Deano's break out year

[Harrisonrules 273]

A break out year has often been used in reference to young developing players on our list. I want to present it as appropriate for Dean Bailey's role as senior coach. Personally I don't believe we have seen anything overly spectacular in his work so far. For this past year I would give him a 6 out of 10 (remember a 4 means the sack). He has been relatively comfortable overseeing a small group of inexperienced coaches, Mahoney, Wellman, West. He's had a backup shadow with Chris Connolly in the wings. Overall experience has been light on. This year we have added Tod and now Brian Royal. The team is starting to look as though it has far greater substance, depth and breadth. This group could become formidable. However, it requires a significant leader to oversee and manage the group. Dean has the kind of personality that I like in a leader of a group, not someone who is going to dominate and drag everyone else along but someone who can bring the best out of every contributor. Previously the coaching team was light weight compared with other teams, now it is a group with substance. If Dean's own style of man management talents rise to the occassion of developing this group it could very well be his break out year.

[The Big Ticket 94]

Paragraphs.

Agree with everything you've said here. After the coming drafts, he'll finally have the cattle to start winning consistently.

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

I hope so, he now has some cracking assistants to back him up and some great playing talent. I've been around for a long time and seen many dreams crash but this administration and playing group keeps the dream alive.

[H_T 2,941]

I hope so, he now has some cracking assistants to back him up and some great playing talent. I've been around for a long time and seen many dreams crash but this administration and playing group keeps the dream alive.

Where to with the contract situation ? 2011 is currently the last year of contract (which was the one year extension). Does the club wait until towards the end of the 2011 season, or at the half way point (Rd 11-12) to have Bailey sign on again.

He'd be happy with the Fixture for 2011. Will have to make the most of it.

Is it fair to assess DB, having turned the list over and over, and over and now that the list is now young and strong - is it fair to assess him on 2011 ?

Keeping in tune with this thread, what if it's not his break out year ?

[Sir Why You Little 34,444]

Where to with the contract situation ? 2011 is currently the last year of contract (which was the one year extension). Does the club wait until towards the end of the 2011 season, or at the half way point (Rd 11-12) to have Bailey sign on again.

He'd be happy with the Fixture for 2011. Will have to make the most of it.

Is it fair to assess DB, having turned the list over and over, and over and now that the list is now young and strong - is it fair to assess him on 2011 ?

Keeping in tune with this thread, what if it's not his break out year ?

It's a tough one isn't it. First thing DB must sort out in games is the slow starts. If that can be done we may be sitting rather well by QB. But if we lose early games even closely, it will hurt the club.

We need to start to believe that a close loss is not good enough, for all the work it equals 0 points.

I think the board will be quietly assessing DB on a weekly basis, as we all will be.

I reckon he can coach at the top level. Many a person would have cracked coaching the Demons over the last 3 years-it would not have been easy, particularly that first year.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

A break out year has often been used in reference to young developing players on our list. I want to present it as appropriate for Dean Bailey's role as senior coach. Personally I don't believe we have seen anything overly spectacular in his work so far. For this past year I would give him a 6 out of 10 (remember a 4 means the sack). He has been relatively comfortable overseeing a small group of inexperienced coaches, Mahoney, Wellman, West. He's had a backup shadow with Chris Connolly in the wings. Overall experience has been light on. This year we have added Tod and now Brian Royal. The team is starting to look as though it has far greater substance, depth and breadth. This group could become formidable. However, it requires a significant leader to oversee and manage the group. Dean has the kind of personality that I like in a leader of a group, not someone who is going to dominate and drag everyone else along but someone who can bring the best out of every contributor. Previously the coaching team was light weight compared with other teams, now it is a group with substance. If Dean's own style of man management talents rise to the occassion of developing this group it could very well be his break out year.

As a supporter in the crowd how could you possilby make any informed assessment of the individual members of the coaching group and what Bailey is doing his management style? You have yet to demonstrate that here. A bad case of misperception working overtime to cover a chronic lack of facts.

The addition of Viney and Royal does from the outside provide greater experience. However, I dont think Connolly lacks experience and given Wellman and West's AFL records, its naive to call them inexperienced. Mark Williams is also on the coaching panel and I dont think he is inexperienced in the role he plays.

And given the young side Bailey has and the blooding process he is undertaking I would have thought 6 out of 10 would have been a very good result.

Any "break out" year Bailey is going to have is going to be largely dependent on the players he has ready to break out themselves. Some of the talent is still less then 3 years oof experience and he still has to blood players like Tapscott, Blease, Fitz, Gawn etc.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

As a supporter in the crowd how could you possilby make any informed assessment of the individual members of the coaching group and what Bailey is doing his management style? You have yet to demonstrate that here. A bad case of misperception working overtime to cover a chronic lack of facts.

The addition of Viney and Royal does from the outside provide greater experience. However, I dont think Connolly lacks experience and given Wellman and West's AFL records, its naive to call them inexperienced. Mark Williams is also on the coaching panel and I dont think he is inexperienced in the role he plays.

And given the young side Bailey has and the blooding process he is undertaking I would have thought 6 out of 10 would have been a very good result.

Any "break out" year Bailey is going to have is going to be largely dependent on the players he has ready to break out themselves. Some of the talent is still less then 3 years oof experience and he still has to blood players like Tapscott, Blease, Fitz, Gawn etc.

Opinions are something akin to a certain part of the anatomy in the nether regions. That is, everyone has one. An opinion is neither right nor wrong, but just that..........an opinion.

The opinion expressed above is, to my way of thinking, well reasoned and one to which I subscribe personally. However, if you can't express an opinion on what is a bloody web based forum afterall, made by supporters of the footy club, without getting a metaphorical kick in the head, then where the bloody hell can you?

RR, I suggest you should give consideration to moderating your own posts and tone. Your constant editorialising is in no way edifying.

Edited November 4, 2010 by iv'a worn smith

[Chook 14,475]

RR, I suggest you should give consideration to moderating your own posts and tone. Your constant editorialising is in no way edifying.

That's for sure. One might even say he has a "chronic" lack of tact.

[old55 21,303]

The opinion expressed above is, to my way of thinking, well reasoned and one to which I subscribe personally.

Yes but it doesn't have any reference point - how about a comparison with the experience of the reigning Premier's coaching staff:

Malthouse, Neeld, Buckley, Watters, Hudghton, Gavin Brown (replaced)

Aside from Malthouse's massive experience is there a big difference between their assistants and ours?

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Yes but it doesn't have any reference point - how about a comparison with the experience of the reigning Premier's coaching staff:

Malthouse, Neeld, Buckley, Watters, Hudghton, Gavin Brown (replaced)

Aside from Malthouse's massive experience is there a big difference between their assistants and ours?

I don't think HR was suggesting a flag in 2011, but what he termed a "breakout year". The assessment of that can only be relative to the very low base from where we have come. Comparisons can be odious, but at the end of the 2011 season, the judgment as to whether DB has had a "break out year" can only be a matter of "opinion". I would measure that judgment against his previous performances, not against a coach from a club that had a great deal more resources than we have had and a club that could be a lot more free with its cash than we could. Horses for courses really.

Edited November 5, 2010 by iv'a worn smith

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

Where to with the contract situation ? 2011 is currently the last year of contract (which was the one year extension). Does the club wait until towards the end of the 2011 season, or at the half way point (Rd 11-12) to have Bailey sign on again.

He'd be happy with the Fixture for 2011. Will have to make the most of it.

Is it fair to assess DB, having turned the list over and over, and over and now that the list is now young and strong - is it fair to assess him on 2011 ?

Keeping in tune with this thread, what if it's not his break out year ?

Everything seems to be in Baileys favour at the moment, but if things go wrong and the team hasn't lived up to expectations by midseason 2011 the current goodwill will likely collapse and could lead to extreme negativity against him. Might be an Obama/Knights moment. I'm sure he knows this and feels the pressure. Acting hardball on recently departed players and I suspect with cam too leads me think he is not letting anything stand in his way to achieving success and wont die wondering.

I remain optomistic in the administration, the coaches the playing list to achieve something next year. My outstanding concern is if all these changes have changed the club culture for the better. We've been used to losing for too long thus satisfied with too little.

Edited November 5, 2010 by america de cali

[old55 21,303]

I don't think HR was suggesting a flag in 2011, but what he termed a "breakout year". The assessment of that can only be relative to the very low base from where we have come. Comparisons can be odious, but at the end of the 2011 season, the judgment as to whether DB has had a "break out year" can only be a matter of "opinion". I would measure that judgment against his previous performances, not against a coach from a club that had a great deal more resources than we have had and a club that could be a lot more free with its cash than we could. Horses for courses really.

Previously the coaching team was light weight compared with other teams, now it is a group with substance. ...

FMD, I wasn't comparing the season result, I was comparing the experience of the coaching panel!

.

Edited November 5, 2010 by old55

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

FMD, I wasn't comparing the season result, I was comparing the experience of the coaching panel!

.

FMD? The rest obviously remains to be seen, Again, it will be horses for courses. Also, players in their 3rd and 4th years also need to step up as well as the coach

[Harrisonrules 273]

As a supporter in the crowd how could you possilby make any informed assessment of the individual members of the coaching group and what Bailey is doing his management style? You have yet to demonstrate that here. A bad case of misperception working overtime to cover a chronic lack of facts.

The addition of Viney and Royal does from the outside provide greater experience. However, I dont think Connolly lacks experience and given Wellman and West's AFL records, its naive to call them inexperienced. Mark Williams is also on the coaching panel and I dont think he is inexperienced in the role he plays.

And given the young side Bailey has and the blooding process he is undertaking I would have thought 6 out of 10 would have been a very good result.

Any "break out" year Bailey is going to have is going to be largely dependent on the players he has ready to break out themselves. Some of the talent is still less then 3 years oof experience and he still has to blood players like Tapscott, Blease, Fitz, Gawn etc.

When it comes to sport and football in particular there are many opinions formed out of the multifaceted dynamics of the game. There are many perspectives and a combination of them all is probably more valuable than just one or two. Sometimes one can be too close to the challenge and its good to step back, look from over the fence, even the top tier. Some form opinions from just watching TV, that's why this forum exists. Many perceptions are formed by broad communication with players, officials, friends, even opposition supporters. Its amazing who one bumps into in the work place etc etc. If you need to ridicule my perceptions enjoy doing so. In the meantime put forward some of your own for the fun and betterment of our club. Remember the game is entertainment, not real life

[H_T 2,941]

FMD?

Frickin' Mild (case of) Dementia.

[rpfc 27,452]

Frickin' Mild (case of) Dementia.

I think it's Frack Me Dead.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

When it comes to sport and football in particular there are many opinions formed out of the multifaceted dynamics of the game. There are many perspectives and a combination of them all is probably more valuable than just one or two. Sometimes one can be too close to the challenge and its good to step back, look from over the fence, even the top tier. Some form opinions from just watching TV, that's why this forum exists. Many perceptions are formed by broad communication with players, officials, friends, even opposition supporters. Its amazing who one bumps into in the work place etc etc. If you need to ridicule my perceptions enjoy doing so. In the meantime put forward some of your own for the fun and betterment of our club. Remember the game is entertainment, not real life

I merely raised a question how you can form a judgement on micro aspects of the coaching when you are not close to the action. And in about 300 words or so I garner its just on hearsay. And for your benefit, I merely gave an opinion like you did. And if you want to give an opinion without comment from others try a blog.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

I want more consistancy from week to week .

I want pressure put on the opposition every week from the start of games , not just matches they've set themselves for .

I want wins against all clubs below us and a couple of big scalps from those above .

I want us to smash North , thump the Bombers , take down the Blues and stick it up the Pies .

I just want more proof that we are definately on the way to where we want to go .

Is that too much ?

[Sir Why You Little 34,444]

I want more consistancy from week to week .

I want pressure put on the opposition every week from the start of games , not just matches they've set themselves for .

I want wins against all clubs below us and a couple of big scalps from those above .

I want us to smash North , thump the Bombers , take down the Blues and stick it up the Pies .

I just want more proof that we are definately on the way to where we want to go .

Is that too much ?

Right with you Brother Fork...if we get more consistency the rest should follow.

[old55 21,303]

When it comes to sport and football in particular there are many opinions formed out of the multifaceted dynamics of the game. There are many perspectives and a combination of them all is probably more valuable than just one or two. Sometimes one can be too close to the challenge and its good to step back, look from over the fence, even the top tier. Some form opinions from just watching TV, that's why this forum exists. Many perceptions are formed by broad communication with players, officials, friends, even opposition supporters. Its amazing who one bumps into in the work place etc etc. If you need to ridicule my perceptions enjoy doing so. In the meantime put forward some of your own for the fun and betterment of our club. Remember the game is entertainment, not real life

Yeah, yeah ...

But what supporting evidence do you have for this direct statement:

Previously the coaching team was light weight compared with other teams

I given you the pertinent Collingwood example which doesn't seem to support your "opinion"

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

Right with you Brother Fork...if we get more consistency the rest should follow.

I like these sentiments.

And I think scrutiny will be applied to Bailey if we don't get at least six wins by the end of round eleven next year. Five will show that we have barely improved and seven will show we are a genuine candidate to make the finals.

Edited November 5, 2010 by america de cali

[rpfc 27,452]

I like these sentiments.

And I think scrutiny will be applied to Bailey if we don't get at least six wins by the end of round eleven next year. Five will show that we have barely improved and seven will show we are a genuine candidate to make the finals.

I know it is easy to draw up some hard and fast line for Bailey next year but...

If you are talking about the court of public opinion then, yes, people will not be happy losing games we should win.

However, if it is the FD/Schwab then they have to take into account other factors like injuries, 'footy sucks, sometimes' games, etc.

If we are playing well in most games and continue to be competitive, and continue to blood our talent I can put up with a less than stellar 2011. I don't care about finishing 6th and bombing out in the first round, I want to win a flag.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

I know it is easy to draw up some hard and fast line for Bailey next year but...

If you are talking about the court of public opinion then, yes, people will not be happy losing games we should win.

However, if it is the FD/Schwab then they have to take into account other factors like injuries, 'footy sucks, sometimes' games, etc.

If we are playing well in most games and continue to be competitive, and continue to blood our talent I can put up with a less than stellar 2011. I don't care about finishing 6th and bombing out in the first round, I want to win a flag.

I want them to show they're hungry for success every single game.

I want them to show us they're as hungry as we are .

If that leads us to 6th great , if it means 9th ... too bad .

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

At the least if Bailey can keep the team within a decent sniff of a finals position for most of the season and fade away in rounds 20-22 it will keep the dogs at bay. Improvement will have been noted. If we come to rounds 16-17 with Buckley's or a slim mathematical chance of making the finals there might be trouble for him. IMO real improvement will show itself if we can pinch a game or two from top sides, repudiate playing like millionaires against peer group and lesser opposition and take a couple from interstate. And a little luck on our side too.

Edited November 5, 2010 by america de cali