Freo Delistings

[Adzman 2,154]

If Collard is salvageable, then CAC might take a look at him. Dunn has shown flashes of great footy, but injuries and form have stopped him becoming a regular.

Both still might find a run at another club. If CAC thinks they are worth a punt, then I could see either getting a run at the dees.

[occo 2]

i would love Ryley Dunn. i have been relitivly impressed when watching him play. hes still young and frankey we could use his speed which is one of his assetts

[JP_ 60]

Looking at the Docker's forum, it seems like Rob Haddrill's the only one they're disappointed about losing:

I'm absolutely devastated for Haddrill. I really did think there was still a spot for him next year at full back. He was unstoppable when he was fit and he was due for some luck. I hope he nominates for the draft and we pick him up again.

i can't believe that they delisted haddrill! the guy could play, i am absolutely distraught!! it wasnt long ago that he was up for all-australian selection. granted he has been unlucky with two knee injuries which has kept him out the last two years, other players have had total recons and been kept on. Surely he could've been given another year!

Definitely thought Hadrill was worth another go, solid defender and showed enough against Port Adelaide. Very disapointed.

http://www.dockerland.com/cgi-bin/teemz/te...ker_Discussions

26 year old fullback coming off two knee reconstructions. Risky, but probably worth more of a look than the other dregs we've talked about for the PSD on this site.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

From my experience reading supporter sites like Ology and D'land, provides absolutely no validation of whether a delisted player is worth a recall.

Hell, in the last two years I have read some heartfelt but misguided defences of Read, Pickett, Bizzell, Ferg and Godfrey as worthy AFL players for another year. All completely crap.

And if we have just delisted a 26yo courageous but defintely NQR defender who was always one good season in the weight room away from stardom, why would we punt on another 26 yo defneder who cant crack a regular game in a soft cultured club and with 2 knee recos.

Risky....No....Ridiculous.

If CC, CAC and DB cannot make a rational assessment of the offcuts from Freo then no one can and they should not be in their respective jobs. I trust they will make that sensible assessment.

[rpfc 28,777]

And by "sensible assessment" do you mean agree with you.

We have their coach from last year on our staff, if we pick any of them up it will be for good reason.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And by "sensible assessment" do you mean agree with you.

"If CC, CAC and DB cannot make a rational assessment of the offcuts from Freo then no one can and they should not be in their respective jobs. I trust they will make that sensible assessment."

[rpfc 28,777]

"If CC, CAC and DB cannot make a rational assessment of the offcuts from Freo then no one can and they should not be in their respective jobs. I trust they will make that sensible assessment."

Selective quote considering the last thing mentioned before it is that it would be 'ridiculous' to pick up Haddrill. Therefore implying that their judgement can only travel one course.

You have made that rational assessment and then stated that these assessments should be left to CC, DB, and CAC, even if the 'rational assessment' they make is 'ridiculous.'

I stand by the implication that many people see rational decisions as only those that parallel their own prejudices and preconceived notions.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I stand by the implication that many people see rational decisions as only those that parallel their own prejudices and preconceived notions.

Welcome to Demonland.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

You challenged my use of the words "sensible assessment" and then implied a meaning to my words which clearly was not evidenced had you actually read the sentence before. I then assisted you by quoting that statement to clarify that.

Its hardly selective quoting. Its actual quoting within context. A point you fundamentally missed.

Further, your claim of my "rational assessment" was actually my opinion of Haddrill from watching both Freo and Haddrill from afar. There are a number of elements that need to be assessed in considering Haddrill including amongst other things the state of his knees post reconstruction. His profile does not excite me and posters who draw supoort for their argument to pick Haddrill from quotes off supporter websites should be gunning for us to re-list some of the deadwood we have already cut as supporter sites traditionally horrendously overvalue their own. Then they dont understand when they are cut.

So, given my regard for CAC's skills, DB's judgement and CC's Freo experience they should be able to make a better and informed assessment of the PSD value of any of the Freo offcuts than myself or any other poster. You are actually arguing in favour of my point of view despite your pretentious and highly vacuous "analysis". Its a pity you dont take the time to read before you frivolously nitpick.

[Jarka 767]

It's rare that a delisted player will get picked up again and play good footy, most decent players picked up in the psd have elected to not re-sign with their old club.

Decent delisted players in the past:

Rocca

Rodan

Can't remember anymore, anyone else?

At this stage the only players I'd consider would be:

David Trotter

Daniel McConnell

Darren Pfeiffer

However I'd be more inclined to take a punt on a VFL/SANFL/WAFL youngster.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It's rare that a delisted player will get picked up again and play good footy, most decent players picked up in the psd have elected to not re-sign with their old club.

Decent delisted players in the past:

Rocca

Rodan

Can't remember anymore, anyone else?

At this stage the only players I'd consider would be:

David Trotter

Daniel McConnell

Darren Pfeiffer

However I'd be more inclined to take a punt on a VFL/SANFL/WAFL youngster.

Interesting comments.

From my review, there has been a truckload of failures and duds in the PSD. However there have been some gems:

1998 - Joel Smith (Hawks)

1999 - Troy Simmonds (Melb then traded)

2000 - Shane O'Bree (Coll), Simon Godfrey (Played 100 games..settle down)

2001- Brett Voss (St Kilda)

2002 - Trent Henschel (Adelaide) -maybe doubtful

2003 - Craig Bolton (Swans)

2004- Nick Stevens (Carlton) extinuating circumstances, Michael Johnson (Freo)

2005- None

2006 - Its early days but... Guerra (Hawks), Porplyzia (Adelaide)

2007 - None

Its no certainty that there will be any gold in the PSD especially for Pick 3 in what is looking like a skinny list of NQR rejects.

[Kit Walker 225]

Decent delisted players in the past:

Rocca

Rodan

Can't remember anymore, anyone else?

Aaron Edwards for NM was pretty good and Gill was serviceable for Adelaide late in the year. It is interesting that both of those have gone back and played some good state footy (particularly Edwards) in the meantime. Probably demonstrates a willingness to work for an AFL career rather than just have it handed to them.

It's certainly possible to get decent players who have been delisted but they're very unlikely to be stars. With that in mind I'd be happy to take a chance on a player who was a top 20 draft pick a couple of years ago to see what they have got rather than a pick 85 in the National Draft.

If you get 50-100 games out of them and they are a decent contributor, you would have to call that a win - anything else is a bonus. The same rule really applies to a National Draft pick that deep.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Aaron Edwards for NM was pretty good and Gill was serviceable for Adelaide late in the year. It is interesting that both of those have gone back and played some good state footy (particularly Edwards) in the meantime. Probably demonstrates a willingness to work for an AFL career rather than just have it handed to them.

It's certainly possible to get decent players who have been delisted but they're very unlikely to be stars. With that in mind I'd be happy to take a chance on a player who was a top 20 draft pick a couple of years ago to see what they have got rather than a pick 85 in the National Draft.

If you get 50-100 games out of them and they are a decent contributor, you would have to call that a win - anything else is a bonus. The same rule really applies to a National Draft pick that deep.

Edwards was pick 82 in the ND of 2006 so he is excluded.

The test with Gill is can heack it up for approx. 50 games or so. If player was a Top 20 pick a couple of seasons ago then is delisted then there is due cause to ask questions about him. Some of those reasons may completely sway you away from recruiting him. Recruiting and list management is far too professional these day for sides to readily cast off players who would become stars at other clubs. I think the choice between a delisted ex- Top 20 NQR player and a draft pick No 70 is going to have to be on a case by case basis.

IMO there have only been three players who have risen high from the PSD. Simmonds. Smith and Bolton. I could include Stevens but there were special circumstances to his disposition. The best of the rest have been serviceable.

[Kit Walker 225]

Edwards was pick 82 in the ND of 2006 so he is excluded.

The test with Gill is can heack it up for approx. 50 games or so. If player was a Top 20 pick a couple of seasons ago then is delisted then there is due cause to ask questions about him. Some of those reasons may completely sway you away from recruiting him. Recruiting and list management is far too professional these day for sides to readily cast off players who would become stars at other clubs. I think the choice between a delisted ex- Top 20 NQR player and a draft pick No 70 is going to have to be on a case by case basis.

I don't agree with your exclusion of Edwards. The reality is he was a delisted player who was picked up by another club so he therefore comes under the banner of a re-drafted delisted player. Rodan was similarly picked up in the ND and he should also be considered in that same category.

Your second paragraph is spot on though. Calculated risk either way.

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

Robbie Haddrill did look to be an exciting KPD prospect before his knees. Obviously the thought at Freo was he wouldn't be able to get back that kind of flexibility and mobility and possibly even passion for the game.

Pre injury he would have slotted in nicely down back for the Dees

[Nasher 33,617]

Pre injury he would have slotted in nicely down back for the Dees

True, but pre-injury his name would not have been on the table, so it's a moot point.

[rpfc 28,777]

So, given my regard for CAC's skills, DB's judgement and CC's Freo experience they should be able to make a better and informed assessment of the PSD value of any of the Freo offcuts than myself or any other poster. You are actually arguing in favour of my point of view despite your pretentious and highly vacuous "analysis". Its a pity you dont take the time to read before you frivolously nitpick.

Without getting into a verbal two and fro, I did read it.

You gave your opinion, stated what you would decide and then abdicated to the coaching staff. Implying you would expect a more informed decision from them, and that you would accept it.

But how could you possibly accept a decision you think is 'ridiculous.'

Apologies for the pretentiousness, I'm an MCC member. It's ingrained.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Without getting into a verbal two and fro, I did read it.

You gave your opinion, stated what you would decide and then abdicated to the coaching staff. Implying you would expect a more informed decision from them, and that you would accept it.

But how could you possibly accept a decision you think is 'ridiculous.'

Apologies for the pretentiousness, I'm an MCC member. It's ingrained.

Thanks for recognising an opinion rather than a rational assessment.

I gave an opinion on Haddrill only. I then said the coaching staff would have more knowledge on the all the players cut by Freo and should make a rational assessment on all.

Apologies accepted.

[rpfc 28,777]

Right...

Getting back to the thread topic; Dunn might be worth a go, not sure about the blokes they got last year (must be issues) but Haddrill is the intriguing one. So good a couple of years ago and the same age as our current full back.

I don't believe we will go for him, but I am not entirely sure the coaching staff have much of an idea who will start full back next year.

Carroll, Miller, Holland, Frawley, Bell would probably round the options. Each have questions.

[drdrake 3,187]

Haddrill, to old for what our recruiters have stated they want to achieve, CAC has stated that he is looking for players under 23yo so we have a core group of young players that will come through together over the next 5-7 years. Anyone 23yo and over unless they are a gun will not be looked at.

[Jarka 767]

Interesting comments.

From my review, there has been a truckload of failures and duds in the PSD. However there have been some gems:

1998 - Joel Smith (Hawks)

1999 - Troy Simmonds (Melb then traded)

2000 - Shane O'Bree (Coll), Simon Godfrey (Played 100 games..settle down)

2001- Brett Voss (St Kilda)

2002 - Trent Henschel (Adelaide) -maybe doubtful

2003 - Craig Bolton (Swans)

2004- Nick Stevens (Carlton) extinuating circumstances, Michael Johnson (Freo)

2005- None

2006 - Its early days but... Guerra (Hawks), Porplyzia (Adelaide)

2007 - None

Its no certainty that there will be any gold in the PSD especially for Pick 3 in what is looking like a skinny list of NQR rejects.

What I meant to say is that it's fairly rare for a player who gets delisted and then gets picked up by another club to go on and be a good football. eg the saonts wanted to keep Joel Smith but the Hawks trumped their offer and he made the decision to go into the psd. Ditto for Voss, O'Bree and Stevens. I'm pretty sure we were Simmonds first club but i don't know about Henschel.

Kit, you're right about Nick (Mr 100) Gill. He was delisted by us and the roos (?) and Guerra is another one.

I know this won't be a popular opinion but I'd take Cousins in a second if he was available, but only if he's clean.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What I meant to say is that it's fairly rare for a player who gets delisted and then gets picked up by another club to go on and be a good football. eg the saonts wanted to keep Joel Smith but the Hawks trumped their offer and he made the decision to go into the psd. Ditto for Voss, O'Bree and Stevens. I'm pretty sure we were Simmonds first club but i don't know about Henschel.

Kit, you're right about Nick (Mr 100) Gill. He was delisted by us and the roos (?) and Guerra is another one.

I know this won't be a popular opinion but I'd take Cousins in a second if he was available, but only if he's clean.

Agreed about the rarity issue.

I think the issues with Cousins go beyond the "clean" issue and even that one is difficult one to address.

There is no guarantee that this rehabilitation will be enough if at all.

I think Cousins whole personal life and attitudes are in question and his football is a part of that.

Cousins off field behaviour and his public comments have shown him to a sly, unreliable character and I am not sure what basis of trust and commitment you could rely on him for.

I dont buy the change of scenery will do him good. If he comes East its a bigger drug market. Cousins has already discovered Crown Casino, his ratbag mate Gardiner is here and there is an AFL Club that apparently shares his hobbies!

If he is re registered by the AFL what terms and conditions will they put on the Club and him in regard his future playing career.

The other issue is what hunger does he have to play AFL?

There has no doubt he has been a great player but at 30 how much is in the tank?

Also his on field leadership is just destroyed by some brainless and immature judgement calls off the field which really undermine where he is at?

For a club like MFC that is trying to build a successful culture why would we want to invest in someone that has almost single handedly destroyed the culture and future premiership hopes of another Club?

[Jarka 767]

Agreed about the rarity issue.

I think the issues with Cousins go beyond the "clean" issue and even that one is difficult one to address.

There is no guarantee that this rehabilitation will be enough if at all.

I think Cousins whole personal life and attitudes are in question and his football is a part of that.

Cousins off field behaviour and his public comments have shown him to a sly, unreliable character and I am not sure what basis of trust and commitment you could rely on him for.

I dont buy the change of scenery will do him good. If he comes East its a bigger drug market. Cousins has already discovered Crown Casino, his ratbag mate Gardiner is here and there is an AFL Club that apparently shares his hobbies!

If he is re registered by the AFL what terms and conditions will they put on the Club and him in regard his future playing career.

The other issue is what hunger does he have to play AFL?

There has no doubt he has been a great player but at 30 how much is in the tank?

Also his on field leadership is just destroyed by some brainless and immature judgement calls off the field which really undermine where he is at?

For a club like MFC that is trying to build a successful culture why would we want to invest in someone that has almost single handedly destroyed the culture and future premiership hopes of another Club?

I acknowledge and understand all of your points, all valid. It would be a difficult decision for the club to make with a heap of issues that need to be asked and addressed before it could happen. I'd like us to take him but I believe that we won't, because of your reasoning and comments that our pres has made in the past.

Even though I'd like to have him I wouldn't be concerned if we didn't pick him, as you said we're at a very fragile stage of our development and our identity is far more important.

[dazzledavey36 55,327]

from what i ahve heard around the traps we are actually showing intrest in Ryley Dunn

[Demon Head 292]

Ryley Dunn was a gun when he was in the Under 18's but has been hampered by injury all the way through his time at Fremantle. If we're going to pick 6 players in the draft he's surely worth at least a 5th rounder.