Andrew Wu (The Age) on our DEECLINE

[demon3165 2,711]

25 minutes ago, 58er said:

 Name names please Such generality is not assisting your argument. 

Would have kept Gundy but that's about it.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

5 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Pipe dream. Id encourage everyone to brace themselves for a turbulent 2nd half of the season. 

The players are 1-2 losses away from completely checking out. Once finals become mathematically improbable, watch the freefall. Our soft underbelly will be exposed. 

Really wouldn't bother me, as long as there are new faces aplenty

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

26 minutes ago, 58er said:

 Name names please Such generality is not assisting your argument. 

i beg your pardon, are you just being obnoxious for the sake of it. You know very well who we have lost since ‘21. 
i am not responsible if you cannot follow simple logic..

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

4 minutes ago, dice said:

Grundy - best ruckman in the league
Jackson - best 2nd ruckman/forward
Jordon - one of the best taggers

And Bedford, Hunt and Harmes are all better than Billings, Hunter and McAdam
 

That was pretty much exactly what i was going to post 😎

[dice 697]

Unfortunately Taylor and Lamb lost the midas touch after the premiership

[demon3165 2,711]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That was pretty much exactly what i was going to post 😎

lmfao

[demon3165 2,711]

9 minutes ago, dice said:

Grundy - best ruckman in the league
Jackson - best 2nd ruckman/forward
Jordon - one of the best taggers

And Bedford, Hunt and Harmes are all better than Billings, Hunter and McAdam
 

Must have pretty low standards if you are calling jordon, Bedford, hunt and harmes A graders.

[dice 697]

6 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Must have pretty low standards if you are calling jordon, Bedford, hunt and harmes A graders.

I didn't. Was just saying that I thought those guys (Bedford, Hunt and Harmes) were better than the guys we traded in (Billings, Hunter and McAdam). imfao, whatever that moronic acronym means

[demon3165 2,711]

2 minutes ago, dice said:

I didn't. Was just saying that I thought those guys (Bedford, Hunt and Harmes) were better than the guys we traded in (Billings, Hunter and McAdam). imfao, whatever that moronic acronym means

Find it moronic that you don't know what it is but there you go.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

12 minutes ago, dice said:

I didn't. Was just saying that I thought those guys (Bedford, Hunt and Harmes) were better than the guys we traded in (Billings, Hunter and McAdam). imfao, whatever that moronic acronym means

Correct 👍 

[58er 6,398]

16 minutes ago, dice said:

Grundy - best ruckman in the league
Jackson - best 2nd ruckman/forward
Jordon - one of the best taggers

And Bedford, Hunt and Harmes are all better than Billings, Hunter and McAdam
 

Every one of those possibly you have chosen are not given away or not had reasonably successful or good AFL careers. 

They appear past  their best at the age we have recruited them. 

Grundy and Gawn are No 1 rucks Yes he is a good / very good ruck but not the great that Maxy is. 

Perhaps we should have been more patient but Maxy is only a No 1,ruck and Brody hasn’t the strings and bows to play second fiddle.

Jordon is being managed better and that issue is consistent with Bedford who is like Woe and Laurie both the same in/ out /sub category which is wearing on such players careers etc. 

Harmes was a tagger so that also affected Jordon. He lost confidence and also faith I think. Goody is nothing but consistent with his ideas which don’t help players at times.

Jacko is an unfortunate loss but like Craig Thompson to SA but all Clubs have to handle this in the AFL environment.

You are correct up to a point but I also think that the VFL players replacing them are also a season away from their breakout to AFL. Some may  still have to learn on the run if we don’t trade productively for next season. 

 

[titan_uranus 24,978]

3 hours ago, Sydee said:

I struggle with the CFC comparison the reality is that with no Trac, Lever, Brayshaw, Smith , unfit or hopelessly out of form Petty, Oliver, Viney, BBB, etc our list is nowhere near theirs atm 

Our once celebrated midfield now looks one of the comps worst , our forwards are inconsistent or just not threatening and our backline is very suspect if/when the ball hits the ground

Hard to see this team really threatening any time soon 

2 hours ago, RedFox said:

Except we are now without Petracca for most likely 6-8 weeks. They were full strength

Walsh missed large portions of last year and at no stage were Carlton at full strength.

Not the point though because the purpose of me raising the comparison was just to show that a side under extreme pressure and failing to respond repeatedly turned it around mid-season. So many different variables obviously, but I don’t want our players or coaches assuming the season is done when last year three sides refused to give up from worse W-L records than us right now and two of them made prelims. 

[58er 6,398]

37 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

i beg your pardon, are you just being obnoxious for the sake of it. You know very well who we have lost since ‘21. 
i am not responsible if you cannot follow simple logic..

It is one thing to lose players but reasons are important and tricky in today’s AFL. 

[gs77 4,053]

4 hours ago, praha said:

I fully expect us to bounce back, make finals, and then lose to Essendon in week 1.

I'd rather we win the wooden spoon than give them their first finals win in decades.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Of all the players who departed our club since 2021, the only one that’s left an irreplaceable hole, is Gus. 

The rest would make no difference to our fortunes right now. But the loss of Gus on field and off it, has had IMO an immeasurable negative impact on the team. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

50 minutes ago, 58er said:

It is one thing to lose players but reasons are important and tricky in today’s AFL. 

When players are traded or leave our list, one expects to improve the stock with incoming. 
over the last 3-4 years we haven’t done that

[demon3165 2,711]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

When players are traded or leave our list, one expects to improve the stock with incoming. 
over the last 3-4 years we haven’t done that

Can agree with that view.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

22 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Of all the players who departed our club since 2021, the only one that’s left an irreplaceable hole, is Gus. 

The rest would make no difference to our fortunes right now. But the loss of Gus on field and off it, has had IMO an immeasurable negative impact on the team. 

Off field wise who knows. The players couldn’t seem to care less on Monday. From a footy sense it was a loss but not a significant one IMO. 

[bing181 9,194]

16 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Of all the players who departed our club since 2021, the only one that’s left an irreplaceable hole, is Gus. 

The rest would make no difference to our fortunes right now. But the loss of Gus on field and off it, has had IMO an immeasurable negative impact on the team. 

This, this and this. Whole team balance looks out of whack without him, both on and off the field. If you're looking for reasons as to why a team might lose its way, start with loss of leadership and experience.

Having Melksham out for a year isn't helping either as he's in a similar category, same with Lever over a shorter period.

[beelzebub 23,313]

8 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Off field wise who knows. The players couldn’t seem to care less on Monday. From a footy sense it was a loss but not a significant one IMO. 

Got to agree with Jaded Gawndy.  Its only a vibe, an opinion but the likes of Gus'n'Gawny etc..   Brayshaw epitomised the soul of a die hard Demon. He left nothing out there...and so many do. He waa as much the jovial lad as the committed player.  Who will EVER forget the lunging mark in that Granny ? 

He inspired those around him. That resonance is missing now. 

[CHF 2,720]

From Goodwin's presser after the last game I take it that he is admitting that the adjustments that were made to our game plan during the off season have been to the detriment of the team performance. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the team look to be over coached and hesitant in their play. This may be because they are thinking too much about what they have to do rather than responding to the situation intuitively. 

Therefore, they do not look to be enjoying their work and positive results are not forthcoming. 

We now have a break and I hope to hell that the coaching staff are looking to reset the season. Injuries are what they are and we have to work around availability. Team game plans, structures and individual performance and form are all thangs that a coaching panel can have a positive effect on if they are doing their jobs properly. I am sure that they are working on these things. I hope they are successful.

Now comes the fun part. I get to harp on about what I think is best and what I would do. as with others on this site, I am working from the outside with limited/no real knowledge except what I have observed.

Starting with team selection I would look to play players in positions where they have performed best. Petty/Turner in defence, TMac in the forwards. Turner looks lost in the forward 50 and Petty has just not performed or contributed at all this season as a forward. TMac has looked good in defence but when moved forward, where we have serious deficiencies, kicked a couple of goals and looked to as if he knew what he was doing. 

The midfield that was our main strength in seasons past is much depleted with the retirement of Brayshaw, the injury to Petracca and the dip in form of Oliver. Viney's form is also not what it was. Viney and Oliver may be victims of the adjustments in game plan. Different roles and priorities at the stoppages? Prior to Petracca's injury we had robbed the midfield by playing him in the forward 50 to try and strengthen and area where we had problems. Another example of playing a player out of their strongest position.

The midfield to take the ground against North? Put the wood on Viney and Oliver to step up into driving leadership positions in there and work out ways to benefit from Gawn's dominance at the stoppages. Give Sparrow the opportunity to work more around the ball. I feel he is one that has more to offer in there if given the chance and the confidence. ANB to tag and rotate through there along with Pickett. Both used sparingly as required. With midfield injuries and form the way they are I would look to try a couple of others through there. I would also give Woewodin a run there.

I know I have argued to play players in their best performed positions but I would also look to experiment and be prepared to make the moves if the experiments are not working. 

If the defence is holding up during a match I would look at using Rivers, Salem and possibly McVee through the middle to see if that changes things up. Rivers and McVee are young players that we can develop and both, in my opinion, have attributes that could be worked with to to develop in the midfield. Of the players at Casey I think that over time Tholstrup may become a player but this may not be the time to step him up. might be a bit too much pressure to put on him at this stage. I would be tempted to give Sestan a run. He has been on the list a while and we need to see what he might bring I just don't see Laurie making it. In the games he has played I have just not seen anything to get excited about.

We have options and opportunities in the middle of the ground we need to make the best of them.

The forward cupboard is still look bare. JVR, a youngster developing his game in the top league. Fristch, as our mainstay scoring opportunity. Pickett needs to work closer to goal and at the feet of he talls where he is really effective. After those three there is SFW as effective forward/goal scorers go. We could try K. Brown, too young?. B. Brown, Knees, too slow? AMW, being played in defence at Casey?

We need to get a different look and feel about the team and, above all, we need an effective game plan that will get the players enjoying playing the game once agin.

 

 

 

[picket fence 17,066]

4 hours ago, Scipio said:

I think we'll bounce back a little and beat North and WC fairly comfortably, but the rest of the season is looking dire.

Gee Wiz bouncing back beating those two comfortably, wow.... Thats a telling bounce back that will mean ZILCH... Not even sure we can beat those 2 teams either. IF WE DONT CLUB MUST SURELY SACK GOODWIN!

Edited June 12 by picket fence

[BoBo 2,941]

37 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Of all the players who departed our club since 2021, the only one that’s left an irreplaceable hole, is Gus. 

The rest would make no difference to our fortunes right now. But the loss of Gus on field and off it, has had IMO an immeasurable negative impact on the team. 

Yep. I truly believe that we wouldn’t have won the 21 grand final without Gus’ heroics. He turned the game on his own. Will forever be in my heart. 
 

The most jarring part of the Pies Loss for me was how chummy we were with Maynard. 
 

I’m not a one eyed supporter, I call things as they are even when it goes against us. 

But, it’s discouraging and deflating to have the team show us that it’s just no big deal? 
 

For contrast:

Langdon says words. ‘No duck no dinner’.

They flatten him and drive his face into the dirt.

Maynard (no matter what anyone thinks) finishes Gus’ career. 
 

And what’s our response? 
 

We let him bully the [censored] out of us, shake his hand, pat him in the bum and have a good laugh afterwards.

Does anyone reckon 90’s North, 90’s Adelaide, 2000’s Essendon, 2000’s Brisbane, 2000/2010’s Geelong, Collingwood EVER, Luke hodge Hawthorn, 2010’s Richmond would allow that let alone:

The huge impact it had on its supporters? 
 

Zero chance. 
 

Along with a litany of other issues… there is a MASSIVE disconnect between this team and fans. For those that argue that we just wanted to concentrate on winning, fine, then recognise when we got [censored] on the field that the last thing we want to see, after Tracc went down, again by a pies player, was to see Oliver and May being super friendly with that [censored].
 

The fans are the MFC. This club is nothing without us. And I can’t recall a bigger spit in the face than this game. 
 

I’ve never been this angry and disheartened. 

[Jaded No More 68,867]

48 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Off field wise who knows. The players couldn’t seem to care less on Monday. From a footy sense it was a loss but not a significant one IMO. 

You’ve clearly never heard a Melbourne player speak about Gus.

There is a reason we wanted him to be involved at the club and especially on game day on the bench. It wasn’t some sympathy job offer. The club knows full well how vitally important his leadership was. 
 

Forget the fact that he was incredibly versatile and excelled in just about any role you gave him, forget that he’d help our midfield woes, forget that he often stood up in big moments. Good players come and go, but great leaders are hard to find and harder still to replace.

 

[binman 42,689]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Walsh missed large portions of last year and at no stage were Carlton at full strength.

Not the point though because the purpose of me raising the comparison was just to show that a side under extreme pressure and failing to respond repeatedly turned it around mid-season. So many different variables obviously, but I don’t want our players or coaches assuming the season is done when last year three sides refused to give up from worse W-L records than us right now and two of them made prelims. 

Of course our season is not done. 

If people want to run around hysterically with their hair on fire, calling for rebuilds and saying the season is a write off that's their pergorative.

But i for one remain bullish. And I don't give a toss that most posters might find that ridiculous.

We are 4 points from fourth for pete's sake. We will likely win 2 of our next 3 and be back in the 8.

The doomsayers on here may be proven correct. Or they may not.

And if they are not I'm going to enjoy whatever success comes our way safe in the knowledge that i stuck fat and didn't get sucked into a doom spiral some on here seem to revel in.