26 minutes ago, rpfc said:

My main frustration with the ‘loading conversation’ was how myopic it became in the affirmative. In 2022 I was trying to point out that we have changed (ruined?) our game style to protect our mids (long bombs into the pocket) and last year that we needed to up our transition game to compete with the best. 

And yet this place was just having this binary fascination with a sports physiology preparation technique that most teams employ; I’m seeing ‘noise’ in the data and with my eyes because we are in a loading phase of the season.

By the by, credit where it is due. 

Goody has embraced the transition model you discussed way back 2022.

And iirc you also were strong on the physical challenge of the model we used week in week out - which I think is arguably the biggest factor in our changed method - keep the troops fresher for finals and not so banged up.

47 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That’s the one

 10 Goal loss to West Coast. 
 

Something was seriously wrong….

I'm not denying that there was, but are you therefore suggesting that things are no longer broken? To right the ship in season is pretty crazy.

Edited July 16, 20241 yr by Binmans PA

36 minutes ago, binman said:

I hear what you are saying rp, but one of my major frustrations about the discussion is what I see as a complete myth that it was a 'binary fascination' and that those who were wanting to discuss were implying it was the only factor.

People such as myself, and several others I could point to, have been at pains to clarify that it not an excuse and there are any number of other factors in the mix (for example tactics, method, psychology, form et etc)

And besides such voices were, and remain, decidedly in the minority so were hardly shutting down conversation about the topics you note.

But I do agree the discussion became tedious, and I am as much to blame for that ss anyone, so I'll go back to not discussing it. 

I think your memory deceives you. 

For there where games we'd lose and you'd point to 'fatigue' due to the loading phase we were in. Yet there were also games you'd expect us to bounce from, which we'd end up losing all the while still looking 'fatigued'. 

The level of tediousness came down to how you seemed to pick and choose depending on our performances and how those performances would line up to where you believed our loading phase should be across a season. And then the pile on began. 

I think we can all admit that loading is a thing. But to measure just how much of an influence it has game-to-game is almost pointless given the multitude of factors that force results. This especially so given that some teams are still able to win even in a 'loading' phase. 

Edited July 16, 20241 yr by middleagedemon

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

different era with 1 extra game per home and away season with the advent of 'gil's round'

13 wins is the new 12 wins

 Last year there were 18 teams playing 23 games each. This year there are 18 teams playing 23 games each. How is it different? 

25 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I'm not denying that there was, but are you therefore suggesting that things are no longer broken? To right the ship in season is pretty crazy.

I don't quite understand this. It lacks your usual clarity BPA.

Are you saying teams can't right the ship mid season ?

4 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I don't quite understand this. It lacks your usual clarity BPA.

Are you saying teams can't right the ship mid season ?

If something was seriously wrong (again, I don't deny that there were issues because I heard some stuff too), I don't think we would have responded how we did.

Because the response to the Eagles match was to come out and beat St Kilda, and then proceed to lose to Freo by almost 100 points.

Perhaps the post KB bye allowed us to re-set some stuff, but if "something was seriously wrong", IMO, we don't then come out post bye how we have.

2 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

If something was seriously wrong (again, I don't deny that there were issues because I heard some stuff too), I don't think we would have responded how we did.

Because the response to the Eagles match was to come out and beat St Kilda, and then proceed to lose to Freo by almost 100 points.

Perhaps the post KB bye allowed us to re-set some stuff, but if "something was seriously wrong", IMO, we don't then come out post bye how we have.

I think we're on different wavelengths here.

I haven't heard any "stuff". I simply wanted clarification on your view of teams being able  ( or not) to right the ship mid season.

2 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I think we're on different wavelengths here.

I haven't heard any "stuff". I simply wanted clarification on your view of teams being able  ( or not) to right the ship mid season.

Of course, it is possible for a team to right a ship mid season, and we've seen this with Collingwood and Carlton in successive seasons. But our particular circumstance, where we lose to a bottom 2 side by 6 goals (our biggest loss in 4+ years) and then to win a game and then lose by 92 the next week, I just don't think it's possible to right that ship if there were serious issues.

Which means I have no idea what the heck was happening during those rounds 10-12. 

Whatever people thought at the start of the season I doubt anyone here thought we’d be playing this well without Gawn, Petracca and Brayshaw and having Oliver in limp home mode. Not to mention having TMac playing the way he is as a key defender. Throw in some off season [censored]  storms and it’s  been a pretty amazing effort and shows some serious resilience has been built into this team. Now just give us some luck with injuries and it’s game on. 
Time to unleash hell!

Edited July 16, 20241 yr by Roost it far

i’ve tried a few ladder predictors. 13 wins should get us in. 

i have us on 14 wins playing bombers in the first final 

that would be sweet! 20 years ago n from their last win

18 minutes ago, DubDee said:

i’ve tried a few ladder predictors. 13 wins should get us in. 

i have us on 14 wins playing bombers in the first final 

that would be sweet! 20 years ago n from their last win

Don’t want to rock your boat too much, but I hate those scum bags supporters. I hope they miss. Probably stems from the cheer squad days picking up the gear and having a serious dispute with a group of the baaastsrds.   Not their CS, others just looking cause angst, but definitely scumbag supporters at Windy Hill.  They still make me cringe. 

1 hour ago, Oxdee said:

 Last year there were 18 teams playing 23 games each. This year there are 18 teams playing 23 games each. How is it different? 

different era started last year obviously

13 wins to make finals will become the norm, i expect

2 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

I'm not denying that there was, but are you therefore suggesting that things are no longer broken? To right the ship in season is pretty crazy.

There was something going on with the playing group in the  West Coast/Freo period. I don’t know what it was, but the Team is back playing with aggression 

This is a crazy Season 

13 hours ago, Kent said:

I have a feeling the DEES are about to get on a roll

6 - 0 wins is more than possible and will give momentum

we get past the Fockers and we could go all the way

41 reasons to get on a roll this year.

2 hours ago, middleagedemon said:

I think your memory deceives you. 

For there where games we'd lose and you'd point to 'fatigue' due to the loading phase we were in. Yet there were also games you'd expect us to bounce from, which we'd end up losing all the while still looking 'fatigued'. 

The level of tediousness came down to how you seemed to pick and choose depending on our performances and how those performances would line up to where you believed our loading phase should be across a season. And then the pile on began. 

I think we can all admit that loading is a thing. But to measure just how much of an influence it has game-to-game is almost pointless given the multitude of factors that force results. This especially so given that some teams are still able to win even in a 'loading' phase. 

You obviously haven’t read articles or listened to discussions (not Binman’s) where the High Performance teams are arguably one of the most important factors. It’s not rocket science that you have to keep the performance levels of teams..players to a level that has them “cherry ripe” for finals but  the challenge this year is there’s been an extra game ,,,5 day breaks ..some teams with 2 byes etc. Players would also have their own personal programs ..,goals etc. This year has had more anomalies in terms of scoring ..results..upsets that I can remember..so good luck trying to work out all that & also when “other teams “ are loading. Whether you want to acknowledge this or not football is a science ..we only see the obvious things but it’s what we don’t know & shouldn’t know.. is quite simply what goes  on between those four walls. 

3 hours ago, middleagedemon said:

I think your memory deceives you. 

For there where games we'd lose and you'd point to 'fatigue' due to the loading phase we were in. Yet there were also games you'd expect us to bounce from, which we'd end up losing all the while still looking 'fatigued'. 

The level of tediousness came down to how you seemed to pick and choose depending on our performances and how those performances would line up to where you believed our loading phase should be across a season. And then the pile on began. 

I think we can all admit that loading is a thing. But to measure just how much of an influence it has game-to-game is almost pointless given the multitude of factors that force results. This especially so given that some teams are still able to win even in a 'loading' phase. 

That's the biggest load of old cobblers I've ever read.

But illuminating - the penny has just dropped.

Couldn't stay away huh?

That's funny.

Timing's right.

Pop up when we start losing.

Alas, like clock work the good form and wins return.

So I guess you be leaving soon.

In the meantime, see ya.

Edited July 16, 20241 yr by binman

To avoid the derailing of this thread with another 'Loading' debate, how is this for a Run Home:

• Round 24 - Dees safely in the 8.  Pies must win to make finals.  They don't ...
• EF - Beat Ess relegating them yet again to no finals win in a trillion years ...
• SF - Beat Geelong because we don't like their smugness ...
• PF - Beat Carlton by < 6pts, on a bad 'touched' goal call ie how they beat us in last 3 games. 
• GF - Dees win vs whoever

... and as a bonus all games are at the G.

One can only dream, eh ...

Back to reality:  Ride the wave of enjoyment the 'Baby Demons' are giving us, then Que Sera Sera !!

 

ps.  i've shown admirable restraint not putting a smug 🤣  at the end of each bullet point just in case the footy karma gods come after me and our beloved demons...

Edited July 16, 20241 yr by Lucifers Hero

24 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

To avoid the derailing of this thread with another 'Loading' debate, how is this for a Run Home:

• Round 24 - Dees safely in the 8.  Pies must win to make finals.  They don't ...
• EF - Beat Ess relegating them yet again to no finals win in a trillion years ...
• PF - Beat Carlton by < 6pts, on a bad 'touched' goal call ie how they beat us in last 3 games. 
• GF - Dees win vs whoever

... and as a bonus all games are at the G.

One can only dream, eh ...

Back to reality:  Ride the wave of enjoyment the 'Baby Demons' are giving us, then Que Sera Sera !!

 

ps.  i've shown admirable restraint and not put a smug 🤣  at the end of each bullet point just in case the footy karma gods come after me and our beloved demons...

Nice, but you're missing a triumphant SF in that set Luci.

3 minutes ago, old55 said:

Nice, but you're missing a triumphant SF in that set Luci.

LOL!!  Its early, need another espresso!!

Now fxed!  I'll make it a win vs Geelong.

Edited July 16, 20241 yr by Lucifers Hero

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

To avoid the derailing of this thread with another 'Loading' debate, how is this for a Run Home:

• Round 24 - Dees safely in the 8.  Pies must win to make finals.  They don't ...
• EF - Beat Ess relegating them yet again to no finals win in a trillion years ...
• SF - Beat Geelong because we don't like their smugness ...
• PF - Beat Carlton by < 6pts, on a bad 'touched' goal call ie how they beat us in last 3 games. 
• GF - Dees win vs whoever

... and as a bonus all games are at the G.

One can only dream, eh ...

Back to reality:  Ride the wave of enjoyment the 'Baby Demons' are giving us, then Que Sera Sera !!

 

ps.  i've shown admirable restraint not putting a smug 🤣  at the end of each bullet point just in case the footy karma gods come after me and our beloved demons...

Ok, how about this LH - let’s take the lid off if we beat Freo over there and come back and beat GWS the week after.

8 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Ok, how about this LH - let’s take the lid off if we beat Freo over there and come back and beat GWS the week after.

That's when I'm happy to take the lid off.

Particularly, if other results go our way. Like Essendon losing one or both of their next games against Adelaide and St Kilda at Marvel. And Brisbane losing to Sydney and/or Gold Coast.

Edited July 17, 20241 yr by Binmans PA

13 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

If something was seriously wrong (again, I don't deny that there were issues because I heard some stuff too), I don't think we would have responded how we did.

Because the response to the Eagles match was to come out and beat St Kilda, and then proceed to lose to Freo by almost 100 points.

Perhaps the post KB bye allowed us to re-set some stuff, but if "something was seriously wrong", IMO, we don't then come out post bye how we have.

I can't remember which player said it in an interview in the last week or so (maybe Melksham or Rivers or ANB?) - but they said the bye allowed us to make some tweaks to the game plan that has made a difference.

Obviously it's a lot more than that - the agression we started v Brisbane and WCE with that we had for much of the bombers game seemed so different from what we'd seen in recent times... and that seemed more effort based than system / game plan.

The next 2 are the toughest of the run home, plus GC never a pushover up there and the Dogs and Pies will be up for a fight. Finals have started.
Get it done Dee’s. 

Edited July 17, 20241 yr by Roost it far

To be clear - I haven't abandoned my oracular declaration that we will not lose another game this season and Melksham will finish his career in the greatest blaze of glory ever known.

However...

Gee, it's gonna be tough this weekend.

16 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

To be clear - I haven't abandoned my oracular declaration that we will not lose another game this season and Melksham will finish his career in the greatest blaze of glory ever known.

However...

Gee, it's gonna be tough this weekend.

I think Melksham will play next year. He’s only 32, very fit and has just given his body 12 months of rehab.