Why we are where we are

[Rampaging Demons 1]

But to have this running game, you have to have people willing to run from behind and we do not have this.....

I too thought that this was to be our season - all indications from the prior year were that we had taken steps forward and with another year into our young kids, Robbo to be fit and firing, well....

I am sick of the stop start play - it is not tempo footy we play.... we just do not have any options!!!

How many times do we go back behind our mark, wait, wait, look, look and then kick to a contest.. yet our opponents seem to have no problems spotting up targets, switching play and hitting their team mates lace up!!

[Slartibartfast 15,873]

I'm amazed by the lack of rational recognition of our situation. I know I'm out of step in not slamming the club and finding fault but I'm not convinced by many, if any, of the arguments presented here.

The simple fact is we have no idea what this club could have produced this season because we have not had anywhere near our best team on the field in any game. And on this basis people want to make definitive statements as to what’s wrong. IMO it's just rubbish and that applies to posters I really respect and enjoy reading.

But I'll make a couple of points.

1. Yes Jaded, the club did think they were a chance if things went right. We probably didn't think we were the best team, but we thought if the planets lined up we were in with a chance. If the FD had been told before the season what would happen with injuries they probably would have thought we'd be lucky to make the eight.

2. This concept that "Daniher should work out his own game plan and people should copy us rather than copy others" is bizarre. I'll just make the observation that with our current available players it wouldn't matter what game plan we had we'd struggle to win because we are not good enough. We don't have the cattle on the park. Where is Matthews, Sheedys, Malthouse and Eades new miracle game plan this year? Eade has failed. His game plan was smashed by WC last year in the finals and was smashed by us last year when we played them in the second half of the year. BTW, for what it's worth, Thompson last night said Geelong had developed "run and carry" over the summer. So there is another failure in "original thinking".

Game plans don't just appear, they evolve with the game.

3. For all I think KD's original point is a very good one can someone tell me how you can relate our lack of performance to this single fact? Do people really believe we're no good because of 15 kgs between 10 players? How do you know what McLean's weight loss means, he may have been significantly better than last year? IMO you can't make the connection because so many other major things have happened you can't isolate just one.

4. As for having a go a BB, what rot. Neita, Bartram, Robbo and McLean have had impact injuries. Nothing to do with BB. It's a bit of a miracle Moloney is even playing given he could hardly walk last year. Whelan had concussion and then an ankle, Wheatley a shoulder, Jones an ankle, Johnstone a wrist, Frawley stress fractures in his foot and Ferguson a thumb.

Rivers has had hammy problems all season, but my understanding is it's back related. Green had a two week hammy and Whelan a soft tissue injury for a week or so.

5. This game is played above the shoulders as much as below them. We lack confidence. That leads to tension and uncertainty. As a result skill errors are made, decision making is slow and unsure and performance is significantly reduced.

I'm hurting as much as anyone. But there is no magic bullet, there is no villain, nobody has failed to try, nobody has been negligent and there is no single factor that has caused or can fix our situation. So stop trying to shoot Daniher and blame him for everything. To do so is just wrong.

I look forward to seeing our best team on the field this year with a bit of confidence. Until then I'll reserve judgement.

[Jarka 767]

Fan, I understand what you're trying to say but we aren't the only club to have been hit hard by injuries this year.

[45HG 1,539]

fan, i agree a lot with what you say, and have said as much on this site, though not so articulately.

however the only thing that has frustrated me about this year with danners and/or the leadership group is our persistence on a gameplan that does not suit out team, especially with injuries involved.

the games where we were affected by injuries last year, we managed to stick with out gameplan that the players could understand and execute because it was suited to the players' styles. i agree entirely that our side shouldn't really be judged too harshly to date, save for round one and part of round 2 when the only real excuse was a poor gameplan and/or delivery of it.

however imo, injuries brings with it a necessity to get back to basic footy that the players seem to enjoy anyway. this being a game based around quick movement and long ball movement. with neitz and robertson out, and many of our more skillful midfielders, we knew we would not be able to implement the gameplan based around perfect footskills that otherwise would've worked, and instead the players should have been instructed to kick long and get the ball moving. if the ball is moved quickly, you don't need superstar forwards to do the job, as the task becomes easier with less numbers crowding the forward line.

persisting with the chip and chop game we've seen at the g so far this year, has only resulted in a depleted forward line being further exposed because they have been forced to fight outside their weight, and our defenders have been forced to play the wrong gameplan without many of its best players, and even guys like bell, who have god disposal, have come under criticism for poor ball use, simply because of the mount of times theyve been brought into the play. if they had the freedom to run forward, and still had players up the ground to kick to (which we had v port and dogs with bater and sylvia), they would not be forced into looking silly with short kicks in the backline.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I amazed by the lack of rational recognition of our situation. ......

Very good post Fan. Most of the content will be missed my most. From the posts in response so far it seems so.

Unfortunately the misinformed witch burning will continue.

[Jarka 767]

LOL, some people are so predictable, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Thankyou for not dissappointing me

[Jaded No More 58,490]

2. This concept that "Daniher should work out his own game plan and people should copy us rather than copy others" is bizarre. I'll just make the observation that with our current available players it wouldn't matter what game plan we had we'd struggle to win because we are not good enough. We don't have the cattle on the park. Where is Matthews, Sheedys, Malthouse and Eades new miracle game plan this year? Eade has failed. His game plan was smashed by WC last year in the finals and was smashed by us last year when we played them in the second half of the year. BTW, for what it's worth, Thompson last night said Geelong had developed "run and carry" over the summer. So there is another failure in "original thinking".

Game plans don't just appear, they evolve with the game.

And Geelong haven't won a flag since 1963, and I bet you they won't win one this year either.

As for Eade, he has got the Bulldogs' list much further than many other coaches could. They have a good, midget list, which he worked around by implementing a quick game plan. If the Doggies took as much time as we do, to deliver their ball to their key forwards, they would never kick more than 10 goals a game.

Nobody is saying that Daniher is completely at fault, and of course injuries have ruined our season. But you cannot be so naive to think that if we had everyone available that we would have beaten Sydney, or Geelong or St.Kilda (when we had a full list!) and especially West Coast. We got smashed in those games fair and square, and not McLean nor Rivers could have made any difference.

You can't take much out of pre-season form, but it was clear to everyone that we were over-possessing the footy. We were learning, and if ever there is a time to stuff-up, practice games are it. But how could a 10 year coach, let his side walk out onto their home ground in Round 1, and over-possess and over-handball the footy?

I understand perfectly why we needed to implement a faster game plan when we played interstate, but why at the MCG?

And confidence may have a lot to do with our poor skills in Round 8, but what was the excuse in Round 1 and Round 2? And why can we come out fighting like mad in Rounds 6 & 7, but collapse from the first bounce in Round 8? Yes, we were playing the premiers, but gees, we gave nothing. We played 10 minutes out of 120, and that was after Daniher specifically said that we needed to be switched on for the entire 4 quarters to win. So either his message is no longer getting through, or our players need to have their hearing checked.

I admire your support of Daniher, but you have far too much footy knowledge to not realise that our faults and our cracks are much deeper than our injury list.

We needed everything to go right for us to have a real go this year, and that hasn't happen. However, I still think that without all those injuries, our new game-plan would still be flawed, and our skills still lacking.

[mauriesy 6,819]

Game plans don't just appear, they evolve with the game.

... So stop trying to shoot Daniher and blame him for everything. To do so is just wrong.

I look forward to seeing our best team on the field this year with a bit of confidence. Until then I'll reserve judgement.

As will I.

Meanwhile, here's some enlightened suggestions taken from this board about what our game plan ought to be ...

"Game plan: keep the ball moving at all costs, with the aim of getting the ball to our forwards as quickly as possible"

Ssshhh ... whatever you do, don't call it "run and carry"!

"Carrol, Rivers and Frawley backed in to take the KP forwards, half back flankers (Pettard, Whelan, Bell) expected to create lots of run from the backline"

Memo: Send Coaching for Dummies to the Football Department with note to read Chapter 1: Backline play.

"Davey would have a licence to run on the ball and drop forward when it suits him"

Like some sort of untouchable "free agent"? That'll fool 'em.

"Sylvia to play deep"

[sarcasm] Haven't seen that tried yet. [/sarcasm]

"Bate to push up and play like a second CHF that leads from 40m out"

[sarcasm] Nor that. [/sarcasm]

"Rivers to float in the backline"

Hmmm ... a cunning, new and unusual plan!

"Play the percentages in defence. But take risks when going forward. Plenty of run through the middle"

Ssshhh ... I told you, don't mention "run and carry"!

"My number 1 priority would be to play Sylvia one-out in the goal square for the whole game, he would kick 10. It's a shame Daniher can't spot talent and doesn't understand how to use a player's strengths"

Memo to Football Department: interesting suggestion, could be worth a punt, just in case the idea slipped through.

"Would instruct the players to try going through the corridor as much as possible and get it in quick and direct to Neitz and Robbo"

See 2005 Coaches Report: Failed Strategies

"The small forwards should get ready for the crumbs"

Memo: Send Coaching for Dummies to the Football Department with note to read Chapter 2: Forward play.

[45HG 1,539]

how insightful, and full of brilliant suggestions, enlightened approach

[deanox 8,692]

Fan, I understand what you're trying to say but we aren't the only club to have been hit hard by injuries this year.

i think there are two stats we have to look at here. the first is the 'games lost due to injury' stats, which puts us right up there with adelaide and i think st kilda. then you can probably take that further and have 'games missed from best players due to injury' and again melbourne and adelaide are up there. but where we differ from adelaide (in fact we are at the bottom and they are at the top) is players who have played every game.

we have had 8.

adelaide have had in the high teens i believe, maybe 18.

we have had injuries in games that have limited our run ad disrupted our plans. our players havnt been playing with the same group of 22 each week so they are formulating no team work. mclean and jones arent building a great partnership. the relationship between the rucks and the midfielders isnt being developed (the instinctive tap to position). the mids arent learning where to kick for the forwards, and vice versa the forwards arent entirely sure where to lead. the backs havnt had a chance to settle. ususally rivers is helping everyone out. usually wheelan has the best small back. these rolls are being performed by other players, the synergy that exists between co-defenders isnt evident, and hasnt been allowed to form because the team has been unsettled.

we havnt played good footy. no one is arguing we have. but to say that injuries havnt been one of the major contributing factors is ignorant at best.

[Slartibartfast 15,873]

Jaded,

And Geelong haven't won a flag since 1963, and I bet you they won't win one this year either.

So?

As for Eade, he has got the Bulldogs' list much further than many other coaches could.

How do you know?

But you cannot be so naive to think that if we had everyone available that we would have beaten Sydney, or Geelong or St.Kilda (when we had a full list!) and especially West Coast.

Has anyone beaten WC this year at Subi? And how many will? I do think with a full list we are the equal of those other teams. We beat them all last year. But you miss the point.

So either his message is no longer getting through, or our players need to have their hearing checked.

Just as it wasn't in 1998 when we got beaten by Saints and Geelong by a total of 180 points and then came out and beat WC in the next game.

I admire your support of Daniher, but you have far too much footy knowledge to not realise that our faults and our cracks are much deeper than our injury list.

You don't understand. I didn't support Daniher in my reply, I said he was not the sole cause of our problems and that given our injuries we don't have the information to judge. I am on record before the season started as saying our list was good enough to finish about 7th. I think that demonstrates that we have our faults. And for the record I support Daniher, but that is not this discussion.

We needed everything to go right for us to have a real go this year, and that hasn't happen. However, I still think that without all those injuries, our new game-plan would still be flawed, and our skills still lacking.

I don't think you can fairly judge. But that is up to you.

Lets not get into [censored] for tat, but you can have the last say. I just don't think, judging by your response, I'm getting the message across.

Can you see a parallel?

[Whispering_Jack 28,013]

I think the points you make might well be valid. But I'd want to see some figures about player weights and aerobic capacity (which we probably won't get) rather than just judging from an "impression" about how they "look".

There's one player who hasn't played a single game of AFL yet who, according to the official statistics, is down 3kg on 2006. I remember seeing him at Sandringham last year and thinking that if he put on 5kg over the summer, he'd be ready to play footy with the big boys. I'm not an expert on these matters by any means but I wonder if Michael Newton would be closer to AFL selection by now had he grown to 88kg instead of going back to 80kg. Is there someone who actually knows something about these things who could answer this question?

[Jaded No More 58,490]

Lets not get into [censored] for tat, but you can have the last say. I just don't think, judging by your response, I'm getting the message across.

I don't think that anyone with any sort of footy knowledge sees Daniher as the sole cause of our problems. Of course he isn't, and he is certainly not to blame for the horrendous injury run of 2007 which has no doubt affected our season to date.

If you thought we'd finish about 7th, but the club thought we could challenge for a flag, than obviously they see the list differently to you. Did the club over-rate the list?

And furthermore, do you think the club has tried to overcome the faults which you admit we have, by implementing yet another new game plan to be carried out on a ground that we have never had trouble winning on before?

The reason I ask, is because I am genuinely interested to see where you stand. We don't hear from you nearly enough these days.

Injuries aside, what else has gone wrong this season, and who is at fault (if anyone)?

[grazman 6,542]

There's one player who hasn't played a single game of AFL yet who, according to the official statistics, is down 3kg on 2006. I remember seeing him at Sandringham last year and thinking that if he put on 5kg over the summer, he'd be ready to play footy with the big boys. I'm not an expert on these matters by any means but I wonder if Michael Newton would be closer to AFL selection by now had he grown to 88kg instead of going back to 80kg. Is there someone who actually knows something about these things who could answer this question?

Jack I don't have the answers for you , but according to the preseason guide Newton is 87 kgs and 193cm Which for me is still too light to play a KPP. By way of comparison James Gwilt for the Saints who has had a very good season so far and is fairly pacey, is 93kgs and 188cm tall. I'm not saying that the Saints have got their preparation right, nor am I infering that we have necessarily got it wrong, but if Newton is only 87 kgs I think that's too light. If he is only 80 they must be trying to turn him into a wingman.

[Slartibartfast 15,873]

If you thought we'd finish about 7th, but the club thought we could challenge for a flag, then obviously they see the list differently to you. Did the club over-rate the list?

Who knows? That's my point.

And furthermore, do you think the club has tried to overcome the faults which you admit we have, by implementing yet another new game plan to be carried out on a ground that we have never had trouble winning on before?

We were terrible preseason with the "run and carry" stuff. And it was terrible against St.Kilda. But I don't think we have really done it since.

We've lost at the MCG because we've had a depleted list playing without confidence.

Injuries aside, what else has gone wrong this season, and who is at fault (if anyone)?

Football is not a game of right and wrong, or "fault". It is a game of margins where you take risks to try and get an advantage. With a footy department of about 12 against the might of Collingwood, Sydney and WC who have about double that number our task is very difficult. My view is the injuries have been so profound and have effected the players confidence so deeply that it is hard to judge anything else. But it is clear we are not robust. I'm not trained in that area so I can't offer more. But it's the first area I'd try and fix.

[Jaded No More 58,490]

While we're on the topic of who is to blame, I thought this article was pretty relevant.

Mark Robinson makes some good points, both about the players and the coach.

Sadly, he is spot on when he writes that "over recent years they have been brilliant and collectively hardened for one week, at times for one month, maybe two. But as quick as we are to praise them, they let us and themselves down for being flaky, individual pushovers."

You can read the rest of the article here

[beelzebub 22,244]

While we're on the topic of who is to blame, I thought this article was pretty relevant.

You can read the rest of the article here

one word summed it up ...... CONTEMPT

[45HG 1,539]

sounds like a certain journo went to the tab pre-season, and is now spewing he lost a bit of dosh!

but yeah, it's true, we all know it, they all know it, they all write about it a million times a year. at least he chucked in the bit at the end bout danners

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

While we're on the topic of who is to blame, I thought this article was pretty relevant.

Mark Robinson makes some good points, both about the players and the coach.

Sadly, he is spot on when he writes that "over recent years they have been brilliant and collectively hardened for one week, at times for one month, maybe two. But as quick as we are to praise them, they let us and themselves down for being flaky, individual pushovers."

You can read the rest of the article here

Thanks Jaded its a good honest article.

[Slartibartfast 15,873]

Yes, an honest article.

My only point of issue, or elaboration, is that the players don't go out and "not try". They don't get together and say "augh, lets not try today".

I must buy a book on collective sports psychology and try and learn. Has anyone got any recommendations?

[Weedster 174]

we have no MFC game plan, we play players who cant kick the ball more than 20 meters and hit a target and this year our 1%ers have been severly lacking

bruce and green losing weight is baffling, not like they had any on them in the first place, especially bruce

and we have no physical presence whatever...

[beelzebub 22,244]

Something i think that must come into play is the psyche of the players. Yes they probably go out to win, to try but having all but forgotten the taste of victory you can be forgiven for going out without real conviction that you might really win.

when youre on the high of consecutive wins...things just happen so much easier.. you dont feel like youre draggig that monkey around all the time. when youre hot...you 'expect' things to happen as a result of effort....when youre not... that element of lingering doubt has a habit of following you around all day. You can almost tatse the 'doubt' about the club...harsh but real.

[45HG 1,539]

same goes for supporters too, ey?

i'm guilty of ticking off a couple of wins last year, not that they weren't celebrated in true hearty fashion, but they weren't truly appreciated. takes a year like this...

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Something i think that must come into play is the psyche of the players. Yes they probably go out to win, to try but having all but forgotten the taste of victory you can be forgiven for going out without real conviction that you might really win.

when youre on the high of consecutive wins...things just happen so much easier.. you dont feel like youre draggig that monkey around all the time. when youre hot...you 'expect' things to happen as a result of effort....when youre not... that element of lingering doubt has a habit of following you around all day. You can almost tatse the 'doubt' about the club...harsh but real.

A friend of mine who knows very little about football, noted that when being interviewed before the West Coast game, Neale Daniher just looked so defeated and so down.

It's hard to imagine that he instills much confidence in the playing group isn't it.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

As will I.

Meanwhile, here's some enlightened suggestions taken from this board about what our game plan ought to be ...

What do you think the game plan ought to be?