John Butcher

[grant 10]

I understand the need for a quality midfield, and everyone is beating their drum about it, but Scully aside, Im not sure if this years draft presents another stand out, highly certain, elite mid.

From prior year drafts, how many supporters would be satisfied if the Dees wound up with a Zieble or a Palmer type mid with pick 3. Both were very highly touted mids, but not the elite calibre players that MFC supporters are attempting to bank on with pick 3. I believe that Daniel Rich is the only virtually certain "elite" mid to come out of the draft in the last three years.

So I propose we select Butcher at pick 3 with the intention of either keeping him (as KPF can usually only be obtained in the early picks of the draft) or put him on the trade table for sides like NM, Ess and Syd who will soon be kicking themselves to have a KPF to repair the abyss left in the forward line after the Loyds and O'Loughlin's retire from the game.

[Hannabal 4]

Scully aside, Im not sure if this years draft presents another stand out, highly certain, elite mid.

You may be right.

What are your credentials in making such an assessment ?

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I'd rather (always assuming we get picks 1&2) that we trade that pick to Adelaide for Dangerfield and their pick 12/13 (possibly with a 3 rounder depending on how deep the MFC sees the draft and how many spots we have). Pick 1, 12/13, 17/18/19 and Dangerfield could be a very good result for us.

[grant 10]

You may be right.

What are your credentials in making such an assessment ?

My credentials (opinion) is as good as yours and the rest of the fan base who are chasing fools gold by banking on a superstar mid at pick 2 or 3. My opinion, is that we should consider the option of obtaining Butcher as trade bate for an already existing player.

[Carn dees 108]

I'd rather (always assuming we get picks 1&2) that we trade that pick to Adelaide for Dangerfield and their pick 12/13 (possibly with a 3 rounder depending on how deep the MFC sees the draft and how many spots we have). Pick 1, 12/13, 17/18/19 and Dangerfield could be a very good result for us.

Why woudl Adelaide do that?

Trade a gun for a pick in hope of getting another gun.

If i were adelaide theres no chance id do that, plus id rather tippet.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Carn dees

[Hannabal 4]

My credentials (opinion) is as good as yours and the rest of the fan base who are chasing fools gold by banking on a superstar mid at pick 2 or 3. My opinion, is that we should consider the option of obtaining Butcher as trade bate for an already existing player.

Silly answer.

How much under 18 footy have you watched ? And don't be defensive, just answer the question. After all, you started the thread with an insinuation that you know that there's no other mid worthy of consideration for a top 3 pick. And you may be right.

So, what are your credentials with regards to under age football ?

[PeterJames 46]

Trengove had 32 touche, 13 contested for sturt today... i would be close to taking him no.1, hopefully we get 1 and 2 so we can get both

[Carn dees 108]

Trengove had 32 touche, 13 contested for sturt today... i would be close to taking him no.1, hopefully we get 1 and 2 so we can get both

Trengove had 32 disposals and 13 marks for Sturt yesterday in the SANFL Seniors, after last week winning the Coca Cola Star Search (SANFL equivalent of the NAB Rising Star Award) nomination for Round 16. So he's getting it done against the men as well as in the U/18s.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Why woudl Adelaide do that?

Trade a gun for a pick in hope of getting another gun.

If i were adelaide theres no chance id do that, plus id rather tippet.

The theory being that 1) My guts still start hurting seeing Thompson in the fruit tingle colours so I'm wary of Tengrove, and 2) I believe that Dangerfield is a Vic boy who might want to come home. I could be wrong on that but I'd be happy with Tippet and the deal I mentioned. And it costs nothing to shop it around - we can always say no if we don't get what and use the pick as we see fit.

[Left Field 313]

Good question H.

Too many posters are relying on third party assesments of 16 and 17 year olds. Some of them are playing in seniors; others are playing in schoolboy footy. Etc.

Its really easy to echo the views of those who are spoon feeding us their opinions of the next generation. Would love to hear from soemone that has actually watched them play some footy.

[Guest Watts=Saviour]

I really don't think butcher is anything close to a worthy number 3 pick. I'd much rather see us take a midfielder, even if they're not of elite class. Our foward line is already starting to show it's potential.

[Toot182 7]

I believe that Daniel Rich is the only virtually certain "elite" mid to come out of the draft in the last three years.

Selwood? He's clearly elite.

[Adam286 0]

Hi all, rookie poster here (well almost, don't hammer me too much). Just thought I'd share this bi of info on this subject.

I actually saw Butcher play today in Morwell, and was mighty impressed. He finished with 6 goals, about 3-4 goal assists, lead and provided a target for nearly every one of Powers forward 50 entries, took a few contested marks and even slotted a couple from the boundry, about 40-50m out. He tried all day.

What impressed me most about his game apart from the obvious stated above was his pace, his defensive pressure (would take off to attempt tackles and physically impose himself) and his ability to bring others into the game. When taking a mark on one of his many leads he would immediatly scan the forward line to see if there was a teammate in a better postion. If it was on, he generally hit them lace out (by hand or foot), if not he would set in to his routine and take the set shot (he really kicks through the ball, gives them a lot of height).

I had only seen him live once previous to today at the Dome in the champs when he was obviously carrying an injury, but today my fears re attitude, skill and ability were put to ease. This kid can play. While I believe in the best available when it comes to the draft (in particular 2 mids if we secure a PP), I have no doubt that he deserves to be spoken of in the sam breath as the Scully, Trengove and Morabito's of this world.

I must also admit that I did have a moment when I did think that a forward line of HF: Sylvia, Watts, Jurrah & F: Wonaeamirri, Butcher, Bate/Jetta could be a particularly potent combination in years to come.

.... Just a bit of food for thought.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Adam286

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I actually saw Butcher play today in Morwell etc

Interesting. I'd pretty much written him off but if he was struggling from injury through the Carnival maybe he is worth a second look. Cheers for the info.

[Don24 103]

What a silly post. For starters to suggest that daniel rich is the only certain elite mid to come out of the draft in the last three years is absolutely idiotic. You have said Zeible and Palmer are not elite players is ridiculous. They have played one season of footy each and both have showed exceptional talent. How can you judge them so early and say they wont develop into elite players???

Getting back to no elite midfielders in the last three years? I struggled to understand what a stupid statement that is. How can you justify saying Bryce Gibbs wont become an elite midfielder? Trent Cotchin?? Joel Selwood? Stephen Hill looks to have superstar written all over him. Do you actually know any of these players or do you just think that because they are not being talked about for All Australian yet that they will never make it?? Really does prove your lack of any understanding on what your talking about.

Butcher to be taken and used as trade bait is almost as dumb? why would you draft someone as trade bait? If hes that valuable then why trade him? keep him?

This is my vote for worst thread of the year! (Yze Magic excluded)

[DaveyJones'sLocker 585]

harsh on palmer..

he played 1 season and imo it was better than richs' this season

[BAMF 3,787]

Trade Butcher?

We dont even have him on the list yet and people are calling for him to be traded! This must be a first!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm not against that first post. He could turn out to be right... All MOST of us are going on is an admittedly large amount of online homework. There's a handful that get to the games, sure, but even there they're going on what they see, not what they know. Personally there are fans running around who seem to be idiot savants when it comes to knowing if a player is going to be good, based only on how the player moves in traffic.

What's of greater concern for me is the fact that we'll (hopefully) have a couple of early ones, followed by one in the late teens or early twenties, followed by one in the 30s. This year has shown the importance of your mid-late picks being good, in Bennell and Jetta. My concern is first and foremost for pick 3... I'd be thrilled at this stage with Trengrove and Scully, but even there we don't know if we're getting pick 1 yet.

After that it's the other two picks I'm concerned about. Can't wait to see what BP does. Going for type, or for best available. Or even a trade?

[Jarka 767]

Looking back at which midfielders were taken early that I'd be happy with pick 2 or 3?

Cotchin

Masten

Hill

Rich

Ziebell

Palmer

Each one of these kids would add something to our current midfield.

[Nasher 33,047]

Or even a trade?

There are no words to describe how disappointed I would be if we were to trade any of our early picks this year.

[Whispering_Jack 27,965]

John Butcher returned to form at the weekend and booted five goals for Gippsland Power and another game or two like that could have him back on the Demon radar (if he was ever off it).

I think I'm right in saying that VFL clubs are entitled to play one TAC Cupper every week now to the end of the H & A season and the Scorpions' allocated TAC Cup team just happens to be the Power. The Scorpions play North Ballarat in the ABC VFL Match of the Day at Morwell in a fortnight's time in a special promotion for the CFA. This presents a perfect opportunity for the Scorpions to select Butcher as their 23rd man TAC Cup player. The likelihood is that we will also see Jack Watts on return from injury on the same day.

Imagine ... Watts and Butcher in the same game for Casey ... followed by a sneak preview of Scully the next day because he's a certainty to line up for the APS in the annual derby against the AGS which will be the curtain raiser to our game at Etihad Stadium against North Melbourne!

[H_T 2,941]

I'm either lost or confused or neither. People want us to finish low and get the best picks available - which is understandable, but then want to "trade" for them?

[H_T 2,941]

John Butcher returned to form at the weekend and booted five goals for Gippsland Power and another game or two like that could have him back on the Demon radar (if he was ever off it).

I think I'm right in saying that VFL clubs are entitled to play one TAC Cupper every week now to the end of the H & A season and the Scorpions' allocated TAC Cup team just happens to be the Power. The Scorpions play North Ballarat in the ABC VFL Match of the Day at Morwell in a fortnight's time in a special promotion for the CFA. This presents a perfect opportunity for the Scorpions to select Butcher as their 23rd man TAC Cup player. The likelihood is that we will also see Jack Watts on return from injury on the same day.

Imagine ... Watts and Butcher in the same game for Casey ... followed by a sneak preview of Scully the next day because he's a certainty to line up for the APS in the annual derby against the AGS which will be the curtain raiser to our game at Etihad Stadium against North Melbourne!

Good point and good observation WJ. Watch with interest if those cards fall into place.

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

if we want to get rid of pick 3 then I am happy to trade it direct for dangerfield. both parties win, adelaide get trengrove and we get a victoria gun who is home sick.

[Salems Lot 2,369]

Has anyone an update on Scully, I have noticed that the last couple of weeks he has not featured in the "Best" for Dandenong. Is he on school duties?...he does play for Dandenong doesn't he?