Trade Targets

[drysdale demon 4,830]

5 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

He would be the perfect replacement but he's a Geelong boy who wouldn't entertain leaving and is about to take over from Stanley.

Agree, he isn't leaving Geelong at all.

[Wells 11 5,397]

I think the body shape needed for a ruck may have changed with the new rules. If we’re looking to add a replacement ruckman then maybe we need to look at a big bodied boofhead ruck. They seem like valuable property now. Briggs and Xerri have both got the better of Max. 

[BW511 2,668]

Absolutely it has, look at Sean Darcy. He looks like a very unfit club ruckman, he’s just enormous

[whatwhat say what 22,742]

38 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

I think the body shape needed for a ruck may have changed with the new rules. If we’re looking to add a replacement ruckman then maybe we need to look at a big bodied boofhead ruck. They seem like valuable property now. Briggs and Xerri have both got the better of Max. 

especially with the ball up rather than bounce in the middle

it definitely suits the physical ruckmen as opposed to the lighter-framed likes of gawn

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

1 hour ago, Wells 11 said:

I think the body shape needed for a ruck may have changed with the new rules. If we’re looking to add a replacement ruckman then maybe we need to look at a big bodied boofhead ruck. They seem like valuable property now. Briggs and Xerri have both got the better of Max. 

Forget body shape, give me the Mick Nolan's of the world as our next ruck.

[Roger Mellie 4,012]

2 hours ago, Wells 11 said:

I think the body shape needed for a ruck may have changed with the new rules. If we’re looking to add a replacement ruckman then maybe we need to look at a big bodied boofhead ruck. They seem like valuable property now. Briggs and Xerri have both got the better of Max. 

Brayden Crossley fits that profile but I have no idea what he's up to now or if he's even playing footy.

[BScotti 178]

Out of frustration and a reminder of hope and opportunity, I watched the 21 GF replay, and a couple of things really stood out to me:

- The unexpected loss of both Jackson and Gus significantly hurt us structurally, and was/is a huge dent in our planning for long term success and list management.  Its not like you can just flick a switch to replace those two.

- Add to that the injury this year to Tracs and to a lesser extent delivery from Spargo, and our structure and balance has seriously been thrown out.

- Give Clarry a full preseason to get back to where he was prior to this season.

- The importance of #1 FWD in BBB was critical to balance, however his early deterioration of his knees also offset our balance and plans a couple of years early.

- I remain excited about the work put into the kids on the squad, and the opportunity for a sustainable rebound however with the two major losses it probably shortened our window unless we can be creative with new experienced additions, given we wont have the same draft capital available as we need to replace, especially given the age profile of our stars - we no longer have the same time period.

- So as I see it our priorities remain:

1. Ruck support for Max - not back up ruck playing at Casey, actual capable ruck/fwd playing regularly in best 22 "in LJ style".  requires a tweak to Goody current plan and gets back to what worked for us.  Im not saying we have to go out and get it, but perhaps its Verral/Fullo now and look to draft our next Ruck.

2. Rebound defender/class mid user - Gus role was so important as it supported defence but gave us a qulaity mid and fwd delivery option which we have lost.  So the need to further support Lever/May and while Riv has/can play that role, someone like a Houston is probably a really good fit to complement.  Given I presume Tomlinson will see the light and leave seeing its clear Goody has no role for him (other than break glass in case of emergency), + see 4 below.

3. Strong Key Fwd to take #1 defender, to allow growth of JVR and Jeffo next year and remove pressure of Fritch and Melk who are not contested fwd's and can be freed up.  Someone like a Waterman would be good for the time we need him.  BBB filled that role beautifully until his knees gave out.  

4. Petty to go back to defence where he was so strong and in his element.  I thought it ironic in the commentary of GF21 where they said, "Petty has been amazing since coming for the injured Tomlinson and has not missed a beat".   He is a defender - play him primarily as a defender with the ability to swing on a case by case basis.   I presume also TMac wont have another year as strong as he did this year.  Petty can take his place and TMac can play the Jonesey role on a game by game basis and educate the defenders coming through.

5. Midfield depth required.  

Targets on horizon - Mac Andrew (Trade target), Kalani White (draft target), Dev Robertson (trade)

[demoniac 1,333]

18 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

I'm sure we've had one or two of those. Paul Johnson (admittedly from yesteryear) springs to mind.

Late career way past his best David Grant from St Kilda!

[Adam The God 30,220]

2 hours ago, BScotti said:

Out of frustration and a reminder of hope and opportunity, I watched the 21 GF replay, and a couple of things really stood out to me:

- The unexpected loss of both Jackson and Gus significantly hurt us structurally, and was/is a huge dent in our planning for long term success and list management.  Its not like you can just flick a switch to replace those two.

- Add to that the injury this year to Tracs and to a lesser extent delivery from Spargo, and our structure and balance has seriously been thrown out.

- Give Clarry a full preseason to get back to where he was prior to this season.

- The importance of #1 FWD in BBB was critical to balance, however his early deterioration of his knees also offset our balance and plans a couple of years early.

- I remain excited about the work put into the kids on the squad, and the opportunity for a sustainable rebound however with the two major losses it probably shortened our window unless we can be creative with new experienced additions, given we wont have the same draft capital available as we need to replace, especially given the age profile of our stars - we no longer have the same time period.

- So as I see it our priorities remain:

1. Ruck support for Max - not back up ruck playing at Casey, actual capable ruck/fwd playing regularly in best 22 "in LJ style".  requires a tweak to Goody current plan and gets back to what worked for us.  Im not saying we have to go out and get it, but perhaps its Verral/Fullo now and look to draft our next Ruck.

2. Rebound defender/class mid user - Gus role was so important as it supported defence but gave us a qulaity mid and fwd delivery option which we have lost.  So the need to further support Lever/May and while Riv has/can play that role, someone like a Houston is probably a really good fit to complement.  Given I presume Tomlinson will see the light and leave seeing its clear Goody has no role for him (other than break glass in case of emergency), + see 4 below.

3. Strong Key Fwd to take #1 defender, to allow growth of JVR and Jeffo next year and remove pressure of Fritch and Melk who are not contested fwd's and can be freed up.  Someone like a Waterman would be good for the time we need him.  BBB filled that role beautifully until his knees gave out.  

4. Petty to go back to defence where he was so strong and in his element.  I thought it ironic in the commentary of GF21 where they said, "Petty has been amazing since coming for the injured Tomlinson and has not missed a beat".   He is a defender - play him primarily as a defender with the ability to swing on a case by case basis.   I presume also TMac wont have another year as strong as he did this year.  Petty can take his place and TMac can play the Jonesey role on a game by game basis and educate the defenders coming through.

5. Midfield depth required.  

Targets on horizon - Mac Andrew (Trade target), Kalani White (draft target), Dev Robertson (trade)

Good post mate. Couple of things.

In answer to "1" - if we have JVR as the ruck/forward, Turner and hopefully Jefferson to support, I like the idea of a Waterman, but salary cap and trade capital make that difficult if we prioritise other needs higher, which IMO we should. Like midfield and ball use behind the ball. So I'd be playing JVR, Turner and Petty forward until TMac and May retire, then shift Petty back then.

In answer to "2" - Agree with the need for more class behind the ball, particularly with the transition game and the ability to hit kicks not many can. We have such great structure behind the ball, that if we had some real kickers, we'd be able to really go for it regularly and would still maintain some structure behind the ball. 

I don't however think Gus was a classy ball user off half back in our premiership year, he was our defensive winger. Even when he moved to half back, he was elite by hand or foot. Gus' main strengths were his versatility, contested ability, his reading of the play and leadership. Bringing in a Houston might give us some traits that go some way to filling the void left by Gus' retirement.

In answer to "3" - As above, Waterman would be nice, but I'm not sure our salary cap and trade capital is best spent here, when we have larger priorities. I think we can make a mobile tall and mid-sized forwardline work as we did for most of 2021.

In answer to "4" - I agree with this, but not immediately. If TMac plays on, which I hope he does for one more year, he won't play on if he knows he has the Jones role. He's already hinted that this year would be his last. There is no point in going around again if it's to play in the VFL. So I think we want TMac to go around one more year. Then Petty can replace TMac in 2026 while Kalani develops, then Petty shifts to May's spot when he retires and Kalani shifts to Petty's. Then there's Jed Adams. Does he make it? It's really hard to tell. Not many would have thought either McVee or AMW would make it based on some of their VFL football, but they're both locks for mine now.

In answer to "5" - I think this is why we can't do everything we'd like vis a vis "3", because we need more midfield support. I don't like the "midfield depth" line, because I think it's probably more we need a greater spread of elite talent that can play through there. If Clarry and Trac are back to somewhere near their best next year, another pre season for Kozzy, McVee, Rivers, we then have Viney, plus Sparrow and ANB that can run through their too. What happens to Laurie? Can he solidify a spot? But we need elite talent. Is it the top 10 pick this year? 

There are so many permutations to list management this off season. Do we manage to hold onto our top 10 pick by trading a future 1st for someone like Houston? Then hit the free agency market for Cumming from GWS. So we fill two needs, half back ball use with Cumming and Houston, more elite midfield support with Houston and a top 10 youngster, and it allows us to slide McVee into midfield, I'd be trying AMW as a small lockdown defender (reminds me a lot of a quicker Nev Jetta), and maybe there's some cheap cover in free agency or trades for another defender to enable Rivers and McVee to play genuine midfield minutes. And where does Blake Howes, who I rate, fit into all of this? At the back or on one of the wings, where he played most of his junior footy?

So I think my ideal off season would be having TMac sign a one year deal, landing Houston, Cumming, a top 10 youngster and maybe a cheap free agent/or trade to provide lockdown defender cover, and back ourselves to trade back into the 2025 first round of the draft, knowing we will have Kalani as a F/S anyway. I don't think that ideal is that outlandish. I'd love to add Waterman, but I think that's probably pushing the bounds of our salary cap and reality.

 

Edited July 30 by Binmans PA

[whatwhat say what 22,742]

6 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

So I think my ideal off season would be having TMac sign a one year deal, landing Houston, Cumming, a top 10 youngster and a maybe a cheap free agent/or trade, and back ourselves to trade back into the 2025 first round of the draft, knowing we will have Kalani as a F/S anyway. I don't think this is that outlandish. I'd love to add Waterman, but I think that's probably pushing the bounds of our salary cap and reality.

personally my ideal off-season sees us revelling in winning a premiership after winning the next 8 games in a row...

i think it'll be houston OR a top 10 draft pick @Binmans PA

can't see us achieving both this 2024 post-season

the other names we've been linked to are cumming and angwin from gw$, both of whom have struggled with injury throughout their careers thus far, but both of who could help fill out our depth as half-back / wing types

in reality tho neither are in the seem class as dan houston - i tend to be 'all in' for him as he and rivers would perfectly completely each other as half-back / midfielders in our side

in 2025 we're likely to have two picks we're taking outside of the draft - an nga and a father-son pick - which will give us the forward / ruck that we want (Tairon Ah-Mu) and a tall defender (Kalani White) to add to our tall depth

the fact that they'll be coming onto the list at the end of 2025 increases my keenness for tom mcdonald to play on and help bridge the gap, given that the likes of adam tomlinson and ben brown are likely to off the list at the end of this season

 

[Deelectable 1,043]

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

personally my ideal off-season sees us revelling in winning a premiership after winning the next 8 games in a row...

i think it'll be houston OR a top 10 draft pick @Binmans PA

can't see us achieving both this 2024 post-season

the other names we've been linked to are cumming and angwin from gw$, both of whom have struggled with injury throughout their careers thus far, but both of who could help fill out our depth as half-back / wing types

in reality tho neither are in the seem class as dan houston - i tend to be 'all in' for him as he and rivers would perfectly completely each other as half-back / midfielders in our side

in 2025 we're likely to have two picks we're taking outside of the draft - an nga and a father-son pick - which will give us the forward / ruck that we want (Tairon Ah-Mu) and a tall defender (Kalani White) to add to our tall depth

the fact that they'll be coming onto the list at the end of 2025 increases my keenness for tom mcdonald to play on and help bridge the gap, given that the likes of adam tomlinson and ben brown are likely to off the list at the end of this season

 

Houston has emphatically stated he's going nowhere.

[whatwhat say what 22,742]

17 minutes ago, Deelectable said:

Houston has emphatically stated he's going nowhere.

yes, which is why i presume we'll be taking a first round pick to the draft in 2024

[Roger Mellie 4,012]

How about we give GWS pick 44 for Peatling (the pick we received for Toby Bedford).

[Redleg 40,895]

1 hour ago, Roger Mellie said:

How about we give GWS pick 44 for Peatling (the pick we received for Toby Bedford).

You will have to get Peatling to choose us first and to demand a trade to us second.

[middleagedemon 325]

The Houston links I just can't understand. He's on a 3-4 year deal isn't he? And we're thinking we'll prize him out by offering what kind of draft capital? 

It just screams like a desperate Essendon or Carlton move a few years back when they were convinced they were flag fancies. 

Isaac Cumming I completely understand, he's a RFA. But honestly, does anyone in their right mind believe we are going to make a big play to 2.0 version of Christian Salem who is under contract? 

It would murder our list management. 

I liked @BScotti's post and thought they identified some key areas that have hit us really hard and we've still not worked it out. 

The Jackson role replacement is paramount for an ageing Max I'm and I hate the idea of using any of JVR, Disco or Petty in that secondary role. I think it's lunacy throwing Van Rooyen into the ruck given the risks involved and what it takes away from our forwardline. Ben Brown's absence from our forwardline takes so much away from us also. Not necessarily on output, but he was a master of forwardcraft, his leading patterns were so good and that allowed for everyone's roles to be easier. We've not looked the same in that space since his demise. 

Who we find as a Jackson replacement is another thing altogether given the lack of options. But if we're going to prize anyone out under contract, it should be a Jackson replacement. Rowan Marshall for instance. Not a half-back flanker who has had one elite year. Christ. 

It's an issue for sure, especially with Max ageing. I still think we absolutely fluffed the Grundy expiriment and were far too quick to throw it out. I'd have thought it would take a bit longer than a handful of games together to build some synergy and for each to impact in different ways. If only Goody was as stubborn on sticking with it as he is on so many other things. 

I find it so interesting that Goody has been happy to persist with two key defenders playing as key forwards for more than a season but threw out the Grundy/Gawn pairing after a handful of games. It's just wild. Is it any wonder why we've continued to have forwardline functioning and innacuracy issues whilst having Turner and Petty play forward? No. At least the Gawn/Grundy situation gave us ascendency in other areas, even if one of them struggled up forward. And who knows what could have happened after more than a season of them playing together. So bizarre. 

Our midfield is clearly lacking one more creative speedy distributor. And given the talk of how strong this draft is regarding midfield talent, I think it'd be an opportunity missed if we weren't to trade a future first and nail two top mids of this draft. (this is if an opportunity doesn't present itself to prize out a forward/ruck from a club using a pick). 

We can correct over the off-season and I hope we do. Because of the coaching staff believe that we will be challenging again next year without addressing a forward/ruck, addressing our forwardline in general and our midfield, we will be left behind very quickly. 

 

 

[Adam The God 30,220]

10 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

The Houston links I just can't understand. He's on a 3-4 year deal isn't he? And we're thinking we'll prize him out by offering what kind of draft capital? 

It just screams like a desperate Essendon or Carlton move a few years back when they were convinced they were flag fancies. 

Isaac Cumming I completely understand, he's a RFA. But honestly, does anyone in their right mind believe we are going to make a big play to 2.0 version of Christian Salem who is under contract? 

It would murder our list management. 

I liked @BScotti's post and thought they identified some key areas that have hit us really hard and we've still not worked it out. 

The Jackson role replacement is paramount for an ageing Max I'm and I hate the idea of using any of JVR, Disco or Petty in that secondary role. I think it's lunacy throwing Van Rooyen into the ruck given the risks involved and what it takes away from our forwardline. Ben Brown's absence from our forwardline takes so much away from us also. Not necessarily on output, but he was a master of forwardcraft, his leading patterns were so good and that allowed for everyone's roles to be easier. We've not looked the same in that space since his demise. 

Who we find as a Jackson replacement is another thing altogether given the lack of options. But if we're going to prize anyone out under contract, it should be a Jackson replacement. Rowan Marshall for instance. Not a half-back flanker who has had one elite year. Christ. 

It's an issue for sure, especially with Max ageing. I still think we absolutely fluffed the Grundy expiriment and were far too quick to throw it out. I'd have thought it would take a bit longer than a handful of games together to build some synergy and for each to impact in different ways. If only Goody was as stubborn on sticking with it as he is on so many other things. 

I find it so interesting that Goody has been happy to persist with two key defenders playing as key forwards for more than a season but threw out the Grundy/Gawn pairing after a handful of games. It's just wild. Is it any wonder why we've continued to have forwardline functioning and innacuracy issues whilst having Turner and Petty play forward? No. At least the Gawn/Grundy situation gave us ascendency in other areas, even if one of them struggled up forward. And who knows what could have happened after more than a season of them playing together. So bizarre. 

Our midfield is clearly lacking one more creative speedy distributor. And given the talk of how strong this draft is regarding midfield talent, I think it'd be an opportunity missed if we weren't to trade a future first and nail two top mids of this draft. (this is if an opportunity doesn't present itself to prize out a forward/ruck from a club using a pick). 

We can correct over the off-season and I hope we do. Because of the coaching staff believe that we will be challenging again next year without addressing a forward/ruck, addressing our forwardline in general and our midfield, we will be left behind very quickly. 

 

 

I agree with some of this, but you have some blind spots. You talk about not understanding our interest in Houston and then talk about our midfield lacking a speedy distributor. Houston is being targeted precisely for his ball use and to play midfield, not half back. That is how we lure him, with the promise of midfield minutes, which Port clearly aren't prepared to offer.

As for the Gawn/Grundy experiment, I definitely found it bizarre we never tried Max behind the ball and Grundy in the ruck. That could have been an absolute weapon, particularly with a transition slingshot game.

But had Grundy come to us this year, I suspect it's probably a different story in terms of releasing him early from his contract. It's the fact we played finals and left Grundy out, this made him staying untenable.

I'd prefer JVR not playing second ruck either, but he's pretty good at it and as he showed the other night, he's a chance at kicking goals from the ruck. 

Also, is that you, Steve? You have a similar posting style if not.

Edited July 30 by Binmans PA

[Demongirl35 1,053]

Ruck options: Nick Bryan, Peter ladhams? (Can’t believe I’m even saying that), Bailey J Williams(if English goes to the eagles then surely he wants out)

Mids: Ben Hobbs, Will Brodie, Conor Nash, Angus Sheldrick, Ryan Angwin 

Free agents: Cumming and Battle 

 

If we could bring in:

Top 10 pick, Cumming, Battle, A couple of Mids and a ruck I think we did well.

 

Obviously I’d prefer players like Fin Callaghan over the Mids I have named but trying to be realistic 

[Deelectable 1,043]

3 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

yes, which is why i presume we'll be taking a first round pick to the draft in 2024

Yep. Multiple top line midfielders in the top 10 in the draft. Houston is a top player but at 27 and on big coin off half back no thanks.

[middleagedemon 325]

34 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I agree with some of this, but you have some blind spots. You talk about not understanding our interest in Houston and then talk about our midfield lacking a speedy distributor. Houston is being targeted precisely for his ball use and to play midfield, not half back. That is how we lure him, with the promise of midfield minutes, which Port clearly aren't prepared to offer.

As for the Gawn/Grundy experiment, I definitely found it bizarre we never tried Max behind the ball and Grundy in the ruck. That could have been an absolute weapon, particularly with a transition slingshot game.

But had Grundy come to us this year, I suspect it's probably a different story in terms of releasing him early from his contract. It's the fact we played finals and left Grundy out, this made him staying untenable.

I'd prefer JVR not playing second ruck either, but he's pretty good at it and as he showed the other night, he's a chance at kicking goals from the ruck. 

Also, is that you, Steve? You have a similar posting style if not.

I understand the need for foot skills through our midfield, but foot skills is not Houston, I can assure you. 

Houston is a long and penetrative kick, like Rivers. He is not in the McVee mould of kicking or vision. 

He has really average speed and agility and has had one year considered elite where he finished AA as a half back, not midfielder. 

I genuinely sense that posters have confused us going for him as a mid as opposed to a half back replacement for Rivers. If Riv replacement scenario was true, it'd make more sense, but I'm still ultimately confused at the link. 

Houston's traits do not give us anything we don't have in our midfield. I implore posters to watch even some highlights videos of him to get a glimpse. 

The link is bizarro. And as for the two first rounders to get it done hahaha. That's Sam Landsberg (whatever his name is), on yet another pointless footy show talking hypotheticals and thinks that's what it'd take to get him out. Which it probably would given he's under contract for something like four yearssss!! 

The whole thing is just so typical of AFL media. Pick something up that is more than likely utter nonsense, run with it, talk hypotheticals. Next thing you know, dee's are giving up two first rounders for a half back that has had one elite year in the position. Hilarious!

As for who I am. That remains a secret...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(yes, it's me. I'll play nice this time). 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30 by middleagedemon

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

51 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I agree with some of this, but you have some blind spots. You talk about not understanding our interest in Houston and then talk about our midfield lacking a speedy distributor. Houston is being targeted precisely for his ball use and to play midfield, not half back. That is how we lure him, with the promise of midfield minutes, which Port clearly aren't prepared to offer.

As for the Gawn/Grundy experiment, I definitely found it bizarre we never tried Max behind the ball and Grundy in the ruck. That could have been an absolute weapon, particularly with a transition slingshot game.

But had Grundy come to us this year, I suspect it's probably a different story in terms of releasing him early from his contract. It's the fact we played finals and left Grundy out, this made him staying untenable.

I'd prefer JVR not playing second ruck either, but he's pretty good at it and as he showed the other night, he's a chance at kicking goals from the ruck. 

Also, is that you, Steve? You have a similar posting style if not.

I think what he's saying is more around the draft capital we would need to give up for him.

Port will demand a first round pick. We currently have pick 8. Houston will be 28 next year and there is no way he's worth a top 10 pick in my honest opinion.

With where we are at with our list management I think we need to bring in elite midfield talent through the draft and this year's draft is absolutely choc full of them this year especially in the pointy end. I've seen the talent on hand and if we can keep our pick then I'm pretty excited to see what Jason Taylor can work with.

Giving up a first round pick for a 28 old half back flanker doesn't make sense to me as much as hes a gun. You can find cheap good half back flankers through the trade, draft and free agency.

With Tassie coming in, we need to continue to stock pile on talent through the draft if we are to remain competitive.

I can see someone like a Sid Draper for instance coming in and having an immediate impact for us in the midfield similar to a Sam Walsh or Matt Rowell. There are many like him in that first 1-15 bracket.

Edited July 30 by dazzledavey36

[drysdale demon 4,830]

42 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Also, is that you, Steve? You have a similar posting style if not.

Reckon so.

[Demonstone 22,486]

8 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

(yes, it's me. I'll play nice this time). 

What happened last time, Steve?  Did you get drummed out?

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Yeah, what happened to Jimmy Gadson?

[adonski 12,058]

The worse our 1st Round Pick is, the more sense Houston makes

The better it becomes, the less...

[middleagedemon 325]

21 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Yeah, what happened to Jimmy Gadson?

I miss him too.