More insults from the AFL

[deanox 8,780]

Maybe we should stop selling 4 points interstate every year then.

we have stopped selling four points every year. our contract is over and im pretty sure we havnt renewed it...last year the afl made us play a home game interstate just because, and the year before we had to play home games interstate because of the commonwealth games. did collingwood have to play any home games interstate because of the commonwealth games? i bet not.

the afl could fixture a dream draw for everyone. they choose not too because it doesnt make them the most money.

[Yencks 8]

i agree with rhino...if our fans dont give a sh** when we are losing and dont bother to turn up, the AFL are gonna give us sh** treatment. they are already paying us extra each year to help us out. let this be a message to our disgraceful fans that go to the snow

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Dean,

its about getting bums on seats. You do that by winning.

You need to understand that the AFL seeks to maxmise the community acceptance and support the games in order to sell TV rights and get the paying public to cough up.

If its a choice between Collingwood vs Anyone else and getting 50,000 at the MCG and Melbourne vs Port Adelaide at the MCG getting barely 20,000 what do you think they will do?

The draw will not be more equitable until we can perform in accordance with the AFL's metric. I dont know why people continue to bleat about playing interstate 4,5,6 or 7 times.

The interstate clubs play interstate at least half their games yet are still successful. Why is that?

Its a shallow cop out to put the draw at the culprit of our lack of success.

The reality is that the AFL is made up of the richer and poorer clubs. We are in the latter. As a consequence we have to do things smarter to overcome the commercial, demographic and financial barriers we have.

The truth its a great effort for a Victorian club to win the AFL flag these days. Given the support and operational base MFC has its going to take something special to do it.

And its no good whinging about the inequality because the level playfield has never existed in the AFL/VFL and will always be driven by economics.

[Weedster 174]

we have stopped selling four points every year. our contract is over and im pretty sure we havnt renewed it...last year the afl made us play a home game interstate just because, and the year before we had to play home games interstate because of the commonwealth games. did collingwood have to play any home games interstate because of the commonwealth games? i bet not.

the afl could fixture a dream draw for everyone. they choose not too because it doesnt make them the most money.

Unfortnately, we are still persisting with selling a home game - except now it's in Canberra (against Sydney) instead of Brisbane. I don't know why we continue to do this - the Brisbane game derailed our season year after year - it's hard enough getting a crap draw travelling interstate 5 times every year without compounding it - time MFC focussed on the real goal which should be winning a flag - do that and the rest will follow !!!!!!

[Weedster 174]

i agree with rhino...if our fans dont give a sh** when we are losing and dont bother to turn up, the AFL are gonna give us sh** treatment. they are already paying us extra each year to help us out. let this be a message to our disgraceful fans that go to the snow

FACT - our season was stuffed after 3 games - fans won't turn up to see the rubbish that was delivered in the early part of 2007

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Unfortnately, we are still persisting with selling a home game - except now it's in Canberra (against Sydney) instead of Brisbane. I don't know why we continue to do this - the Brisbane game derailed our season year after year - it's hard enough getting a crap draw travelling interstate 5 times every year without compounding it - time MFC focussed on the real goal which should be winning a flag - do that and the rest will follow !!!!!!

Its called $$$$$.

There is a lack of it at MFC.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,396]

How does a 'financial basket-case' like Carlton get just 4 interstate trips.

How come they never resorted to selling home games.

(yes - I realise their finances are better now due to Pratt and friends)

[deanox 8,780]

so what you are saying rhino is that we need to win lots of games, and a number of premierships over the course of 10-20 years to change and grow our supporter base so that they come to matches so that we get a fairer draw so that in turn we have a chance of winning a premiership?

rhino i am not disagreeing with you about bums on seats. my comments were regarding the line of thought that success on field will yield you a better draw. it wont. only bums on seats will.

i am saying that to get bums on seats we need sustained prolonged success at the top of the ladder. but i dont believe that is as easy for a club like melbourne, who get a raw deal from the afl regarding the draw, as it is for a club like collingwood, who get an easier run.

perhaps the afl could even it out by saying, collingwood get bigger crowds, so they get their 18 games in melbourne, but they play last years top 8 teams twice, while the mfc can go interstate but can play the lower ranked sides. ? perhaps that will balance it. but atm it is not a balance. it is not a draw. it is an arrangement that suits the afl, which severly disadvantages some teams andlets others prosper.

you cannot argue that the draw doesnt have an effect on our performance. this year maybe not, but it was ruined by injuries among other things. but for a team to win a flag, it is the little 1 and 2% things that counts, and an extra game in melbourne is an amazing difference. an extra 3 is worth god knows how much. this year it was the difference between 2nd and 8th on the ladder...and the difference between 8th and 13th.

[DemonWorshipper 296]

FACT - our season was stuffed after 3 games - fans won't turn up to see the rubbish that was delivered in the early part of 2007

Good point there. In '07 our season was over after 3 or 4 rounds and yet we hadn't left Melbourne yet!! I still remember everyone bleating about our horrible draw in 2000 and yet where did we finish that year?

Yes, we have been screwed by the draw in the past but good teams overcome this. Doers do, whingers never get anywhere!!

[Deeman 1,425]

Kangaroos V Melbourne - Round 4 Cararra

Sauce - Gold Coast Bulletin.

So it looks like we'll playing 7 interstate games ( a record) next year, unless we play 2 interstate teams only at the MCG.

Meanwhile Carlton and Essendon get 4.

Round 7

Hawthorn v West Coast at Mawson Base Antarctica

First AFL game to be played on ice!

Ben Cousins' come back game.

[Redleg 38,029]

Its a shallow cop out to put the draw at the culprit of our lack of success.

Agree with most of what you say, but you will have to agree that a poor draw is a factor in making success more difficult. Collingwood's favourable draw each season makes it easier to make the finals. Less travel, more time for preparation and recovery, less dislocation to daily return including work and home life, more normal sleep patterns, home crowd and effect on umpires plus other factors all emenate from the draw. It does have an effect, but as you say we are going to have to force our way out of the situation we are in. Stronger leadership and more mental toughness and a combined team ethos of not accepting defeat and doing anything to win will turn it around. Also a good run with injuries won't hurt either.

[Left Field 313]

6 of the last 7 flags have been won by interstate teams that must travel out of their home town at least 35-40% of the time. Its a national comp folks and the teams with the best traveling record willl win the flag 90%+ of the time.

If the argument is about membership access to live games, I agree. But if its about some form of win/loss disadvantage, then I think you are misguided.

[deanox 8,780]

6 of the last 7 flags have been won by interstate teams that must travel out of their home town at least 35-40% of the time. Its a national comp folks and the teams with the best traveling record willl win the flag 90%+ of the time.

If the argument is about membership access to live games, I agree. But if its about some form of win/loss disadvantage, then I think you are misguided.

point taken but the problem has more detail than that. WC for example, play 12 games at home, 10 interstate. of the 10 interstate it is possible that they play all 10 in melbourne. they wont, they will play 5-6 in melbourne and roughly the same amount interstate. given that melbourne is also the home of the finals, it is somewhere where teams frequent. in a way it is a home away from home, especially if you are playing 5 or 6 games a year there. sort of how hawthorn made tasmania theirs this year. collingwood, in the example i gave above played only 3 or 4 interstate matches each year. in the two seasons i quoted, they played 2 games at FP each year. im not sure if thats a reoccurring theme, but do they spend more time in adelaide than other interstate venues? (i can confirm 21 games at aami, 19 at scg, 16 at subiaco, 12 at the gabba, 5 at TS, 4 at the wacca, but this is a difficult stat given teams and how long they've been around).

what i am saying, is that travel will affect teams different, and if travel occurs more than every second week, chances are you are more used to it than teams that travel once a month. and if you only travel once every two months, well its probably more of a novelty than a chore...

[titan_uranus 22,751]

The full fixture will be released at 10.40am tomorrow on afl.com.au

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.........

deano, the AFL is interest in crowd numbers, sponsor dollars, TV rights contracts and membership numbers. MFC have historically had a low volume demographic that is a legacy now.

Collingwood has that profile whether it is winning or losing. Its gets favourable opportunities on its draw to maximise the $$$$ from the brand "Collingwood".

If MFC are to get a better draw it needs to actively compete in the profile of numbers above. One of the ways of doing that is winning. And it is hard for Club that is histroy rich, assets and financially poor with 3rd rate facilities and up until 5 /6 years incompetent and unskilled management.

I know its hard and MFC has got to get smarter in all area of operation to counter. There are no easy rides for us with the AFL.

So its no good bleating like a cut snake about the draw. It is logical flimsy to state that we are denied success because of the draw and we wont be successful till we get a better draw from the AFL. Its not true and it wont happen.

A less favourable draw is only one of the hurdles this Club has to get over to be successful. However interstate clubs play interstate regularly. They are forced to play for the ulitimate trophy interstate at the MCG. If anyone wants to bleat it should be them.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

point taken but the problem has more detail than that. WC for example, play 12 games at home, 10 interstate. of the 10 interstate it is possible that they play all 10 in melbourne. they wont, they will play 5-6 in melbourne and roughly the same amount interstate. given that melbourne is also the home of the finals, it is somewhere where teams frequent. in a way it is a home away from home, especially if you are playing 5 or 6 games a year there.

Firstly, the WCE games away fom home reflect a mixed bag over the past 3 years with little "home away from home". I dont see the analogy of a home away from home as the Hawks are playing 5/6 (more like 4) games per year against teams who dont play their at all. Also the Hawks record this year as top side at Aurora was 2and 2 this year and hardly made it there own.

Here is the number of games WCE have played away interstate for the past three years (2007, 2006,2005)

Tel Dome (4,3,1)

Skilled Stad (1,1,1)

MCG (1,2,4)

AAMI (2,2,1)

Sydney(1,0,1)

Aurora (1,0,1)

Canberra (0,1,0)

Gabba (0,1,1)

Hardly home away from home stuff. In fact its all over the place like a backbacker on the run. WCE even complain about lack of MCG games.

There is no doubt the draw is a factor but it is not factor that condemns a side that it cant address other issues that really determine its the position over the long term.

Agree with most of what you say, but you will have to agree that a poor draw is a factor in making success more difficult. Collingwood's favourable draw each season makes it easier to make the finals. Less travel, more time for preparation and recovery, less dislocation to daily return including work and home life, more normal sleep patterns, home crowd and effect on umpires plus other factors all emenate from the draw. It does have an effect, but as you say we are going to have to force our way out of the situation we are in. Stronger leadership and more mental toughness and a combined team ethos of not accepting defeat and doing anything to win will turn it around. Also a good run with injuries won't hurt either.

Its a factor Redleg. But not the mountain Dean is trying to make it.

[drdrake 3,052]

When you draw under 20,000 against two interstate clubs at the MCG, there is every chance the AFL will act on that. Don't be supprised if this year we play Port and Freo once both away which the club would be happy about. We will then have Sydney in Sydney and Canberra, Brisbane at the Gabba, one more trip to either AAMI or Subi and if the posters here are correct one at the Gold coast.

I actually have no problems travelling as long as we get homes games at the MCG against Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong, St Kilda, Western Bulldogs and Kangaroos, that should give us a home attandace averaging above 40,000. With one game against West Coast at the Dome and of course Sydney at Canberra(which we should play at the MCG and play an SA or WA team in Canberra)

A direct outcome from the draw is free to air television, don't be supprised if we have under half our games on free to air and it could get below 10 games.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Correct Dr. Its not just home games, its home games at the MCG against Vic Clubs Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong, St Kilda.

I am not against interstate games. FCS MFC need as much experience playing them as possible. I hate desolate home games against Freo Port WCE etc.

[titan_uranus 22,751]

What would make me the angriest is if this Richmond-Melbourne match had been scheduled at Telstra Dome in order to allow Collingwood to have another MCG home match. I hate it when smaller clubs are pushed around by larger ones.

And I think it would be good for us to have less free to air matches. It would get some supporters turning up to the matches instead of watching them at home.

[TonyMelb 7]

Correct Dr. Its not just home games, its home games at the MCG against Vic Clubs Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong, St Kilda.

I am not against interstate games. FCS MFC need as much experience playing them as possible. I hate desolate home games against Freo Port WCE etc.

Cant see how scheduling Rich vs Melb at TDome maximises the attendance of either clubs supporters. from memory MFC vs RFC attendances at the G are pretty reasonable. What are the odds thet the G will be vacant that day??

Also as 2008 is MFC 150th year and RFC 100th year would have thought there would be a reasonable prospect of higher attendances at all games for both clubs at the G next year. Dont see how this helps either club sell more memberships in anniversary years!!

(Very much like the AFL making these 2 clubs and WBdogs play at Optus to prop up the bluebaggers on past years!0

[Nasher 33,166]

How does a 'financial basket-case' like Carlton get just 4 interstate trips.

As Rhino has said ad nauseum in this thread to date, it's all about bums on seats. Carlton, for all their absolute woefulness on the field and off it in recent times, still draw a crowd. They have the luxury of a large supporter base who don't jump ship at the sight of tough times. It is in the AFL's interests to keep them in Melbourne for the time being. The reason they have not resorted to selling home games is because it would not be a significant revenue boost for them. They get plenty of cash playing here because people actually come to watch them.

Unlike Carlton, the only surefire way our club can continue to keep the cash rolling in and therefore keeping our home games in Melbourne is to win more footy matches.

The onus on this footy club to prove to the AFL why it should get to travel interstate less than it currently does. Look, I think it sucks that we get these "unfair" draws every year, but that's an unavoidable fact of life in the business world. The less viable entities get the least preferrential treatment. There's only one way out of this hole for us, and bitching and moaning about the draw isn't it.

Besides, I don't think that a couple of extra interstate trips a year makes that much difference. Clubs that have been successful in the very recent past like West Coast Port, Brisbane and Sydney all travel interstate far more than we do. Instead of bitching about it, the club needs to just harden up and figure out how to win those interstate matches we've become so good at losing recently.

The game is evolving, and at the moment we're on the unfavourable end of that evolution. We (the club) have got two choices. We can either whinge, blame everyone else, and watch our club drown, or we can adapt and make the best of it. What do you think?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cant see how scheduling Rich vs Melb at TDome maximises the attendance of either clubs supporters. from memory MFC vs RFC attendances at the G are pretty reasonable. What are the odds thet the G will be vacant that day??

Also as 2008 is MFC 150th year and RFC 100th year would have thought there would be a reasonable prospect of higher attendances at all games for both clubs at the G next year. Dont see how this helps either club sell more memberships in anniversary years!!

(Very much like the AFL making these 2 clubs and WBdogs play at Optus to prop up the bluebaggers on past years!0

If Carlton and Collingwood were to play at the G who would draw the most spectators them or Tigers and us. Its a no brainer.

If the G is vacant I would prefer it at the G. If its a Richmond home game then I am less concerned as I cant stand them.

Notwithstanding the centerary years, a competitive Richmond and Melbourne should draw a good crowd. The only problem is 70% of the crowd will be Richmond.

The Tigers are a crap team with a self serving coach but they still pull 30,000 + membership and they do turn up to the games. We have been more successful of recent and our membership and attendances have been poor.

As far as selling memberships the AFL will seek to maximise the brands that work like "Collingwood", "Essendon".

"Melbourne", "Kangaroos" does not work as well.

There is more benefit to the AFL to have a Collingwood at the MCG selling 500 memberships than an MFC sellling 50 to 100.

Think about it.

[redandblue2 0]

for those of you who cant wait for the draw...... see attachement (assuming it works)

Note: source is email from a friend who has connections with PAFC.

2008ScheduleByWeekReportFINAL.pdf

[DemonWorshipper 296]

From what I can see it should be Richmond who should be more insulted by the dome slight. Our home game against them is at the 'G on the last day of the last round, we could get almost double the dome crowd depending on the two clubs go next year!

[Demondeb 8]

Kangaroos V Melbourne - Round 4 Cararra

Sauce - Gold Coast Bulletin.

So it looks like we'll playing 7 interstate games ( a record) next year, unless we play 2 interstate teams only at the MCG.

Meanwhile Carlton and Essendon get 4.

From a selfish point of view, am pretty happy with that game. Lets hope we dont have to travel an extra game. Perhaps we might lose an Adelaide game over at AAMI if we are lucky or a WA game.