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in case no one seen this video.

I disagree. The group needs to be drilled and drilled and drilled on hard, boring, defensive footy. No respite. Once they've mastered it, then they earn the right to have the shackles released. Neeld should not take his foot off their throats until playing accountable, disciplined footy comes second nature to them.

The Weapon.

I note that after 9 pages the pro NikNat people still haven't been able to come up with any comparative statistics that support their stance. The simple truth is that Watts, despite playing in a truly awful side, is matching up very well statistically. The difference is that he is not a gigantic deadlocked black man and as such is not as eye-catching. Now, to those who sing his praises, I am perfectly happy to say that NicNat has the potential to be an amazing player. His speed, strength and athleticism are astounding, which is why he continues to make headlines despite his skill level. But therein lies the problem. His lack of games sense means that he rarely gets into space or spreads from a contest, so too many of his disposals are contested. His skills are abysmal. He still struggles to take a mark in his hands, he still struggles to hit a target by hand or foot. Much of this is mitigated by the quality of the personnel surrounding him, so he is still looking pretty good, but if he is every going to deserve the hype, he needs to drastically improve in both his ball-handling and game sense. In comparison, we have Watts. His skills are light years beyond NikNat's. His disposal efficiency is well above, despite paying in a team that regularly makes even the simplest pass into a clanger through sheer ineptitude. Despite the oft-repeated claims of some media personalities, he does have an opponent when playing on the HBF (or do people think that his man has dropped back to be the spare defender at the other end? Against Melbourne!). His style is far more subdued and as such less eye-catching, but his effectiveness can be measured by the very claim his detractors continue to make. They never notice his opponent, and as such assume there isn't one. Those of us who pay attention know that his opponents are rarely sighted because they can't get the ball. Obviously Watts continues to have issues he needs to work on. His core strength would be the primary issue for me. While he can and will beat his man to the ball on most occasions, if he is forced to wrestle or fight on the ground, he often finds himself outmatched. Greater core strength would help in this area. He also needs more confidence in the air. Despite his athletic ability, he rarely jumps for the ball, preferring to use body positioning, which is often beaten again by his lack of core strength with which to hold his ground. If he is to continue playing as a rebounding defender then this is the primary area he needs to improve. If they want to move him forward again at any time, the biggest issue will be teaching the midfield how to hit a leading player so that he isn't forced to wrestle against player like Rutten. All this goes to show that they are two very different players, playing in totally different positions in teams which are poles apart in terms of quality. As such, there is little point in trying to compare them. Looking at the statistics for both players, both for their respective careers and for this year, there is really little difference in their output. They have both had times where they have impacted the result of games, and far more frequently, they have both failed to do so. In all honesty, the only difference I see between them at this point in their respective careers is that one is far more marketable.

"What - me worry?"

Maybe I see things a little too simplistically. CS has presided over an administration that has removed our $5M debt - to get a true comparison- there are a few clubs that have tried the same "eradicate debt" campaigns and havent come close to what we accomplished. You can throw up how much of it was the Stynes factor but bottom line is CS was CEO during this time. We have re-aligned with the MCC and have new facilities and finally have spent money (wisely or unwisely remains to be seen) on a football department. We can put this down to sponsors, supporters, members, partly previous administrations but CS has presided over all this happening. Reading the criticism's of CS I note that he has not been criticised for his performance in administration matters but interferring in pure football matters. Jimmy aludes to this in his book. Simply put - keep him out of pure football matters and is he not very effective ? I'll have another go at the energy watch sponsorship. This witch-hunt reminds me of so many posts on here on drafting and retrospective naval gazing. People looking at this sponsorship after the company started to unravel not at the time we (and others) took the deal. Good thing Visy dont want to sponsor us as they have a checked corporate history. Lastly -as mentioned by others - that we have any sponsors is a minor miracle. Taking off our Demons bias - at this point of time what do you think that Mr and Mrs Joe Public would take more notice of- Kaspersky on Buckley's shirt or Neelds shirt. We are not only trying to get sponsorship from companies who may not want to get into sports advertising, we are competing against other sporting clubs who in honesty are a lot more attractive than we are. Sitting from the other side of the fence I can only conclude that he has done a good job.

Great bloke. Has bled red and blue for 6 years up until 2012. One bad year and he is gone. Rewind to the end of 2012. B&F club champion. He spoke about how you can play for the club or ^&%#$% off. How fickle we are? Is it a club ... or a business? Don't complain about Scully etc if you offload Beamer after one poor year. Aaron Davey has had 3 shockers !!!

Hazy, at the risk of being accused of not answering another poster's questions, I'm not going to answer yours (sorry Bob) because, quite frankly, I don't really want to pander to your unhealthy obsession over this subject. You claim to have provided evidence to support your arguments but in fact most of what you’ve given us is not concrete evidence but your own (negative) spin about the Board, Cameron Schwab as the CEO and their past record and achievements. You believe that accountability is paramount and that the Board and CEO are neither accountable nor competent; that they somehow stumbled on the club's financial turnaround of $11m by stealth or accident rather than by design. For my part, I acknowledge their achievements, recognise their flaws and don't deny there is a need for them to be accountable to the members. I simply don't see enough evidence to support your claims. There are other fundamentals at play that need to be emphasised in this discussion. The ultimate aim of the 18 clubs that make up the AFL is premiership success. To achieve that you need people who are not only accountable but they must also be united and loyal to the cause. In all of the years I've followed the game, I can't recall a club having won the flag when there was disunity within the ranks and I won’t even start with the perfidious characters who run off to media telling tales out of school that are often distorted and damaging to the interests of the club. Really, it's time to move on.

My old schooldays and MFC mate Ray is now fighting his biggest fight at the Alfred Hospital. In childhood, we would slip off from Springvale Under 12's football games and catch the train to Richmond to see our beloved Demons play. Saturday nights we would go play pool at Rockys, or kick the football down at the park. They were the days. Hang in there mate, I am coming up to Melbourne tomorrow night to see you. Love from BushDemon.

Dees love those skinny kids. Time to blow more good draft picks on skinny kids...

I reckon he is, too. Bit of psycho about him which I like. Very un-Melbourne-like.

mm:I will not be discussing any coaching position until next season.BR:I'm all ears.

Better trade off Clark, Jones, and Howe quick sticks!! They've all had good years, so we can't risk them being out of form next year. They're all "one trick ponies"... Clark ONLY kicks goals, Jones ONLY wins the ball, and Howe ONLY takes marks. They're all "flat track bullies"... I bet their stats were better when we won than when we lost... Oh and whoever wins the BnF should be delisted immediately cos we all know they'll suffer the curse and be out or form next year. We're much better off having no one over 20 on our list and winning the draft picks premiership every year. Go Dees! Top 4 on the draft ladder AGAIN! Woo!

Didn't seem to tempt him too much this year at Melbourne.

hopefully their is a bidding war for him to his value goes up and better compensation for us. then he ends up at GWS and points yells at them all summer and makes Scully cry. Im in that camp

Has been gone all year. His actions or lack of told me that. Bye.

After reading the many posts on this site and listening to some (a lot) of the media stuff I was getting concerned with how we were looking to rebuild the club. Listening to Neeld restored a bit of faith that he has the right approach, what that really means is he has an approach that I agree with, let's hope it is the right one. No Cloke as a quick fix, thank ... that was a beat up and use our early draft picks to get the best young talent. If the right player is available then go after him. It's going to be more of a build from within approach with a top up along the way. I think there will be a fair turnover of our list at the end of the season, up to 10 players could go but I don't think you will see us being as active during the trade period as many do. The draft and list development will be our way forward.

He knows I'm coming.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/speculation-mounts-that-strauss-will-quit-as-england-skipper-20120829-24zsg.html

***Newsflash*** Season 2012 for the Melbourne Football Club has been terrible. Ok, so I'm not telling you anything that you didn't already know. But this Saturday, we finally get to play the final game of our season, and can then look forward to what is hopefully going to be an active trade period, followed by the draft. But, before we look to far ahead, we have got 1 game to go against a finals contender. Now, before I start, I'm not saying we stand any chance whatsoever, and will predict a 50+ point loss. For the 2nd part of this season, it was made quite clear that a number of players are playing for their career, and as such, these players have been getting a fair run at the top level. I would imagine by now that the decision on those careers has been made. Early this year in one of The Coach's Office segments on the MFC website, Mark Neeld made comment about the different style that he is getting us to play this season, being the more defencive style, and learning some of those simple fundamentals of the game. The comment Neeld made was along the lines of "We've said to the players that the attacking part of our game is very good and we do it very, very well, but it's this defencive side that we are going to focus on this season". He told the players "Don't worry about our strength (the attacking side) at the moment, we'll come back to that, we just want to get some of these basics right first". Well, as this is Round 23, and as we the suporters have put up with probably one of the worst seasons I can remember in over 3 decades, can I ask for Neeld to give us something this game to bring us back next year? Can he please "release that shackles" off our players and just let them play an attacking style of footy, one that they can do well, and let's see some enjoyment on the faces of our players. I'm not saying that they shouldn't defend, but let's give us a glimpse of what 2013 could look like. Let's see Watts play at CHF. Let's see Jack Fitzpatrick play at FF. Let's see if Tommy McDonald can go with Pav (if he plays) for a whole game. Don't play Rivers or Garland up forward, they are defenders and that's where they should be played. Give Gysberts a recall and play him in the guts. What harm will it do? As I said, by now the FD will know who's going to get their contract renewed. "Freeing up" our players for the last game of the season won't undo all the hard work Neeld has put in to get these defencive structures right. If we have a bad result, which is on the cards anyway, it's not going to kick the confidence of the playing group. I want to see an unpredictable Melbourne outfit. The problem with some of my changes, etc is the fact that Casey are still playing, and we have 8 players eligible to play finals. They need Fitzy, especially given the form he is in at the moment. They would need Gysberts getting the clearances. But to be honest, and not meaning to be disrespectful, fcuk Casey, this is about the MFC. We need members, sponsors, etc, and based on 2012, it wouldn't surpise if these areas drop in 2013. Will the result in Perth this Saturday make a difference for 2013? Probably not. But for 1 week of this season I would just love to see our players playing with some sparkle in their eyes and enjoying the game that most of us dream we can play at that level. Edit - tidying up!

He might go to Port. It's the only job where Clubs don't interview coaches. The Coach interviews the club.

This isn't analysis, it's paralysis.

what is the etiquette for lynching actually ??

yes, one bad game. I don't care about previous years or the start of the year when he was recovering from a broken back. Since then he has been CONSISTEntly excellent. so stfu

You have to be quick to get ahead in this brave new world!

This is all very well, but Neeld is going to have to want him.

Reminds me of a great bit of graffiti i saw the other day. Fight apathy - or don't

We should definitely try and entice him. 3-year deal to be midfield coach? He's going to get three blue-chip youngsters to work with from the draft plus guys like Trengove, Blease and Gysberts. Royal out. Ratten in. Get it done.

I raise my Banana for all of us.

The most stupid post I have read this year, congrats!

The shackles that saw us have the same number of inside 50's as Adelaide? We have no forward line. IF we had Clark, if we had Jurrah, if Green wasn't past it, if Howe didn't have to spend so much time being a midfielder, if Watts could be a forward.... we'd have been a lot closer on the scoreboard in quite a few games. If only. Shackles Shmackles

Port looking to climb down the ladder then. Good luck to Moloney whatever happens, always liked him, but his time as an effective footballer is over.

i don't think there's any doubt about this P_Man You only need to look at the first quarter against Adelaide last week to see that we have the ability to move the ball quickly and efficiently. There have been flashes of it throughout the season and I think once the side is fitter and stronger they will be able to sustain this style of play - while fulfilling their defensive duties too - for longer periods.

He's a fan of Melbourne though... Why are you doing this? Let's take your conclusion to it logical end (or cliff); NikNat is better and will always be better than Watts. The end. It is just a hypothetical now, relevant only to the alternate reality that had the MFC take Natinui in that draft. In this reality it is an irrelevance. A decision made by people who are no longer Demons. This poll is just a worthless exercise in masochism.

Thank God we are not after Cloke. Boguns of the Scully order...

My favourite football memory. I was on the eastern wing with my Brother. The roar a few minutes after the match had finished when we heard on the radio that Hawthorn had won was unbelievable. My second fondest memory came a week later when Todd kicked that goal from the boundary at the beginning of the match and I knew we were going to win.

I belong in the camp of Beamer and our 2nd round pick for Boak. If that doesn't work, Beamer and our mid first round compo pick for Boak.

The top 8 is a big ask. But we'll probably be in the second 8.

These pretzels are making me thirsty

we should pick up this kid

Only if you agree with Happell which I think is highly dubious. Your response suggests that Freddy was right on the money four years ago. Well done Freddy.

That's if he doesn't snap in half before trade week. Seriously, he's the kind of character who would get run over by a bus while enjoying a picnic in the Botanical Gardens.. We have enough of those already.

*SMACKS FOREHEAD*

Phew! 2012 is not all bad after all.

Maybe I should grow a moustache.

Who's the leader of the club That's made for you and me M-I-C-K-E-Y ........M-A-L-T-H-O-U-S-E

Because, for some stupid reason, I still like to try and help the hopeless to understand. I should know by now that it's a complete waste of time, but alas, I'll probably keep doing it anyway.

At least he HAS one trick, better than most of our mids at present...

A young player gives platitudes and mindless cliches in an interview with the press? My god, how could he? I've never, in all my years of supporting football, seen a footballer do this. Ground breaking. Some of these kids aren't very good at speaking frankly in interviews. In fact, the vast majority of them aren't, but you can't just interview Jack Grimes all the time. Some of you really need to just learn which interviews you ignore and which ones are worth reading in to.

Actually I thought the knowledgable ones idea of playing Dawes in the 2's this week to freshen up was a good one considering the VFL season is over for Collingwood and they don't play again until 2013. Then again a week is a long time in football.