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Usual drills Injury report from Dave Misson, as they were missing, Watts a groin issue and Kent a quad issue Spoke to the following Spencer, ankle is fine, has had a bit of back soreness so they are holding him back a bit Max Gawn should be back in full training in a week or so, Harmes has had Glandular Fever, knocked him around a bit, lost 3kg,intends to work over the Xmas break to catch up, Terlich another week or so, Vince New Year before he can test out the shoulder, Michie who has looked a bit down, had the dreaded gastro, really "drained" him JKH will be wearing a support on his knee as a precaution, getting better each session Tommy Mc has a hamstring tendon issue, nothing serious but they are monitoring it Jack Fitzpatrick is glad to be getting through his first pre season, diabetes now just part of daily routine Christiian Salem absolutely shattered that Man City scored two late goals to win in the Champions League, he is on a bit of a modified program HL is just easing his way back into it, just a bit of tightness My November flyer - Jimmy Toumpas Roos was not there so assume already on the Gold Coast or doing some last minute decision making, none of the recruiting department were there,, and you usually get one or two watching but Tommy Mc doesn't think his brother will still be there at 40, disappointed but happy for him, most players seem to think St Kilda will go with McCartin JKH told me that Nev Jetta is like an uncle and 'keeps him in line' Jeff Garlett is very approachable and very humble, complimented him on a nice set shot from the boundary he did and he shrugged it off, Nev of course couldn't resist and started saying that Garlett is going to win us a premiership The pics I took will be on my Twitter Demonpk, sometime this afternoon

This post is a textbook case of how footy fans make stupid character judgements based on nothing.I nominate your post for worst post of the day.

I've been able to spell TOMATO backwards since I was six. Now I own and run my own multi billion dollar business, have a Lear jet, a 500 foot long yacht, a 38 million dollar mansion, 503 staff, and 65 beautiful mistresses at my beck and call. OTAMOT. It's how the big boys roll.

For your argument I will give you the counter argument From Gysberts draft 2009 In the top 10 - Scully, Trengove, Morabito ( injured I know), Rohan, Sheppherd, Butcher, Moore. Bastinac, Fyffe and Lewis Jetta available with later picks Recruiters looking back - "Geez I wish we had reached" Interestingly, the 2010 draft - the informed commentators/journo's/TAC watchers did quite well with this draft - this draft has pretty much panned out correctly but it is one of the few that has. Here's an interesting stat for you From past drafts - from the top 3 Ill start at 2010 as it is not fair to judge later drafts as the kids are yet to really settle 2010 - Sam Day - showing glimpses but hasnt made it yet 2009 - Scully average at best, Trengove injuries and hasn't made it, Martin good last year but patchy previously 2008 - Watts ( insert comment here) NikNat - highlight reel stuff but consistent performer ? Hill - good footballer but consistently great ? 2007 - Kruezer ? Masten ? 2006 - Gibbs was great last year but has underperformed to that point, Gumbleton cruelled by injuries, Hansen - solid 2005 - Dale Thomas - a couple of really good seasons but injuries have plagued his last two years, Ellis - meh 2004 - this ones not too bad - Deledio, Roughy ( love him) and Griffin - I would suggest that Griffin good has been really good but he has been inconsistent and I am not sure that Deledio has been a fabulous no 1 draft pick. If you were also to retrospectively pick your number one pick - not one of the footballers who went pick one would get the nod now. So on 7 drafts what have we learned ? There was no reach in the top 3 and at least one of the three has not been up to scratch. So if the assessment is that McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw are in most "experts" opinions the top 3 for this draft expect at least one of them to underwhelm maybe even two....

I am pumped. This is turning out to be a bloody good trade/draft period for us. Particularly when you add Goodwin and McCartney into the mix. Go the mighty, fighting Demons. Bring on 2015. We're back. Almost.

There is a recursive error in the logic of this analysis. Top picks go to the worst clubs after their worst seasons. So a top pick starting their career often has to deal with substandard club environment/culture/facilities (relative to top clubs), instability in terms of coach (bottom club often sack their coach or just have), a dearth of senior leadership on the field to model on or be protected by. intense and unrealistic pressure to perform early and lift his club out of the doldrums. All of these factors come (in general) with being a top pick, and it's these factors that retard their development.

I think there's far too much focus on this leader stuff, especially when it comes to kids. Not everyone has to be a leader. Not everyone aspires to be a leader. Judd and Ablett jr just had to be because their football demanded it. Steve Johnson and Hanneberry types aren't/weren't what you'd want as a leader but you'd pick them every Thursday. Besides, I think every single kid we've drafted in the last 5 years "could be the captain one day" so Petracca, assuming the Saints are idiots, will have a hard time cracking a leadership gig in our team anyway.

Just caught up with this thread. You are a seriously sick fu ck Song. Keep up the good work!!

Roosy pretty much just confirmed that Petracca will be a Dee :-D

For those who are suffering from draft fatigue (and there are quite a few around) this is good stuff ~ Easily the worst AFL Draft preview youll read

agree with you entirely but would definitely prefer Petracca over McCartin - as you state, with Tyson and Viney we SHOULD be able to develop a 'big 4' midfield of genuine quality players, to me this is more important than another key forward. If we have a genuine midfield the rest will fall into place.. if there is no midfield we have nothing. Our backline is very solid and Hogan a potential star.. we also have some good secondary forwards. The midfield is the big key for us I feel. If the Saints call out McCartin I will be fist-pumping!

Rehab.

Come on guys, Roos is not implying anything about GWS with the Petracca comment. He has tongue-in-cheek declared that if Petracca isn't picked up by the Saints, we will. Gladly. If you can't read between the lines there then get a new hobby! He also mentions that Petracca, Brayshaw and McCartin are the best 3 players in the draft "at the moment", and that we'll be picking a combination of those two.

Petracca and Brayshaw is a HUGE win for the MFC!!! Both capable of playing majority of games next year with impact. Additions to team in 2015: Hogan, Lumumba, Gartlett, Petracca, Brayshaw, Frost. Quality, X-factor, scoring capacity, run, skill, and aggression.

glad its all been cleared up !!

Still think Petracca will be read out by the saints. Either way McCartin or Prtracca will both be solid pick ups.

F O R W A R D S !! easy

Seriously, after reading that write-up, there's no wonder the general football public expect these young blokes to enter the AFL system and dominate from the get-go. It's really just sensationalist dribble that only heaps the pressure on these kids.

We are not picking Wright, the top three are locked

Emma Quayle has just released her first round predictions and has McCartin going to the Saints at number 1. She has Dees picking Brayshaw at 2 and Petracca at 3. She is usually spot on so close to the draft.

Get him to spell the band "ACDC" - for anyone who hasn't heard it - google "Spell ACDC radio contest" - it makes me weep for the future of this planet.

Seriously he looks really good, his running is exceptional and he shines during the kicking drills, hopefully he can get through to March and start to show what a good players he is, they have told him to stop being so hard on himself and just enjoy playing footy....the Roos mantra

That's called being a troll, and a tosser. Bugger off.

It's a bad system we have and all clubs will continue to pick players who become busts ... no amount of development can turn a D grade player into an A or B grader ... Too much is blamed on the development side of things as well - it's as if people here have finally come to terms with the draft being largely flawed (and therefore a bit of a lottery) but need something else to blame. A bad system will produce poor results on a constant basis ... McLean - B grader at times Sylvia - Lazy Morton - just not any good Watts - won't commit his body Scully - is an average footballer (at best) Trengove - cruelled by injuries Hogan - hasn't played yet because of his back Toumpas - too early to tell and has had an appendix issue Tyson - so far, an excellent acquisition (I've put Tyson in because we partly gave up pick 2 for him) Let's just hope we have a bit more luck this time around. You put the above players into perfect systems and not much changes - in the end, it's up to the footballer himself to drive himself to be the best ... we've drafted a lot of players who don't possess that inner drive (and we didn't know that when we drafted them) All being an excellent under 18 player means is that player is an excellent under 18 player - the next big step is largely up to the player concerned.

Didn't WJ or another poster attend a session with Taylor and other recruiting staff and from that.. and it was effectively that the picks would be used on one of the three that everyone is talking about. Brayshaw, Petracca and McCartin. Mahoney reaffirmed it with a comment that it would be out of those three and Wright perhaps. I would imagine that with the structures we have in place in the football department, that the recruiting staff will be making the call on the list, not the coaching staff. I would be stunned if anything other than the three names mentioned above that the industry is talking about are not called out as 1, 2 and 3. The only interesting thing will be the order that this occurs. The main reason for this is that you look at the last x number of drafts, and the media has gotten it correct for the top 3-4 players called each year and thats even with GWS and the Gold Coast dominating the draft early. Even the relative suprise of Ploughman and O'Rouke by GWS was 'known' by the media. SImple reason is that as much as the AFL want to keep such things secret, there are a lot more people involved with drafting than just the players.... agents, friends, family, recruiters, coaches ... it's not that hard for the media to get a sniff in terms of these top picks... The draft evens out after the first handful of players, but the industry has been pretty clear that the top picks are a cut above for the last month or more... only players outside of the top three that would have been considered are Heeney and Moore who are both secured by the swans and the pies.

He said 'by your apparent definition', which is in any case sweeping and offensive to many of the posters here (or clearly intended to be). But, like Jack's original question about the 'Cronulla decision', the point clearly goes right over your head. That's not surprising. You intervened in this thread admitting that you hadn't read most of it but dismissing some/much (we don't know, that's how generalisations work) of it with your snide 'ambulance chasing' remark. Since then pretty much any comment on here that you disagree with has been met with borderline (sometimes not so borderline) antagonism. Just say what you have to say and forget about the strange ratio that you seem to have in your head that anything you say has merit only if it 'defeats' someone else. Whether you're an ambulance chaser or not and by your definition or not, you're certainly becoming a thread clogger with nothing to say that hasn't been said pages and pages ago. But you wouldn't know that because you haven't bothered reading them.

It's believed that Petracca 'failed' his second psychiatric test from the saints. Personally I think he will be still be a saint but his results were so low they think he has bats in the belfry. I don't put a lot of weight on these psychometric tests but I guess draftees become multi million dollar investments for each club and they should do their due diligence. However, to put these tests into perspective, Dayle Gartlett achieved '100%' last year and we all know how much of a straight shooter he is.

24 hours ago if you'd asked Melbourne supporters who they would choose between Petracca and Brayshaw most would say Brayshaw. 24 hours ago if you'd asked St Kilda supporters who they would choose between Petracca and Brayshaw most would say Petracca. 24 hours on with some quality twitter-driven rumours and Petracca is now viewed by Saints fans as the anti-Christ. It's a coping mechanism. October/November is a weird time. We wed ourselves to players, convincing ourselves that we're getting the right player regardless of where others rate them. We know so very very little.

That may be, but I would argue that there wasn't enough potential there in the first place. If saying that players 'not coming on is their own fault' is too easy an out, then equally the notion that 'some players have that internal drive to improve, and some don't' is similar an easy excuse. Surely you pick the players with the internal drive to improve? I don't blame the entirety of our predicament on our poor recruitment but I refuse to believe we would turn a Dangerfield into a Morton and vice-versa - which I don't think you would disagree with me on. We needed to have the best people in place, in a stable environment, with on field, experienced leaders...but we also needed to pick Dangerfield...

No problems. Benjamin Franklin once said, “Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see.” In researching the quote on google I found another beauty, "You can't trust quotes on the internet." - Benjamin Franklin I think most people get stung the the media/internet at some time.

The Clark/Landsberger Phantom Draft The Emma Quayle Phantom Draft The Brett Anderson Phantom Draft The Paige Cardona Phantom Draft The trend seems to be going in favour of the Saints picking McCartin and, as many have commented both here and elsewhere, we are going to end up with two of the best three young talents on draft day. We don't know how it will end up once the players drafted join their clubs but the vibe and the Mabo in me are saying it will be a good result for us. The ones we need to nail now are 40 and 53 and of course, a couple of handy rookies next week.

The problem with standardised testing is that it identifies standard qualities but rarely the exceptional and unique attributes that might make a champion. Would Robbie Flower have been identified as a champion? Or Jim Stynes? Or Ablett Snr? How do you test a young man for their burning need to succeed and prove themselves? We're playing in areas of consciousness that is revealed by wise and experienced heads following their intuition, rather than a bunch of statisticians with testing devices trying to come up with the magic formulae. Petracca appears to have the natural talent plus hunger and aggression to do very well. Fingers crossed.

Back to the draft then. The article does not confirm anything. "ST KILDA is expected to land blue-chip key forward Paddy McCartin ....... it is understood the 194cm goalkicker has got the nod over explosive midfielder Christian Petracca....... It is understood the gun Geelong Falcon will be unveiled as the No.1 choice..." Expected and understood are not confirmations. Good news if true in IMHO.

Glenfiddich will work well for either result!

Bitter experience disagrees with that...

If we get Petracca it's Reece Mckenzie for me.

Another thing I like about Petracca is that he also plays forward and is a big boy, this means he can develop in the forward line and snag a few goals for us with stints in the midfield as he develops, so if we lose out on mcCartin we still get some one who can cause some havoc in the forward 50 along side Hogan.

I'm tipping it won't be that good.

good lord.....

to be honest i'd never heard of colin wisbey until i read this thread - lol

I love that attitude, rjay. It's not a reach till history says it is.

So a "reach" is when a recruiter makes a pick that isn't in line with the wisdom of the phantom drafters. I hope like hell that they base thier decision and pick the players available that we expect will have the best career. Otherwise we are wasting a hell of a lot of money on recruiting. If we don't pick Petrecca then there will be good reasons for it.

Frawley - beginning of 2014 - handy footballer, best backman at the club, holds up our defence. Frawley - end 2014 - horrible butcherer of the ball with no decision making ability whatsoever and no heart. Seeing the logic now ?

Yet the whole Sylvia comparison is retrospective - you can make an assessment on Sylvia now as we have seen 10 years of him. Sylvia was absolutely driven - at 18..It just didn't last all that long. Sylvia suffered from OP in 2002 but was dominant 2003. Not driven ? 2003 he was a tackling machine ripping games apart. There was no knock on Sylvia at draft time about his work rate or will to succeed. He was described as a competitive beast. "Does all the team things and is hard at the footy - 111 tackles including 13 in a game give you some idea of his work ethic. He is super competitive and even when he is struggling with injury still gives his all" "Has been compared to Michael Voss and should become of the best players in the league within 5 years. Medium, inside forward/midfielder who is a tremendous tackler. Player who leads by example. Great work ethic and very competitive. Had outstanding 2003 season winning All Australian U18 honours, TAC Cup coaches award and Pioneers B & F Award" . I can absolutely see the comparisons between the two in the limited vision I have seen and they way they play. I hope if we take Petracca that he doesn't turn out to be Colin Sylvia. The major difference between now and 2003 is we have a development team in place who will hopefully steer the kids in the right direction both on and off the field. I wonder how Sylvia would have turned out under if we drafted this year under this current regime ?

now this is a REAL one

Glad to see you've done some research before answering my query and confirming that the term "Cronulla decision" is a complete misnomer. What you referred to was a number of deals cut by ASADA with players from various clubs who were involved in the doping programme in place at Cronulla in 2011, many no longer involved at that club. The sanctions were based on the co-operation of the NRL, the clubs involved and those players admitting guilt and they were ultimately given 12 month suspensions backdated to the conclusion of ASADA's report on the NRL (November, 2013) because of delays incurred by ASADA based on issues related to its general review into the gathering of evidence in anti-doping cases. The result was that some NRL players not involved in finals campaigns effectively received suspensions of three matches. Unlike the AFL case, the Cronulla doping programme was detected early and then immediately stopped by the club doctor. The Essendon programme is said to have lasted 12 months, involved waiver forms, thousands of injections, conveniently lost/missing records, delays, obfuscation and legal action by the club after an investigation that concluded in May, 2014. The matter has not been resolved by a plea bargain and is going to a tribunal hearing. Therefore, if the players are found guilty as charged, the "Essendon decision" should not be treated as analogous to the outcome of what happened at Cronulla. My likely result if the players are found guilty is anything between half a season to a full season and even that would not be consistent with some of the harsher penalties meted out to athletes around the world who also claimed to have been "duped" by unscrupulous coaches and support people. I also think your characterisation of those seeking harsh penalties as "ambulance chasers" is over the top. These people aren't arguing harsh penalties because they stand to gain a financial reward themselves (which is what ambulance chasers are all about) and while I agree with your sentiments about what should be the ultimate fate of the Bomber officials involved and the Essendon board on governance issues, you sound like something of an ambulance chaser yourself by your apparent definition in terms of those people.

IWS, please get rid of the apostrophe in vs......please? #doingmyheadin.

I wouldn't worry, I think you're copyright is very safe.