There is no God.

[Akum 2,660]

Who knew Adelaide were so one-dimensional?

They have no forward prepared to lead, and no midfielder (except for McLeod, who was played far too far back) capable of working the ball through a crowded corridor. Their only play into the forward line was the long bomb, which made it so easy for Maxwell & Presti & Shaw (one brain, one big, one small) to clean up. Collingwood do well against Adelaide because Adelaide make it so easy for them!

Malthouse is the best match-day coach, assuming it's Malthouse who does the match-day tactics (if it's someone else, we need them no matter how much it costs). If an average or one-dimensional team belts them for a quarter, Malthouse will always figure out how to stop them at the quarter break. This is why it was a completely different game after quarter time, when Collingwood went man-on-man and closed up the middle. IMO Malthouse's coaching has got a side that should struggle to make the 8 into the last 4.

There's major lessons for us in that game too. One being that long bombs to power forwards who can "crash packs" is one-dimensional, can be easily countered by a team with a half-decent defence, and teams that rely on this tactic rarely have an alternative once it does get countered. It's far harder to counter a team that has a number of different avenues to goal.

But the biggest lesson is the critical importance of that last delivery into the forward 50, no matter how good a team looks in getting it to that point.

[Adam The God 30,261]

And yet, nothing ever seems to happen to keep this from occurring. I think it was either Blight or Walls (what a commentary team THAT was.... snore) watching Joffa lose his brain over a simple over the boundary line call who said "they paid their money." Like they're allowed to do whatever they want once in the stands.

As for the pies I can't help but think of two big parallels. One is the Lions. They had an even more stirring comeback a week ago, and look what happened to them? They limped into a semi and were comprehensively done by a bulldogs team that only persevered though low confidence, in horrible kicking conditions that didn't suit them at ALL. They spent all their gas the week before and got done big time.

The second parallel is us 3 years ago. We had what was deemed as the best Victorian list, we beat the Saints after a spirited comeback, who were all playing on one leg it seemed. Then we wander over to Subi to get pantsed by the biggest joke club in the AFL. Half a season later it's curtains for Neale, most of his panel, and we're left with most of the list offering only the reflex twitches of their dead careers.

Of the four teams left in the finals, I think only the Saints and Dogs have the right to be genuinely positive about the coming few years. And even the Dogs could drop off easily with a LOT of older players still holding things together for them. The Cats are going to decline over the next few years I think (only out of flag contention, they'll still be dangerous). And the Pies have gotten WAY further than they should have.

After that only the Blues and Hawks I think will come on strong.

Enjoy this time Eddie and your great unwashed. It'll be the biggest celebration you're going to have for a while. I'd HATE to be a pies supporter in exactly a week's time.

I was at the Prelim final in '07 between the two teams (Geelong v Pies) and the filth were unlucky not to beat Geelong. Furthermore, this season Geelong have begun to start choaking, so I wouldn't be surprised if they get beaten next week.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Well I was there and I thought it one of the great pieces of theatre I'd attended. Football is a great spectacle and last nights game just about had it all. A fantastic mixture of pressure and skill, the comeback, the counter comeback and then the drama. For genuine footy lovers it was a game for the ages.

What did surprise me was the crowd. Firstly it was only 62,000 and at least one third were Crows supporters, and they were vocal. The crowd did lift Collingwood in the last but the Crows had a fair bit of support.

As for Collingwood supporters. They are no different from any other club. The worst behaved and ugliest supporters I've ever seen was a number of years ago in Adelaide sitting in front of the Melbourne Cheers Squad. They were an absolute disgrace.

Good call Fan!

I was there as a neutral observer not too concerned by the result but would have preferred a Crows win. I was buried deep among Pies fans who were all surprisingly civil, but what I could not believe was their noise and their passion. It was pretty awesome to be there to be honest. The crowd go them over the line, there is no doubt (along with Knights` hammy!)

[Chook 15,013]

I was at the Prelim final in '07 between the two teams (Geelong v Pies) and the filth were unlucky not to beat Geelong. Furthermore, this season Geelong have begun to start choaking, so I wouldn't be surprised if they get beaten next week.

That's my view too.

[volders 22]

i secretly hope that pies will beat geelong (even tho i do like the cats) and then get smashed by saints in the gf just so i can see josh fraser cry again.

Who knew Adelaide were so one-dimensional?

They have no forward prepared to lead, and no midfielder (except for McLeod, who was played far too far back) capable of working the ball through a crowded corridor. Their only play into the forward line was the long bomb, which made it so easy for Maxwell & Presti & Shaw (one brain, one big, one small) to clean up. Collingwood do well against Adelaide because Adelaide make it so easy for them!

Malthouse is the best match-day coach, assuming it's Malthouse who does the match-day tactics (if it's someone else, we need them no matter how much it costs). If an average or one-dimensional team belts them for a quarter, Malthouse will always figure out how to stop them at the quarter break. This is why it was a completely different game after quarter time, when Collingwood went man-on-man and closed up the middle. IMO Malthouse's coaching has got a side that should struggle to make the 8 into the last 4.

There's major lessons for us in that game too. One being that long bombs to power forwards who can "crash packs" is one-dimensional, can be easily countered by a team with a half-decent defence, and teams that rely on this tactic rarely have an alternative once it does get countered. It's far harder to counter a team that has a number of different avenues to goal.

But the biggest lesson is the critical importance of that last delivery into the forward 50, no matter how good a team looks in getting it to that point.

it's not that they are that one dimensional they have 6 equally effective forwards. what really hurts them is that they didn't have a penetrating kick out of the midfield. edwards, goodwin, McLeod and ottens all got a lot of ball but some of their disposal was shocking. i thought they did well for a team that imo was way out classed in the midfield.

Edited September 13, 2009 by volders

[sideshowbob 0]

As opposed to Melbourne supporters who hope to lose games every year. Memo to the MCC Members (which, I'm one) who are Melbourne supporters, don't turn up on Saturday night, I don't want to queue up to get in the FGS behind other supporters of clubs not good enough to get there!

HA!

I hope you enjoy explaining to my Collingwood supporting mother who I'm bringing in on a visitor ticket why she isn't allowed to go to the game, then!

I look forward to finding you in the FGS and "accidentally" spilling beer on you.

[Hobbits's 17]

I look forward to finding you in the FGS and "accidentally" spilling beer on you.

Charming.

Isnt old xav's the one who comes in to this forum chirps away when someone has had a go at Collingwood or when it gets 'under his skin'.

Hope you're carrying a pint when he's found.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

As opposed to Melbourne supporters who hope to lose games every year. Memo to the MCC Members (which, I'm one) who are Melbourne supporters, don't turn up on Saturday night, I don't want to queue up to get in the FGS behind other supporters of clubs not good enough to get there!

[censored] off, i pay my cash. i will go to whatever game i wish Filth.

Back to your cave.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

Dappa - I can't agree about your assessment of the Collingwood list. In reality the only key player to the team who will retire over the next couple of years will be Prestigiacomo. There are a couple of lesser lights, Lockyer, Johnson, O'Bree who are also near their last legs. Rocca was finished years ago. They have drafted well in recent times, got good young players playing significant roles in their teams.

Whereas most of our key players from 2006 were near or on their last legs, and are now gone from our side.

12 of the Collingwood 22 on Saturday nite was 21 or younger (Beams 19 & Pendlebury 21 were missing). The 2nd youngest side to win a final since Brisbane in 2000 (the last one was Collingwood last year against Adelaide). Steele Sidebottom widely recognized as BOG on Saturday nite as a 18 year old, what a stuff up drafting Watts ahead of him & the likes of Hurley & Rich.

Edited September 14, 2009 by The Old Xaverian

[titan_uranus 25,020]

12 of the Collingwood 22 on Saturday nite was 21 or younger (Beams 19 & Pendlebury 21 were missing). The 2nd youngest side to win a final since Brisbane in 2000 (the last one was Collingwood last year against Adelaide). Steele Sidebottom widely recognized as BOG on Saturday nite as a 18 year old, what a stuff up drafting Watts ahead of him & the likes of Hurley & Rich.

Everything was going fine until this. As it stands Rich and Hurley are streets in front of Sidebottom, who has now played a grand total of 1 competent games (yes, he was BOG, and he looked like a very good player). But I reckon he was very, very lucky to hold his spot after his non-performance against St Kilda.

As for Watts, wait 5 years, then we'll see.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

12 of the Collingwood 22 on Saturday nite was 21 or younger (Beams 19 & Pendlebury 21 were missing). The 2nd youngest side to win a final since Brisbane in 2000 (the last one was Collingwood last year against Adelaide). Steele Sidebottom widely recognized as BOG on Saturday nite as a 18 year old, what a stuff up drafting Watts ahead of him & the likes of Hurley & Rich.

Nick Davis was an inspired pick up for Collingwood. His 2002 GF performance was inspiring! I enjoyed watching it at the Ground. Watts is still in school till years end Dipstick.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

Everything was going fine until this. As it stands Rich and Hurley are streets in front of Sidebottom, who has now played a grand total of 1 competent games (yes, he was BOG, and he looked like a very good player). But I reckon he was very, very lucky to hold his spot after his non-performance against St Kilda.

As for Watts, wait 5 years, then we'll see.

Sidebottom has been rotated in/out of the side all year, just like other youngsters such as Dayne Beams (who finished 4th in the RS) & Brad Dick (who has kicked 23 goals in 14 games). Like his TAC GF performance, he is a big game player & played the best game out of any draftee from 08 on Saturday night.

He was one of our best against St. Kilda. Getting back to the fallacy that we're old, our best side is actually younger than yours.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Sidebottom has been rotated in/out of the side all year, just like other youngsters such as Dayne Beams (who finished 4th in the RS) & Brad Dick (who has kicked 23 goals in 14 games). Like his TAC GF performance, he is a big game player & played the best game out of any draftee from 08 on Saturday night.

He was one of our best against St. Kilda. Getting back to the fallacy that we're old, our best side is actually younger than yours.

Beams is a star/will be a star. Really, really good player. You've done well to ensure he doesn't go to the Gold Coast.

Disagree re: Dick. Over-rated IMO. Chips in with some goals and can provide a spark, but goes missing for long periods and doesn't get enough of the ball.

Sidebottom was crap against St Kilda.

[Guest delicious jurrah coffee]

[censored] off, i pay my cash. i will go to whatever game i wish Filth.

Back to your cave.

dont you mean back to your caravanpark.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

Beams is a star/will be a star. Really, really good player. You've done well to ensure he doesn't go to the Gold Coast.

Disagree re: Dick. Over-rated IMO. Chips in with some goals and can provide a spark, but goes missing for long periods and doesn't get enough of the ball.

Sidebottom was crap against St Kilda.

Dick is coming back from a knee reco so he is a bit tentative, 23 goals from 14 games in/out of the seniors is a very good return. He'll either be a mid 30's to 40 goalkicker per season or a midfielder of note (he's more highly skilled than Leon).

Sidebottom on the other hand has more scope/class than Beams. Our recruiting is proof that high picks are useless without proper development.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

12 of the Collingwood 22 on Saturday nite was 21 or younger (Beams 19 & Pendlebury 21 were missing). The 2nd youngest side to win a final since Brisbane in 2000 (the last one was Collingwood last year against Adelaide). Steele Sidebottom widely recognized as BOG on Saturday nite as a 18 year old, what a stuff up drafting Watts ahead of him & the likes of Hurley & Rich.

Getting back to the fallacy that we're old, our best side is actually younger than yours.

Watts will be better than any one of your KP forwards currently listed. Yes, Cloke, Antony etc etc... He's a KP player who hasn't developed. Hurley is a KP player who HAS developed. Watts won't be playing regular football for another 3 years.

Aaaah the Collingwood supporters. IMPOSSIBLE to impress even the simplest facts into their

As for your youngest side rant... EVERY list has 12 players on the lower side of 21,22,23 unless you're the Swans who like 'em old, or a side currently going for a flag.

I'd back our 21-and-unders against your 21-and-unders any day of the week. You have Davis, Didak, Cloke, Fraser, Johnson etc etc who are all mature players and who ALL got you over the line...

We have NO mature players in their prime except for Bruce, Davey, Green, McDonald and Miller... Only one or two of which will be 22 round players in a couple of years time.

Here's another kernel of truth for you. Collingwood will win exactly the same amount of flags over the next 3 years as the demons... who have pick 1 and 2 in this year's draft. 3 years ago we were the kind of supporters that would gasbag on and on about how great we were for making a final or two. But it means squat.

In all seriousness, congratulations to you and your side on playing a game of footy in a most dignified way, your players for crossing the white line and adding something to footy's great history, and your coach for being one of the all-time greats... But I'd suggest you look here:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630234

This is why your club is hated. Pure and simple, there are some parochial supporters who get drunk and beat up on the parents of players at another club, are an embarrassment to the game. It's all well and good to love your club, even in a one-eyed way, but coming on an opposition board to defend the pies is ridiculous. You're side is nothing compared to the Saints or Cats... and the Dogs are more entitled to pride than your mob.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

As for your youngest side rant... EVERY list has 12 players on the lower side of 21,22,23 unless you're the Swans who like 'em old, or a side currently going for a flag.

I'm not talking about our list, on Saturday night, our side had 12 players 21 Years Old or younger. It's telling that Pendlebury (nominated for the AA side in 09) is 21 & Beams is 19 (he came fourth in the RS) didn't play (that would make it 14 of the 22). No side has had more RS nominations than us in the last 4 years, had as many high finishes in the award, a 4 year period where we haven't tanked & collected draft pick after draft pick, but played & won finals after finals.

You have Davis, Didak, Cloke, Fraser, Johnson etc etc who are all mature players and who ALL got you over the line

Fraser didn't play (it would help if you looked at the game).

Cloke is 22 & a mature player?

Davis & Didak were non entities.

The likes of Sidebottom, John Anthony, Wood, Wellingham, Thomas & co got us over the line. All young players.

Edited September 14, 2009 by The Old Xaverian

[Carlos Danger 380]

I am thinking a St Kilda/Geelong grand final is pretty much a given, should be a great game.

[pitmaster 3,561]

).

Cloke is 22 & a mature player?

Davis & Didak were non entities.

The likes of Sidebottom, John Anthony, Wood, Wellingham, Thomas & co got us over the line. All young players.

Anthony kicked the winning goal but was otherwise a non-contributor.

Didak looks ordinary suddenly and might be having an attack of the Milnes.

Cloke is simply horribly over-rated as is Thomas.

That said you have to admire the Pies as a playing unit.

I know many of their fans seem to major in boganesque idiocy but I also admire what their playing group regularly achieves despite less talent than their opponents. Face it - they give their people a great ride. No slinging off at the mental or phsysical shortcomings of their fans can take that away.

Get a little mature people.

[45HG 1,539]

Saints/Cats will be a good game

[H_T 3,047]

He was one of our best against St. Kilda. Getting back to the fallacy that we're old, our best side is actually younger than yours.

Care to check the stats.

[Skipper3 7]

I'm not talking about our list, on Saturday night, our side had 12 players 21 Years Old or younger. It's telling that Pendlebury (nominated for the AA side in 09) is 21 & Beams is 19 (he came fourth in the RS) didn't play (that would make it 14 of the 22). No side has had more RS nominations than us in the last 4 years, had as many high finishes in the award, a 4 year period where we haven't tanked & collected draft pick after draft pick, but played & won finals after finals.

Fraser didn't play (it would help if you looked at the game).

Cloke is 22 & a mature player?

Davis & Didak were non entities.

The likes of Sidebottom, John Anthony, Wood, Wellingham, Thomas & co got us over the line. All young players.

For a start - Pendlebury & Beams DIDNT play, so there is no point at all including them in your argument here.

Anthony did nothing (except be lucky to held by the arm by a thick head in Rutten)

Yes, everyone would consider Cloke (who is 22 & has played 99 games) to be a mature player.

What would you consider a mature player?? 150 games?? 200 games??

You talk about RS noms etc, has a Filth player won it?

Yes, you have played finals over the last couple of years, but like any club - your club has had down periods for a few years. So, dont get ahead of yourself.

Your comment on Jack Watts shows you have no idea at all about football.

BTW - if you cant show respect here - p155 off!!!!!! FFS

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm not talking about our list, on Saturday night, our side had 12 players 21 Years Old or younger. It's telling that Pendlebury (nominated for the AA side in 09) is 21 & Beams is 19 (he came fourth in the RS) didn't play (that would make it 14 of the 22). No side has had more RS nominations than us in the last 4 years, had as many high finishes in the award, a 4 year period where we haven't tanked & collected draft pick after draft pick, but played & won finals after finals.

You know who led the amount of RS nominations before we bottomed out? Us... We had something like 9 during Daniher's era. We also had 1&2 one year, and were the last to have a unanimous before Rich.

Rising Star means nothing. Grimes didn't get nominated. Rivers won it and is only a contributor at the moment. Besides, it's a media-based award... and who has the most media? Surprise surprise, Eddiewood.

But you keep that head of yours in the sand mate. We went through what you're going through for ten years. Because of your draw, money and facilities you'll turn 8th into 4th for a few years, unlike MFC who made finals with NOTHING... and we'll end up in the same place as you, with no flags. Only less cashed-up.

Oh, and we'll take our draft picks, given our mediocrity over the last 10 years. Same as you took Fraser.

Funny that you have a Pies supporter getting all up in arms about "not tanking." You tanked to get your ruckman, so drop that load of BS right there.

Your club's arrogance is what will be their downfall. You will lose next week to a club that DID bottom out, and as a consequence got the best KP forward in the game at the moment.

But you keep flying that flag... All the guts in the world, and no brains. Just like your club.

Fraser didn't play (it would help if you looked at the game).

Cloke is 22 & a mature player?

Davis & Didak were non entities.

The likes of Sidebottom, John Anthony, Wood, Wellingham, Thomas & co got us over the line. All young players.

Aaah bugger. I did know that, I meant to delete his name but forgot. As for Cloke, of COURSE he's mature. He's played a lot of footy. And GOOD footy. I'm talking about games played. That's a more accurate reflection of where a player is at than age, as players are all different shapes and sizes and take varying times to come good.

As for your list of who got you through... Leigh Brown kicked an important goal... Davis and Didak played fantastically in the second half, when you WON the game!!... And Johnson kicked probably your most important two goals, besides Anthony's of course.

You think I didn't watch the game? Your list of players that "got you over the line?" What were you watching? Anthony was unsighted before his big kick at the death.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

I'm not talking about our list, on Saturday night, our side had 12 players 21 Years Old or younger. It's telling that Pendlebury (nominated for the AA side in 09) is 21 & Beams is 19 (he came fourth in the RS) didn't play (that would make it 14 of the 22). No side has had more RS nominations than us in the last 4 years, had as many high finishes in the award, a 4 year period where we haven't tanked & collected draft pick after draft pick, but played & won finals after finals.

Very convenient of you Old Xavs to only go back 4 years in the Rising Star, when you full know well if you had of gone back one more year you would see that we went 1 & 2 that year(Rivers & Davey).

I haven't done the math, but if you include that year i presume we are right up there as well.

Also, if you know how the nominations work, you will know that they often go to players on winning teams, which with Melboure having only won 13 of 66, gives us a far less chance of snagging nominations, but i will back in Jones, Petterd, Morton, Wonamaerri, Garland, Grimes and Jurrah over that time span, than Collingwoods Pendlebury, Clarke, Goldsack, Brown, Barham, Dick and Beams any day of the week buddy.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

Also, if you know how the nominations work, you will know that they often go to players on winning teams, which with Melboure having only won 13 of 66, gives us a far less chance of snagging nominations, but i will back in Jones, Petterd, Morton, Wonamaerri, Garland, Grimes and Jurrah over that time span, than Collingwoods Pendlebury, Clarke, Goldsack, Brown, Barham, Dick and Beams any day of the week buddy.

You forgot Heath Shaw who along with Pendlebury is that far ahead of any of those Melbourne players listed that it's no surprise we're into our 2nd Prelim in 3 years & you are the laughing stock of the AFL. The neutrals also rate Beams ahead of those too.

I'm still in amazement at how you took Watts at 1. I saw about 10 players ahead of him in the APS matches I saw this year. Wallis (who is a borderline potential draftee) absolutely tore him apart.

Edited September 14, 2009 by The Old Xaverian