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This year blows we all know that. I'm as negative as the rest of Demonland at the moment as there is not much to love except for the little bald bloke who busts his gut every week and makes me want to go to games and he makes me proud to be a dee with his efforts every week. If I were any of the younger players who can't figure out what to do to become a good player I would follow this bloke around all bloody year. I heard how he was waking up every few hours to ice his calf when he was injured some weeks ago. Could you see Sylvia doing that? I Love your work Jones you can hold your head up high every week mate! So share the love if you want to. If not, I know it might be hard to find but if you dig deep there are some who to sack threads floating around. Disposal average 2012: 24.7 Kicked 14 goals and averages 90 supercoach points.

Melbourne supporters in Sept 07: "Bailey can get us playing finals again, he won't be the soft touch Neale was..." Melbourne supporters R1 08: "WTF!? Oh well, clearly ND & CAC have left the list in a shitful state. Time to move on the older players, blood some youth & rebuild through the draft to complement our talented youth in McLean, Bate & Dunn." Melbourne supporters in July 09: "Bailey needs to tank, his job depends on it. Scully will transform the culture of our club." Melbourne supporters R1 10: "FFS Bailey! We're not trying to lose games anymore!" Melbourne supporters R17 10: "FWGJAM. I don't see who or what can stop us becoming the next superpower now. We've timed our run perfectly, sucks to be Richmond or West Coast right now." Melbourne supporters R6 11: "Bailey has NFI. Look at his win loss record. Sack him, appoint Malthouse." Melbourne supporters Sep 11:"Ok so we didn't get MM but Neeld is the next best thing, our very own mini Mick. He's the no nonsense type that our group needs & won't be the soft touch that Bailey was." Melbourne supporters R1 12: "WTF!? Bailey & BP have left the place in a shitful state. We need to build through the draft & compliment the talented youngsters on our list. At least Neeld will give us the steely edge that was missing under that idiot DB." Melbourne supporters July 12: "I am really worried. We are worse than last year. I miss Dean. Neeld is only going to cost us members & send us further backwards." Amirite?

Reality is, it's more complicated than any one thing, and my pet hate at the moment here is all the "it's the ...... stupid" threads that embody the stupidness they seek to expound. It's not JUST the coaches fault, it's not JUST the players fault, it's not JUST the recruiters and development staff's fault, it's not JUST Bailey's fault... It's a combination of all those things and more. I know we all hoped Neeld would come in and everything would click, but it hasn't, and he's learning and growing just like the team is. Might work, might not... I'm not gonna tell anyone to be patient etc because I'm struggling this year as much as the rest of you, all I know is it's too late to change teams now!

I think you and others are looking too hard to find fault with the coach and his game-plan. Ultimately any game-plan is only as good as the players at your disposal. Neeld's game-plan is based on defence and accountability and we know through the reaches of time that flags have been won by teams with a strong defensive focus. When Cam Bruce was interviewed 12 months ago he was asked what's the main difference between Hawthorn and Melbourne and he answered that it was the intensity of the training. He said that there were a lot more mature bodies at Hawthorn which allowed the training loads to be far greater. Misson and Neeld were apparently surprised by how poor the overall fitness was at Melbourne when they arrived and clearly it takes a few years to change this adequately. Denis Pagan was considered a great coach by the North players and he won flags. He had terrible cattle at Carlton and the results showed. Barassi was a great coach at North and Carlton, but had terrible cattle at the Dees and the results showed. Alan Joyce took Hawthorn to a flag in the year that Allan Jeans was sick then went to Footscray where he had poor cattle and the results showed. In Malthouse's first year at Collingwood the list contained names such as Patterson, Baynes, Oborne, Smith, McKee, Jacotine, Kinnear, Wasley, Tuckey, Lane, Ukovic, Orchard, Adkins, and Dimmatina. There'd be plenty of players in that list of 14 that people have never heard of. Not surprisingly Collingwood came second last in Malthouse's first year as coach. David Parkin was twice sacked at Carlton, but in 1995 he coached a team to a flag that he has subsequently said virtually coached itself. Could he coach when he was sacked twice, or only when he had the talent at his disposal ? Alistair Clarkson won only 5 games in his first year and many supporters at the time were calling for his head. They're pretty quiet now. Some supporters on here think that we've got a list that is choc full of talent, but where games of footy are won, i.e. the midfield, we don't. I think the bare bones of the list are OK and can be quickly improved with some good drafting and trading, but right now our run and spread is virtually non-existent. People get sick of hearing it, but our recruiting over the last 5 years has hurt us terribly. Neeld and Co have an opportunity to make significant changes at the end of the year and I think they will. I know Neeld thinks the demands of the game are too great on young players, but I hope he holds his nerve and doesn't lose our opportunity to draft some exciting talent with picks 3 and 4. I'll understand if he sacrifices pick 12 for an older player, but not the first two. I think you get my message. It's hard to judge Neeld with the quality of the list at his disposal. Rather than focusing so much on the game-plan it's the list that needs dissecting. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken [censored]. You can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any. Coaches have known for 100 years that you need talented players and despite the denials of some supporters, we don't have nearly enough. Can Neeld coach ? I don't know. Is the list great ? Hell no.

I wont..Im sick of the whinging stupidity that comes on here at times. There are some who obviously have the brain power of a 5 yo on green cordial and then there seem to be a lot who obviously couldnt run a [censored] up in a brewery yet challenge those that actually know how to do it. I wonder sometimes is it out of jealously, pure ignorance, or some relative of the tall poppy syndrome.Some cant stand it when their chosen idol is lamabasted becuase the bloke simply cant play to save his life ( at AFL level ) and they take personal offence. It annoys me that some seem to have no life what so ever outside of following a football team they they have had any quality of persepctive erased from their sight. It annoys me that some cant understand that even if there were some major stuff ups over the last so many years , by many , that its NOT Neelds fault. Hes been here not even a yeasr. it will take a few seasons and definitely a 2-3 presaeasons to drum the new way into the new list ( or new form of it ) Yet some still think that because nothing is visible before them that its all bad and all going downhill. Its not all bad . Its a process, the battering balls and dozers are about to come in. The architects and engineers have been on the job for a while now. What will be just as amusing to me will be when we are starting to climb, are becoming the NEW Demons that some clowns will think and utter, "its about bloody time" without deference to the idea its been happening all along, just that they were too dumb or blind to see it. Go Dees

We can easily pick out half a dozen players who will clearly not be held onto at the end of the year, who are currently getting regular or semi-regular games, plus a few more who are 'touch and go' whether we persevere with them for another season, then another set that are contracted next year. We will cut as much as a quarter of our list a the end of the year, and that'll be from guys currently getting games. They'll be replaced with 4 mids from the first 25 or so picks, plus whatever selections we can get or improve while offloading 'unrequired' players, and whoever we can grab through free agency given that our salary cap space is going to open wide up again both this year and next as experienced, and some highly paid, players get the chop. That team will be Neeld's team. And despite becoming even younger (hell, we could be younger than Gold Coast by the end of 2013) it should at least be able to function to his plans. Sigh, I don't want to sound like I am super-optimistic or complacent. I really hate our current performances and they are simply not acceptable, showing clear lack of 'duty-motivation'. I think this is the core of the problem, the culture problem that just about everyone alludes to in their comments. Melbourne players past and present have been readily motivated by various things that are mostly personal. Whether it was glory, money, emotional circumstance, or simply the excitement of attacking football. But what is so clealy missing, over the course of seasons and right down to individual moments, is the motivation that comes from within, to improve, to perform consistently, to make the defensive efforts and the unrewarded running to offer options. That, I think, is what Neeld is working to generate. And it is also a known strength of Neil Craig's. So, for all the rubbish right now as players struggle to build their 'internal, duty-driven' motivation, I do believe in the future.

We beat Brisbane (15), Gold Coast (17), Adelaide (14), Essendon (8), Fremantle (11), Richmond (12), Port Adelaide (16) & Gold Coast (17). Repeat three times before over-rating our 2011 wins.

It makes me laugh.. It also worries me that so many have so little understanding of a process. Its like someone saying..i.e a builder. Ill build you a house., but more the point I'll build you a house where that dillapidated run down box of sticks and bricks is. Ill build you this house and it'll take me 3 years . Then people start getting sh!tty after i when there obviously had to be serious demolition and clearing of the site before any real works could start. Its a mess because you have to have mess, then you clean it away and start the build proper. I cant beleive so many of you are that f*^#ing ignorant of process. I have full faith in Neeld and the FD and the Board overseeing it. I have faith as I havent seen anything to suade me otherwise. If in a years time were still clearing the site, and no foundations are in place, then and only then will I think theres a problem. What Im currently seeing is pleasing to me. It means someones finally getting serious about a job that reuires hard decisions and a steel nerve. Something many of you obviously lack !! ya whinging bastards

I went to game and (yell me down if you want), the players that were out there, have actually improved! The guys ran hard, spread better and defended quickly. The captains went well, and JT has picked up a yard. Jonesy (goes without saying) Sellar was good, Howe is a star in the making and Strauss was very good when he came on. Bail ran hard, Blease is a beauty, Mac and McD did a very good job - Chip's best game thus far. There is light - but I'm a realist....list deficiencies.

can we get these types of threads banned? im getting sick of the constant THIS GUY SHOULD GO! really annoying and seriously makes me hate being a Dee's supporter with so many people wanting to drop half the club.

Gazing across the paddock yesterday afternoon, and seeing a team featuring the likes of Blease, Nicholson, Strauss, Spencer (the biggest player on the park, and the only one to not take a mark all day) and Tom McDonald, all of whom have played less than 20 games ... then visiting the "changes" threads where there are posts calling for the inclusion of Gysberts (18 games) and Tapscott (24 games) ... It's beyond me how anyone can consider mounting a critique of the coaching staff when around a quarter of the team is made up of inexperienced kids - not to mention the other quarter of our team who are only at or under the 50 game mark.

You just don't get it do you? Oh well, one more time... Bailey's game-plan was never going to get us to finals. He bred a team of soft, uncommitted individuals masquerading as a team. Neeld is working to undo that situation. Wait for the cull and the resurgence some carefully chosen fresh blood will bring. Patience instead of silly attacks on a coach in his first season trying to undo years of poor coaching and development.

You're kidding yourself if you think the current group are finals worthy, and we were never really in contention last year.

You are basing this on? Have you ever stepped inside the club, spoken to players or coaches? I have. I can tell you the vibe has been best I've seen for a long time all season. The only people who are upset seems to be fans on the outside. Inside the players actually seem happier than ever. Best of luck with your next line of assuming.

In the seventies and eighties when things were bad,the only joy we had was to watch another number two busting his gut and giving every thing he had week in week out. Funny how history repeats itself. Jonesy heart and soul of the MFC.

The more I see of the club the more I firmly believe we are going to be spending serious cash in the off season. It's a system built on results and the clubs supporters won't tolerate another youth policy rebuild. Neeld isn't stupid (besides what some here believe). He knows he's going to be judged on his record more so in year 2. I firmly believe that the most influential thing we'll do in 2012 is wreak havoc in October. That includes cutting expensive wood and shopping for genuine talent. The Mitch Clark experiment has proven the coaching staff right about our list. Expect big changes, and then let's judge more in the middle of 2013.

Bail has to go he is a butcher at his best

The Hawthorn team of 2005 had the following players in it (year drafted in brackets): - Hodge (2001) - Mitchell (2001) - Lewis (2005) - Franklin (2005) - Roughead (2005) - Crawford (1992) - Everitt (1992) - Hay (1996) - Croad (1997) - Bateman (1999) - Sewell (2003) Specifically, their midfield had Hodge, Mitchell, Crawford, Sewell, Lewis, Bateman, and Everitt. And, even with that midfield, they were still rubbish. Plus they had much better experienced players to help the kids. Now look at our midfield and compare it. Look at our experienced players and compare it.

Had three to half time and then ended the game with 3 goals and, 12 possessions, 6 tackles and 7 marks. A reasonable game but all of his goals came when it was over, but a goal is a goal. Still has my backing

What a drama queen you are. You want the baby without the labour pains. Sorry, it don't work like that.

We have no midfield. Without a proper focal point up front in Clark we have no passable forward line. Watts injured. And so on. What are people expecting? Most sane pundits expected as to get rolled by 8 - 10 goals .... and lo and behold we did. You can't polish a turd. In the off season Neeld will flush this one and start anew. I am so happy this change is finally about to happen at the club. We should all be rejoicing.

I'm not jumping on the anti-Neeld train, but this weekend is the first time in a LONG time where I've gone out of my way not to watch the game. Drinking is alot more fun without the misery of a Melbourne performance. We've become unwatchable by my reckoning. I'm just utterly tired of it.

I do have a doubt. He has repeatedly mentioned leading patterns and forward structures as if they are something that are in place and being used. However, all we ever see in matches are high bombs to the top of the square. Why do you have leading patterns if nobody ever kicks to a leading player? Are the midfielders not following instructions when they ignore the percentage play and bomb long instead? If so, why are they still getting games? If the instructions are to bomb it long to the square eery time then I have some very serious issues with Neeld and his minions.

We are bad, cause we dont have enough good players. Its simple really.

Haha. Why stop there tonotopia? Spencer and Cox are both tall. Spencer should be as good as him. Jetta is indigenous. He should be Cyril Rioli. Magner could be Bartel.... This is easy! Neeld has never said the list is anything. So that's just false. Are the dogs improving? Saints? Cats? Blues? Lions? Power? Gold Coast?

Apart from the part I've italicised, this post could have been written word-for-word about Bailey ca. 2008. "I believe in Bailey" has become "I believe in Neeld". The names have changed but the song remains the same. So far, both Bailey and Neeld both have a track record of being a good - maybe very good - assistant coach. And not every "very good" assistant coach can step up to be a successful head coach, as we found (though it took us the best part of 4 years, though there were ominous signs before that) about Bailey. I'm neither for nor against Neeld. I'm neither an evangelist nor an iconoclast. The club has no option but to continue to support Neeld at this stage, but if we're 0 & 9 again next year, if Neeld has managed to turn over the 10-12 players he wants and it still makes no difference, and if we're struggling to reach 30,000 members, who knows? But I am concerned that Year 1 of Neeld is looking like Year 1 of Bailey. We're in a "double-dip" rebuild. Which is high-risk for a club in our position. And it may or may not come off.

I think anyone sensible would have some doubt about an untried senior coach who has yet to deliver results. The point is it's too early to know. Is Sanderson the best coach in the AFL? Hey, it seems so! But maybe he's just got the cattle!

Come to think of it I would love a draw BUT only if both of them missed the finals by half a win with a higher percentage than whoever finishes 8th. Yeah, that would be nice.

I completely understand why some supporters wouldn't want to make such an early call on him, but I'm happy to. If I'm wrong I'll have to eat a healthy dose of humble pie. I don't see a quality AFL key forward with this guy.

Probably won't matter. Our midfield is just on fire this year, which is why he has been struggling to break into our side. He was only listed as 2nd best on ground, so I think we will have to wait another 3-4 weeks where he gets BOG in at least 2-3, before he can get a crack in the juggernaut that is the MFC midfield.

Quite simply I've had it with supporters saying how pathetic we are and how I've supported for x years so I'm leaving. Melbourne FC shouldn't be a leisure and for me and many other people on here it's a religion. No-one on here likes losing, but I'm not in for a quick fix either. In 2 years what will the Bulldogs remember from their 2000-09 years. Nothing because there is no cup. Prelims mean nothing. If I have an extra year of rubbish to get all the bs gameplans this list had been taught in the past I'll deal with it and look to the greener pastures. Your suggestion that we could trade Trengove just about gives me enough ammunition to comfortably say we'll be fine without you; but I'll extend an olive branch and say this. Instead on posting the problems lets start threads about what we are developing and moving towards because if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Go Dees.

These threads are becoming incredibly tiresome.

I managed to sneak down to training during the week, although I am a bit late I thought I'd give a quick report: Joel Macdonald and Stef Martin were doing some basic skills work, every five minutes a trainer would run out with a tub of Vaseline and apply liberal amounts on their hands Jack Trengove was trialling a new pair of boots, with lead stops and concrete soles. Much of his training involved no look handpass drills and making "grass angels" on the ground. Sam Blease and Brent Moloney did their training away from the main group over in the one-way back streets of Richmond. Nathan Jones spent the whole time in the gym, I overheard David Mission say they were trying to better condition Jones to being able to carry 21 players on his shoulders. Jordie McKenzie did the whole session sitting down, with only a limited amount of time available to train the coaches felt there was no point teaching him how to kick now. Matthew Bate looked to have his right foot heavily strapped, word is he used it twice in the VFL on the weekend and the club weren't willing to risk it again. Colin Garland showed good leadership, taking charge and leading the way in a "worst option available drill", Rohan Bail also excelled here. Jake Spencer did all his ruck work blindfolded. Colin Sylvia dislocated his finger after being told to "pull his finger out" for the 73rd time in his career. Cale Morton was the only notable player missing as he had tickets to the advanced screening of "Magic Mike".

I agree, it's a real concern. Neeld walks a knife's edge between working to a reasonable timeframe ( 2-3 years) and overseeing some more immediate improvement in order to appease members. Toughest gig in footy at the moment. Which is why I like him ... because it requires a tough man to do it. Really ... what could anyone do that would be different? There is no easy fix unfortunately.

Melbourne were ordinary yesterday against North. Can't skirt that issue. They were beaten routinely out of the centre, they were exposed by North's pace and spread from the contest, they were generally poor with their skill execution and had no functioning forward line. They would've been a better side had Clark, Watts, Jamar, Jurrah etc been playing and they might've been a bit more competitive. Would they have won yesterday with their best 22 on deck? Probably not. North are bound for the top 8 this year and Melbourne is a poor side that's having a horrible year trying to learn how to play the game again. Melbourne was not finals-bound last year and was never going to be this year, and probably won't be next year either. As frustrating as that is for members, sponsors and supporters, it is reality and we have to face up to that. None of this means that the club is not on the right track. They are debt-free, they have decent resources in the footy department, they have a good coaching panel (it's not just Neeld, there's 10 other blokes under him who have a role to play) and the players are being equipped with a game plan that will be sustainable in the future. The style of play is not very exciting at the moment and it's a stark contrast to the fun attacking style that Bailey's team implemented, but it is a work in progress. Some on Demonland are still failing to see that. Some elements of the plan need time to come together, particularly the players having a defence-first mentality (which takes time to develop if all you know as a footballer is the Bailey way) and elite fitness (which takes several pre-seasons to develop and we all know how far behind they are in this regard). Other elements you would hope that the players already possess, like solid foot skills, but it seems that some are not demonstrating those skills at the moment. The message is that Neeld and co can't turn it around in a couple of months over one preseason and it is completely unreasonable to expect a magic reversal of fortunes. They need time. I'm not necessarily backing the current regime in all the way (it's too early to tell), but time is needed to implement the new plan and the benefit of the doubt should be given to the Neeld camp for a bit longer. People will respond to that in different ways. Some will vent their spleens and microwave their memberships like they do over at Punt Road. That's ok, it's their prerogative as a paying member to do that and if that's how they want to express themselves about the current state of affairs, then fine. It's a free country. Others will keep the faith and sign up again next year in the faint hope that better times lie ahead. I'll be doing the latter.

Pretty sure you're aware that what I mean (about the similarities to 2008) is the exhortation to "keep the faith". Because we have no evidence that the changes have improved performance - so far. Since you brought up the issue of "assistant coach" ... The problem with an assistant coach who makes a contribution to a successful team is that they can over-rate their particular approach, and under-rate the contribution of others in the coaching team. Bailey probably contributed to Port's attacking ball movement (as he may be contributing to Adelaide's). But others in the coaching team contributed to their contested ball, their defensive structures, their set plays etc etc. It's the total contribution that makes success. But it's tempting for the assistant coach to believe that it's their contribution that made the difference. And unless they've spent some of their time as an assistant coach learning aspects of the game that the other coaches contributed, they'll only have one string to their bow. We learned that about Bailey, but it took nearly 4 years. We spent maybe 2 years waiting for him to bring a defensive and contested-ball dimension to the attacking game, until it became blatantly obvious that he was not able to. He has one string to his bow, and it may be that he's again making a solid contribution as an assistant coach with that one string. My concern about Neeld is that he has just about total emphasis on contested ball and absorbing pressure. But the club he comes from are far more than that. Their ball movement allows them to hurt teams the other way, and they have a number of successful set plays. Their contested ball is just one element of what makes them successful, but on it's own, it's not enough. Do we have any evidence so far that Neeld has more than one string? Haven't seen it - so far. Can he learn to play the other strings? Don't know, but obviously he deserves to get a reasonable chance to show us whether he can (and if he can't, I hope it takes less than 4 years to find out). Is he reflective & self-critical enough to understand & remedy his deficiencies? That's the big question, and quite frankly, that's what concerns me about the "my-way-or-the-highway" approach. The trick for an assistant coach is to learn the other aspects of the game that they have no expertise in. A head coach has to develop a well-rounded knowledge of the game, and it's reasonable to assume that a previously successful head coach (whether they're a head case or not) will have done that. So what I'm saying is that it's a risk to pick another assistant coach from a successful team, given the recent experience with the previous coach. I hope it comes of this time, but I have a lot of concerns.

I think this is a very good post Akum. However, I think the situation is actually very different now to what we saw in 2008. The one thing that gives me confidence in the new regime (Neeld) is that there is now a very deliberate and strong focus on the fundamentals: fitness, discipline, defensive integrity, set up, recruiting for specific roles etc. In short, the boring stuff that, if executed well, will ultimately translate into winning important games. Under Bailey it seemed to be all about getting high draft picks, getting 'game time' into kids, and hey presto - here's a decade of dominance. In retrospect, that approach seems naive in the extreme - but, in fairness, we weren't the only club to fall victim to this thinking. I think the Suns and GWS perhaps fell into the same category of thinking (as did many industry 'experts' at the time). Neeld is from a disciplined culture. He is trying to muscle a disciplined, professional focus onto a club which, in my time at least, has never had that culture. And that's a challenge. A very big one. He may not ultimately be good enough to bring about this change. But I'm bloody glad/relieved he's having a crack at it. The alternative is just too horrendous to think about. The incredible naivety I read from some posters about this on these threads is just frustrating in the extreme. Just because we had some 'paper over the cracks', pretty wins against ordinary opposition in recent years, doesn't mean we were working towards sustainable success deep into September each year. The reality is we were getting BELTED by the good teams under Bailey. Consistently. The AFL is a seriously elite competition. No coach can simply turn an unfit, inexperienced, bottom four list into a top 8 team in the space of one season. Surely everyone knows that. It will take time to turn this list around. Ironically, I think it will take more time than some posters here have patience for, but less time than the so-called industry experts think. Keep the discipline.

It's funny how every 3-4 years Demonland turns into a cesspool of excuses and people of faith. This club is truly awful. I certainly think Neeld should be held responsible, but then again Clarkson was awful in his first year at Hawthorn. Thompson didn't have especially awesome first few years at Geelong. Patience is key, but holy crap it's hard when you go for Melbourne. The problem is that you're always waiting for the same thing, and so the excuses are always the same. It's hard to accept these excuses over and over again, but when it's all there is, and a harsh reality, all you can do is shrug your shoulders, move on and hope for the best. Harsh reality, folks.

Interesting you bring up Hawthorn and Clarkson. In his first season the Hawks finished bottom four and he got roundly pilloried for changing the club's playing style. How does that fact grab ya?

By far the most damning stat is the one Ben-Hur keeps bringing up regarding our recruiting. Something like 17 first round draft picks in five years and not a star among 'em. Astounding ineptitude.

To have faith in a Neeld future I think you must have confidence that his long around the boundary, defensive game plan provides us with the best chance of winning a premiership. Watching the way Hawthorn are playing, it would be a brave person to say that the future of football is not a style which puts a greater premium of retaining possession and encourages risk taking through the corridor. To my mind the quality of football is only going to improve, so this is even more likely to be the method to win premierships in the future. Neeld has not adapted his thinking and we are still sticking to the same approach used by Collingwood to win the 2010 flag. This is my key concern and all the other issues with Neeld are just side issues IMO. Comments will be put forward that this will come later in our development and that we do not have the players yet to adopt this approach. However, I doubt any coach in their right mind would be so discouraging of taking risks and then do a complete reversal and advocate it. The recruitment of players such as Magner and Couch also indicates Neeld’s thinking on the future of the game.

i rest my case

Lol, I was wrong; you're deluded, and your anti Neeld agenda is clouding your judgement of our players and their potential.

For all Richmond's talk about having a great year, making the finals this year etc etc, they have only won 5 more games than us this season. I find this funny. edit- I would prefer for them to beat that peice of [censored] club that is Carlton though

It's depressing, I just want this season to be over. Collect our draft picks, maybe snare somebody half decent during trade week, hopefully Jurrah gets off and Clark recovers well. Bring on next year.

Clark back Viney and another (hopefully 2) gun mids injected into this 3rd world midfield Jurrah back (hopefully) Another pre-season into the team, injury free squad (hopefully) Look forward to seeing kids like Taggert, Tynan, maybe Evans show their stuff. There are things to look forward to. Without them I'd be without hope

I think Kangaroos are about 9 goals better than us with the teams that were put forward today. Today was about right for me to be honest. However, knowing what happens if you put forward an opinion that isn't backed up with reasoning I offer the following. 1) NM have had bugger all injuries this season. They have played almost the same group week in and week out. That's great for consistency and chemistry. The only thing they change is the 20th - 22nd player for form or match-ups and good on em. It's much easier for them to have a clear best 22, especially with a coach that has been with the group for a while and with ALL the squad to choose from every week. We, as a supporter base, can't agree on anyone beyond our best 7 or 8. 2) NM are playing confident football and they run to spots because they know they will get rewarded with the ball. They played in front at the stoppages because there were no clear, deep tap outs today, they were nearly always short and they were there. The only exception was Howe's 3rd man up that gave Jones his 2nd Q goal. 3) Life with a big, strong, mature key forward must be delightful. Not just to kick to, but to crumb off, to draw an extra defender leaving lots of space and also to be able to gt something out of the 'just kick it towards the goals' stuff (that we are so good at). 4) Etihad. The hugging of the boundary line stuff is so much easier when the boundary line is further away from the centre square. It really spreads the opposition. I think we try and spread them wide but just can't get it right. Lots more out on the fulls today just pushing it that bit too far out. 5) Experienced players can make in game adjustments because they have had more practice at it. We don't really have many that can do that. They still need to be told what adjustments to make which is why so many teams kick a string of goals against us before we can stem the flow. Midfield adjustments, positioning adjustments and match-up changes. We will get there but through the blind leading the blind really. Although I suggested to others that we would lose by 9 goals, I knew it wouldn't be a case of losing each Q by 2 and a bit. Having had the usual 1 Q blow out in almost every game, I have not yet made up my mind whether I prefer the 1st Q shemozzle followed by the gutsy catch up football, or the hanging in there to be blown away in the 4th. Wouldn't it be great if there was another option?

I stopped reading at "Andrew Jarman".

Yep, we should definitely be modeling ourselves on a coach and his underperforming team destined to miss the 8 for another season. FFS, maybe we should look at the top sides and model ourselves on them. You know, the ones that are hard at the ball and run all day and have great skills? Just a theory.

Top thread. I'd just like to add that Jack Grimes spent his time delivering pin-point chest passes to the few brave souls watching on from the boundary.