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Time to start a rebuild?

Return to Glory
in Melbourne Demons

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I worry we'll go down the path of west coast if in fact we aren't already.

When gawn, may, viney, lever retire we've done nothing to even look at blooding youngsters to come through & replace them.

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    8 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

    I worry we'll go down the path of west coast if in fact we aren't already.

    When gawn, may, viney, lever retire we've done nothing to even look at blooding youngsters to come through & replace them.

    eerily similar - they were premiers in 2018, finals in 19-20, 10 wins in 2021, then 2 3 5 wins in 2022-24 respectively

    we 100% have done plenty to bring in youngsters tho - since the premiership we've picked 6 1st round picks (2 tall forward, 4 midfield types), and had success with mcvee as a rookie selection

    it's much more than meth coke ever did

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    1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

    The latest review was run by Pert who later... resigned. Ridiculous conflict of interest. Signed off on by the board.

    Oh yeahhhh I almost forgot about that.

    I bet it was the best review he’s seen in 40 years.

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    meth coke: premiers in 18, made finals in 2018-19 for 1 win, 10 wins in 2021, 10 wins in 3 completed seasons since, 0-5 to start 2025...

    mfc: premiers in 21, made finals in 2022-23 for 0 wins, 10 wins in 2024, 0-5 to start 2025...

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    On 13/04/2025 at 00:53, demoncat said:

    The current rumour is that those talks have resumed / are continuing and that if he accepts Bartel will take over from Richardson

    While Goodwin is rightly copping most of the attention from the media and supporters, I think Richardson has been as bad if not worse at creating / perpetuating the problems that are effecting the club

    The off season review essentially admitted that Richardson needed babysitting to learn how to communicate with the players and others within the organisation - hardly a ringing endorsement

    So while Goody definitely needs to go sooner rather than later, replacing Richardson with someone who has the experience and respect of his peers like Bartel could go a long way to ensuring that we bring the right people into the club going forward, including our next senior coach

    Very interesting about Richardson. His media personality comes across as a bit NQR, abrasive?, perhaps that explains why he has not performed as well as we expected.

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    On 12/04/2025 at 16:15, Adam The God said:

    At this stage, I'm keeping TMac...

    I find it almost impossible to believe I'm saying this, but I agree. Close to our best and most consistent player until the Essendon game where he started OK and then fell away.

    Give him another year and hope someone like Adams tears his spot off him.

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    no doubt there wil be significant change to list at year end. What happens with Trac, Oliver, Koz etc will be facinating. No doubt also McVee is still holding off for signing? I suspect Fritsch will consider a trade also

    However we also need to throw everything at the remainder of the season and leave no stone unturned. Some thoughts.

    • Viney to focus on being a pressure forward only. Rotate in midfield only - not core midfield role.

    • Fullerton to play as marking target fwd and relive Max in Ruck - this will allow JVR to purely focus on forward craft

    • Jefferson must have a long go at it. Put him forward and leave him there with JVR

    • Johnson and Henderson - break glass in case of emergency - do not play them in favour of kids unless they are killing it.

    • Must play Adams.

    • Windsor to play as outside mid

    • Keep Langdon on the wing. dont put him in the middle - Lindsay other wing.

    • McVee back and Rivers in mid

    • Langford at casey for while until you bring him back - he will be good

    • Fritsch - statement required - send him to Casey

    • Kolt - get him in

    • Give opportunities for Brown and Culley

    • No more - melksham, billings or Woewodin - break glass in case of emergency only

    • Petty must stay back

    • Turner, Sparrow and Sharp - remain fringe

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    17 hours ago, dees189227 said:

    I worry we'll go down the path of west coast if in fact we aren't already.

    When gawn, may, viney, lever retire we've done nothing to even look at blooding youngsters to come through & replace them.

    yes we are cooked. its unavoidable unfortunately . got several years of wilderness ahead of us now.

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    Extract from an interview with Jack Graham of WCE, when discussing they have one day less training than at Richmond, because of travel.

    At Richmond:

    “But probably when we do have the sessions, you know, we’re touching the footies enough ... The fundamentals, even if it is a low touch session, it’s like all right, boys, we’re not going to be going quick here, but let’s make sure we hit every handball, hit every kick. So it comes back to the little things.”

    It makes me wonder whether our players having training sessions on their own, away from the club has contributed to our apparent poor skills. Poor skills quickly becomes lower confidence, poor decisions etc.

    We aren't as bad as we play! Could 'poor skills' be as simple as we aren't touching the footy enough at training?

    Edited by Lucifers Hero

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    47 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

    Extract from an interview with Jack Graham of WCE, when discussing they have one day less training than at Richmond, because of travel.

    At Richmond:

    “But probably when we do have the sessions, you know, we’re touching the footies enough ... The fundamentals, even if it is a low touch session, it’s like all right, boys, we’re not going to be going quick here, but let’s make sure we hit every handball, hit every kick. So it comes back to the little things.”

    It makes me wonder whether our players having training sessions on their own, away from the club has contributed to our apparent poor skills. Poor skills quickly becomes lower confidence, poor decisions etc.

    We aren't as bad as we play! Could 'poor skills' be as simple as we aren't touching the footy enough at training?

    I think that's why some on here have a gripe against playing soccer two days after a game instead of just doing simple extra touch skills sessions.

    I understand there is a recovery component to soccer in getting the legs moving being it a flush run, but you can still get more benefits out of it just getting the footies zinging around with some short sharp kicks or handballs just to touch up on our basic skills.

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    3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

    I think that's why some on here have a gripe against playing soccer two days after a game instead of just doing simple extra touch skills sessions.

    I understand there is a recovery component to soccer in getting the legs moving being it a flush run, but you can still get more benefits out of it just getting the footies zinging around with some short sharp kicks or handballs just to touch up on our basic skills.

    I'm ok with the soccer but not if at the expense of 'touching the footy type' training.

    Undoubtedly, we do skills training but clearly not enough.

    Maybe keep the soccer, scrap the' train in their own time' stuff and do more touch-the-footy stuff, and do it leisurely but importantly nail every kick and HB as Graham discusses.

    Edited by Lucifers Hero

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    On 14/04/2025 at 12:18, Roost it far said:

    We fumble a lot

    That's a team that's not invested in the game plan and second guessing.

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    We know the players aren't the main problem.

    A complete change of off field staff is needed. A new clear communication and role structure model implemented. Everyone answers to multiple people who then report to the CEO and President.

    Get on top of the "Oliver situations" quickly. Drafting and trading have more of a group approach.

    Deal with GameDay problems like the forward line more aggressively. How can it be 4 years of the same!?

    Start dropping senior players to make a statement.

    Try players in different positions. Is Petty and Turner the only ones for a while who has moved positions?

    What makes a good key forward. Firstly they have the read the ball well in flight. Secondly they have to have a strong mark.

    Who are the first 3 you think of?

    For me it's Gawn, May and Lever.

    Yes we would lose a bit in defence and ruck but we have done well without Max in clearances and one of May or Lever can be back to lead them.

    We are at the lowest of lows in the forward line ATM. No targets. No one remotely in form. Can we just try keep it simple and kick to a forward line with great readers of flight and great contested marks. Especially since we have shown for years we can't kick it in there with accuracy. Play to our strengths, our gun marks. It would work straight away. I swear May has gotten more intercepts than our forwards get marks in a game ATM

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    On 13/04/2025 at 15:53, dees189227 said:

    I worry we'll go down the path of west coast if in fact we aren't already.

    When gawn, may, viney, lever retire we've done nothing to even look at blooding youngsters to come through & replace them.

    Yep, sure.... 🙄

    Lindsay - 18yo

    Langford - 19yo

    Tholstrup - 19yo

    Windsor - 19yo

    Jefferson - 21yo

    Moniz-Wakefield - 21yo

    McVee - 21yo

    van Rooyen - 22yo

    Howes - 22yo

    Woewodin - 22yo

    Sharp - 22yo

    Bowey - 22yo

    Laurie - 23yo

    Turner - 23yo

    Rivers - 23yo

    Pickett - 23yo

    There are only 5 players on our list who haven't had a game yet.

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    14 hours ago, JTR said:

    Yep, sure.... 🙄

    Lindsay - 18yo

    Langford - 19yo

    Tholstrup - 19yo

    Windsor - 19yo

    Jefferson - 21yo

    Moniz-Wakefield - 21yo

    McVee - 21yo

    van Rooyen - 22yo

    Howes - 22yo

    Woewodin - 22yo

    Sharp - 22yo

    Bowey - 22yo

    Laurie - 23yo

    Turner - 23yo

    Rivers - 23yo

    Pickett - 23yo

    There are only 5 players on our list who haven't had a game yet.

    In addition to our 23 players who are under 24, we also have 13 players who are over 29.

    That leaves just 9 players aged 24, 25, 26, 27 or 28 on our list.

    I don’t know how that compares to other clubs but I’d guess it’s not similar to the contending clubs this year.

    PS two of the 9 players in that “prime” age bracket are Henderson and AJ, who only started playing AFL this year and have 7 games of experience combined.

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    16 hours ago, JTR said:

    Yep, sure.... 🙄

    Lindsay - 18yo

    Langford - 19yo

    Tholstrup - 19yo

    Windsor - 19yo

    Jefferson - 21yo

    Moniz-Wakefield - 21yo

    McVee - 21yo

    van Rooyen - 22yo

    Howes - 22yo

    Woewodin - 22yo

    Sharp - 22yo

    Bowey - 22yo

    Laurie - 23yo

    Turner - 23yo

    Rivers - 23yo

    Pickett - 23yo

    There are only 5 players on our list who haven't had a game yet.

    Yeah but they're smaller players and not near the talent of gawn, lever or may. The young midfielders will be ok

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    20 hours ago, kurtneverdied said:

    We know the players aren't the main problem.

    A complete change of off field staff is needed. A new clear communication and role structure model implemented. Everyone answers to multiple people who then report to the CEO and President.

    Get on top of the "Oliver situations" quickly. Drafting and trading have more of a group approach.

    Deal with GameDay problems like the forward line more aggressively. How can it be 4 years of the same!?

    Start dropping senior players to make a statement.

    Try players in different positions. Is Petty and Turner the only ones for a while who has moved positions?

    What makes a good key forward. Firstly they have the read the ball well in flight. Secondly they have to have a strong mark.

    Who are the first 3 you think of?

    For me it's Gawn, May and Lever.

    Yes we would lose a bit in defence and ruck but we have done well without Max in clearances and one of May or Lever can be back to lead them.

    We are at the lowest of lows in the forward line ATM. No targets. No one remotely in form. Can we just try keep it simple and kick to a forward line with great readers of flight and great contested marks. Especially since we have shown for years we can't kick it in there with accuracy. Play to our strengths, our gun marks. It would work straight away. I swear May has gotten more intercepts than our forwards get marks in a game ATM

    You're hired

    Can you start Monday ?

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    2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

    I don’t know how that compares to other clubs but I’d guess it’s not similar to the contending clubs this year.

    I think this is a really good point.

    From memory it (lack of strong middle-career players) was offered as a major (and plausible) reason for the team looking promising but failing to get all that far in the years between Roos righting the ship and the Flag - 2018 aside.

    We had some obviously very good players, but they were either coming to the end or just at the start.

    In 2021, we had:

    Gawn at 29
    May at 29
    Brown at 28
    McDonald at 28
    Viney at 27
    Petracca at 25
    Salem at 25
    Harmes at 25
    Lever at 25
    Brayshaw at 25
    Neal-Bullen at 25
    Fritsch at 24
    Oliver at 23

    Also had numerous players in that age range who contributed during the season and could be considered unlucky not to get a game in the GF.

    EDIT: Just had a look at Geelong 2023 to compare and their "old men" tag was entirely warranted. Majority of best 15 players above 29.

    Edited by The Taciturn Demon

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    17 hours ago, JTR said:

    Yep, sure.... 🙄

    Lindsay - 18yo

    Langford - 19yo

    Tholstrup - 19yo

    Windsor - 19yo

    Jefferson - 21yo

    Moniz-Wakefield - 21yo

    McVee - 21yo

    van Rooyen - 22yo

    Howes - 22yo

    Woewodin - 22yo

    Sharp - 22yo

    Bowey - 22yo

    Laurie - 23yo

    Turner - 23yo

    Rivers - 23yo

    Pickett - 23yo

    There are only 5 players on our list who haven't had a game yet.

    I've colour coded this list for how I see them.

    Green are guys I expect and hope will have long term careers.

    Yellow are guys who still have a bit to prove but have potential.

    Red are guys I see as little more than depth and I doubt will be on a list in three years.

    Out of that we appear to have a decent core of midfielders and small defenders for the future and some so-so KPP's.

    Need more small forwards and simply must improve our spine, especially in the forwardline.

    My other worry is leadership. We have very few players underneath Gawn, Viney and Lever who look like captain material. Guys like Lindsay and Tholstrup appear to have some potential as leaders but they are about 5 years away from being ready for that responsibility.

    If we do go for a full rebuild we need to do what we did when Roos came in and find some leaders from other clubs.

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