't see anything wrong with It.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Very few people on here are bashing him. There's nothing wrong with discussing the development of a player and pointing out what it is he lacks and needs to improve on. Unfortunately for Jack his was taken at pick 1 and this will continue for a while. Most of the posts about him go along the lines of he's very good at these things BUT needs to improve this.. I don't see anything wrong with It.

Yeas i agree J-Riv that there is nothing wrong with discussing areas he needs to work at or further develop. I along with many others do. And like Sylvia and Watson, i believe it will take time for him to realise where he needs to get to to make the most of his natural ability. However, as i'm sure you will agree, there are those who have unrealistic expectations of him at this stage in his development and make ridiculous posts (such as the whipping boy thread in which his name has come up).

LJ exhibits many of the traits that JW is criticised for yet he is not hammered the way Watts is. LJ is 3 years older. Don't hammer me, i love LJ to death however i am merely highlighting that perhaps there is a thing as focusing too much on Watts' apparent flaws and not enough on what he does well. We all want to see the best Jack Watts possible, my point is that it is just a matter of understanding that it will take another year or two and some frustration in between.

The list of players presented was merely to highlight how young and inexperienced he is in relation to the other KPF's currently playing in the AFL. And that there will be some time to go yet before we see his best on a consistent level.

[btdemon 482]

Clint and Bob, i apologise for my mis-use of the word laconic, and indeed had been suckered in to using it in the same way commentators have mis-used it in the past. I meant lackadaisical... as i believe Whispering Jack realised.

I agree with everything you said Whispering.

And in referernce to your previous post Clint, we must have been watching different games of MFC this year. If you actually watched Watts closely you will see that he leads, leads, leads and leads some more. He doesn't always lead to the right places (something he will learn) and sometimes his team-mates mis him through poor skill errors or being under too much pressure (something they will improve), but rest assured Watts works hard. I agree he doesn't smash packs and may come across as 'timid' at times but this has nothing to do with work rate.

Some people on this forum expect him to be dominating already and kicking bags of goals. He simply hasn't yet got a body that is mature enough to allow him to do that. As i have said repeatedly, give the kid time to develop FFS. At least another 18 months......

And for those that say "well LJ has torn games apart himself"- he is also 3 years older and has had time to grow into his body. I believe that when Watts is 21-22 he too will start to rip games apart....but until then just relax a fraction!!!!

Brad Green was very much like this when he first got to Melbourne. Given time to develop and mature he is one of the hardest and most fearless blokes in the team now. Watts will become the player we all hoped for, just give him time...

If you remember three or four years ago on this forum people constantly labeled Green as "soft" and even wanted trade him. Now he is often "suicidal" in his approach to a marking contest and we gasp at his brave and selfless acts. This must have taken enormous mental courage in his part to make this transition. These things happen to people at different times in their lives or careers. Hopefully JW will get there. What is interesting about all this is that we are asking very young people to take risks and do things that very few of us would be prepared to do.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,200]

I have heard stated before that Sylvia spent his junior days with his coaches telling team mates to kick the ball to him at all costs. Due to this Sylvia had to learn at AFL level how to hunt the football and hunger for the contest. I get the impression that in some ways the same applies to Jack. I expect a bit more consistency from Jack next season with some more moments of realising his talent but probably just as many steps back. I dont expect he will be in the team on merit at all occasions and would not be suprised to see him returned to Casey at times to work on components. This does not mean he is not progressing in his development but moreso similar to Jack Riewoldts development this may be required to make him the best player he can be not now but in years to come.