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Hope you get to read this Neeldy. Coaching is a real tough job, dealing with media, supporters and co. The MFC unfortunatley is a mess. We as passtionate supporters/members are completley fed up with CRAP this club has dished up since 1964 in particular since 2008. All of us are sick of being bagged for supporting this club because for too long it has accepted mediocore performances. Not too mention some players seem to be enjoying this Nightclub scene a bit too much and not working hard enough on the field. Since your appointment i and sure many other passionate supporters have being taken by your no nonsense/ hardline approach on footy. As you know most of these players havent being worked that hard in the past. People cant expect you to put this side into the finals especially if certain players arent sticking to structures or working hard enough. This year is going to be real tough on everyone particularly yourself. We all hate it. So this season will be a right off with plenty of pain on the field and off. But it is also a time to really evaluate who desperatley is dedicated to succeeding and who is not. If there are certain players who arent complying move them on. We have no space for passengers. Finally i trust yourself , Neil Craig, Cam Schwab and the entire recruiting staff to chase the best players in the trade/free agencey/ draft. If that means getting Travis Cloke or a midfielder from another club do it. Plus getting 3 or 4 of the best young midfielders in the land that are ready to work hard and play footy and the acquisition of Jack Viney. Make the most of the high picks we will more than likely be gaining. BEST OF LUCK GO DEES

Mark Neeld. Hold the line, keep the faith, do what you need to do, because I believe you're the best thing that's happened to this club since Swooper.

I don't think Mark Neeld needs our advice about relaxing but the Melbourne community should think about it. I know that might sound unsatisfactory in light of our substandard performances for most of the year to date but we are undergoing a major overhaul and it ain't easy. I expect that this is leading somewhere positive and really believe that we will see major improvement and a few different names and faces in our lineup when the seasons's over.

As Melbourne supporters I think we're all used to failure and disappointment. We've witnessed some pretty miserable times over the last few years, but even during the worst moments there was cause for hope. We could assure ourselves that we would rebuild, gain some high draft picks, get some games into the kids and eventually re-emerge as a premiership contender. We could stomach 2008 because we all knew that, after a season or two of pain, we'd be back with a team full of young-guns that would be the envy of every team in the league. I don't think any of us could have really "enjoyed" the Bailey years, but at least we were able to delude ourselves into thinking there were signs of progress or that we were heading in the right direction. Every drubbing only brought us one step closer to a priority pick, afterall, so there wasn't much downside was there? Now, though, I just don't know what we have to pin our hopes on. This will be 6 consecutive years down the bottom of the table and we're literally in a worse position than when we were in 2007. None of our high draft picks have come on, so we can't even cling to the ephemeral hope that we can tank our way back to competitiveness. You could give us the first 3 draft picks for the next 5 years and it wouldn't make any difference: we'd be playing them in a losing team with no leadership to speak of, destroy their confidence, then flay them alive on our messageboards for failing to save us from ourselves. Morton was drafted as a kid with sublime skills; 4 years on, he can't hit a barn door. Trengove, potentially a number 1 pick, is yet to have a standout game and this year can't even get his hands on the footy. Jack Watts - the kid drafted as the solution to our tall forward woes - returns from two games in the seconds to play as a loose man in defence. None of them have shown any real progress since being drafted, why should we expect the next batch of youngsters to be any different? Some might console themselves by thinking that Neeld is instilling some toughness in the players, demanding accountability and adherence to structures whatever the consequence on the scoreboard. If he has been doing this, then frankly I'm not seeing any signs of it. We have literally never looked like a less capable football team. We can hang the senior players for going missing, and while they must accept their share of the blame, perhaps they can be excused for failing to show leadership. They were, afterall, dumped from the leadership group by a guy who'd only been at the club for 5 minutes and replaced by a couple of 20 year-olds. For all their faults, it must be difficult to find the motivation to lead when the coaching staff shows you as much confidence as that. Say whatever else you like, Neeld has completely lost the players. So where to? Changing coaches doesn't work, high draft-picks don't work, changing the leadership group does't work... what's left? Do you want to tell me this just a practice season? That we should be too concerned about the results, because the real importance lies in Neeld drilling the players with what's expected to them? Fine, but my reply would be that we've already had 5 seasons like this where the results are "not important" and where has it got us exactly? At some point we're actually going to have to start playing real football instead of making sacrifices for some distant point of glory in the future that's frankly looking more and more distant with each passing week. Besides, what's my motivation for watching / attending games where the team I support isn't really interested in competing? Perhaps I should just step away until the team decides they've undergone enough "training" or "practice" or "got enough games into the kids" to actually start trying? When do we expect that'll be? So I don't know. I'm completely bereft of hope, and when a fan can't find even the flimsiest pretext to cling to in hope then what point is there? Why am I enduring this misery when I don't expect it to lead to anything except more misery? How can I take another five years of this crap and retain even the slightest bit of passion for this team? What, finally, do we have to look forward to? Can anyone give me anything?

Hope? Right now, there's none. Not for 2012. I'm not putting myself through this for the playing group any more. No way. I'm going through it for me. Why? Why the hell would I put myself through this? Because in that last day in September, when I see the Melbourne captain and (hopefully) Mark Neeld lift that cup aloft, I will be able to look back and say I was there in the darkest of the days. I don't know that it'll happen. Supporters on here who've never seen a flag despite being in their 40s make me wonder. But I have to keep the faith. Because, what else can we do? I couldn't bring myself to support another club. I have a soft spot for the Suns, admittedly, as I share a namesake with one of their players - but that isn't enough for me to turn to openly support them and reject the MFC. The only thing that would turn me to any sort of thing like that would be a removal of the MFC from the AFL. I see people on here talk about how bad the early 80s were, and then how good '87 was. Winning once more, making finals once more, is surely going to be all the sweeter for this suffering that we're going through right now. Maybe I'm naive. But this is my choice. And I will continue to follow the Melbourne Football Club, until the day either I or they die. Until such a time, every other team on game day is the opposition, every game is winnable (sure, a meteor could hit the stadium!) and I will scream my lungs out every time they have a home game at the 'G which I'm attending.

would someone FFS sign up Kennely's grandmother pronto before Eddie hears about her!

I put the below in another thread but its better suited to here. Its pretty clear to me. Last year happened off the back of listless senior players and no leadership. Yesterday happened off the back of listless senior players and no leadership. Yesterday for me affirmed the correctness in Neeld removing Moloney, Green and Davey from the leadership group and dramatically instilling kids that are granted not ready but will grow into the position. Yesterday was a perfect day for the three of them and Sylvia to lead by their actions but they were pitiful as always. The only way to fix this is to cut the cancer out and send Moloney, Sylvia, Davey and Green to Casey and play less talented players who will give their all and play their role. The quicker this is done the better.

I know everyone's sick of hearing it... but how people can't see he's Goddard mark ii is beyond me. Everything we're saying now (except the fact he's not the KP forward we wanted) was said about Goddard for the first probably five years of his career. It's startling. He's a tiny skinny little guy at the moment who has no weight to throw around. Patton will come in and have an impact cos at 18 he's already 10 kilos heavier than Jack. When he's THIS concave in his chest, his only role will be mopping up in defence. His kicking can be lethal when his mates lead for him. He's got sensational vision and kicking skills on both sides... For now, it's the role he SHOULD be playing. Then move him up to a wing when he gets some more weight. Then finally half forward. There's nothing WRONG with that. It's a shame we didn't get our KP forward out of him like we planned, but to be honest, I don't care, as long as the #1 draft pick starts being a dangerous player in ANY role.

Something is seriously wrong at our Melbourne Football Club. We have slumped to one of our lowest points, and I don't need to provide the detail as to where we're at, it's plain and obvious for all to see. What's most troubling is the uneasy quiet of concession by members and supporters that we no longer even care to feel the hurt any more. This spells very dangerous times for the club. In such a position, we tend to seek answers as to what's missing, or what we can do to turn things around. Is it the coaching staff? Is it the players? Is it our foot skills? Decisions making? Willingness to run? Is it the administration? Is it the strategy? Is it the recruiting? What can we change?... The reality is that like all AFL clubs, we have a capable administration, playing list and coaching staff. Capability doesn't bring success, nor does it even bring competitiveness. I love Australian Rules Football because it is not just by measurable and definite qualities that can ensure success, as success comes to those who believe that it is theirs to take, and that they can take it. The MFC lacks confident self belief. The players don't believe that they can win. The supporters don't believe that we can win. The coaching staff must be beginning to have doubts. The administration must also be doubting our ability to win. The thing about confident self belief is that it holds a very strong inertia. It's contagious and self affirming. It feeds on itself, with success breeding confident self belief, and confident self belief breeding success. It's distinct from false or extrinsic belief, it can't be learned. It must be boldly asserted. It's elusive yet real, I know myself playing that I could do amazing things when confident, and the opposite true when I wasn't. The other side of the equation holds equally true. The lack of confident self belief ensures failure, which in turn compounds the lack of self belief. Like any unsuccessful person or organisation, this is the condition we find ourselves in. We often look to the wrong things to resolve this condition. Changes to the personnel (be it playing, coaching or administration) are not an effective remedy to the condition, as there is never a complete turnover of personnel. Every MFC player that runs out shares a common thread of Red & Blue with every player who has played. There's a large part of last week's team in every round. It's been that way for 154 years. Even if there were a wholesale change in personnel, the condition exists in the entity of the club itself through the image it has in the mind of the general public. We can't dig ourselves out of this hole by changing personnel, so let's just kill that idea here and now. How can we develop confident belief? Here's a positive. Confident self belief is contagious, so once we start to develop it, the inertia of it can help it to feed itself. The difficult part is finding out where it comes from at such a low point. This is something which can't be forced, but may be taken by any true leaders at the club (whoever they may be), and then slowly transferred. There is an opportunity for every player on our list to simply become great by starting to lead. There's nothing formal about leadership, it's open to all. Where and when this spark will come I don't know, but a good starting point is an awareness of this. Every player and official at the club needs to know that they are capable, that they do have the ability to win a premiership, all they need to do is just assert it, because success is there for the taking, but only for those who are prepared to take it. Who will stand up?

Totally agree. Said much the same thing to Don McLardy at three quarter time at the game yesterday. I also told him that I flew back from Hong Kong especially for yesterday's game. He seemed to like that, and he immediately acknowledged that it's not that easy for MFC supporters at the moment. He also said that the club is very excited by Jack Viney. The compo picks that we got for Scully, coupled with what will obviously be a poor ladder finish this year, will land us a couple of very good players later this year.

You know that for a fact do you? You've spoken to him, or the coaching staff and he/they have confirmed it? Or is this just more of your speculative crap that bears no relevance to reality? Don't try to sound authoritative when the reality is you don't have a clue.

He injured his ankle in a fall, not because of fitness. Stop looking for conspiracies and people to blame, cos this is not one of those times.

Unlike some on here I don't profess to know what's wrong. But I do know that something is seriously wrong. Whether it's disenchanted older players that have affected the psyche of the group, players at odds with some in administration, players not embracing the new coaching regime, the playing group not understanding the way the coach wants them to play, I can't answer, but something is seriously wrong. Call me crazy, but the playing list isn't poor. Yes, we have a pox midfield, but Sydney's aren't much better. Our players run with lead in their legs. They don't chase. They don't man up. They don't put their bodies on the line. They've lost all of their natural footy instincts. They don't hunt the ball. They don't trust their teammates to win contests, which means they lose their structures. They're either playing with fear, which curtails initiation, or even worse they don't care enough. I don't know why, but I do know that this football club is in crisis.

WTF? Seriously guys. You're wanting to ditch the ADMIN when it's the players and coaches who are not performing?! Beyond ridiculous. Personally I think Schwab in his OFF FIELD role has done a great job. Look at what he has to work with, a passionless playing group who don't give a toss about the club and get belted every week, yet he still finds sponsors, better facilities, etc. Don't go on a witch hunt over the only part of our club that is functioning properly. Geez the lady that cuts the oranges will be next to go.... Get a clue.

James Cameron has just released footage of when he went recently travelled 11 Kim's to the bottom of the ocean the lowest piont anyone has ever been. If you look closely at the footage you will see the Melbourne football club in the background.it can only get better from here STILL PROUD TO SUPPORT THE RED AND THE BLUE

For anyone that feels like a chuckle (or a cry) [media=]

how about we do the opposite!? get everyone to the game, theyll be expecting maybe 10,000 mfc supporters there and half of those to leave at half time. how about everyone makes a special effort to get there, show the team how much we care and make some noise; and then then they might play like a team. OUR team. how about that?

I'd tell Nate Jones how much I appreciate the heart and soul he puts into this club on the field.

I have a somewhat perverted fantasy that we aren't actually this bad, we have just been tanking this season to set ourselves up for a dominant 10 year period. It helps me sleep at night anyways. That and scotch. Lots and lots of scotch. Wwahhhhhhhhhhhh!

I'd like to ask Neeld for an off the record list of the players who are spoilt brats he wishes would rack off.

Getting rid of Junior. I said it at the time and maintain it. He was the glue at the place. Just a decent, hardworking figure who kept everyone in line. Under him (even through this year) the younger blokes would've seen a standard and been able to concentrate on their own games rather than having to become captains at 20 etc. I don't know who made the call on that, but that was the end of our gradual improvement. Schwab and Connollly should've gone after the Geelong defeat, too. Someone in the upper echelons needed to be accountable, as well as the coach. Jones as captain, in hindsight, an absolute no-brainer.

Sadly I don't think you would need to organise a boycott to stop people attending.

FCS What the hell do you think that would achieve? Seriously, what is the end result you are trying to get from taking that action? Maybe the club would realise we are in trouble? REALLY? You think they don't know that? The mind boggles...

Yeh...lets grab some pitch forks and burn a witch as well. Have you been watching what's happening on field? If we let the tail wag the dog we are a failed organisation.

Yeah, butchering the administrators will help our players hit a target.

I think you missed his point, Jose. You are not respectful of other's opinions on this forum and it's wearing really thin.

He is becoming the excitement machine that Jurrah was prior to his injuries and "other issues". To me he is a Robbo, plus teamwork.

Jose can people make a comment without you trying to be authoritarian "My view is it and thats the end of it" everyone has different opinions. Letting Junior and Brad Miller go was a mistake. Junior for his on and off field leadership and Miller for his professionalism on the training track. Big deficincies were missing, whilst we have been well compensated for Scully moving on he was absolutley right if he left due to a lack of professionalism in the playing group, it is very clear now. Whatever people say about him he knows how to train and put the effort in and it's contagous I accept Neeld and Misson are trying to change this and it will take time, but those two (Miller & Junior) would have assisted in getting the message across to the playing group. At the worst we could have got another season at least out of them and kept one on as an assistant.

i don't understand why people keep saying this, none of those wins were against anything but easybeats. We were mostly absolute rubbish last year, and folded like a pack of cards whenever real pressure was applied - including the worst loss in the club's history. I also don't accept the "same team" line. Scully and Gysberts both played important roles in most of the wins you refer to, Green and Davey are obviously on the way out (age catching up with them), Jurrah (also an important contributor in the wins) has been injured etc, Sylvia has been out and/or playing, but with no pre-season has Buckley's of making any real impact, Martin has been injured etc. etc. We're missing a number of the key performers from those wins, such as they were.

No, they don't enjoy playing defensively and sticking to structures. And it's only some of them, but still too many, and it's letting the rest of the team down.

this is a ridiculous topic we don't need to tank to loose games of footy, you need to be able to win first to tank to loose

Jos'e, must you kick the sh!t out of every supporter today? Unless you are a board member, you have the same information of this mess as we all do. You keep saying that all is good and on track inside the MFC Compound. Clearly it isn't.

Over and over on this forum, we find ourselves being lobbied (not always politely or respectfully) to take sides: the players or the coach. The coach's job is to get the best out of the players that he has, and get the team thing happening. The players' job is to do what they've been preparing their whole lives to do, and follow team structures in doing it. Clearly the players are not playing to their previously proven ability, and cannot be following instructions when they play such rubbish football (with no spread, no shepherding, etc); and the coaches clearly are not encouraging the players' self-belief and use of their skills, nor are they getting through with their intention to harness the players' efforts to "a game-plan". The players are failing to do their job, and the coach is failing to do his. Does this mean we have to blame somebody? well, what if we do? If you drop the players, you have to pick somebody else, and we are already picking the best we have. If you sack the coach we have to start all over again, again, with further loss of face and confidence and morale, as well as the inevitable confusion. These guys (players and coach) need to get it right, together - they are who MFC has. If anyone else is interfering with their doing so, then the Board should surely tell them to f*** off - we are a football team, and the playing of football is our core business. The players are our ultimate assets in that sense, and the coach is there to get the best out of the players. Anybody else and their importance is secondary to the players running out onto the ground to play the game. So, what do we need to do to get players and coach sorting out the stuff that has them currently "not on the same page"? Do we think the players need to learn e.g. how to shepherd, as though they don't understand the concept??? Or does someone think the problem is that the coach needs to learn how to be a conductor instead of a Roman flagellator??? do we really think either party has got to where they are without such elementary things well understood (even though they clearly are not working at present, for whatever reason?) Or are the posters right when they suggest this mess is something that was here already, before Neeld arrived, and beyond him or the players to fix? In which case is it perhaps time somebody was put in on a permanent basis to restore what has been somehow broken in the lines of communications between players and club? Just like it was needed at Chelsea not so long ago? Such a person would work out what went wrong, of course, but not just to identify where to lay the blame and then get out - we don't need a report, or a Garry Lyon short-term fix. What we need is a permanent change in our system, that starts by acknowledging that employees of the club are all highly competent people, and motivated, but at the moment not able to make it happen... needing help, therefore. Not their fault, but about to be helped with a structure that maybe should have always been in place. It does seem that part of the bigger story here is that some players last year did express some opinions about what was going on; and the way it has played out it appears that it was not a legitimate thing for them to do so. If that's how it was, it is unfair. I know the hardline player-bashing posters, who call the players "cattle" and so on, will want to punish and discipline any player who does anything other than "comply" and play crash-and-bash; but that just isn't working, and the club is bleeding while we stand unbudgingly waiting for it to kick in. Chelsea is succeeding after a period of failure and upheavals, at least partly because they recognised the human capital in their players, and treated them with respect, and provided them with a permanent conduit for their thoughts about stuff at the club. Chelsea agreed that the players were stakeholders, entitled to speak. Qualified to, actually - more so than anyone, perhaps. Because, unlike anyone else, they are the guys who actually run out and experience the playing of the game. And so they and their thoughts matter, a whole lot. Questions to ask of the players, that only they can answer: is the way they are preparing for games working? Could improvements be made? Do they feel positive about their being at the club? They will know what they want to address... I can't understand the view that we should be angered by players having something to say about the way the club facilitates their playing the game. A corporatised view of football sees the players as mere operatives in a grand scheme way above their grasp. That is simply BS, and will never engage players in a creative and exuberant commitment to playing the game they dreamed about all their childhood. The team is, by definition, made up of (and, if you insist, at the mercy of) the players.... As I see it, it's time for MFC stakeholders to sit down together and come up with something that doesn't blame, but which all can own. Get onto the same page! And, the players are the most important, no matter how you look at it. To the hardliners on this forum, I ask you - if it is the players who are at fault here, is there any way you can see that will improve the results for the club in spite of the players? Drop them? - but who do you want running out for the club? Do you want us to shut down? You can't drop them all, even though some posters have actually advocated exactly that. Better to work with the players, I say. Excuse me while I duck for cover.

Screw boycotting. Fly the flag. Seriously. The garbage we dish up is just that. Garbage. Of the highest order. Who are the fans that you respect the most, apart from Melbourne? For me, it's Richmond supporters. Richmond haven't played finals since 2001. Yet they turned up week-in, week out. Screw boycotting. Doesn't get you anywhere. Show up, be loud, be proud for the club rather than for the players. It's about the team, Norm, Ron, Robbie, the 50s, the history of this team. Not the current blokes impersonating a footy side. That's why we need to continue to go along, to show that through thick and thin we are there for the MFC. None of this pissing off to the snow business.

I am shifting in my opinion as to the role of us as supporters. I really don't think we seek enough accountability from the players and board, we politely wait for things to turn around. Are we similar to the polite nice young men the club has recruited? Kicking and screaming may not be the solution but I do wonder if it would serve more purpose than dutiful blind support.

OUT: James Frawley, Jared Rivers, Clint Bartram, Jack Grimes, Colin Garland, Tom McDonald, Cale Morton, Brent Moloney, Nathan Jones, Jack Trengove, Jack Watts, Liam Jurrah, Jeremy Howe, Mitch Clark, Aaron Davey, Mark Jamar, Jordie McKenzie, Colin Sylvia, Jamie Bennell, Sam Blease, Brad Green, James Magner, Brad Green, Liam Jurrah, Sam Blease, Jack Watts... IN: Caitlin Bassett GS West Coast Fever, Erin Bell GA, WA Adelaide Thunderbirds, Julie Corletto GD, WD, GK Melbourne Vixens, Catherine Cox (vice captain) GS, GA New South Wales Swifts, Susan Fuhrmann GK West Coast Fever, Laura Geitz GK, GD Queensland Firebirds, Mo'onia Gerrard GD, WD New South Wales Swifts, Kimberlee Green WA, C New South Wales Swifts, Sharni Layton GK, GD, WD Adelaide Thunderbirds, Natalie Medhurst GA, GS Queensland Firebirds, Chelsea Pitman WA, GA Queensland Firebirds, Natalie von Bertouch C, WD, Adelaide Thunderbirds...

OUT: Davey, Jurrah, Sylvia, Moloney, Morton IN: Martin, Tapscott, Couch, Taggert, Dunn

I was there tonight. I actually flew to Sydney with my daughter and joined my nephews and niece (Swan supporters) for a special occasion. I am now in my late 50's and am so f&&&ing fed up! That was as inept a display as I have seen. It was just as humiliating as the 186 to Geelong. In 1987 I was in Europe on holiday and by about mid June we were going really badly. I found myself in Australia House in London reading the Age and learning that the Dees had just had their annual thrashing at Kardinia Park. I thought to myself, "Hrere I am on the other side of the world, having a great time, but I choose to punish myself by attaching my emotions to a stupid f&&&ing football team called the Demons. that's it! I'm giving it up!" I came back in early July and managed to ignore the footy for a few weeks until in round 22 Robbie Flower kicked that goal and got us into the finals. My friend, with whom I always went to the game, dropped in on the way back and said, "we're in the finals! Do you want tickets?" Like Michael Corloeone, "Just when I thought I was out, they suck me back in!" I've been sucked back in ever since. Right now, I've had enough! I want out but I know that my emotions are too entangled with the fortunes of the Melbourne Footy Club. It brings me so little joy but I keep punishing myself. My wife thinks I'm stupid. She is a casual Geelong supporter but doesn't get interested unless they are winning. I don't work like that. I wish I could. The Dees have brought me so much pain over the past few years and I suffer like all of us, in the vain hope that we might one day be a real AFL club rather than a fragmented bunch of losers. I'm sick of friends ridiculing my choice of team, or worse still, offering some sort of ignorant but patronising sympathy. It's like a really sick addiction that promises some sort of ecstasy but never delivers. I'm so over it!

I think this is an accurate reflection of what has happened in the last 9 months. Taking into account what we know, in the period leading up to 186 there was a serious internal conflict between Bailey and Connolly/Schwab. Schwab had a clause in his contract in regards to whether or not he was to be extended, and the Leaders were asked their opinion and they gave it to McLardy. It's clear from the fall out that the Leader fell on the side of their Coach. The Leaders feelings were taken to the entire Board and the Friday before 186 Schwab was told he would be sacked. The day 186 happened Garry Lyon was on MMM calling the Bulldogs-Eagles game and made comments that from seeing the score he "would be making some calls about this", despite having not seeing the game. It's no secret that Lyon and Schwab go way back, and perhaps knowing that his mate was in trouble with his job he's intervened and pushed the axe towards the coach instead - and not without justification given the result in that game but also the lack of defensive capability in the team under Bailey's reign. The fall out after this is that Schwab and Connolly remain, knowing that the Leaders don't rate them, so when Neeld and Craig arrive, they'd be in the new blokes ears telling them how the Leadership is no good and has to change. As a result we have two 20 year olds burdened with the Captaincy when they should be just worried about developing as players. In the period Lyon spent as Football Director he said he personally interviewed all the staff - then not long after people like Flack and Prendegast were suddenly gone - I wonder if they had the same issues with Schwab and Connolly that the Leaders had? In terms of "accountability" I want to know what accountability Lyon has to all this? The reality is that we are four years into a rebuild with a team that won 8.5 games last year. We were in the mix with North Melbourne and Richmond over the last few years as being developing sides and despite North's last two weeks both teams are massively ahead of us. I understand that people will say blame the players, but the Coaching sets the tone and the system the team plays with. If you want examples, look at how Essendon's mentality changed from Knights' all attack (similar to Bailey) to how aggressively they defend 15 months later under Hird, or look at the difference Sanderson has made with Adelaide in just 8 months. Both teams have largely the same players too. There's no doubt there were issues with what was happening on-field last year. Bailey may not have been the long-term answer, but to strip everything back to square one three years into a rebuild is baffling.

I would love to address the players myself. Thes players need to be reminded how privileged they are to have the opportunity to play AFL. It's totally gut wrenching watching this team go so far backwards in the space of 8 months. I can't see myself attending another game this year, it seriously not good for my health. I just get to angry.

Time to bring back this beauty from a few years ago:

By doing what they were going to do before 186 and rid this club of Cameron Schwab and his cohorts before it is too late.

When in Rome , do as the Romans do . They ain't tuning in to the Demons . Enjoy your holiday DD !

i'm sorry but didnt the board act after 186, we had lyon step in in a [censored] role that he handed over, talked tuff acted tuff changed the whole FD around and put people out on there ear. so to expect change again is just childish, if we were to change everything again and not give this new arrangement a chance then that would just tear what little fabric that is left of this club to shreds, we've had greg step into what gary's role was and he's been very successful in all his other ventures and he hasn't made any drastic changes so how bout we just let things settle and stop acting as if the end is nigh. buckle up because we have to wait for our kids to lead us out of this and teach the next generation, because we have already learnt the likes of bate dunn and petterd aren't equiped to do it.

I'm now thinking that this is the main issue . Or at least the events leading up to that fateful day . Of course , we had quite a few poor performances leading up to that day but .............the attitude on the field (from that game) largely remains . Trouble is , I don't reckon the club knows how to repair the damage . Maybe we need a spill of positions on the board . Bring a whole new bunch of people in . That new board can then judge what administrators , coaches and in turn what players remain . We've changed all the coaches but the players and the administration are pretty much the same . I banged on about the 'Game plan' last weekend but tonight's dismal performance runs a fair bit deeper than a game plan . We're in serious trouble and hopefully our board will recognise this and act . If that means they have to resign and allow others to run our club then so be it . McLardy has to do something - now .

Whew! How long have you got to discuss this - it can't be answered in a few words here and I don't pretend to be a coach! I understand the point you are making, but the 2 hours a week we see as supporters are definitely not just another 2 hours training for the coaching staff - if it was they would be out of a job very quickly - their passionate aim is to win! I don't think you can draw your conclusion about Neeld not wanting offensive moves just yet based on the information you have supplied - I would be surprised and disappointed if he did not have an attack plan. In fact, the information you have given would indicate that Neeld wants a strict, structured playing style which could treat players as robots and discourage them from a more natural game. Having said that, I also don't believe in Neeld's apparent emphasis on the boundary line defensive style of football (the Collingwood approach) as I have stated elsewhere. In very simple terms, I believe a better portent for the future (and given MFC's playing list) would be the attacking style of play followed by several clubs such as Geelong, Essendon, Richmond, Adelaide, etc etc. The key point is to let players play natural football, which is to attack and score goals, and then finetune their play to deal with defensive structures (keeping in mind that attack is the best defence - General G S Patton comes to mind). Hope this gives you some insight into my thinking for what it is worth!

YES to this. The big issue is that I dont believe Neeld has the players. Maloney won 18 brownlow votes last year and won our B&F. Played dangerously ill against the cats in 186 and gets the blame for what was seems like a football department issue. The leaders backed the coach, spoke out in his defence and were whacked for it. No wonder he's not responding to Neeld. If Neeld is the kind of coach we thought he was when he arrived...if he wants to be an AFL coach...he has to be flexible enough his thoughts about the playing style but more importantly he has to be humble enough to get back the players and heal the rift that exists after 186. I dont know he's going to do it but if he doesnt he's going to go down as the worst coach in AFL history

sorry, but so much dribble, maybe because its so close to such a bad display, but honestly the only reason to why everyone is so upset is because everyone talked themselves into having a chance tonight because of Sydney's injuries. Watch the games this season, we are practising our defensive set ups, different setups every match, one week we completely sat defensive side of our opponents as if it was in the defensive 50 at every ball up, the coaches the players, everyone at the club has said we know how to attack but have no defensive skills. We are learning on the run, its just such a sad state that the 2 hours all us supporters look forward too each week is just a side thought this year too everyone involved at the club. is it the right way to do things? i dont know, but its the way neeld is taking it, we gave baily years so lets give neeld atleast until next year to judge. I know I've paid my membership, I might be lucky to make one game a year but pay up every year, do I get angry at results, damn straight I do but the way some of you are carrying on is childish. It's two hours a week stop acting like your life depends on it, because if the players lives depended on it we wouldnt have any left. Sorry to be all over the place with my post but there are so many different angles to discuss, I dont post much but spend alot of time on here and understand what we're all going through, but the way people talk around here is just horrible, seriously I bet all the main doomsayers are still posting here next year paying their memberships. It says alot about our members/supporters, we stick tuff, makes the wins all that much sweeter. so in short, harden up princesses. (I note the irony starting this post with the line "so much dribble" then dribbleing on for so long. sorry.) edit. spelling.

I have a theory about the accountability. Last year the players were unhappy about the lack of support given to their then coach by certain elements of the administration. As a result players play the worst game in the clubs history. Coach is sacked, but administration remains. Said administration looks for new coach and a guy comes in and says 'your players are crap and they have a terrible attitude'. Administration loves what they are hearing as it proves they were right. Coach is employed and implements a style that strips players of confidence as they need to 'rebuild'. Again this proves popular with administration, who the coach answers too. Season begins and club looks really poor. Administration again feel like they were 'right' as club looks terrible, which surely must be the players. Reading between the lines it's obvious the players aren't buying into coach, and also have no confidence in themselves which makes them look a lot worse than they are. Club looks poised to clean out list AGAIN at end of year. And who will be left? The same administration that the players felt weren't good for the club to begin with. In short everyone is accountable but the club never fixed the problem. Instead they picked a side and hoped it was right. I think we are seeing that this wasn't the wisest idea. Accountability starts and ends at the top.

Not for me. We could start with the massive fall-off in form from the "senior" players: Sylvia, Green, Davey, even Jamar and Moloney. As Paul Roos said in his commentary, you can have all the team meetings etc. you want, but the players are just NOT putting it together out on the field, under pressure.