SITTING DOWN

[Demonland 65,975]

SITTING DOWN by The Oracle

Patrons had barely taken their seats for yesterday's encounter at the MCG when Geelong's champion midfielder evoked memories of Usain Bolt as he crashed out of the centre unimpeded, ran to the fifty metre line and rammed home the quickest opening goal in the history of the game. It was yet another example of Gary Ablett Junior magic 2009 style.

There and then, many feared that a massacre was looming of similar proportions to that which befell the Demons when they met the Cats on the MCG last August on the eve of the Beijing Olympic Games opening ceremony.

Back then, the Demons took the result sitting down but it was a different story yesterday. The final result was a flogging by 43 points but it took the visitors until well into the second quarter to assert themselves and, after a period of domination in the third quarter, they were even outscored in the last term by a dogged young Melbourne combination that kept plugging away all day against an opposition that is a sheer class above.

Despite conceding the first two goals of the game, Melbourne was desperately unlucky not to take a handy lead into the first break. Experienced players in Bruce (twice), Davey, Miller and Robertson worked hard to establish shots at goal and missed. Miller's attempt failed to make the distance and supporters watch in dismay as a handful of Cats ran a raffle to decide who would clear the ball from the last line of defence. It took youngsters in Ricky Petterd and Cale Morton to show the way with consecutive goals to give the team the lead late in the quarter before Mooney spoiled the party with the reply.

Still, the quarter time score line of 2.4.16 to 3.3.21 read favourably compared with last August's 0.0.0 to 8.3.51.

Geelong hasn't won 48 out of its last 51 games for nothing and despite James McDonald keeping a reasonably tight rein on Ablett Junior and the emerging Demon defence of Matty Warnock, Stef Martin, Jared Rivers and James Frawley working their butts off to stem the flow, the Cats were able to break away with six goals to two in the second term. This was mainly thanks to the superior class of their midfield with Chapman and Bartel in superb form and the superb finish skills of Steve Johnson. By contrast, Melbourne continued to struggle up forward although Robbo straightened them up to an extent and did finally manage to snag his 400th goal for the club.

The third quarter could easily have turned into an embarrassment for Melbourne but for Geelong's wayward kicking for goal but the defence should take some credit for applying the pressure and keeping up to it's task against the Cats' high possession on ball brigade that persistently pushed the ball forward. At the other end, Robertson kicked a couple to make things look a little more honourable for the Demons' beleaguered attack.

The main feather in Melbourne's cap was the winning of the final quarter by a few points. Admittedly, the Cats were resting Scarlett and Ablett and had probably put up the shutters but the Demons kept plugging away and the likes of Morton, Sylvia, McLean, Jones and the hard working Aaron Davey finished the game off strongly. Special mention should be made of Frawley and a couple of teenagers in Jamie Bennell and Addam Maric. Both made mistakes under pressure but, like many of their team mates on the day, they battled on and never gave in.

They would have learned plenty from competing at close quarters against such a champion team and that sort of experience will hold them in good stead as the team's development phase continues through the next season or so.

Melbourne 2.4.16 4.6.30 6.7.43 10.8.68

Geelong 3.3.21 9.8.62 12.17.89 15.21.111

Goals

Melbourne Robertson 3 Miller 2 Bennell Johnson Morton Petterd Sylvia

Geelong S Johnson 4 Mooney 3 Varcoe 2 Rooke 2 Stokes Ablett Hawkins Chapman

Best

Melbourne Davey Robertson Morton Sylvia Frawley McLean

Geelong Chapman Bartel S Johnson Selwood Enright Mackie

Injuries

Melbourne Nil

Geelong Ablett (groin soreness)

Changes

Melbourne Nil

Geelong Nil

Reports Nil

Umpires Kennedy Ryan Dalgleish

Crowd 36,932 at the MCG

[Forever-Dee 0]

Yesterday morning I took my car in to have two new tyres fitted - a couple of Hankooks of course......

When I dropped the car off I made sure I turned the music right down - I had been playing the Robbo cd - so I didn't want to burst their eardrums.

When I picked up the car later that morning I turned the key in the ignition and was startled to find that the Robbo CD had been cranked right up loud.

The track had been changed and was on Summer of '69.

Go Robbo, and Go Dees!

:D

[Mondê 525]

Yesterday's game against Geelong made me realise the ridiculous amount of players currently on our list that just aren't up to AFL standard. Playing against the best of the best only emphasized this realisation. When I saw Joel Selwood lining up against Lynden Dunn on the wing, I covered my face with my hands. Out of frustration and envy for the game breakers that Geelong possess. We seem to have a lot of players around the 190cm mark that are neither here nor there. They aren't key position, yet they aren't midfielders, they lack pace, and they most definitely cannot kick.

Another player that fits into this category is Matthew Bate. Sure he works hard but when the ball comes to him he is just a repeat fumbler, clanger king. It's just painful to watch these players of 3-4 years experience serve up the same slop that they have game after game, year after year since they debuted. I would forgive a young player like Bennell, who mind you is proving to be more then capable of playing at the highest level, but not the players who after 4 years on our senior list still can't string two good games together. Or even one.

I thought our young players performed reasonably well yesterday which gave me hope for the future, but realistically there is a lot of culling to do before we can have a serious tilt at a flag. Thoughts?

[rpfc 27,591]

Yesterday's game against Geelong made me realise the ridiculous amount of players currently on our list that just aren't up to AFL standard. Playing against the best of the best only emphasized this realisation. When I saw Joel Selwood lining up against Lynden Dunn on the wing, I covered my face with my hands. Out of frustration and envy for the game breakers that Geelong possess. We seem to have a lot of players around the 190cm mark that are neither here nor there. They aren't key position, yet they aren't midfielders, they lack pace, and they most definitely cannot kick.

Another player that fits into this category is Matthew Bate. Sure he works hard but when the ball comes to him he is just a repeat fumbler, clanger king. It's just painful to watch these players of 3-4 years experience serve up the same slop that they have game after game, year after year since they debuted. I would forgive a young player like Bennell, who mind you is proving to be more then capable of playing at the highest level, but not the players who after 4 years on our senior list still can't string two good games together. Or even one.

I thought our young players performed reasonably well yesterday which gave me hope for the future, but realistically there is a lot of culling to do before we can have a serious tilt at a flag. Thoughts?

I really think the culling should end, for two reasons: the next few drafts starting with this one coming up are compromised, and we already have such a young list.

Bate, Newton, Meesen, and PJ (I think PJ) are contracted for next year.

Wheatley, Whelan, Bell, and Dunn will find it difficult to get contracts.

After that it is difficult to move people on.

That leaves Picks 1, 2, 18, and 34 with possible elevations of Spencer and Valenti. I really think that pick 34 should be forgotten (because the change in age has pushed a lot of talent into the 2010 pool) and the space on the list used to elevate a rookie.

So what I'm trying to say is that there is a lot less deadwood than you would imagine and a large clearout this year is not wise.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Get rid of:

Sylvia - Would probably be a servicable player at a better club where he can flash in and out of the play but we can't wait 3-4 years for the list to get to his comfort level. Trade him

PJ - He tries but just isn't up to it. Delist.

Bell - Shocking awareness. Trade to SA?

Possibles:

Dunn - Thought we had a real find when he fist started playing but he just seems a bit lost now. Trade bait?

Bate - Ditto. Wish he had a right side. He just seems too predictable and not sure of his role.

Jamar - I doubt getting rid of 2 rucks will happen but if we could pick up a discard ruckman with a couple of years left in them I'd cut him from the list. (King or Ottens type trades springs to mind)

Miller - Tries his guts out but might be a good trade to GC next year.

Bartram - see Miller except I am not sure on the trade possibilities.

[Freak 100]

i think people are getting a little bit to far ahead with believing we will get the priority pick . we play richmond again, fremantle, west coast at the G, essendon, port at the G...we could easily pull out 4 wins from those games. Even beating brisbane wouldnt be out of the question.

Otherwise trading miller would be good. Trading Dunn would be silly. Just play dunn as the 3rd tall forward he is designed to play and then your welcome. Newton is a keeper.

Bell is a definite goner and i totally agree with Bate, an absolute spud.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Dunn is an interesting one. I think it comes down to how the coaching mob see his role going forward. I'd prefer him to stay because from what I saw from him when he first started I thought he would make a good 2 goal a game forward.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Otherwise trading miller would be good. Trading Dunn would be silly. Just play dunn as the 3rd tall forward he is designed to play and then your welcome. Newton is a keeper.

Bell is a definite goner and i totally agree with Bate, an absolute spud.

My god. The amount of people on this site that jump on and off player bandwagons are ridiculous.

I'm not just pointing at you freak. To be frank, I don't even know if you were on the Bate wagon from the beginning, but I do know that most people on this site were and they had a go at me when I said he has way too many weaknesses to his game.

Bate - Cannot play the game. You have to be able to do more than mark if you want to play AFL.

Newton - Keeper?! Got to be kidding me.

Miller - Has been serviceable but would prefer to trade him to GC for an earlyish draft pick.

Dunn - Absolute joke that he is played in the midfield. He is a serviceable forward also.

Bell is the only player with natural ability. He is a "natural footballer". I don't give a rats a*#^se that he lacks a little awareness. Half our freakin team does.

Bell with confidence is 50 times better than Bate, Dunn and Newton. Ability wise that is as I understand they play in different positions.

Then there is our ruck devision. They will never be great but I guess a premiership side don't need an amazing ruckman if they have a great midfield.

The backline is exciting. I will agree with that.

I have already stated my opinion on Morton. I hope he becomes what people say he will become... I have heard it all before though.

Agree that we still have a lot of dead wood floating around..

[Freak 100]

My god. The amount of people on this site that jump on and off player bandwagons are ridiculous.

I'm not just pointing at you freak. To be frank, I don't even know if you were on the Bate wagon from the beginning, but I do know that most people on this site were and they had a go at me when I said he has way too many weaknesses to his game.

Bate - Cannot play the game. You have to be able to do more than mark if you want to play AFL.

Newton - Keeper?! Got to be kidding me.

Miller - Has been serviceable but would prefer to trade him to GC for an earlyish draft pick.

Dunn - Absolute joke that he is played in the midfield. He is a serviceable forward also.

Bell is the only player with natural ability. He is a "natural footballer". I don't give a rats a*#^se that he lacks a little awareness. Half our freakin team does.

Bell with confidence is 50 times better than Bate, Dunn and Newton. Ability wise that is as I understand they play in different positions.

Then there is our ruck devision. They will never be great but I guess a premiership side don't need an amazing ruckman if they have a great midfield.

The backline is exciting. I will agree with that.

I have already stated my opinion on Morton. I hope he becomes what people say he will become... I have heard it all before though.

Agree that we still have a lot of dead wood floating around..

Agree with most elements of this post. But I definitely was never on Bates bandwagon. He has not been far behind the 'Miller is a hack' bandwagon that ive been driving for many years.

I'm not too sure why Newton is so maligned here. Whilst recently he has been kicking shocking he is usually a good kick for goal and does chase and put pressure on the opposition. He does do alot of the 1%ers, maybe i just don'tsee what everyone else does but I see him chasing all the time. All thats missing is half decent supply and 'Miller-like' opportunities to prove his worth.

Dunn up forward is bleeding obvious. it just has to be done. Bell is a natural footballer and whilst i agree that half of our team has poor awareness, Bell has the worst. He has to turn full 180 degrees just to see whats behind him. Happy to keep him as a back up

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Newton I left off the list because we need forwards at the moment. I'm not sold on him but I can see that he would be more than capable if he can focus. I'm hoping it is just an immaturity thing that can be cured by some spells in the 2's until he realises the potential he has.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Bell is a natural footballer and whilst i agree that half of our team has poor awareness, Bell has the worst. He has to turn full 180 degrees just to see whats behind him. Happy to keep him as a back up

I think that if given the opportunity to string a few games together this year, he will give everyone a bit of a shock.

Hopefully he can get himself back.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

These "list management" threads are going to double every week until draft day. I had a good look at it the other day, and we're going to struggle to come up with 3 mandatory delistings, particularly if some of the older guys leave before seasons' end. There are players everyone loves to hate, like Bell, Dunn, Newton etc etc. But none of them are absolute certainties to be gone by seasons end... not in the same way neitz, White, Yze, Ward, Brown etc etc in the last couple of years.

There's about 30 names on the list you would never want to see gone. We just have SO many kids now, I reckon we might end up losing a few of them before they've been tried properly. Meanwhile Newton and Sylvia are still getting contracts despite showing little or nothing.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

These "list management" threads are going to double every week until draft day. I had a good look at it the other day, and we're going to struggle to come up with 3 mandatory delistings, particularly if some of the older guys leave before seasons' end.

You have got to be kidding.

Both Bell and PJ are in their seventh years of AFL and have big question marks over their capabilities. Dunn's future is indeed questionable.

When you come bottom of the table at the end of the year the delistings wont be hard at all.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Bell is the only player with natural ability. He is a "natural footballer". I don't give a rats a*#^se that he lacks a little awareness. Half our freakin team does.

Bell with confidence is 50 times better than Bate, Dunn and Newton. Ability wise that is as I understand they play in different positions.

A "natural footballer" with no awareness.

[DangerousDemon 3]

Yesterday's game against Geelong made me realise the ridiculous amount of players currently on our list that just aren't up to AFL standard. Playing against the best of the best only emphasized this realisation. When I saw Joel Selwood lining up against Lynden Dunn on the wing, I covered my face with my hands. Out of frustration and envy for the game breakers that Geelong possess. We seem to have a lot of players around the 190cm mark that are neither here nor there. They aren't key position, yet they aren't midfielders, they lack pace, and they most definitely cannot kick.

Another player that fits into this category is Matthew Bate. Sure he works hard but when the ball comes to him he is just a repeat fumbler, clanger king. It's just painful to watch these players of 3-4 years experience serve up the same slop that they have game after game, year after year since they debuted. I would forgive a young player like Bennell, who mind you is proving to be more then capable of playing at the highest level, but not the players who after 4 years on our senior list still can't string two good games together. Or even one.

I thought our young players performed reasonably well yesterday which gave me hope for the future, but realistically there is a lot of culling to do before we can have a serious tilt at a flag. Thoughts?

At what point yesterday did you think Bate worked hard. He does not chase, follow up when he drops a mark or even look like marking a second effort. he looks very slow indeed.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Dunn up forward is bleeding obvious. it just has to be done.

Where was everyone when he WAS played forward early in his career? He can't mark overhead, doesn't get to good positions, and hasn't shown a propensity to kick bags at either level as a lead-up KP forward. Many of his goals are crumbs, or are teh result of bullocking work from other, bigger forwards like Miller, or earlier, Neitz. It's all well and good he has a pretty kick, but unless by now he's showing signs that he loves a marking contest then he's always going to be a bit-part forward... Just like PJ only smaller and a bit quicker.

You have got to be kidding.

Both Bell and PJ are in their seventh years of AFL and have big question marks over their capabilities. Dunn's future is indeed questionable.

When you come bottom of the table at the end of the year the delistings wont be hard at all.

Did you readmy post? There are players who COULD go, But won't. Bell's body is going to be needed to get in between Blease or Morton and the 3-4 freight trains looking to snap him in half in the coming years. PJ was the most improved player last year, and now the fairweather supporters are on his back, despite his slow improvement since round 1... And as for Dunn, if they're not going to drop Sylvia after his years of garbage, they're not going to drop Dunn who's younger and is only just getting to te size he's going to need to be. Also, these guys are perhaps tradeable, which means they won't make room on the list.

If we're talking ONLY delistings, and retirements obviously, then the list shrinks quite a bit. If you have a look at my post you'll see my point was that we are sucking the big one because too much is left to the young kids. Not because wehave dead-wood. Many of the mooted delistings would be premature should they eventuate. Certainly more premature than axing Carroll, White, Ooze, Neitz who all had very little more to offer.

[beelzebub 22,269]

I had a good look at it the other day, and we're going to struggle to come up with 3 mandatory delistings, particularly if some of the older guys leave before seasons' end. There are players everyone loves to hate, like Bell, Dunn, Newton etc etc. But none of them are absolute certainties to be gone by seasons end... not in the same way neitz, White, Yze, Ward, Brown etc etc in the last couple of years.

Come on Dappa... look again. we wont keep all of the rookies for starters. Unless Valenti cements a spot this year he wil simply have proved an interesting pick at the time, a bloke with quite a it of ability just not quite what we need..etc. Youve already suspected Newton..but he maye become tradable.

Wheels would have to be staring his last season in the face.. Bells future is not a gimme. Russian's grip on a spot is weakening by each game

Finding 3 despite any other shananagans ought not prove to hard a task.

[rnymd 0]

Bell is the only player with natural ability. He is a "natural footballer".

What does this mean? What is a 'natural footballer'? What aspects or characteristics of Bell's game makes him a 'natural footballer'?

[PeterJames 46]

Get rid of:

Sylvia - Would probably be a servicable player at a better club where he can flash in and out of the play but we can't wait 3-4 years for the list to get to his comfort level. Trade him

PJ - He tries but just isn't up to it. Delist.

Bell - Shocking awareness. Trade to SA?

Possibles:

Dunn - Thought we had a real find when he fist started playing but he just seems a bit lost now. Trade bait?

Bate - Ditto. Wish he had a right side. He just seems too predictable and not sure of his role.

Jamar - I doubt getting rid of 2 rucks will happen but if we could pick up a discard ruckman with a couple of years left in them I'd cut him from the list. (King or Ottens type trades springs to mind)

Miller - Tries his guts out but might be a good trade to GC next year.

Bartram - see Miller except I am not sure on the trade possibilities.

lost me when you said we could trade dunn??? who would we get from southern football league third division that will help us? this is where dunn should be playing!

[Hannabal 4]

A "natural footballer" with no awareness.

Bell is one of the least "natural footballers" I've seen. He's poor below his knees, he's not crisp or clean with his disposal, he fumbles, he reacts slowly in a tight disposal situation, makes poor decisions, and has diabolical awareness.

Other than that he's great.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Bell is one of the least "natural footballers" I've seen. He's poor below his knees, he's not crisp or clean with his disposal, he fumbles, he reacts slowly in a tight disposal situation, makes poor decisions, and has diabolical awareness.

Other than that he's great.

On the plus side his surname is easy to both spell and pronounce.

[H_T 2,941]

Bate - Cannot play the game. You have to be able to do more than mark if you want to play AFL.

I hope you're not suggesting that Bate is a good mark? Have you ever seen him take a one-grab mark in a contested pack?

Bell is the only player with natural ability. He is a "natural footballer".

[beelzebub 22,269]

Well fellow Demons it seems to me that the timing is aout right to start the process of making thoase hard decisions about who ( long term ) is likely to be a contributor to our efforts in the next couple of years and who may have seeen their best games already played.

If we are to get serious about getting miles into legs and creating a cohesive unit for a tilt then some players ( indeed some follower's favourites ) will have to be put aside to allow the emerging players to get exposure. There are some who's presence on the filed can provide real time mentorship and there are those whose selection simply prohibits the elevation of youth.

Some players are finding it hard to come to terms with the AFL level yet glisten in the VFL. Some older ( and indeed some younger players but on the pripheral ) may never reak into the seniors for want of opportunity. There are still quite a few of the recent drafts yet to get any meanigful ( if any ) game time.

Yes we want to remain competitive, but surely we are strving for long term relevance. Iwould like to see the start of more of the kids eing rotated through the list. Might put a little more heat on some others too to remind them to earn their spots.I dont for one moment suggest handing out jumpers willy-nilly like lollies but where a kid is putting up his hand with efforts then why not see what they can do for a few weeks at a time.

Come years end we will then know far more aout our list , what we need and who unfortunately ( for them ) we dont.

For those that are destined to make it they need to be exposed at the highest level noty only for the coaches etc to see what they have and how they are coming along but also for the players to undetand exactly what is required to make it at AFL level

Id like to see McNamara, Grimes and Cheney get some decent minutes. Would have liked to have seen Strauss..alas !!.. definitley want to see watts in red and blue half a dozen times before year's out

Is it time to plough in some of the older crop in favour of newer varietels ?

[mo64 5,230]

Bell is one of the least "natural footballers" I've seen. He's poor below his knees, he's not crisp or clean with his disposal, he fumbles, he reacts slowly in a tight disposal situation, makes poor decisions, and has diabolical awareness.

Other than that he's great.

In the Casey game on Saturday, he committed the cardinal sin in football, and that is needlessly going to ground rather than keeping your feet. That is inexcusable for a suburban footballer, let alone an AFL one.

His game on Saturday was not up to VFL standard, yet some nuffies on here actually thought he played well.

[Hannabal 4]

In the Casey game on Saturday, he committed the cardinal sin in football, and that is needlessly going to ground rather than keeping your feet. That is inexcusable for a suburban footballer, let alone an AFL one.

His game on Saturday was not up to VFL standard, yet some nuffies on here actually thought he played well.

Unfortunately, I agree.

As I said to someone else, Cheney looked too good for that level and Bell didn't look good enough.