Does Bailey Have Any Idea or just NFI?

[demons27 1]

What was Melbourne thinking to offer Bailey another year on his coaching contract.

His performances to date have been very uninspiring....

the players are also showing signs of not understanding his game plan (whatever it is).

Many say we are in a rebuilding stage and need to be patient, but there is something missing at a club when they continually put in

such insipid performances.. Do you see players competing at contests and showing passion and support for each other? If someone is felled unfairly do we show numbers and physical presence? Have we now developed a losing culture which is undermining any efforts to right the sinking ship. This could easily become a long period of darkness if drastic action is not taken soon.

I say let's bail on Bailey and get a coach with some real drive, passion, tactical prowess and respect from the football community. Would we be doing better under Michael Voss, Rodney Eade, or even Mick Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy?

[Bonkers 994]

What was Melbourne thinking to offer Bailey another year on his coaching contract.

His performances to date have been very uninspiring....

the players are also showing signs of not understanding his game plan (whatever it is).

Many say we are in a rebuilding stage and need to be patient, but there is something missing at a club when they continually put in

such insipid performances.. Do you see players competing at contests and showing passion and support for each other? If someone is felled unfairly do we show numbers and physical presence? Have we now developed a losing culture which is undermining any efforts to right the sinking ship. This could easily become a long period of darkness if drastic action is not taken soon.

I say let's bail on Bailey and get a coach with some real drive, passion, tactical prowess and respect from the football community. Would we be doing better under Michael Voss, Rodney Eade, or even Mick Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy?

DO you think the club has a spare 700k floating around somewhere?

[Eth 4]

Any of us could coach better than Bailey. He's got the young players, but he doesn't know [censored] about developing them into A-graders.

[e25 5]

And the award for "most ill-considered and ignorant thread" goes to... This one!

Congrats. You win tickets to sit in the audience for Judge Judy.

[Eth 4]

And the award for "most ill-considered and ignorant thread" goes to... This one!

Congrats. You win tickets to sit in the audience for Judge Judy.

This thread is just opinion based. So demons27 and I want Bailey out. It doesn't mean we're ignorant. I just don't think Dean Bailey really has it in him to take us to a premiership.

[Summer Blease 0]

Any of us could coach better than Bailey. He's got the young players, but he doesn't know [censored] about developing them into A-graders.

Agree. He should have them up to A grade standard by now.. I mean, I can't understand why Scully, Trengove, Tapscott, Gawn, Watts, Blease, Gizzy etc etc arn't tearing games apart, wracking up brownlow votes and have their own cologns out yet- It boggles the mind!

Also you are correct- Any of us could coach better than Bailey.. I've played FIFA 09 Manager mode (seeing as there is no AFL equivalent) many a time, and it's an easy gig....

Back to reality however, the answers will lie over the coarse of the next few months. If Bailey tries to change stuff up re positions and tactics and we become more competitive Bailey deserves a chance, If he changes nothing and results remain he goes. Quite simple really.

Lets give Bails the benefit of the doubt for now. Lets presume he speed up our developement over the previous two years by declaring them write-offs in exchange for high draft pics. Lets presume we were outplayed round 1 by a stronger, more mature, hungrier (it boggles the mind as to WHY we aren't hungry) team. BUT if onfield changes don't occur, then we can honestly say bye bye Bails!!

I'm just sick of seeing lack of desire. Unwillingness to put in 100% every week. Things apearing stagnant... it's almost like we need a big spirit bomb of sorts rocketed up the ass of the MFC. I'm saddened that the only good games I get to watch involve teams that I do not love. It is starting to grow tiresome. Long, but revealing year ahead. Long live the MFC

[e25 5]

With comments like these...

Any of us could coach better than Bailey. He's got the young players, but he doesn't know [censored] about developing them into A-graders.

you have proven my point.

How dare Bailey have not converted draft picks into A grade footballer after 14 whole games!

What a disgrace!!

Some people somehow expect things to have changed - have you forgotten that our side is still full of kids and not-up-to-it-beyond-being-a-role-player senior players?

Just like it has been the last 2 years.

What do you expect to have magically changed over the course of a preseason??!?

People talk about Richmond supporters having short memories and little patience...

Do you even remember Hawthorn looking like a rabble 5 years ago until they managed to get a few seasons into all of their stars?

They were even lucky to have a star number 1 pick entering his prime to guide the kids through - we do not have that luxury

(...Sylvia may become close to that for us)

it's all about time, patience and REALISTIC achievable expectations.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Enforcer25

[Range Rover 1,935]

Back to reality however, the answers will lie over the coarse of the next few months. If Bailey tries to change stuff up re positions and tactics and we become more competitive Bailey deserves a chance, If he changes nothing and results remain he goes. Quite simple really.

Not quite as simple as that given his hastily awarded contract extension.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

With comments like these...

you have proven my point.

How dare Bailey have not converted draft picks into A grade footballer after 14 whole games!

What a disgrace!!

Some people somehow expect things to have changed - have you forgotten that our side is still full of kids and not-up-to-it-beyond-being-a-role-player senior players?

Just like it has been the last 2 years.

What do you expect to have magically changed over the course of a preseason??!?

People talk about Richmond supporters having short memories and little patience...

Do you even remember Hawthorn looking like a rabble 5 years ago until they managed to get a few seasons into all of their stars?

They were even lucky to have a star number 1 pick entering his prime to guide the kids through - we do not have that luxury

(...Sylvia may become close to that for us)

it's all about time, patience and REALISTIC achievable expectations.

you make good points that i agree with, but that does not excuse the tactics and game plan yesterday.

That pattern of play will kill the spirit of even the greatest draft picks.

[Summer Blease 0]

What did we do? Award him another year after this one? What?! Ah, when did this happen and at what point in his MFC career did he earn this contract extention? At what point in the 36 losses and 8 wins clinched it for him do you think?

[Range Rover 1,935]

Yep they gave Bailey a year's contract extension a few weeks back.

Unbelievable and it pains me to say it but that decision came from the top.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Spirit of Barassi

[felixdacat 459]

Can all those who have coached at the AFL level please put your hand up.

I've said it before and I will say it again

"I don't think anyone knows what Bailey gameday tactics are, apart from him and his coaching team.

I am not going to second guess him or try to attempt to analyse it as I am in no way qualified to do so and I am guessing that there are quite a few people on these boards who are also in the same boat.

Fact is it's the first game of the year, Bailey has his extension and people should get behind the team and stop whining."

This thread is opinion based yes, but it seems also to be based on a low pressure system inside a porcelain drinking container.

First Round of 2010 after coming in last for 2008 & 2009 and we lose to the 2008 Premiers.

My question is:

Are our expectations too high?

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Can all those who have coached at the AFL level please put your hand up.

What, so since I've never played AFL nor coached it I must forever more refrain from judging players and coaches?

[e25 5]

you make good points that i agree with, but that does not excuse the tactics and game plan yesterday.

That pattern of play will kill the spirit of even the greatest draft picks.

Just like it did to Hawthorn when their tactics were failing miserably 5-6 years ago?

No one could figure out what they were trying to do & they looked insipid until their players matured and suddenly Clarkson was a visionary.

Knee jerk reactions.

I'll reserve my judgement for when we have a team capable of implementing ANY gameplan.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Can all those who have coached at the AFL level please put your hand up.

I've said it before and I will say it again

"I don't think anyone knows what Bailey gameday tactics are, apart from him and his coaching team.

I am not going to second guess him or try to attempt to analyse it as I am in no way qualified to do so and I am guessing that there are quite a few people on these boards who are also in the same boat.

Fact is it's the first game of the year, Bailey has his extension and people should get behind the team and stop whining."

This thread is opinion based yes, but it seems also to be based on a low pressure system inside a porcelain drinking container.

First Round of 2010 after coming in last for 2008 & 2009 and we lose to the 2008 Premiers.

My question is:

Are our expectations too high?

I also can't stand it when people use that kind of "if you haven't seen snow you wouldn't know how cold antartica is" rationale

for never criticizing coaches.

Here's one expectation I have: I'd like to see our players hit a target by foot from 20 metres away.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Spirit of Barassi

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Just like it did to Hawthorn when their tactics were failing miserably 5-6 years ago?

No one could figure out what they were trying to do & they looked insipid until their players matured and suddenly Clarkson was a visionary.

Knee jerk reactions.

I'll reserve my judgement for when we have a team capable of implementing ANY gameplan.

Could be waiting a while E25, and with the 2 new teams coming in i wonder how much time we have.

Were you at the game yesterday or did you view it on Foxtel?

[Oliver Hill 0]

This thread is obviously reactionary and I picked us to come 15th based upon the poor quality of our better players, but at the same time Bailey has done nothing whatsoever to prove he can coach. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Who would know ? I doubt anyone else could have shown less or have done worse.

[Range Rover 1,935]

This thread is obviously reactionary and I picked us to come 15th based upon the poor quality of our better players, but at the same time Bailey has done nothing whatsoever to prove he can coach. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Who would know ? I doubt anyone else could have shown less or have done worse.

When does criticism cease to become 'reactionary'?

When his win/loss ratio drops to 10% from it's current 15%? Can we criticize Bailey then?

[Oliver Hill 0]

When does criticism cease to become 'reactionary'?

Round 8. Although a loss to the Shitmond in round 4 would be pretty depressing.

[Lost Highway 31]

Here's one expectation I have: I'd like to see our players hit a target by foot from 20 metres away.

After watching yesterday's match, I have another proposition:

Put the Melbourne team on the field in their positions as selected, at 2pm, without any opposition. Give the ball to the full-back and instruct the team to get the ball through the goalposts (by foot!) at the other end by hand-passing and kicking alternately, with no more than 5 paces including one bounce to be taken by any player with the ball before disposing of it. Every player must have one possession. Any missed or dropped marks, fluffed kicks, out of bounds or simply the ball hitting the grass except when legitimately bounced results in the team having to start again.

What are the odds against a successful scoring of a goal between 2pm and 4.30pm?

I know this sounds like a simple training exercise, but for whom? I sincerely doubt the team on the field yesterday could do this. For a start, at least one mark or hand-ball receive would be dropped and one player at least would fall over. The last player to get the ball after a successful passage of the ball - if such were to occur - to within 15 metres of the goal at a slight angle would surely miss with his kick.

And so on.

I don't hold with those who say they could coach as well as Bailey, nor do I hold with those who think he should have been given another year before showing his worth this season.

But, after 6 months of training, having started before anyone else yet again, a fortnight after the grand final, there is NO SIGN of anything different.

Forget the 'game plan', if such a thing exists. I think the concept is pretty pretentious anyway - you've got flooding, zoning, man-on-man, run and carry and a couple of other ideas floating around, but I doubt if footballers run around during a match thinking of all this shite. What they do think about, the well drilled ones is this:

1. If you are around or near the player with the ball you support him and protect him, talk to him, fill him with the confidence that he can handpass and know a team-mate will be actually running past, towards the goals, to collect it, not standing still like a rabbit in the spotlight.

2. If you are ahead of the ball/the play, you run hard and fast to make position in a space; you make sure you do this ahead of your opponent.

3. If you have the ball, you deliver it with some penetration to the space that you have been drilled to know your team-mate will be running into.

These things would be a wondrous sight in a Melbourne team; they are commonplace in our opponents, who always look good no matter their position on the ladder.

To me, there are 5 players who look capable of doing these things:

Grimes, Trengove, Scully, Davey, Green.

Maybe Frawley. Maybe Moloney on occasion.

Some players who can't/won't/don't or whatever, and these are the most conspicuous:

Bruce, Junior, Bate, Dunn, Jones, Miller.

Competent leadership by the experienced players is missing.

After 6 months, the coach still seems to have a lot of homework to do. The side does not look as though it is 'coached'.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What is inescapable is that we are playing a terrible style of football perhaps the worst seen for many years. Yesterday it wasn't the young kids that let us down it was the senior players so to put our poor performance down to the youth of the side is somewhat misleading. We were terrible and sitting there watching that game was soul destroying it looks as if we are in for another barren year.

I don't know if Bailey can coach or not but if yesterday was a sample of his coaching and not just the failure of the players to do as instructed, we are in serious trouble. To mention Hawthorn and compare us to them when they were performing poorly is wrong, they never stopped putting in and had very few passengers, we have heaps.

[Adzman 2,154]

Bails is a cheaper alternative to many untried coaches.

Not to mention there would be very little incentive for an established coach to take on this basket case.

Sadly the verdict is out, but we need to make sure we do not establish a Richmond like coach killing culture at the club. Bails needs all home and away rounds to prove his worth. He at least deserves that!

[sylvinator 96]

I reckon Bailey has played his purpose. His purpose is PURELY to remake our list, delist the junk, and draft as many youngsters as possible.

I don't think he can take us to the next level. The fact that we aren't more competitive in game and haven't shown any clear signs of improvements is proof enough of this.

I think we should look to Malthouse as our next coach. He always seems to get the best out of his players and is a clever tactician. He has taken him WCE teams to premierships and Collingwood to several grandfinals and prelims. He's clearly a good caoch. He should target him for when Buckly takes over.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I am a big Dean Bailey fan. But...

Reality is that our game plan will never/should be published, nor predicatble. If anyone in here can tell me what our game plan is, I think our coach is failing. At the end of the day, if us punters know what the Melbourne game plan is, how easy will it be for our opposition to shut it down??? I'm happy for all of us to have no idea what our game plan is - as long as the players know it and play to it, I'm happy with that. If at this stage it is still not working, I'm more than happy to give it time.

My biggest criticism of our coach is in relation to how we kick the ball out from the back 50m, and how sides kick out from our forward 50m. When we score a behind, the oppostion too easily and too often hit a target that is 40m out, then the next kick is another 40m away, and before we know it, our half backs are brought in to action. On the flip side to that, we too often have to take 3 or 4 kicks to clear our 50m line. Of course this will result in more turnovers due to extra pressure from the actual time it takes us to look to clear it from the "danger zone". To put it in simple terms, we put ourselves under far too much pressure when kicking out, but don't put anywhere near enough pressure on the opposition whern they kick out. This is where Bail's is letting us down IMO.

Regardless of what people say, you can not blame Dean Bailey for the idiotic skill errors that our players make. Sure, he is the "boss" of our training sessions, and should work on certain areas where we need improvement, but poor execution in the wasy of missing easy targets by hand or foot has to fall back to the players so they can take some responsibility.

Another thing you can't blame Bailey for is the list he inherited. He has done a fantastic job clearing out the so-called good players from Melbourne. He was involved in the forced retirement of White, Yze, Wheatley, Robbo and Whelan, he inherited onfield leaders such as McDonald, Bruce and Green, but when you compare us to the strong clubs like Geelong, St Kilda, etc, he really has had bugger all to work with. Look at Carlton, they had Fev and Judd - 2 superstars of the comp - both head and shoulders better than those 3 I listed from us, they have had a talented group of kids come in, and they are still a long way away from GF material. I personally think we are far better placed than Carlton were at the same time in our redevlopment, therefore think we should have more success than them in the coming years. Is success going to be a flag? I bloody hope so.

Another of our biggest problems is that we have virtually no "X factor". I define X factor as someone who can find the ball and do something with it and literally change the way the game is heading. Judd obviously has it, Riewoldt has it, Hird had it, Buckley, Voss, Goodes, etc. At this stage, the only player we have that COULD be the X factor is Jurrah - Davey, Sylvia, Green, etc don't have it. Now, I am a huge fan of Jurrah too, but at the end of the day, he has played bugger all footy, and in the preseason matches, he struggled to get in to any game. Sadly, injuries have obviously blocked us from seeing if he can take the next step this year (well, a major part of it anyway). When he returns, will he be able to get in a take the game by the balls and change a result? I'm not convinced. This is only because of his lack of experience, he has the ability to do it, let's hope he can. Our better chances of X factor players will be out of Watts, Scully and Trengove. These 3 are proven X factor guys in junior footy, and I think we have more chance in seeing such a player come from those 3 than LJ, and even Morton and Grimes. That is in no way taking anything away from the players I mentioned, as I rate them all highly.

One last thing I have to say on our team - they are trying to be too safe. This, again, is not a coach related problem. Yesterday, Bennell show glimpses of some brilliant footy, this occured when he back his natural judgement and ability and took the game on. Grimes was exactly the same, as were a number of other ÿounger" players. The times that they let us down was when the were too bloody focused on not making a mistake - you could see they were thinking far too much. All I ask from the players is this; you have been picked to play your chosen sport at the highest level possible. Most of you are there because you have superior skills, potential and abilities. Find these skills and abilities that you had as a junior and put them in to place NOW. Take risks, a majority of time in Aussie Rules footy instinct is the best decision maker. Back yourself, you are in the AFL for a reason, show us! Scully and Trengove did exactly this on the weekend and they were among our best players. All players, especially our senior players should take a leaf out of their book. Strauss and even Grimes would benefit in watching what Scully and trengove did - especially in the 2nd half.

Sorry for crapping on people - this is what's been on my chest for some time now and I've finally shared my views. As the admin people say, don't attack the poster! It's my opinion - I'm sure people will agree with some parts and disagree with other parts!

[jayceebee31 761]

And the award for "most ill-considered and ignorant thread" goes to... This one!

Congrats. You win tickets to sit in the audience for Judge Judy.

You are just a galah- no idea and look whom could not make to the game-- YOU.No wonder Magic Yze does not enter this site very often when he has posters like you to attend with.

Edited March 28, 2010 by jayceebee31