Trent Cotchin

[Demon Disciple 11,026]

Palmer and Rance i hope.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

Palmer. We will get either Palmer or Cotchin at 4. Cotchin having Op means shitall..plenty of people can get over it..and if you've seen him, he's dominated the TAC cup.

[Diablo 1]

Palmer. We will get either Palmer or Cotchin at 4. Cotchin having Op means shitall..plenty of people can get over it..and if you've seen him, he's dominated the TAC cup.

Masten has OP, not Cotchin. Cotchin has a broken ankle. Masten would seemingly be the obvious choice at 4 if it were not for his OP, ahead of Palmer.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

my bad. Nah i reckon I'd take Palmer over Masten...Palmer won the Best player of the series in the National carnival...thats the best of the best...not playing tac cup against guys from your own state who might not even get drafted.

[Diablo 1]

my bad. Nah i reckon I'd take Palmer over Masten...Palmer won the Best player of the series in the National carnival...thats the best of the best...not playing tac cup against guys from your own state who might not even get drafted.

Haha sorry Mini-chief, if you're refering to the national U-18 Carnival, then it was Cale Morton who won the Larke medal for the best division 1 player. Palmer was pretty stiff though, given the form he was in. Masten was the ball-getter for both Morton and Palmer. I would not be disatisfied with either Masten or Palmer, but just reading what the recruiters have said (in the Draft Profiles thread) it seems like Masten, at this stage, has a higher 'glass ceiling' than Palmer. The OP might make the decision an interesting one, however.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

I might be thinking of best player in the Granny. He won that i'm certain. He shouldve won the best player though for div 1..i watched all games and he player i'd take out of it would certainly be palmer....ran other sides into the ground. Any WA midfielder would be good..cos they know how to run

[Jerry Lundergard 382]

I am wondering if the bad OP and one eyed Eagle supporter rumours are being peddled from teams or agents from the west so they have a better chance of securing Masten.

[Hannabal 4]

Imo you draft the best player at your pick, OP or no OP. Players do recover from it. I understand why some supporters are gunshy when they see those dreaded letters, but it wouldn't prevent me from picking a player. And certainly not if he was 'best available'.

[Freak 100]

he is not the best available if he misses half of his career because of the OP tho..just like Luke Ball.

[sylvinator 96]

he is not the best available if he misses half of his career because of the OP tho..just like Luke Ball.

i think 'freak' should stop pretending like he actually knows Masten and his condition.

there are different degrees of OP. if its extremely severe and there is a chance he'll never play to an elite ability again, then obviously dont pick him up.

if its mild OP from being mismanaged as a junior, then he will 100% recover with careful management of his body and his training regime.

it would be extremely silly to not pick up the best available player bc of a completely treatable condition of mild OP. When good management there is no reason why it will effect his afl career. people could look back on passing up masten in a similar way people look back on passing up Chris Judd bc of his supposedly dodgy shoulders.

from Freak's perspective, you wouldnt pick up Judd bc there's a chance a treatable condition might curtail his career.

[Hannabal 4]

i think 'freak' should stop pretending like he actually knows Masten and his condition.

I've learnt that if I'm on the opposite side of Freak I'm doing ok.

[Nasher 33,068]

I agree with that Sylvinator.

Very, very few people have truly had their careers wrecked by OP. Stephen Powell is the only one I can think of whose genuine career was genuinely stuffed because of it.

Even if you look at someone like Moloney, he was reasonably fit this year until he was forced into a much heavier workload because there was nobody else.

So yes, the chances of Masten's OP being unmanageable is pretty remote.

[Freak 100]

i think 'freak' should stop pretending like he actually knows Masten and his condition.

there are different degrees of OP. if its extremely severe and there is a chance he'll never play to an elite ability again, then obviously dont pick him up.

if its mild OP from being mismanaged as a junior, then he will 100% recover with careful management of his body and his training regime.

it would be extremely silly to not pick up the best available player bc of a completely treatable condition of mild OP. When good management there is no reason why it will effect his afl career. people could look back on passing up masten in a similar way people look back on passing up Chris Judd bc of his supposedly dodgy shoulders.

from Freak's perspective, you wouldnt pick up Judd bc there's a chance a treatable condition might curtail his career.

well lets see..are you banking that i do not know mr.masten?..we will not pick him up. mark my words.

[Axis of Bob 10,251]

Freak, you say that Luke Ball has had his career ruined by OP. Want to know something funny?

Before the 2001 draft, Luke Ball was free of injury and that was a major bonus for his prospects. That's because Chris Judd had had 2 shoulder reconstructions and Luke Hodge had .... wait for it .... Osteitis pubis! Both of those seem to have had relatively injury free careers.

:D

[Freak 100]

Are you serious? Luke Hodge has chronic groin problems and while he is still a great player, he is playing at about 70% of his maximum. Since his 10 consecutive 30+ disposals games or whatever that he achieved 2 seasons ago i think, he has struggled to get to that level.

[sylvinator 96]

Are you serious? Luke Hodge has chronic groin problems and while he is still a great player, he is playing at about 70% of his maximum. Since his 10 consecutive 30+ disposals games or whatever that he achieved 2 seasons ago i think, he has struggled to get to that level.

luke Hodge was almost all australian this season and starred the entire year. u have no clue.

and yes, hodge had mild OP when he was drafted....wait u would not go near him if you had the chance to draft him...right...

[occo 2]

Cotchin will be gone at 2. Palmer is the best alternative.

[Freak 100]

luke Hodge was almost all australian this season and starred the entire year. u have no clue.

and yes, hodge had mild OP when he was drafted....wait u would not go near him if you had the chance to draft him...right...

yeh he missed out on AA honours..he was an absolute shoe in when he was in his career best form. People were saying that he was better than judd and all of that. He was on fire!!! 10 games or something over 30 touches..thats crazy. never looked like it since.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I have heard AFL commentators and sport journalist laud Luke Hodge as a very good footballer and rightly so. He is. Who were these people who said he was better than Judd? Surely no one credible in the football world.

Once more your dip into the stats and use of them Freak has shown you out again as hot wind.

Here are his stats from 2007. It shows him to be consistent through out the year and indicative of his AA standard form.

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/clubs/hawth...ke-hodge/220047

[Kit Walker 207]

I have heard AFL commentators and sport journalist laud Luke Hodge as a very good footballer and rightly so. He is. Who were these people who said he was better than Judd? Surely no one credible in the football world.

Once more your dip into the stats and use of them Freak has shown you out again as hot wind.

Here are his stats from 2007. It shows him to be consistent through out the year and indicative of his AA standard form.

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/clubs/hawth...ke-hodge/220047

There was an opinion article in the Herald Sun earlier this year (can't recall who wrote it) saying that the gap between Hodge and Judd had shortened drastically this year, and if Judd struggles to get over his injuries, Hawthorn may still have made the right choice.

I think he's miles behind but the article was written.

[Freak 100]

I have heard AFL commentators and sport journalist laud Luke Hodge as a very good footballer and rightly so. He is. Who were these people who said he was better than Judd? Surely no one credible in the football world.

Once more your dip into the stats and use of them Freak has shown you out again as hot wind.

Here are his stats from 2007. It shows him to be consistent through out the year and indicative of his AA standard form.

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/clubs/hawth...ke-hodge/220047

thanks rhino richards, you just added weight to my argument. The stats you gave us showed that Hodge did not have any back to back 30+ touches games..as opposed to 10 consecutive straight he achieved previously. It shows that he has got worse..and even though he is still a star now..there is no doubt he was better 2 seasons ago.

here are his 05 stats

http://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?...FreesFor%20Desc

I rest my case

[Axis of Bob 10,251]

I'm just going to set the debate back, just to lay out the points of discussion.

- Freak doesn't want Masten because he is rumoured to have OP. He has said that "he [Masten] is not the best available if he misses half of his career because of the OP tho..just like Luke Ball. "

- I said that Luke Ball was the only player in the top 3 that was injury free, which included Luke Hodge who had OP.

- Freak said that "Luke Hodge has chronic groin problems and while he is still a great player, he is playing at about 70% of his maximum. Since his 10 consecutive 30+ disposals games or whatever that he achieved 2 seasons ago i think, he has struggled to get to that level. "

Now he is trying to argue that Hodge is a worse player now than he was in 2005. (As an aside, Hodge never had 10 consecutive 30+ disposal games as you claimed)

Freak, I don't care if Hodge is better or worse than 2005. It makes no difference. Is Hodge a good player? Yes. Is he able to play full games in the midfield? Yes. Is Hodge one of the game's premier midfielders? Yes.

I struggle to see how having a very good year, which wasn't quite as exceptional as 05 (not by much, either), is evidence that Hodge was a wasted pick. You even admitted that he is a star.

You obviously would have picked Luke Ball if you had pick 1 in that draft because he wasn't injured at the time. Because "why would you want to touch a guy with OP?...seriously".

Freak, if you make things up, you're going to get caught.

[JJJ 530]

thanks rhino richards, you just added weight to my argument. The stats you gave us showed that Hodge did not have any back to back 30+ touches games..as opposed to 10 consecutive straight he achieved previously. It shows that he has got worse..and even though he is still a star now..there is no doubt he was better 2 seasons ago.

here are his 05 stats

http://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?...FreesFor%20Desc

I rest my case

i wouldnt rest your case on those stats. the year you refer to was when the hawks played awful, indirect, ugly footy. Hodge, mitchell and crawf gathered a large percentage of their stats that year across half back. waxing the ball. they took overpossessing the footy to new heights.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

thanks rhino richards, you just added weight to my argument. The stats you gave us showed that Hodge did not have any back to back 30+ touches games..as opposed to 10 consecutive straight he achieved previously. It shows that he has got worse..and even though he is still a star now..there is no doubt he was better 2 seasons ago.

here are his 05 stats

http://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?...FreesFor%20Desc

I rest my case

Actually, I discredited your argument at two levels. On one level you quote stats that have no credence what so ever and the stats that debunk your argument suggest Hodge been consistent all the way through and definitely AA material.

And as Bob says when you make it up you get exposed. And this is happening to you more times that Hodges touches a ball in a game.