15th on the ladder

[BangkokDemon 96]

I agree, we were as bad as Fitzroy was in their last years. This year in comparison the club has a different vibe around it with Watts and Jurrah creating alot of that excitement. How did we manae to get those two players?

By finishing last.

Jarka,that was then, this is now.

I know that if we do manage to hold on to our priority draft pick position that will be a plus.

But, is the damage that would be caused to the current player group knowing we intentionally "tanked", worth it ?

And what would a number one pick think about being "conscripted" by a coniving scheme, just to get him?

Then of course, there's the damage to the club's reputation and I daer say long term survival.

Did Carlton benefit a lot from all the "scheming" they did back in the 90s- the "tanking" talk of recent years was chicken feed compared to that?

Edited July 12, 2009 by BangkokDemon

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

WCE yes, but Port had A LOT to play for. They are playing for finals and aren't going to get anything out of tanking games. That was a very very poor effort from them but i don't think they 'willingly' flew the white flag.

Port are financially straightened and its very dysfunctional at Port. They have resigned a coach who has lost the senior players and has only signed because of his designs to coach in Victoria with "Not intererested". They have a captain appointed under allegations that not all senior players supported the decision. There is alot of stuff bubbling away at Port.

Alot of their players dogged it today with little or no defensive efforts. At times it was bleeding obvious. Of course they willingly flew the white flag. It was their choice.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Or did we beat some other teams that I missed?

More than possible that was the case.

Both oppositions were as soft as butter against MFC.

Port rallied to their colours today. Perhaps missing a yellow stripe running down their backs.

[grazman 7,451]

Port are financially straightened and its very dysfunctional at Port. They have resigned a coach who has lost the senior players and has only signed because of his designs to coach in Victoria with "Not intererested". They have a captain appointed under allegations that not all senior players supported the decision. There is alot of stuff bubbling away at Port.

Alot of their players dogged it today with little or no defensive efforts. At times it was bleeding obvious. Of course they willingly flew the white flag. It was their choice.

Peter Burgoyne was a disgrace, no matter how you feel about what happens off field, first and for most you represent yourself every time you play... he squibbed it today big time. There's real problems at Port, not least because the problems will fester away until the wound is cauterized. They've dug themselves a very big hole.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Peter Burgoyne was a disgrace, no matter how you feel about what happens off field, first and for most you represent yourself every time you play... he squibbed it today big time. There's real problems at Port, not least because the problems will fester away until the wound is cauterized. They've dug themselves a very big hole.

He was only one of the culprits. But he was as soft as butter.

The level of disinterest amongst the senior core at Port was unbelievable.

Caro's article holds some of the truth in the matters there

[Roost It 1,434]

How does the club orchestrate losing 6 of the last 7 games of the season?

Stand by to find out, because that's whats about to happen.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Roost It

[rpfc 28,779]

Stand by to find out, because that's whats about to happen.

I don't know if we have the ability to do that...

Freo for mine is a lock.

We can lose to NM at the worst stadium in the world.

But Round 18 we play the Tigers in a game that both teams would love to lose, but it will be Green's 200th and before the match Jurrah's jumper will be given to the Yuendumu community. Lot to play for...

YM is right - we look to have enough talent to challenge for a flag in 4+ years time.

Hannabal is also right - the health of the list demands we lose to the Tigers, to give ourselves the best chance to win that flag in 4+ years time.

We will see, but I have already predicted a win today would mean no PP and I stick by that prognostication. It's frustrating but Bailey and the club will have me as a member no matter what the next 7 weeks hold.

But, [censored], I want a flag...

[Go the Biff 3,442]

As Godemons said to me at the G today, we always beat Port here even when we're [censored].

Nothing to be excited about by today's result. I left feeling glum.

Felt exactly the same. It's a stuffed up arrangement when you've got mixed feelings about your own team scoring goals.

It's a [censored] not being able to celebrate a win with any enthusiasm because you're concerned about the longer term imact on your club. I hate feeling like this & almost can't wait for the year to be over.

The stakes are so bloody high though. If you threw Hodge & Kerr into our team would we be a team that could make the finals ? Obviously no. But if you threw them into what this team could be in a couple of years it's a different story.

That's what we have at our fingertips - the chance to pick up a pair of Hodge-like and/or Kerr-like players for next year who will develop with this team. We need them both.

I too want a flag - not an occasional victory against mediocre interstate sides.

And I never want to have to feel like this again - couldn't even sing the bloody song after the game

[Real Demon 232]

Lets get a few things in perspective.

The group collectively is playing with more confidence, which is worth a player+ to the side as a whole.

Daniel Rich was not number 1 Draft pick, nor was James Hird, James Bartel, Joel Selwood, Sam Mitchell, Brad Sewell, Buddy etc. so lets not get ahead of ourselves too much by being so negative.

We could look at it this way : Grimes,Bennell & Jetta (& Cheney)have been blooded and could develop into really good midfielders. One bloke broke his leg playing Kick to kick (so he enjoys footy). Nathan Jones is only 21, Moloney isnt much older

My question is How are we going to fit them all into the team !!

We have alreadý unearthed potential Forwards in Watts, Jurrah ,Petterd and Bate.

Garland,Warnock,Frawley have proved they are in the mix. Rivers has got his body right whilst still showing reckless courage.

Jamar has improved markedly and we have backup.

Why the fuss over a possible draft pick. If we continually have number 1 draft picks and priority picks , we will NOT exist !!

Enjoy the win !!!

Sorry Dimmy.........I think you're off the mark.

The science of drafting improves year on year................it's not the hit and miss affair it used to be.

A few top picks can quickly turn a teams fortunes around in a few seasons. The Blues with Gibbs, Murphy and Kruezer are a vastly different side than they were before, and these kids haven't even started to peak yet!

The Hawks won a flag ahead of time by adding two key forwards in Franklin and Roughhead, and a gun midfielder in Lewis to complement their existing number 1 pick in Hodge.

Cooney and Griffin at the Dogs........absolute A graders, and have been critical in turning them around.

Even Collingwood look far more potent in the midfield with Pendlebury and Thomas.

The simple fact of the matter is, we have some good developing players in different positions................but what we lack, and have done for as long as I can remember, is a genuine A grade champion midfielder/s.

We can go into the lucky dip with every other club, and hope we can snare a Hird type late in the draft, but the odds are against it these days!

Our midfield in quite simply, poor, and not able to get us into the finals. Grimes looks great.......but we need more than one to get us anywhere!

Make no mistake about it, and I don't mean to over dramitise things here, but securing a player like Scully, along with another top midfielder, could be the difference between winning and losing a premiership in the future. Take Hodge and Lewis out of the Hawks team last year, and they don't win the flag!

Take Voss and Black from the Lions teams, and they don't 3 peat! Take Ablett and Bartel from the Cats, and they aren't the powerhouse they have been for the last 3 years.

We don't have the luxury of getting a father / son pick like Ablett, or Brown, or draft concessions like Gold Coast will, or Brisbane did...........now is our opportunity to get some genuine class into our team, and we cannot be so flippant about it!

Scully is a must, along with the next best young gun midfielder we can get.

If we can't land some guns this year, we will be short on talent in the midfield for years to come. We will still win games, and improve, but I can't see a flag materialise unless we can land some champion mids sooner rather than later!

Edited July 12, 2009 by Real Demon

[desertfox 9]

All this talk about getting a winning culture is a joke.

How did winning those junk time games against Footscray and Carlton in 2007 help our winning culture??

We havent had a winning culture since 2000 and it didnt last!

I dont see how any Melbourne true blue supporter could want us to win another game this season. This win today was almost as sickening as our win over Carlton in 2007. We won by 11 points over a crap team infront of 15000, wow that's going to help our membership and our winning culture?

Sure those picks arent going to guarantee that we perform next year but how many times have we won games at the end of a crap season only to miss out on good draft picks!!!

It is my view that they will win more games as many of them are playing for their careers. If we get those top 2 picks add Watts in there too and you're looking at 3 or 4 players who wont play for Melbourne next year.

Carn the Dees tank till Round 22 and belt the Sainters!

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Pearce is a player that cuts up teams when not given attention and crawls up into a ball at the slightest sign of a tag. Why tag him?

Ummm, you do realise that Jones was tagging him... Jones, who would struggle to beat a turtle in a foot race!

That was one of the weirdest match-ups going around, and Pearce ended up having a dog of a day. Credit to Jones, but it wasn't the planned outcome IMO.

If we really wanted to win, we would have tagged Cassisi, who was racking it up in the middle, or Rodan who broke the lines and gave them plenty of forward momentum.

Edit: Grimes on Ebert?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Credit to Jones, but it wasn't the planned outcome IMO.

What do you mean?

I know Bailey said in his Press conference that that was exactly what Jones' job was all day.

Still a weird choice though, eh? Like tagging Jetta...

[Hannabal 4]

And I never want to have to feel like this again - couldn't even sing the bloody song after the game

All of that. It was a hollow feeling.

I never wear much club paraphernalia, but usually have a scarf on. I deliberately didn't take it yesterday as it would have been hypocritical.

And good post Real Demon.

[Jarka 767]

Jarka,that was then, this is now.

I know that if we do manage to hold on to our priority draft pick position that will be a plus.

But, is the damage that would be caused to the current player group knowing we intentionally "tanked", worth it ?

And what would a number one pick think about being "conscripted" by a coniving scheme, just to get him?

Then of course, there's the damage to the club's reputation and I daer say long term survival.

Did Carlton benefit a lot from all the "scheming" they did back in the 90s- the "tanking" talk of recent years was chicken feed compared to that?

What benefit did the club get from not tanking in 2007?

The result was two years of the worst football you could imagine.

Talk of damage to the list is nonsense because the majority of players who have been on the list over the last couple of years won't be around when we're next challenging for a top 4 spot. This attitude of 'damaging the pysche' of the players is quite hilarious. What damage was done to Hawthorn when the successfully managed their list a couple of years ago? How about Collingwood or St.Kilda? Hell, using your example Carlton are challenging for the finals after an atrocious run not that long ago.

Damage to the club's reputation? What a joke.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

YM is right - we look to have enough talent to challenge for a flag in 4+ years time.

Would you have said that two weeks ago?

The results in the past fortnight should not clouded the fact that we need to ensure we have every access to the best talent in the land to really make that push happen.

We need that PP.

[rpfc 28,779]

Would you have said that two weeks ago?

The results in the past fortnight should not clouded the fact that we need to ensure we have every access to the best talent in the land to really make that push happen.

We need that PP.

Excuse me, Rhino but I was not one of the hennypenny crowd that emerged due to the three awful weeks starting with Collingwood.

I maintain a positive outlook for our medium term future but have always said that, like yourself and H and others, that two picks in the top 4 would be the best outcome for the season.

I'm not going to rattle off the names that make me believe we will be a flag chance in 4+ years time but I believe we can be even without the PP.

But the PP is desired and Bailey should bring back Watts, Cheney, McKenzie, etc for the Tigers game.

I hate saying it - but we have to lose that game.

It would be a big win for our future.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Excuse me, Rhino but I was not one of the hennypenny crowd that emerged due to the three awful weeks starting with Collingwood.

I maintain a positive outlook for our medium term future but have always said that, like yourself and H and others, that two picks in the top 4 would be the best outcome for the season.

I'm not going to rattle off the names that make me believe we will be a flag chance in 4+ years time but I believe we can be even without the PP.

But the PP is desired and Bailey should bring back Watts, Cheney, McKenzie, etc for the Tigers game.

I hate saying it - but we have to lose that game.

It would be a big win for our future.

Nothing has changed over the past two weeks of consequence. We are still shoort of top line talent. And the successful clubs of the past decade vindicate that.

Even with Scully we are no certainty to challenge for a flag. But what I do know is that without him, its going to be tougher much tougher.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,647]

too much hate in this forum at the moment so im not going to put my two cents in other than hand it over to my good friend JVD... i implore you guys to follow suit and join JVD... enjoy winning two games in a row for the first time in a long time... Lets smile and get a long...yeah...

Mousey this attachment is a little worrisome. Tell us more!!!!!

[Jarka 767]

Mousey this attachment is a little worrisome. Tell us more!!!!!

It looks like Van Damme...

[Ryan Dee 140]

The matches that could stuff us up.

Melb vs Richmond MCG

Melb vs Kang TD

Melb vs Freo MCG

Lets hope the staff arent as stupid as we think and let freo win, by giving players like Hueghs valenti mcknenzie and bail a crack.

We will not win against the kangers.

[BangkokDemon 96]

What benefit did the club get from not tanking in 2007?

The result was two years of the worst football you could imagine.

Talk of damage to the list is nonsense because the majority of players who have been on the list over the last couple of years won't be around when we're next challenging for a top 4 spot. This attitude of 'damaging the pysche' of the players is quite hilarious. What damage was done to Hawthorn when the successfully managed their list a couple of years ago? How about Collingwood or St.Kilda? Hell, using your example Carlton are challenging for the finals after an atrocious run not that long ago.

Damage to the club's reputation? What a joke.

If you want my opinion: by not tanking in 2007 it showed up most of the problems both on and off the field.

So, yes, it is true we were delivered a couple of terrible years.

Who knows what might have happened if we had "tanked". That is in the realm of fantasy, more suitable for the next Matrix movie, than Melbourne Football Club, in late 2009 and beyond.

I think you miss my point about damage. I was not referring to the "old" damaged goods - many of them are beyod repair - I was referring to our future :

Jurrah, Watts, Morton, Grimes etc., plus some of the best estabished players, Davey, Green, (a wised up) Sylvia and so on.

As for other clubs, as I said earlier, that was then, this is now. This is the last year of the exisiting draft format.

If we end up keeping hold of our PP, I'm happy for that. But, to deliberatly go on the ground to lose, is not something I think we should do.

However, should a player such as Davey or Grimes, or even Jurrah, be shown to be at risk of injury by playing - they should not play.

Same as when Sylvia comes back from suspension; send him to Casey, to learn some discipline.

That is managing our future - not just playing for a win at the "junk end" of our season.

Use the time positively not negatively.

Tanking is negative- even if it ensures a PP.

Blooding young players and not risking injury to others is positive, with very little down side. And if we lose, the up side is obvious.

But, everyone will have tried to win - which is what the game is about....isn't it ?

[Jarka 767]

But, everyone will have tried to win - which is what the game is about....isn't it ?

This game is about trying to win premierships, nothing more, nothing less.

Smart clubs when they're not in a position to win a premiership will concentrate on building a team to possibly win one in the future. Hello Hawthorn, St.Kilda, even hello Carlton.

It's not about trying to lose games, it's about being smart.

Unfortunately, over the last 40 odd years Melbourne has demonstrated time and time again that we're not a smart club.

Forgot to add, i don't believe for one second that a couple of poor years will forever harm a young players development. It's just bot true and there are countless examples of this being incorrect. Brisbane is the best, when the core of their team were starting their playing career they were as good as we are at the moment.

How much long term damage did it do to their three-peat?

Edited July 13, 2009 by Jarka

[H_T 3,049]

We will end up with pick 3 I reckon.

No Tom Scully at the Demons, I reckon he will end up at Freo who will get pick 1.

Will end up like this -

14. Melbourne

15. Richmond

16. Freo

Im not Nostradamus mate, even though my game predictions are usually perfect.

I feel like I've been utterly robbed of the best young gun in the country. At the same time, I also feel as if I have been utterly robbed of the joy of winning two in a row and have some other bunch of schmucks hit the blunt end of the ladder. A double hit, after what in reality was an excellent win. This system blows.

Agree with the feeling. Port Adelaide were both insipid and pathetic and do not deserve a finals berth based on what they have shown. Melbourne continued their good form courtesy of many of the younger players. In particular Jurrah, Jetta, Petterd.

Rivers, Bruce and McLean were prominent and showed excellent touch.

I think Bailey did everything he could to give us a losing chance, but in the end the players wanted it too much and played well.

Did they try stuffing up the interchanges?

I hate the PP system.

It's gotta go.

Surely the story of the day is Port losing to the bottom team. Seriously how pathetic are they?

You're right.

Morton, Watts, Jurrah, Jetta, Petterd, Grimes, Sylvia, Davey, McLean, Bennell, Martin, Maric, Woneamirri, Bate, Garland, Frawley, Strauss, Blease...

We will be very good in a few years, even if we were to magically get banned from this Novembers draft.

Onwards and upwards!!

Good enough for a flag Y_M?

Nice touch, but it makes me wonder mousey....

They have resigned a coach who has lost the senior players and has only signed because of his designs to coach in Victoria with "Not intererested".

Is it official? Has he put pen to paper?

All this talk about getting a winning culture is a joke.

I think with 2 wins in a row now, they've been reminded what a winning culture is all about now. C'mon boys, one more win!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sorry. HT. Williams is still in negotiations. PA should pull out of those discussions. Caro is right about the Club.

[BangkokDemon 96]

This game is about trying to win premierships, nothing more, nothing less.

Smart clubs when they're not in a position to win a premiership will concentrate on building a team to possibly win one in the future. Hello Hawthorn, St.Kilda, even hello Carlton.

It's not about trying to lose games, it's about being smart.

Unfortunately, over the last 40 odd years Melbourne has demonstrated time and time again that we're not a smart club.

Forgot to add, i don't believe for one second that a couple of poor years will forever harm a young players development. It's just bot true and there are countless examples of this being incorrect. Brisbane is the best, when the core of their team were starting their playing career they were as good as we are at the moment.

How much long term damage did it do to their three-peat?

Hey, I have been there for the past 50 years.

I was there when we started shooting ouselves in both feet, by treating Norm Smith as we did and letting Barassi go off to Carlton. I saw all those horrible games and the recruiting of "messiah" players and coaches, who were not.

This is the first time in all those years (since the "glory days"), I have felt we might be learning, how to operate a club and an on ground team.

Like you, I believe, we will have not won anything, until that pennant is proudly unfurled at the start of a next season - or even 2 or 3, before too long.

Winning games now, is of little consequence to that plan/desire - I know that.

Which is why I said in my previous post, we should use the opportunity to develop players and cotton wool others, for the future.

I repeat, if we lose most of these games and end up with the best picks - great.

I just don't think it is a good idea to "tank".

I believe we are starting to be a "smart" club. It is obvious we are "building". If that "building" includes PPs great.

I know we need to take every opportunity to build this team, but are you so desperate that you want to "manipulate" the system just to do it ?