It's not just the running Kev we cannot have Viney, Oliver and Trac as a starting midfield they are one paced lack of skills by hand and foot and football nouse, time for a change, Trac to play more forward than midfield can Oliver learn new skills and not just be a contested player not sure and Viney well been a good player for us but don't think he can play another position in the side, come seasons end it will be interesting to see we're the direction the club takes.

I also noticed we were much slimmer in the top half of the bodies, at preseason.

I thought that had us emphasise being fast.

Heard a media report about the GC or GWS looking stronger in the upper body aspects and the comment that they worked extremely hard to be in top shape.

It will be an interesting off season for us?

Edited yesterday at 13:221 day by Kev

39 minutes ago, Kev said:

Yes, Bing could be right about the fatiguing part and therefore effecting the game

I was just speaking generally - these players and their loads (and everything else) are managed to within an inch of their lives. I don't believe given the data that would be available to the fitness staff that they're sending players out to play if they're underdone - or overdone for that matter.

Also FWIW, I don't believe that fitness or fatigue had a role to play in the last quarter capitulation. Not any more than it would for any last quarter, when obviously players are more fatigued.

Mental fitness and fatigue (switching off) on the other hand ...

32 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

It's not just the running Kev we cannot have Viney, Oliver and Trac as a starting midfield they are one paced lack of skills by hand and foot and football nouse, time for a change.

They certainly aren't the feared midfield they used to be.

Goody played many of the squad out of there optimal positions as he looked for answer. Just hasn’t worked.

I remain optimistic.

Would love us to find a forward that becomes feared and produces consistently good performances.

Also also FWIW, in my opinion what has happened with the players/team/club over the last few seasons is almost ALL between the ears. Even this year. We can at times play like gods and match it with the very best. And then lose to the very worst, often in the worst kind of way (e.g., inaccuracy in front of goal). We're both miles ahead of the Norths, WCE's and Essendons - and miles behind them.

It's not about technique (the players can at times do exactly what's needed), it's not about coaching (we can at times dominate opposition and counter their strengths). Lack of consistency within and across games is almost always down to what's going on between the ears.

As to why, and what to do about it ... I have no idea. I do wonder though whether winning the flag has become a millstone around this group's neck, that they can neither move on from it nor refind the form that lead to it. The pressure and expectation to succeed saps away at them - e.g. both Goodwin and Salem spoke a while back about "chasing the scoreboard" rather than focusing on what you're supposed to be doing.

There's a lot to unpick.

29 minutes ago, Kev said:

I also noticed we were much slimmer in the top half of the bodies, at preseason.

I thought that had us emphasise being fast.

Heard a media report about the GC or GWS looking stronger in the upper body aspects and the comment that they worked extremely hard to be in top shape.

It will be an interesting off season for us?

Salem is the other i put in the out list as well he treads on water when he chases the game style has gone past them them been great servants but they are not going to deliver another flag with us with the way they play.

43 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Also also FWIW, in my opinion what has happened with the players/team/club over the last few seasons is almost ALL between the ears. Even this year. We can at times play like gods and match it with the very best. And then lose to the very worst, often in the worst kind of way (e.g., inaccuracy in front of goal). We're both miles ahead of the Norths, WCE's and Essendons - and miles behind them.

It's not about technique (the players can at times do exactly what's needed), it's not about coaching (we can at times dominate opposition and counter their strengths). Lack of consistency within and across games is almost always down to what's going on between the ears.

As to why, and what to do about it ... I have no idea. I do wonder though whether winning the flag has become a millstone around this group's neck, that they can neither move on from it nor refind the form that lead to it. The pressure and expectation to succeed saps away at them - e.g. both Goodwin and Salem spoke a while back about "chasing the scoreboard" rather than focusing on what you're supposed to be doing.

There's a lot to unpick.

100% agree that it’s mostly between the ears.

As I’ve said, compare the Magpies to us on the field. Or between us now and during our ‘unbeatable’ patch a little while ago.

We’ve got the talent. The first three quarters proved that. We looked a million dollars. While they may have been fatigued, that was a total mental capitulation.

Culture and belief are a million tiny things. Collingwood have it.

On a positive note, I haven’t given up that we can get it back, but will need strong and consistent leadership.

12 minutes ago, Spargonicus said:

100% agree that it’s mostly between the ears.

As I’ve said, compare the Magpies to us on the field. Or between us now and during our ‘unbeatable’ patch a little while ago.

We’ve got the talent. The first three quarters proved that. We looked a million dollars. While they may have been fatigued, that was a total mental capitulation.

Culture and belief are a million tiny things. Collingwood have it.

On a positive note, I haven’t given up that we can get it back, but will need strong and consistent leadership.

100% I agree that a lot of what is going on at the club is mental thing, but this is something that has been slowly getting worse and worse until it reared its head in that total embarrassment on the weekend. We showed mental fragility in going straight sets in ‘22, we showed mental fragility in ‘23 with our two tight losses to go out straight sets again, ‘24 things started coming a part at the seams but no one was able to stop the rot, and then this ear has happened which has included some of the most demoralising losses I’ve experienced in my 30 years as a fan.

Fact is our club has no mental fortitude at all, I can’t stand them and sometimes their stubbornness is completely arrogant, but I have to tip my cap to the Pies for the way they not only stick together but find ways to make sure this sort of garbage doesn’t happen.

10 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

I was there today, DZ. I’m there every single time. I’m just done with posting training reports because the training threads are now just as unreadable as every other thread. The nastiness and negativity is too much.

I don’t blame you Ghostwriter the negativity and mean spiritedness is bordering on this time last year. “The coach needs to be sacked, we need a clean out of players, where’s the resilience, etc, etc, etc. imagine how West Coast, Richmond and North Melbourne must be copping it. Personally I would like to see a bit more resilience and team first actions from some of our supporters, we are doing a rebuild on the fly and there will be ups and downs, it must have been terrible at Marvel on Sunday for our poor Dee Army and supporters watching the doomsday clock winding down then the 6-6-6 nightmare, we really missed May and Levers leadership in the last quarter. The look on our coaches faces said it all. Glad that you turned up Ghostwriter shows that kind of resilience and team first spirit that I mentioned earlier. Bravo.👍😁

40 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Personally I would like to see a bit more resilience and team first actions from some of our supporters.

Yes, clearly the lack of team first actions from our supporters caused the team to give up a 46 point lead on Sunday. What penance or self flagellation do you propose that the supporters undertake to ensure that doesn't happen again this week?

49 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

I don’t blame you Ghostwriter the negativity and mean spiritedness is bordering on this time last year. “The coach needs to be sacked, we need a clean out of players, where’s the resilience, etc, etc, etc. imagine how West Coast, Richmond and North Melbourne must be copping it. Personally I would like to see a bit more resilience and team first actions from some of our supporters, we are doing a rebuild on the fly and there will be ups and downs, it must have been terrible at Marvel on Sunday for our poor Dee Army and supporters watching the doomsday clock winding down then the 6-6-6 nightmare, we really missed May and Levers leadership in the last quarter. The look on our coaches faces said it all. Glad that you turned up Ghostwriter shows that kind of resilience and team first spirit that I mentioned earlier. Bravo.👍😁

Negativity? A touch precious. One flag in 60 years and according to you we are in a rebuild. Please tell Goodwin as he has never spoken of a re build.

54 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

I don’t blame you Ghostwriter the negativity and mean spiritedness is bordering on this time last year. “The coach needs to be sacked, we need a clean out of players, where’s the resilience, etc, etc, etc. imagine how West Coast, Richmond and North Melbourne must be copping it. Personally I would like to see a bit more resilience and team first actions from some of our supporters, we are doing a rebuild on the fly and there will be ups and downs, it must have been terrible at Marvel on Sunday for our poor Dee Army and supporters watching the doomsday clock winding down then the 6-6-6 nightmare, we really missed May and Levers leadership in the last quarter. The look on our coaches faces said it all. Glad that you turned up Ghostwriter shows that kind of resilience and team first spirit that I mentioned earlier. Bravo.👍😁

Agree that some on here seem to have gone off the deep end and need to go and touch some grass.

I’m as disappointed as anyone with the past couple of years (as I emailed the club on Monday) but people need to vent and move on rather than posting 500 times about who needs to get sacked etc imo.

12 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

I don’t blame you Ghostwriter the negativity and mean spiritedness is bordering on this time last year. “The coach needs to be sacked, we need a clean out of players, where’s the resilience, etc, etc, etc. imagine how West Coast, Richmond and North Melbourne must be copping it. Personally I would like to see a bit more resilience and team first actions from some of our supporters, we are doing a rebuild on the fly and there will be ups and downs, it must have been terrible at Marvel on Sunday for our poor Dee Army and supporters watching the doomsday clock winding down then the 6-6-6 nightmare, we really missed May and Levers leadership in the last quarter. The look on our coaches faces said it all. Glad that you turned up Ghostwriter shows that kind of resilience and team first spirit that I mentioned earlier. Bravo.👍😁

The negativity on DL fir the last 18 months has been relentless.

But is peaking right now on the back of the disaster that unfolded in the last 30 mins of last week's game.

I was there, sitting directly above the Dee Army, (whose support was awesome from go to whoa). So I got the full immersive angst experience.

Don't get me wrong it was certainly something to behold.

But at the risk of being howled down, whilst I understand ans share the anger and frustration fans feel, frankly I find many of the attacks on our club pathetic.

What amazes me is that people attack the club like they are not part of it.

Supporters of the dees, regardless of whether they are a paid up member or not, ARE the club.

Boards, coaches, players, CEOs etc come and go. Supporters don't. Supporters support.

We are the club.

I love the dees, and have done since I started supporting them I'm 1972.

I have seen my fair share of woeful performances, including full seasons when we struggled to win a game.

Perhaps is just me, but I've never once felt the urge to mindlessly attack the club and spew vitriol towards it. Criticise sure, blind negativity and anger never.

The one constant in the 50 plus years I've supported the dees is for almost all that time we have been a rabble off field.

Successful organisations, whether in business, community or sport, have one thing in common - strong governance.

Calls for the coaches sacking all you like, bag the the players until you are blue in the place, but we won't see sustained success until we sort our chronic, half century long governance problems.

The great irony is, unlike how players and coaches perform or our trading decisions etc etc, supporters actually CAN do something about improving our governance.

We are a member based organisation and we have power.

In my book, if we choose not to use that power (and I don't mean by refusing to buy a membership or attend games - which of course doesn't help) angst should be directed at us not the usual scapegoats.

Part of the problem not part of the solution.

Peter Lawrence copped a bit of stick for activelly trying to do something about improving our governance.

I for one look at PL's efforts to improve our governance last year thru a different lens now given we end yey another season in turmoil with the shadow President and new CEO on holidays in Europe and not returning to seasons end (even if we wanted to make major changes to the FD how can we).

I'll put my hand up and admit that i have shown little interst in actually trying to ccontribute to efforts to improve our governance. I'll start thinking about how i can change that - for a start I'll go to our AGM for only the third time.

17 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

You think they can work on that stuff in a 30 minute ‘recovery’ session?

I’m sure they do a lot more at Casey during their main session later in the week.

Goodwin has had 9 years to instil it into our leaders and them to the younger players. AS well as what to do with ball in hand

We are clueless

9 minutes ago, binman said:

The negativity on DL fir the last 18 months has been relentless.

But is peaking right now on the back of the disaster that unfolded in the last 30 mins of last week's game.

I was there, sitting directly above the Dee Army, (whose support was awesome from go to whoa). So I got the full immersive angst experience.

Don't get me wrong it was certainly something to behold.

But at the risk of being howled down, whilst I understand ans share the anger and frustration fans feel, frankly I find many of the attacks on our club pathetic.

What amazes me is that people attack the club like they are not part of it.

Supporters of the dees, regardless of whether they are a paid up member or not, ARE the club.

Boards, coaches, players, CEOs etc come and go. Supporters don't. Supporters support.

We are the club.

I love the dees, and have done since I started supporting them I'm 1972.

I have seen my fair share of woeful performances, including full seasons when we struggled to win a game.

Perhaps is just me, but I've never once felt the urge to mindlessly attack the club and spew vitriol towards it. Criticise sure, blind negativity and anger never.

The one constant in the 50 plus years I've supported the dees is for almost all that time we have been a rabble off field.

Successful organisations, whether in business, community or sport, have one thing in common - strong governance.

Calls for the coaches sacking all you like, bag the the players until you are blue in the place, but we won't see sustained success until we sort our chronic, half century long governance problems.

The great irony is, unlike how players and coaches perform or our trading decisions etc etc, supporters actually CAN do something about improving our governance.

We are a member based organisation and we have power.

In my book, if we choose not to use that power (and I don't mean by refusing to buy a membership or attend games - which of course doesn't help) angst should be directed at us not the usual scapegoats.

Part of the problem not part of the solution.

Peter Lawrence copped a bit of stick for activelly trying to do something about improving our governance.

I for one look at PL's efforts to improve our governance last year thru a different lens now given we end yey another season in turmoil with the shadow President and new CEO on holidays in Europe and not returning to seasons end (even if we wanted to make major changes to the FD how can we).

I'll put my hand up and admit that i have shown little interst in actually trying to ccontribute to efforts to improve our governance. I'll start thinking about how i can change that - for a start I'll go to our AGM for only the third time.

Nothing changes.We can all see the slow downfall that is now becoming an avalanche.

Kicking for goal, forward connection, losing close games, Petty in the fwd line, double straight sets exit from finals in consecutive years, same 4 at centre bounces. There are dozens of things that never change.

plus the corrupt muppets at AFL house and the AFL media are destroying the fabric of the game.

Is it any wonder that there is little joy in football. And if there is no joy, why go? Why pay hard earned money to the club? Why subscribe to streaming services to watch?

There are better things to do with ones time and money than bang your head against a wall repeatedly and expecting a different outcome

Great damage has been done to our club in the past 4 years. From the management of players, to the poor standards that have been allowed to fester and to the lack of accountability at all levels of the club. losing 20,000 members this year and likely more next year is a sad indictment on the club.

Aside from a sliver of light in 21 that few of us got to experience live it has been a sh*show mostly. And here we are at an incredibly low ebb that many of us thought we were well past. the lack of competitiveness in our footballers when the heat is on is damning.

Goodwin should be thanked and lauded for our first premiership in 57 years but 4 finals series in 9 years is not a great return particularly when one of those was in his second year of coaching.

17 hours ago, monoccular said:

So, no 6-6-6 set ups, nor manning up the most dangerous opposition player at a final ball up? They would appear to me to be important learnings, but then of course I am not the coach so what would I know?

17 hours ago, 48 Year Now said:

That would be the obvious thing to do.

Actually, probably not. The likelihood of these same players facing the same set of circumstances once again in their professional career is remote. I'd rather they concentrated on things that are more likely going to be relevant such as field kicking and kicking for goal.

21 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Goodwin has had 9 years to instil it into our leaders and them to the younger players. AS well as what to do with ball in hand

We are clueless

Yeah, Yeah. A member takes up his free time to give us some info about a light session and the first few posts dive into the negativity abyss. There is not one thread where someone go for a lighthearted read anymore. No one is happy at the moment, just because some don't post it a trillion times doesn't mean they think things are going swimmingly. This place is cooked.

Id actually like to see the players engage in public self flagellation to ensure the DLers stay happy 🙄

45 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Actually, probably not. The likelihood of these same players facing the same set of circumstances once again in their professional career is remote. I'd rather they concentrated on things that are more likely going to be relevant such as field kicking and kicking for goal.

You dont think its worthwhile to be able to attack or defend from a 666 infringement?

1 hour ago, binman said:

The negativity on DL fir the last 18 months has been relentless.

But is peaking right now on the back of the disaster that unfolded in the last 30 mins of last week's game.

I was there, sitting directly above the Dee Army, (whose support was awesome from go to whoa). So I got the full immersive angst experience.

Don't get me wrong it was certainly something to behold.

But at the risk of being howled down, whilst I understand ans share the anger and frustration fans feel, frankly I find many of the attacks on our club pathetic.

What amazes me is that people attack the club like they are not part of it.

Supporters of the dees, regardless of whether they are a paid up member or not, ARE the club.

Boards, coaches, players, CEOs etc come and go. Supporters don't. Supporters support.

We are the club.

I love the dees, and have done since I started supporting them I'm 1972.

I have seen my fair share of woeful performances, including full seasons when we struggled to win a game.

Perhaps is just me, but I've never once felt the urge to mindlessly attack the club and spew vitriol towards it. Criticise sure, blind negativity and anger never.

The one constant in the 50 plus years I've supported the dees is for almost all that time we have been a rabble off field.

Successful organisations, whether in business, community or sport, have one thing in common - strong governance.

Calls for the coaches sacking all you like, bag the the players until you are blue in the place, but we won't see sustained success until we sort our chronic, half century long governance problems.

The great irony is, unlike how players and coaches perform or our trading decisions etc etc, supporters actually CAN do something about improving our governance.

We are a member based organisation and we have power.

In my book, if we choose not to use that power (and I don't mean by refusing to buy a membership or attend games - which of course doesn't help) angst should be directed at us not the usual scapegoats.

Part of the problem not part of the solution.

Peter Lawrence copped a bit of stick for activelly trying to do something about improving our governance.

I for one look at PL's efforts to improve our governance last year thru a different lens now given we end yey another season in turmoil with the shadow President and new CEO on holidays in Europe and not returning to seasons end (even if we wanted to make major changes to the FD how can we).

I'll put my hand up and admit that i have shown little interst in actually trying to ccontribute to efforts to improve our governance. I'll start thinking about how i can change that - for a start I'll go to our AGM for only the third time.

Thanks Binman. A voice of sanity in the [censored] storm. I’ve been a supporter since 71 so we’ve been on a similar ride.

1 hour ago, MrFreeze said:

Id actually like to see the players engage in public self flagellation to ensure the DLers stay happy 🙄

Ironically that could be fund raising opportunity.

I suspect an Only fans page with 44 fit young athletes self-flagellating would be pretty popular.

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Nothing changes.

My point writ large.

Who's fault is that nothing changes.

An analogy is constantly moaning about how hopeless government is when we live in a relatively well-functioning democracy.

We get what we want.

Edited 15 hours ago15 hr by binman

3 hours ago, DeeZone said:

I don’t blame you Ghostwriter the negativity and mean spiritedness is bordering on this time last year. “The coach needs to be sacked, we need a clean out of players, where’s the resilience, etc, etc, etc. imagine how West Coast, Richmond and North Melbourne must be copping it. Personally I would like to see a bit more resilience and team first actions from some of our supporters, we are doing a rebuild on the fly and there will be ups and downs, it must have been terrible at Marvel on Sunday for our poor Dee Army and supporters watching the doomsday clock winding down then the 6-6-6 nightmare, we really missed May and Levers leadership in the last quarter. The look on our coaches faces said it all. Glad that you turned up Ghostwriter shows that kind of resilience and team first spirit that I mentioned earlier. Bravo.👍😁

Thank you, DZ. Of all days, yesterday was one where I couldn’t NOT turn up.

It’s not easy. It’s actually bloody hard. The looks on some of their faces broke my heart, especially the young boys. I wish all those who relentlessly bag our players could turn up to Gosch’s on a day like yesterday to see the hurt on their young faces.

Troy Chaplin and Chin were walking together and Troy said to me “I didn’t think you’d be here today.” Chin said “I did” and smiled. And that’s why I’ll always turn up.

16 minutes ago, binman said:

Ironically that could be fund raising opportunity.

I suspect an Only fans page with 44 fit young athletes self-flagellating would be pretty popular.

I’m on it, Binners!!!

22 minutes ago, binman said:

Ironically that could be fund raising opportunity.

I suspect an Only fans page with 44 fit young athletes self-flagellating would be pretty popular.

Running the risk of an auto-correct spelling disaster there Binman…!