GAMEDAY ON THE GOLD COAST

[True Believer 1]

We had 14 Inside 50s in the first qtr. And we kicked 4.5. And we kicked well, or the right side of contests. 50 I50s a game is about the average for a decent side - 33 is pathetic.

The problem our midfield has had all season long is putting it on someones head instead to the side of the contest that would help their teammate benefit the most.

I'm under no illusions, our forward line is a work in progress, but Nick Riewoldt wouldn't have got a kick at goal in our forward line after qtr time.

It wasn't delivered well, or often enough.

we haven't yet played 4 qrts of footy, this year..... is this a fitness problem ????????????????

[Deano74 156]

No Goals in the second half and no goals in the first half against the Crows.

Clearly our fowards are the problem.

Never will win if you cant kick enough goals.

I thought we kept Saints forward line in check as you possibly could.

Just hoping for the Day when Wona returns, Watts is flying, Hopefully Jurrah is up and about, and Sylvia can reproduce last weeks game on a regular basis, then we will have some happy times.

Whats good is watching Maric, Grimes, Bennell, Mortons, coming on.

[rpfc 27,449]

we haven't yet played 4 qrts of footy, this year..... is this a fitness problem ????????????????

For McLean it might be, but our midfield suffer from a debilitating dread in the Premiership Qtr (the third), where the game is won or lost, that they might be the one to lose it and so they go into their shell and forget what made them competitive in the first place: their run, their ridiculous handballs, their testicular fortitude to take the game, and their opponent on, and with that mindset they give the upper hand to the opposition.

It might be youth, but I think it's a lack of belief.

They put up a good front, but I reckon if Dr Lightman (off Lie To Me - great show) had a chat to them he would see a group of fellas who don't think they are good enough to win games of footy.

[mo64 5,209]

No Goals in the second half and no goals in the first half against the Crows.

Clearly our fowards are the problem.

Never will win if you cant kick enough goals.

We dropped our most potent forward (Robertson) because of the deficiencies he has with the defensive aspects of football. Kicking goals is not a priority with this team. Stopping the opposition from kicking goals seems to be our no. 1 priority.

We are a team that fundamentally plays negative football.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We dropped our most potent forward (Robertson) because of the deficiencies he has with the defensive aspects of football. Kicking goals is not a priority with this team. Stopping the opposition from kicking goals seems to be our no. 1 priority.

Robertson would have been handy, but I'm not worried about dropping him as I am sick of watching him carry on all the time and play for free kicks. It's just disappointing because he destroyed Scarlett a few weeks ago.

[1858 219]

We dropped our most potent forward (Robertson) because of the deficiencies he has with the defensive aspects of football. Kicking goals is not a priority with this team. Stopping the opposition from kicking goals seems to be our no. 1 priority.

We are a team that fundamentally plays negative football.

We missed him critically tonight. Without getting embroiled in the whole should he or shouldn't he aspect of being dropped, how bad is our forward set up when a player who supposedly isn't playing to the level required is so profoundly missed?

I know it can't be easy when you have players coming in and out of the forward line every week but does anyone actually think that Josh Mahoney has a semblance of a forward structure at the moment. I can't see even a basic interaction between the forwards. They all seem to be doing their own thing, trying hard but not making things easy that's for sure.

[Mono 454]

Robertson would have been handy, but I'm not worried about dropping him as I am sick of watching him carry on all the time and play for free kicks. It's just disappointing because he destroyed Scarlett a few weeks ago.

Ditto.

[Deano74 156]

We dropped our most potent forward (Robertson) because of the deficiencies he has with the defensive aspects of football. Kicking goals is not a priority with this team. Stopping the opposition from kicking goals seems to be our no. 1 priority.

We are a team that fundamentally plays negative football.

You got it wrong IMO, just our defence is playing consistent footy without injuries and continue to improve.

with a base of Warnock, Rivers and Frawley.

We dont have that in the forward line, either we have injuries, poor form and inconsistency.

The big thing is we need everyone in our forwards to have imput, not just a couple each week. We have some play well or have outstanding games, while others go missing, we need a even effort from all, then we will win.

[Carn dees 108]

Just watching the second half now as i recorded. Umpires are shoking, 2 of the so many exmples Dan Bell and frawley put on great efforts to chace and tackle and got no reward!

[Binmans PA 26,045]

Probably our worst game for the year. Based purely on persistent turn overs, poor decision making and general skill errors. Made even worse by the fact that come the end of the night, there weren't a whole lot of positives we could take out of the game. I was surprised to see Sylvia ended up with 24 touches, but he certainly didn't have the impact he had against the Hawks. He seemed to go missing in some portions of the game and it seems like a backwards step for the club, tonight.

Also, I think a few times we really missed Garland. His ability to get a fist on absolutely everything, no matter what the height of the ball, was just not there tonight. Warnock is probably our second or third best back behind Garland and Rivers. Tonight he played on their best forward and although he wasn't completely embarrassed, he was made to look ordinary on a couple of occasions. Granted, generally their kicking to Riewoldt was spot on.

Positives to come out of the game were, Bennell's solid all-round performance, Grimes' poise off half back, Sylvia's touches and even Jamar's game. The latter took some great contested pack marks, which saved us on a couple of occasions, he just can't kick. His tap work, particularly early on, was outstanding too.

[Doggo 32]

Is there any chance PJ might actually hit a damn target? He is woeful, utterly woeful.

And I'll say it again, PJ is horrendous. Can't dispose and gives away completely stupid frees. When Jamar is crapping all over you, you know you're in big trouble.

On a side note, can somebody please forcibly remove Paul Johnson? He has battled manfully when all our rucks died, but he is a completely terrible user of the ball and other teams know it. They let him get a million uncontested possessions which inevitably end up in their hands.

Jaded, your dislike of PJ is verging on Y_M 'Bruce-hate' proportions...

IIRC, PJ setup Frawley's goal with a magnificent 50m+ pass from the far wing that cleared the traffic in the corridor and hit him on the [censored]. Was a pretty good hitup if u ask me.

I'll admit his disposal wasn't crash hot today. But Jason Dunstall did make a good point during the call that we shouldn't be allowing PJ to be the distributor of the footy from the back half. Can't possibly blame PJ for making good position and winning the footy, so surely some of the onus must fall onto his teamates and the coaching staff? He's a ruckman. Yes he's quite agile and generally well skilled for a ruckman, but he's still a ruckman, and the times when he was playing loose in defence he definitely needed more support via a 'dish-off by hand' option.

You wouldn't let Jamar take those kicks coming out of defensive 50 without providing a handball option, the same really should apply to PJ also.

[Binmans PA 26,045]

IIRC, PJ setup Frawley's goal with a magnificent 50m pass from the far wing that cleared the traffic in the corridor. Was a pretty good hitup if u ask me.

I'll admit his disposal wasn't crash hot today. But Jason Dunstall did make a good point during the call that we shouldn't be allowing PJ to be the distributor of the footy from the back half. Can't possibly blame PJ for making good position and winning the footy, so surely some of the onus must go onto his teamates and the coaching staff? He's a ruckman, yes he's quite agile for a ruckman, but he's still a ruckman, and the times when he was playing loose in defence he definitely needed more support via a 'dish-off by hand' option.

I thought PJ did a couple of good things tonight, but a couple of those free kicks he gave away (blatant, pushes in the back- right in front of the umpire), just killed the team. He may as well have stabbed his team mates in the heart. Again, however his tap work was solid.

[Doggo 32]

I thought PJ did a couple of good things tonight, but a couple of those free kicks he gave away (blatant, pushes in the back- right in front of the umpire), just killed the team. He may as well have stabbed his team mates in the heart. Again, however his tap work was solid.

Yeah good call. Those frees were just silly and unneccesary. I know it stabbed me in the heart, so you can only imagine what his teammates and coach were thinking. Can't question his effort or commitment though- just lacking that bit of polish and confidence in his own skills to really hurt the opposition. When he's up and about, he is capable of some exceptional passages of play (like the pass to Frawley), but he just needs to find that more consistently.

Despite his turnovers and frees against, there were definitely some good signs as well. He wasn't "woeful, utterly woeful" as Jaded would have you believe, IMHO.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

We are a team that fundamentally plays negative football.

That may be the only interesting post so far in this thread since the game ended. I'm not sure I agree that we "fundamentally" play negative football though. A phrase that's been creeping into footy since the WC vs Swans days is "You can't win a GF without a great defence." And the longer I go the more I think fixing your defenders FIRST is the best way to go. Then midfield, then polish it off with forwards. Could it be DB is doing this? Get the defenders all set up and working well, (which he has, to a large extent, done) then move into the midfield and recruit like a nutcase. Then look at your forwards and make sure it's not your running mids and flankers doing all the scoring work. We may be playing negatively right now, but that could just be part of the plan. Works well for Lyon and the Saints.

Jaded, your dislike of PJ is verging on Y_M 'Bruce-hate' proportions...

Someone has to cop it. PJ is still playing good footy, but is making errors. Simple as that. I think he's going to be ripe for a bit of a spray from DB. There is one criticism I'll agree with from this week and that's that his free kick tally is a slight concern. He's giving away more than he's getting. As it stands right now he's 3rd in the league for frees against, with 18. And he has 9 frees for. This isn't criminal, but it's an indicator that the footy department should have picked up on by now, and I'm sure if they're not addressing it now, they will be soon.

The best thing is, we know he can play better, and the problems are very fixable. What would be of greater concern would be if he wasn't getting it at all. Personally I reckon if he had 4-6 weeks where he stopped playing the footy he's been playing since the West Coast game, then have him take a spell and bring Spencer in (you'd assume he'd be right by then). As it stands right now, he's in the side for good reason.

[Deemonic 7]

I can't believe I've just read 2 pages of comments about the game and yet there is not one mention of the fact we played the best team in the league at the moment. The Saints have built their year on defensive pressure all over the ground and we were going to crack at some point. We have struggled to kick goals against teams that play a heavy zone like the Crows so I'm not surprised we only kicked 6 goals. I'd imagine that Lyon gave them a serious bake at half time and told them to tighten up.

We look ok skills wise when there is little pressure but they fall apart against the very best sides. We are on the bottom for a reason. We are making process it's just slow. To lose by 6 goals to the Saints is a lot better than most sides have gone this year.

date='May 31 2009, 04:31 AM' post='233827']

That may be the only interesting post so far in this thread since the game ended. I'm not sure I agree that we "fundamentally" play negative football though. A phrase that's been creeping into footy since the WC vs Swans days is "You can't win a GF without a great defence." And the longer I go the more I think fixing your defenders FIRST is the best way to go. Then midfield, then polish it off with forwards. Could it be DB is doing this? Get the defenders all set up and working well, (which he has, to a large extent, done) then move into the midfield and recruit like a nutcase. Then look at your forwards and make sure it's not your running mids and flankers doing all the scoring work. We may be playing negatively right now, but that could just be part of the plan. Works well for Lyon and the Saints.

Someone has to cop it. PJ is still playing good footy, but is making errors. Simple as that. I think he's going to be ripe for a bit of a spray from DB. There is one criticism I'll agree with from this week and that's that his free kick tally is a slight concern. He's giving away more than he's getting. As it stands right now he's 3rd in the league for frees against, with 18. And he has 9 frees for. This isn't criminal, but it's an indicator that the footy department should have picked up on by now, and I'm sure if they're not addressing it now, they will be soon.

The best thing is, we know he can play better, and the problems are very fixable. What would be of greater concern would be if he wasn't getting it at all. Personally I reckon if he had 4-6 weeks where he stopped playing the footy he's been playing since the West Coast game, then have him take a spell and bring Spencer in (you'd assume he'd be right by then). As it stands right now, he's in the side for good reason.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Did you quote my post for a reason? Something on your mind?

[Goodvibes 3,596]

At one stage in the third quarter, Cameron Bruce marked the ball 60 - 70 metres out from our goal. He had 4 options. Firstly he could try to pin-point a pass to a leading forward. Secondly, he could kick the ball to the top of the square and hope for a Melbourne mark or a decent crumb. Thirdly, he could play on and try to create some 'run and carry'. Finally, he could chip the ball 15 metres sideways. He chose the fourth option. I'm not bagging Bruce for the decision he made but I found that one moment to be symbolic of where the team currently finds itself in terms of its development. The player he passed to was Bennell, who immediately played on. By taking the game on he immediately created some space. He attempted to interchange handballs but his final handball went slightly astray. The youngsters in this team have confidence and class but just aren't there yet. In a couple of years that Bennell handball will find the target and create a goal. Some of the older leaders in this team are playing very very safe football and that is a completely natural response to being a member of a team that has won very few games over the past 3 years.

[FC Melbourne 107]

Have all the round media if interested.

http://fcmelbourne.com/tags/round%2010%202009/

[heartbeatstrue 57]

The third quarter will tell us everything we need to know about whether we are any chance of winning this.

And? What did we learn... ??

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I didn't comment on the Robbo issue and dropping him, because in essence I agree with the decision, however I would just like to make two comments:

2- You can't drop the only, and I repeat, only deep forward we have capable to taking marks and kicking goals consistently, and not even attempt to find a replacement

How many times did we go inside 50 to nothing? Either play Green out of the square, and have our midfielders kick to him on the lead, or play Martin at FF and bomb it long. Jamar and PJ are not forward targets.

And finally, we will continue to lose, competitiveness or no competitiveness, until we can eliminate the completely unnecessary amount of ill-directed handballs and start winning some contested footy on the back of long kicks (taking a mark one on one seems a completely foreign concept to us, and it goes back to my second point in regards to Robbo).

On the plus side, I thought our backline was brilliant under constant siege and Grimes (and Maric and Bennell) will be a star!

Good points, agreed.

As I've been saying, Miller is not a replacement for Robbo, he needs space up the ground, to win one-on-one and deliver to leading marking forwards in the goal-square. What happened at Carrara was unfair on Miller, imo. Like Jaded said, "You can't drop the only, and I repeat, only deep forward we have capable to taking marks and kicking goals consistently, and not even attempt to find a replacement". Ultimately selecting like that will take its toll on the players up the ground because all their huge effort goes unrewarded. Maybe that is even partly to blame for the last half?!

Agree Maric has come a million years since his first tentative game a few weeks ago. Maric, Grimes & Bennell, GREAT PROGRESS!

[Deemonic 7]

No Dappa Dan. Just too early in the morning.

[grazman 6,431]

I'll be interested in seeing how many weeks Gardiner gets, in the 80s and 90s it would have been two weeks straight up even with a good record, maybe even as much as four with a bad one. I bet he gets only one week with an early plea for a deliberate attack on the head of an opponent that could potentially have left his with a broken jaw.

I actually thought the standard of umpiring last night was much better than against the Hawks - at least they let the game go.

There's obviously an issue with the midfield, but there's a bigger issue with delivery, obviously with such a young team there's always going to be problems with running the game out, but you can see where the game plan is heading.

[mo64 5,209]

You got it wrong IMO, just our defence is playing consistent footy without injuries and continue to improve.

with a base of Warnock, Rivers and Frawley.

We dont have that in the forward line, either we have injuries, poor form and inconsistency.

The big thing is we need everyone in our forwards to have imput, not just a couple each week. We have some play well or have outstanding games, while others go missing, we need a even effort from all, then we will win.

Our backline is playing really well, but how much help do they get from the mids compared to our forwards? You don't see our mids pushing forward to pressure the oppostion backs, let alone pushing forward to create an offensive target.

We defend collectively as one unit, but our attack is left to too few.

Our forwards are unfairly mailigned imo.

[Jaded No More 57,809]

Some of the older leaders in this team are playing very very safe football and that is a completely natural response to being a member of a team that has won very few games over the past 3 years.

Spot on.

Only Brad Green has adapted well to the new plan, and his field kicking is an absolute asset to us. He is one of the few who can penetrate the 50m zone with a bullet pass.

Bruce, Junior, even Whelan who I thought would adapt easily, are struggling with the run and carry style and make ordinary decisions time and time again. I know we can't just get rid of the only experience we have, which is valuable to our young boys, but we need to recognise that these guys are not part of the future. As such, both Junior and Whelan should call it quits at season's end, and Bruce needs to be a year by year proposition (as anyone over 30 should be).

Doggo, I appreciate your fondness for PJ, and recognised that he battled manfully in the absence of our number one ruck. However, to blame his teammates for his terrible decision making and disposal is just silly. He finds a lot of space because essentially he plays on no-one, which is a worry to begin with. Then he gets the ball and takes a bit of a run, which is generally impressive for a big guy, but then he runs 20 and turns it over 9 out of 10 times and the opposition rebounds easily and most often score a goal.

He was woeful last night in both his decision making and execution, and topped off an ordinary performance by giving away plenty of completely unnecessary free kicks.

I am not a Jamar fan by any stretch of the imagination, but Jamar came in yesterday after having missed most of the pre-season and playing just two games this year, and absolutely dominated in the ruck. He also made an impact around the ground doing what a big man should do, taking contested marks and moving the ball quickly by hand to the nearest target. His game last night reminded me why PJ will never make it as anything more than a third-option ruckman, because if your size lends itself to rucking but you are not good enough to be first ruck, your only saving grace is finding another position on the ground. Trouble is, PJ is not a forward option due to lack of marking ability, and is disasterous in the midfield.

Essentially, PJ is a midget trapped in a giant's body.

[H_T 2,941]

Good post Jaded. Good summary of players who are finding it hard to adapt. Agree on PJ.