Punt on Cousins

[Jarka 767]

I'm not on the moral high ground at all, my reason for not wanting Cousins has nothing to do with morals. Driving while drunk, however, does not have anywhere near as much potential to damage their on field performance as a chronic Ice addiction would. You only need to watch footage of Cousins' preseason training to see how unfit he was.

Ice is one of the most difficult addictions to break, much more difficult than a typical alcohol addiction, and does a heck of a lot more SELF damage (that's all I'm interested in) in the short and long term.

If that's your line it complete bollocks, if everything we read in the papers is true then he was doing it last year as well and his performances on the ground was much better than any Melbourne player.

[Kit Walker 225]

Cousins wasn't unfit in pre-season. He was best on ground in the eagles last practice match before he went on his "sabbatical".

You can't just say he has done this in the past so we can't consider having him on the list. Where do you draw the line - drunk, not turning up to a game, punching someone out at an airport, steroid use, domestic violence, etc. You have to look at each case on its merits and weigh up the risk and the upside.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him as there is too much risk as Maurie said in one of his posts. Nearly 30, high risk lifestyle, excessively expensive for what he would add to MFC. Also, I don't think we as a club for a number of reasons can be seen to be hypocritical and we would be given Paul Gardner's comments earlier in the season.

[Jarka 767]

Tell me why Cousins ran away from his car and the booze bus again?

I have no idea and neither do you.

[Jarka 767]

Cousins wasn't unfit in pre-season. He was best on ground in the eagles last practice match before he went on his "sabbatical".

You can't just say he has done this in the past so we can't consider having him on the list. Where do you draw the line - drunk, not turning up to a game, punching someone out at an airport, steroid use, domestic violence, etc. You have to look at each case on its merits and weigh up the risk and the upside.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him as there is too much risk as Maurie said in one of his posts. Nearly 30, high risk lifestyle, excessively expensive for what he would add to MFC. Also, I don't think we as a club for a number of reasons can be seen to be hypocritical and we would be given Paul Gardner's comments earlier in the season.

Melbourne has always been the type of club to move 'difficult' players along, Martin Pike is an example of that. Pagan, Matthews and Worsfold have been known to try and work with these type of gifted but troubled players to help them and get the best out of them.

Compare the number of premierships these coaches have won to how many we have won in the same time frame. Melbourne is a conservative club, never wanting to do anything that may be considered controversial, which may explain why we haven't been successful for so long.

[Deelusioned 0]

I have no idea and neither do you.

ummm, how's about booze or coke or ice or all three? you name it was probably pumping through benny's veins that night. Think we can all speculate on that one.

[mauriesy 7,384]

I have no idea and neither do you.

Really? Not hard to put two and two together ... he didn't want to get caught for something illegal.

Is driving a car under the influence of drugs better than driving while drunk? You were the one who said "driving while completely drunk has the potential to kill other completely innocent people". What about driving while under the influence of Ice?

And Cousins was found wandering the streets of Melbourne near Crown Casino in a blind stupor after a game, unable to even recognise where he was.

I'm happy to take the moral high-ground ... he is not the sort of player I'd ever want, despite how wonderful he was as a player. If we took him, we'd be stepping into the same cess pond as the Eagles.

[Jarka 767]

ummm, how's about booze or coke or ice or all three? you name it was probably pumping through benny's veins that night. Think we can all speculate on that one.

Except it's rare that anyone who is on ice or another similiar hardcore drug would drink alot of alcohol, so your speculation onthe surface looks inaccurate.

[Jarka 767]

Really? Not hard to put two and two together ... he didn't want to get caught for something illegal.

Is driving a car under the influence of drugs better than driving while drunk? You were the one who said "driving while completely drunk has the potential to kill other completely innocent people". What about driving while under the influence of Ice?

And Cousins was found wandering the streets of Melbourne near Crown Casino in a blind stupor after a game, unable to even recognise where he was.

I'm happy to take the moral high-ground ... he is not the sort of player I'd ever want, despite how wonderful he was as a player. If we took him, we'd be stepping into the same cess pond as the Eagles.

Thankyou for proving my point, why are we so hard on Cousins but we welcomed our other recent high profile trade with open arms?

[mauriesy 7,384]

Compare the number of premierships these coaches have won to how many we have won in the same time frame. Melbourne is a conservative club, never wanting to do anything that may be considered controversial, which may explain why we haven't been successful for so long.

That is really drawing a long bow.

Let's take all the malcontents, druggos and misfits and win a premiership!

P.S. Carlton was really patient with Angwin.

[Deelusioned 0]

Except it's rare that anyone who is on ice or another similiar hardcore drug would drink alot of alcohol, so your speculation onthe surface looks inaccurate.

Ah no, that's not entirely true, people can handle alcohol better if they are on a "hardcore drug." Regardless, drugs or alcohol, he was affected by something otherwise why run?

Anyho, I don't want him - 3-4 years ago yes, but not a 29 y.o with a hell of a lot of baggage.

[Jarka 767]

That is really drawing a long bow.

No it's not.

[Jarka 767]

Ah no, that's not entirely true, people can handle alcohol better if they are on a "hardcore drug." Regardless, drugs or alcohol, he was affected by something otherwise why run?

Anyho, I don't want him - 3-4 years ago yes, but not a 29 y.o with a hell of a lot of baggage.

At rave parties water is the biggest seller, not alcohol.

[praha 11,250]

I don't want a drug addict at my club. I don't feel sorry for him and never will. It was his decision to take the drug for the first time, and in doing so broke the law, and insulted everyone who looks up to him. He is the scum of the AFL and he doesnt deserve to play another AFL game. 1 strike and your out imo.

[Jarka 767]

The most amusing thing about this topic is that Cousins is not alone with his off field actions. Every single club has players doing exactly the same thing, Victorian clubs included. If you're all naive enough to think he is the only one then that's sad, I just wonder if you'll all respond the same way if/when one of our players are caught.

Leaving the PC now so will continue the debate later.

[Deelusioned 0]

At rave parties water is the biggest seller, not alcohol.

Ok, well that's all the evidence I need then. Ben was completely sober, but maybe a nose full of somethign, but that's fine bc he'd been hitting the waters all night.

So the night he was found non-compos at South Bank, he would have jsut been drinking booze yes, no ice or coke or whatever else? Benny doesn't mix?

[praha 11,250]

The most amusing thing about this topic is that Cousins is not alone with his off field actions. Every single club has players doing exactly the same thing, Victorian clubs included. If you're all naive enough to think he is the only one then that's sad, I just wonder if you'll all respond the same way if/when one of our players are caught.

Leaving the PC now so will continue the debate later.

Yes I would. I wouldnt care who it was. I don't want to be paying my membership, which is partly used to pay their salary, while they play high on cocaine. It's unfair, wrong, unethical and illegal. Ben Cousins has taken full advantage of the system imo and I have no doubt in my mind that he was caught once before and on the second time decided something had to be done so as not to be caught a third time. Fancy someone in his position, leader at one of the most successful sporting clubs in the country, playing a professional sport, in the eye of the public where people admire and look up to you, while high on cocaine. If he, or any other player caught take illeciet drugs, plays against or for my team, I'll boo till my lungs are sore and my face red. No sympathy, no respect and no understanding. I don't want any drug addicts at my club.

[mauriesy 7,384]

The most amusing thing about this topic is that Cousins is not alone with his off field actions. Every single club has players doing exactly the same thing, Victorian clubs included. If you're all naive enough to think he is the only one then that's sad, I just wonder if you'll all respond the same way if/when one of our players are caught.

So here's a continuum of some real player behaviours, from bad to moderate to nothing. All the information is on the public record through the media or the courts, so I don't think it's startling or slanderous:

Player who is an admitted drug addict (2007); ran away from a booze bus and subsequently convicted for obstructing police and obstructing traffic (2006); found disoriented on the streets of Melbourne and jailed for four hours (2006); received phone calls from Perth underworld figures before and after a shooting (2005); punched his teammate (Kerr) in the face in a nightclub incident (2002) (Cousins).

6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player with three drink driving offences, one of which occasioned a six-month suspended jail term reduced to a community-based intensive corrections order (1996) (Pike)

5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player with a second offence of driving over the prescribed blood alcohol limit (0.121), driving while disqualified and driving without due care (after an accident in 2004). (Pickett)

4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Players who admitted to a serious gambling problem and debts to bookmakers (e.g. Ward, TJ, Schwarz)

3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player who received an intervention order after an incident with his girlfriend (Sylvia)

2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player who got drunk once post-season in a well-known casino and was helped home by the police (Neitz)

1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player with no 'record' whatsoever (put Bruce in here since you noted him as a possible "out" to Cousins)

Firstly, those below 5 show that we do work with players to help them with certain levels of personal problems and retain their productive contribution to the team on the field. Secondly, you can argue where you want to draw the line, but I'm definitely drawing it at 6 (probably 5) for any player.

[beelzebub 23,389]

I might swap 4 for 3 there.. one has an other as victim...one doesnt... otherwise good list.

Its a perfect world huh...lol

[Nasher 33,617]

If that's your line it complete bollocks, if everything we read in the papers is true then he was doing it last year as well and his performances on the ground was much better than any Melbourne player.

I don't know how much I believe. I've known a few people who have had their lives ruined by the drug in question and based on my experience, I very highly doubt he had much of a problem prior to the end of the season last year.

[tooly 0]

If he can play good footy lets get the man, if he he over the drama he will be a great player.

He is only 28 he must have 5 years left in him.

[Jarka 767]

So here's a continuum of some real player behaviours, from bad to moderate to nothing. All the information is on the public record through the media or the courts, so I don't think it's startling or slanderous:

Player who is an admitted drug addict (2007); ran away from a booze bus and subsequently convicted for obstructing police and obstructing traffic (2006); found disoriented on the streets of Melbourne and jailed for four hours (2006); received phone calls from Perth underworld figures before and after a shooting (2005); punched his teammate (Kerr) in the face in a nightclub incident (2002) (Cousins).

6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player with three drink driving offences, one of which occasioned a six-month suspended jail term reduced to a community-based intensive corrections order (1996) (Pike)

5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player with a second offence of driving over the prescribed blood alcohol limit (0.121), driving while disqualified and driving without due care (after an accident in 2004). (Pickett)

4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Players who admitted to a serious gambling problem and debts to bookmakers (e.g. Ward, TJ, Schwarz)

3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player who received an intervention order after an incident with his girlfriend (Sylvia)

2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player who got drunk once post-season in a well-known casino and was helped home by the police (Neitz)

1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Player with no 'record' whatsoever (put Bruce in here since you noted him as a possible "out" to Cousins)

Firstly, those below 5 show that we do work with players to help them with certain levels of personal problems and retain their productive contribution to the team on the field. Secondly, you can argue where you want to draw the line, but I'm definitely drawing it at 6 (probably 5) for any player.

Sylvia didn't have an intervention order taken out against him, just one example of why your post is a crock.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

Sylvia didn't have an intervention order taken out against him, just one example of why your post is a crock.

i think ull find ur wrong... their...

deffinatley somthin that went on if not an intervention order... his point stands non the less

[Jarka 767]

I don't know how much I believe. I've known a few people who have had their lives ruined by the drug in question and based on my experience, I very highly doubt he had much of a problem prior to the end of the season last year.

So, by your own words if he performs well on the field you 'very highly doubt' that he had much of a problem with addiction because his life would be 'ruined' by the drug in question. But, as Kit Walker has already pointed out Cousins was on fire in this years pre-season, he was BOG in at least one practice match - so by using your reasoning he can't have much of a problem this year either.

This is using your own logic.

[Jaded No More 68,975]

He is a good player, yes, but he also happens to have a problem with substance abuse and mixing with the wrong crowds.

I definitely wouldn't want him influencing the likes of McLean, Jones, Bell, Petterd, Bate, Dunn and the list goes on...

There is more to it than just being a good footballer. For the amount of money you'd have to pay him, you'd also want him to be a model citizen and not cause any turmoil.

His on-field output will be very quickly canceled out by any off-field indiscretion which brings the club into disrepute. Don't forget, we haven't got the money or the power to deal with this sort of stuff the way West Coast does.

[Jarka 767]

Ok, well that's all the evidence I need then. Ben was completely sober, but maybe a nose full of somethign, but that's fine bc he'd been hitting the waters all night.

So the night he was found non-compos at South Bank, he would have jsut been drinking booze yes, no ice or coke or whatever else? Benny doesn't mix?

As I said earlier, no one but Cousins knows what he did that night. I don't know and all you're doing is speculating. You have no evidence to prove your theory.