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The worst post i have ever seen full stop.

...blokes like Watts copping all the flack, despite clearly making progress. Then you've got a guy like Kruezer, who is consistently hailed by Carlton fans (at least the ones I know) and some press, as an A-grader. One of the most ineffective and overrated players in the competition. Though, as I tweeted Emma Quayle the other day, he escapes criticism. Then there's another guy - Bryce Gibbs - as soft as butter, but it's Watts who is under the microscope every time (apparently the commentators on TV were into him today). I'm not saying we can't question someone like Watts' development, but don't get sucked in by all the media hyperbole. All it demonstrates is a lack of intelligence and foresight. In Jack's case, the media attention is particularly severe. There's no doubt Jack needs to improve on his hardness at the contest, but his decision-making and disposal are usually right on the money. He is class and with the addition of toughness, his ability would be unquestioned. PS. Mods - I have no idea if this warrants a topic of its own, but I thought I'd share it, nevertheless. Edit. Spelling.

I hate the locker room - I only ever check the main board. Surely things like this can have their own thread instead of being shunted away on a board few venture to.

Yeah his contract is up at seasons end. Need to sign up. I'd be happy to see him offered a 3 year deal. He's our long term CHB.

You're not telling me we (18th) might get flogged by Essendon (2nd)? GET OUT.

Geez that's any oxymoronic post... Name all the players you hate and want gone from the club, but please don't slag off any players.... silly.

After beating the bombers and smashing the pies GWS will be a piece of [censored]. Dunn kicks 8,Sylvia plays unselfish reliable football and his efforts show his love for the game and his club,Moloney gets a stack of kicks, Watts knocks out two players whilst running back with the flight of the ball and after putting on 30kg Lucas cook stiff arms Scully so hard his black heart is smashed into pieces.

Pain? I'm going to the game with 2 essendon "mates." I use inverted commas because when they go to the footy they turn into arrogant w#nkers win, lose or draw. So I have 2 hours of listening to " oh how bad are melbourne, you'll fold in 3 years... remember 2000... when was you're last premiership again.... I can't wait to suck hirdy's di(k." And so on and so forth. If we are to win only one game this year, please let it be this game.

I'm going to go against the grain and suggest as few changes as possible. We were competitive for three quarters. That's two more than any game in recent memory. I'd make sure a thorough review of the last quarter capitulation is done, and each player is drilled about where expectations were not met. But then I'd reward them with a chance to make amends. This team needs some self belief, and large scale changes won't help that. Changes only made for injury or matchups (eg Green out if ribs rooted, and maybe Bartram in as we lacked speedy lock-down defenders tonight).

Don't want to make an outrageous and unjustified call like the poster has here but I'm sorry this is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen. Has been one of the positives over the last year!

I'm eyeing this match with more trepidation than I have for as long as I can remember, the outcome is uncertain and the consequences of a loss are unpredictable.

If Newton can survive on our list for 7-8 years I'm sure Watts will still be there in another 2 years.

I think we are developing well. experience is a killer. Blease played what his 8th game yesterday? he looks ok he may look pretty good in his 58th

Isn't that Viney's role? He is respected as an assistant coach, and now is in the area of youth development, and has seen a lot of these kids play from an early age while he was watching his son. He also has a strong insight into their character that most head recruiters wouldn't have access to. He was in Europe with the team underthe guise of being there to support his son, but No, he hasn't been a recruiter before, but that doesn't mean he can't spot talent and doesn't understand what qualities make a kid capable of developing into good player. In fact, his development role gives him a bloody good insight. I don't see why you have so little faith in him.

Out: Sellar, Dunn, Moloney, Green In: Martin, Bartram, Morton, Couch

we played some great footy at times and we showed a lot of heart and character. I think Neeld is getting somewhere. Wiser heads realise that the last quarter created a margin that was not reflective of the contest, as we could well have been in front at 3QT if not for the usual blunders gifting goals and some poor misses at goal. Taking Green out, our average games played today was 52. GC and GWS averaged 41 and 40. If they took it up to the Blues for 3 quarters everyone would be blowing smoke up them. It is easy to forget we are still a very young side and that's the main reason our concentration and fitness got us chopped up in the last. It is hard to cop that Sylvia, Morton, Davey, Jurrah and Moloney are giving so little, when they should be amongst our best, and if they were we would be winning games like that. Individually I was pretty pleased with youngsters Blease, McDonald, Bail and Grimes which is heartening. Trengove showed a bit for a bit. Oh and people bagging Watts today are fools. 34 touches last week and a fairly decent crack today. Get off his back.

Clubs sack coaches when things go wrong with the teams performance and the board lose faith in the incumbent to resolve the issues. A new coach is appointed amid much fanfare. The fans, desperate to move on from the previous years pain, buy into the new dream with gusto. The new coach gets a honeymoon, he rides the hope while saying "lot of work to be done", etc... we expect to rise. The coach knowing he's got a honeymoon with players and fans alike launches into the changes that he believes will bear fruit in his time. This is the cycle and half smart coach is aiming for, to peak when his contract is up for review. So Neeld, is laying the foundations for finals footy, he knows that in 2014, the last of his current contract he needs the team to be heading up the ladder and into September to be certain that his tenure at Melbourne will continue. So the plan is plain... Year 1 - Drive change hard and deep, teach and test all the players under the desired game plan. Move on those who won't help, recruit those who will. Recruit young Midfielders Year 2 - Maintain standards, teach, develop and stabilise the group in the desired structure, roles and plays. Target recruitment at immediate needs to fill unexpected gaps in list. Year 3 - Repeat year 2 with greater results. Target to peak toward the end of the season. Get contract extended by two years in July when Melb sit 11 - 3 in third spot on the ladder... Thoughts? (aside from the obvious wishful thinking)

Let's forget the last quarter for a moment. For about three quarters - minus maybe 5 minutes in the 2nd quarter - we were pretty competitive yesterday. We tackled hard and make Carlton earn every possession and we created uncontested play through the centre of the ground. In my eyes this was the best of Neeld and Bailey coming together. Neeld has taught our players to win the hard ball, Bailey taught our players to capitalise on uncontested football through fast handpassing and running through the centre. While we lack the ingredients of a premiership engine room (Moloney, Jones, Magner etc. will never be Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas, etc.) we do have some silky skilled players who thrived under the Bailey era. I think of Daniel Nicholson (I forgot how good this guy was), Sam Blease (as soon as this guy starts putting those running shots on goal on line, he will be a star) and Rohan Bail (just never stops). Bennells not too bad on his day either. In other words, I don't think the Bailey era was time wasted. If Neeld can develop guys like McKenzie, Trengove, Tapscott, Gysberts, Tynan and even Morton into hard-at-it ball-winning midfielders (still a long way off, I know, but I'm assuming this is the long-term plan) I think things will start clicking pretty quickly. With Clark (and Jurrah?) focal points up forward, I think the attacking side of our game will come naturally as soon as we can get all the defensive stuff down pat.

Im with you on this dee man. I felt so much better watching the game yesterday and felt I could really see where we are going. I remember the last few times we've played carlton where we just got smashed in the physical elements of the game. Made me cringe. Not yesterday. Not until 3/4 time anyway. Yes Carlton were missing players. But we were also missing (from our supposed pre season best team) Jurrah, Davey, Slyvia, Green. In Feb I would have thought they were all big outs. Bar (hopefully) Jurrah the others are probably not returning now so we're rebuilding. We ran out of legs playing such an intense brand of footy...but that wont be the case for too much longer. Mc Kenzie was awesome on Judd, Nicholson, Watts, Blease, Frawley, Bail, Jones, Mc Donald...I KNOW we lost but honestly I think I saw the first sign of dawn after a long dark night.

Attended several training sessions over april can tell you that carrying injury imo as was put thru several tests before being able to join main group on occasions and rarely did whole session. Tests involved short bursts of running and had no explosion. Also gathering ball off deck turning sharply and stab passing either foot again couldnt balance and hit target very unlike trengove. And as previous poster said think luke ball and judd like in terms of playing nowhere near optimum levels but no further damage could happen. I say just rest him fully and modify training for him like pies did for ball. Was same for frawley over april hardly trained with main group.

I don't understand why anyone would write a 'making the call', 'he won't make it' type of post. More big noting themselves about their so-called predictive ability than making any useful contribution to a discussion.

I dislike Essendon

Did you consider that Neeld's gameplan isn't being tweaked as such, but is just following a staged implementation? Get the defensive work up to an acceptable level, then focus on switching the play and running through the corrider. FWIW I think that when we see Neeld's gameplan fully implemented, that we will play a Collingwood Gameplan when the opposition has the ball (The defensive gameplan) and a Geelong Gameplan when we have the ball (The offensive gameplan). Once were fit enough opposition teams will find it hard to combat both of these in the space of one game, and we will be able to cut through opposition zones. (This all requires our players to improve over the next couple of years though).

I love Trengove as a player, which is why I'm disappointed by his output. He's averaging less disposals, marks and goals than when he was an 18 year old in his first year. But more importantly, he's not hunting the footy. He reacts, he doesn't initiate. In his first two years he hunted the footy. We're playing one-on-one footy around the stoppages under Neeld, which I like, but I'd like to see Trengove allowed to use his instincts.

I agree Dee man. There was a definite change in the way we were moving the ball from the early rounds. It was more reminiscent of how we moved it under Bailey rather than simply kicking it long down the line. Hopefully this continues to happen in the future because at times over the last two years, we have moved it as well as anyone. The intensity and pressure that we played with in the first quarter against Hawthorn and in the first three quarters yesterday is what I would call the Neeld factor. We actually put really good sides under pressure and even bullied them a bit. I see genuine cause for optimism. It's just a case of doing it consistently.

Just out of pure boredom I thought I might give you some feedback as to why these ideas are absurd: He's barely played, and struggled when he has. I know beating up on Watts is fashionable and he's got issues with the contest, but you're kidding if you think Cook can't be worse. He can, and would be worse. You're messing with an area of the ground that is working just to squeeze in a personal favourite. I've said a few times now that when our defenders are dealing with a reasonable level of pressure (as opposed to the outrageously unreasonable level we've seen recently), they'll look just fine. Lo and behold, this week the midfield worked hard for three quarters, and suddenly Rivers, Frawley, McDonald, Grimes and even the bog ordinary Dan Nicholson had good to excellent games. As for Petterd - there's definitely a spot in the side for him: Lynden Dunn's. Come on, that's setting the bar ridiculously low and he's not meeting it as it is. If he can't oust Dunn for a spot in the side then he's not worth a cracker and should both will be on the heap at the end of the year. I want Petterd to make it, but he has a hell of a lot of work to do before he waltzes in to the side. To what end? He's not getting near it as it is, so push him further deep where he's even less exposed to the footy. I love his hardness but at the moment he's not offering much else, I really can't see him offering salvation to our small forward problems. Grimes has been, is, and will be fine. He occasionally butchers the ball, but he adds so much more that he's easily a net positive. As for Trengove - if he's labouring then he needs to be rested. I can't see his current issues being solved by time in the VFL. There's a spot in the midfield for a tall like Martin, it's called "the ruck". We've seen he can effectively play as a true midfielder with the ruck responsibilities. If he was playing well in his time in the ruck, there's no reason why he couldn't be afforded more time in the middle, but to date he's been crap and crap up forward as well. He's no worse an option than Sellar though. This is just hot air and won't accomplish anything other than give the bottom feeding journos more stuff to talk about. The players who are struggling should be aware that they are and it doesn't take a lot to join the dots and see where your career is going. It might make you feel better if Neeld did that, but it carries all sorts of risks and adds nothing to the process.

Positives - Some of our kickouts from fullback were able to find targets out wide, and fully utilise the leg speed of Bail, Nicholson and Blease. We desperately lacked this pace in the first part of the season Defence still holding up relatively well. Even though Betts kicked a handful, Garland beat him numerous times in the 1 on 1's. A lot of his opponents goals were not his fault. Frawley found a bit of form with rebounding, and Rivers was again good.How Hampson got in the best baffles me. McDonald improving with confidence each week. The improvement of Watts, Blease and McDonald. Calls for Watts to be dropped are narrow minded and sensationalist. Plenty of players made mistakes in the heat of battle yesterday. McKenzie on Judd. Did a great job on him, only letting his guard slip, as all the rest did, in the last quarter. Negatives- The continual anonymity of Moloney and Trengove. These are the guys that won our B&F last year and our captain. Robinson. Always plays well against us, and always sucks our players in with his antagonising. Jamars continual decline in influence, 2 kicks for the day, this guy was all Australian 2 years ago. His kicking for goal seems to lack the penetration and accuracy he once had also The last quarter. for obvious reasons. The continued slavish obedience to kicking it backwards across defensive 50 to try and free up the man to run the ball down the wing, when players are flapping their arms on their own in the middle of the ground. A bit of discretion and common sense to deviate from the gameplan is required at times. Jones, Watts, Frawley the chief offenders here. Howe. Only had three touches after quarter time. Simply not good enough. Wasnt helped by dumb play by Tapscott who leapt backwards to spoil what wouldve been a great mark. Aaron Davey. Barely noticed him today, was he even out there? I blame him entirely for this loss. The lack of crowd. Doesnt matter if it was an away game, 28K for two Melbourne teams is awful.

It's not so much as love for Martin, it's hate for Sellar!

What's all this love for Martin???? Hasn't played for 3 weeks and was insipid when he did....Also waving at the camera when your team is getting thrashed was not a good look

He's been like this all year. Reeks of OP to me. He has no power in his running, can't accelerate, and can't kick. Hallmarks of OP. If he can't run, he shouldn't be playing. He's not influencing games at all. Can't actually think of any game where he's been at his best.

We are hamstrung by Casey's draw - no games in the last 2 weeks. I'd like to see Davis in, but he's a defender and we defended well for 3 quarters yesterday. I'm not sure who would go out for him. What does Moloney want to do with the ball when he gets it? I have no idea. If he can't bang the ball onto his foot (with no intention to kick it to anyone in particular) then he plays this funny game where he holds the ball close to his chest and tries to wrestle past 3 opposition players. The best case scenario is another ball up. No wonder we got smashed at the clearances - he's playing the wrong code!!! He should be playing for Melbourne Storm. He needs to watch Pendlebury and learn how to keep his arms free in the tackle - and learn to handball!!!! Sylvia has the same issues. They think they are supermen.

If injured, don't play him.

The Good: Tom McDonald - this guy is going through Frawley-like improvement week to week. Jared Rivers - played really well on a guy 15cm taller than him; won out nearly every time. James Frawley - played well as always. Sam Blease - taking the game on Dan Nicholson, Rohan Bail - very raw, some big clangers, but were mostly very constructive Jordie McKenzie - good job on Judd. Mitch Clark - nuff said. Our tackling was excellent - Tapscott, Magner, Jones in particular. The Bad: Jack Watts' attack - not good enough matey. Colin Garland - if you're playing on a lightning-fast small defender, as you often do, stay the %#&@ down. Jeremy Howe's goal-kicking. I got canned 4 weeks ago for calling him out on this; it's deplorable. Mark Jamar around the ground. Little every week. Jack Trengove's 2 possessions up til half time. The Ugly: Jamie Bennell James Sellar Lynden Dunn Brent Moloney The team going so much better when Sylvia, Davey and Bartram aren't in it.

For the sake of stability I want to see minimal changes. Martin is still probably underdone although I see him as a step up from Sellar. Barty comes in if fit and Green goes out if not fit.

It's not just Trengove though - can't remember who, but Watts got burnt off by someone he shouldn't too, and it wasn't from lack of desire. He was trying to get there. I think it's got a lot to do with the players getting smashed in training during the week still. The load on their legs means by the 3rd quarter they are dead out there. Didn't Neil Craig experiment with smashing his players at training during the season, then easing off sonthey were fresh for finals? I've got a feeling we'll be very fresh for our much easier run in the second half of the season.

Soo sad to see because he's my favourite player and I thought he showed a lot in his first two seasons. I don't think even the MFC make someone captain for no reason. Is painfully slow and can't kick more than 30 metres. Reminds me so much of Luke Ball playing when he had OP.

Sellar should stay until Martin is ready. I want to see Clark play 100% up forward, and will cry like a girl if he does a knee or similar playing second ruck. Regarding Moloney, when watching the game, I though he and Jamar were trying hard, even though it hasn't been gelling for them this season. I think we need these two working their magic again, if we are going to be competitive in the middle. I'm willing to persist a little longer. I read this quote on MelbourneFC later, and if is to be believed, it looks like Neeld agrees. Neeld is not 100 per cent sure how to kick-start Moloney but he defended the midfielder's work rate. "He's working really hard and eventually those things turn," Neeld said. "It's not work rate, effort or a lack of trying. He's doing all those things. He's just not in great nick." That said, if he went out for Couch, you wouldn't hear me complain.

Can't agree with you on this one mate, unless it is the senior side winning. He is a class above at VFL level and won't gain anything from playing out the year there, win or no win. Keep him working from defence where he is now and the experience earned will be invaluable. If a player spends too much time at a lower level they tend to adapt to that level, this is not what we want.

I'm over these threads. The kid is clearly trying his hardest and is coming along. If your a supporter then support. This is helping no body. If however you want to make dumb arguments about Nic Nat you are free to go barrack for the WCE. Go Jack! Go the Dees!

With the easier opponents we'll get more freedom and opportunity to implement our gameplan, and gain confidence in it. We'll lessen the training load and the wins will come. I bloody hope.

Agreed. I've started to vehemently defend Jack at games. So called opposition fans love sticking the boots into him, but it's the Melbourne fans it really annoys when I champion for him. I encourage all our supporters to applaud him every time he does something good. I think you'll see he's coming along well. Also I think some people need to understand his strengths. He's not a pack splitter. The club hasn't developed his body for that. The fault lies with the club if they wanted him to be that player. If you don't agree go and have a look at Buddy Franklin in the U18 championships. He's a scrawny little kid. Now he's a giant. Jack is being bred for something but I think it's changed a few times since he was recruited.

From a neutral point? are you kidding every man and his dog want's to put the boots in to us, we are a National Sport so it's fashionable to bag us, this is just drivel from the mouths of idiots that have no idea.

It's another Saint, BJ Goddard, that I think he will emulate. -Picked number 1 in the draft in '04. -Much maligned by supporters and media for his first few years. Considered talented but soft. -By '09 was one of the best utilities in league, a Brownlow favourite and an All Australian. -In '12 is now a dual All Australian, should have won a Norm Smith, and every team would sell Judd's grandma for him when free agency kicks in. He is tracking perfectly so far ...

I'd say he made three poor decisions today and one poor effort at attack on the footy. Other than that, I saw him tackle, I saw him deliver pin-point-passes all over the shop and win a couple of clearances. He was definitely in or top 5 or 6 today. In a half decent performance and effort from the team, that is a good sign. Of course, he still a long way to go, but that is only a testament to his upside.

A few things. - Blease will make it, the kid is a star and it's great to finally see him strut his stuff. - We desperately desperately desperately need Strauss back. He provides a surety to our kickins that noone else does. - Beamer doesn't give a [censored]. Seriously, to jog across the square like that when you have space to lead into is a no go. See ya later. - Bennell, poor. - McKenzie one of the better taggers running around. - Bail's first half was superb, pity he blew up so badly. Also that kick over to Watts was AWFUL. - Tapscott cared more about trying to get reported than going for the pill. - JT, better. - JG getting touch back. - if you can purge the final term from your memory, we were pretty good. - I think about 15 of them blew up at once five minutes into the 4th

he was and he looked great tonight. His stats dont show what he did. A few times he was in smart spots and had things gone differently would have been able to apply scoreboard pressure. Opponents are also intimindated by him. he shoudl be in our side every week.

In 2010 we had a great back line...one of the best in the comp. Wellman goes, Royal comes in and it goes downhill. Last year our midfield wasn't awful; we had some good games and some bad games. This year, Royal takes over the midfield coaching role. Now we have NO good games.

Stupid thread and OP. Couple of efforts today were weak, otherwise he was pretty good. The guys is barely 21. How about having a crack at any one of Jamar, Moloney, Frawley, Garland, Sellar, Bennell, who are older and were far worse today. Get a grip, this Watts bashing should have passed by now and this thread is as weak as the 2 poor efforts by the man himself today.

Q: What did one braincell say to the other braincell? A: "It's lonely in here."

McDonald is a ripper and will be better then all our first round picks. Well done mate hold your head high.