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POSTGAME: Practice Match vs Carlton


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20 hours ago, bluey said:

I wonder what the blue between Max and Goodwin was about.

Didn't look good.

 Bloody hell - "obvious major rift in the troubled Demons' camp" will be the next headline.  They were having a discussion FFS.

13 hours ago, forever demons said:

Nibbles is the heart beat of the team.My first picked player every week

Certainly one of the most underrated players running around.  Bloody hard worker, determined, courageous, and yes, not the best disposer but not the worst either.

2 hours ago, stinga said:

Windsor's 2 goals.    Last time I remember having a wingman who kicked goals was Robbie Flower at 1.1 per game.   No way making a comparison, but it was great to see.

Langers kicked quite a few especially in 2021, and later  prior to the Thomas assault. 

1 hour ago, kev martin said:

I thought Cripps scuffed a few

Cripps also threw quite a few - and though he was badly done by when he was penalised for one of them.  Chatted back in a manner that cost us the preseason v them a couple of years back, with ?8 x 50 meter penalties.

He is such a smug bastard IMO.

Edited by monoccular
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1 hour ago, binman said:

Absolutely.

And it creates a problem for the opponents, which we saw last night.

For better or worse, analytics is a big part of the game now.

For example the risk reward equation taking on a high risk kick into the corridor (or last year for us trying to pick out a plsyer inside 50 as opposed to bombing long).

The risk reward equation is different for each  player. For example the blues are desperate to get the ball into saads hand down back. He had the green light to go for the kick to the corridor.

But what if they can't get it to Saad? Instead it ends up in the hands of a less skilled player. Do they take the kick to the corridor on? What's the team rule?

You could see that hesitation and confusion play out last night. And they didn't really take the corridor on because the risk reward was skewed the wrong way, as evidenced by the 2 or 3 times we intercepted in the middle and scored (I doubt it was more often than that).

So, the blues were slowed down and often forces to kicked to an outnumber.

Bowey... lock down on Saad Yeah like the sound of that! and kick a few Jakey boy!!!😎

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13 hours ago, picket fence said:

I'd play Verall straight away!

And you may well be right Mr Fence.  No doubt showing some good signs.

I just feel he's still a little ways off the pace.  It was only a brief cameo though.  Looking forward to seeing more of him as the season progresses.

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3 hours ago, picket fence said:

BILLINGS IS QUALITY!

He also has more potential upside with set shots as it would appear his range from a fair way out is a little longer vs say Spargo, Chin and Koz at similar distances.

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4 hours ago, loges said:

Anyone notice Max got a fair go from the umpires last night, think the changes re blocking will help him somewhat.

Yes... he was unfairly targeted with this stupid rule prior to this season imho.

I almost felt like they were under instruction to ping Max as much as possible to try and curb the huge advantage he had over many opponents.

His dominance at CBs last night was off the charts.

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3 hours ago, stinga said:

Windsor's 2 goals.    Last time I remember having a wingman who kicked goals was Robbie Flower at 1.1 per game.   No way making a comparison, but it was great to see.

Robbie was mercurial.  A very nice start in the praccy though.

Reminds me a little of a young Isaac Smith.

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6 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Dangerfield would be pretty much identical to Trac in his kicking skills.

That's why I have Dusty ahead of both. His kicking skills are sublime.

Career averages eerily close!

Screenshot_20240229_222331_SamsungInternet.jpg.6bfcff2e5376b05e8de5774eac514f26.jpg

Screenshot_20240229_222442_SamsungInternet.jpg.5399ae3a3fc7861ecd22e1019c2e2035.jpg

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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11 hours ago, binman said:

Yep.

From our best 22 we were missing Clarry, Petty, Hunter and Melk (and potentially spargs and McAdam?). And of course no BB or Tmac.

They had Weitering and Walsh out. I'm not sure if they had other best 22 players out, none were mentioned in the call.

Hard to argue they were more undermanned than us i would have thought (Walsh is gun, calrry is better. Weiterng perhaps has Petts covered, both in terms of ability and importance to the team. But no Mcadam or Melk meant we didn't have a medium size defensive forward we like to run with) 

Weitering Marchbank Walsh Martin Kennedy Williams according to the caller on Lyon's SEN wrap-up

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9 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

I know everyone has Petty pencilled in as a forward after his 6 good quarters last year (admittedly so did I) but if our delivery into 50 is improved and Schache/Fullerton can put up 10 touch, 4 mark, 2 goals stat lines.  Petty down back is an amazing thought.  Carlton don't kick 40 points last night. 

Not a knock on Tomlinson, he played on the best 2nd tall in the comp so it can only get 'easier'. 

Petty plays forward

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Weitering Marchbank Walsh Martin Kennedy Williams according to the caller on Lyon's SEN wrap-up

That's a fair few best 22 to be fair.

They need Williams up and about I reckon. 

They lack a bit of class.

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8 hours ago, binman said:

I'm in the same boat. I think.

The reason I say that is I feel like I have developed a bit of a set against him. Perhaps because I was surprised they picked him ahead of spargs late last year.

So, I wonder if I sub consciousness underrate him.

For instance I was really surprised he had 17 possessions against the tigers.

Less surprised that he got 17 yesterday, but he seems to have the knack good players do of accumulating disposals unobtrusively.

And crucially, he doesn't waste them. A neat kick who reliably hits targets and makes good decisions.

I think he is competing with spargo, who is also a good kick but probably doesn't get enough of the pill.

The other thing about Laurie that makes me think I maybe underrate him is the coaches, and goody  obviously think highly of him. And of course have all the gps amd orher data we don't have access to.

On the gps data, Laurie looks really fit and had slimmed down.

We saw last night how effective our all team defensive grid is.

The blues looked stuck st times- even when they were desperately trying to get speed on the ball.

That defensive grid (which by the by seemed to be set up to invite the corridor kick) requires many players getting to the right spot and heaps of unrewarded running - particularly from the utility types like Laurie, nibbla, langdon, Sparrow etc.

Such players need a good tank  ability to cover the ground at speed and discipline. All hard attributes to "see".

I'm guessing Laurie has developed them.

In my opinion i think what you need to watch with Laurie is this. He is a quite valuable link player with good inside disposal and the smarts.

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Just finished the replay and he's been spoken of much already but Laurie really impressed me.

At the beginning of last year I thought he was a spud but last night his inside work distributing the ball was outstanding. He makes great decisions with and without ball in hand and goes when he has to and a great side step, reminds me a touch of Sam Mitchell. Here's hoping he can develop as good non dominant side disposal as he did

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5 hours ago, stinga said:

Windsor's 2 goals.    Last time I remember having a wingman who kicked goals was Robbie Flower at 1.1 per game.   No way making a comparison, but it was great to see.

Steven Stretch loved a goal.

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I’m glad to have gotten that praccy out of the way. Fired up my WatchAFL to check out the game only to find out there was a problem with my account. Shook out the cobwebs, contacted the support staff, got my account fixed, I am now ready to rock for opening round with no glitches (hopefully!).

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8 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

He also has more potential upside with set shots as it would appear his range from a fair way out is a little longer vs say Spargo, Chin and Koz at similar distances.

Chin on shakey ground and would want to produce more IMV

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I hope Tracc hasn’t become the new demonland whipping boy for disposal.  The comparisons with Nibbler are like comparing apples and oranges.

Tracc can shank kicks but the facts are in the last 4 years, as far as number of score involvements go he has ranked #3, #1, #1, #1 in the afl. I’m quite happy that when he gets the ball, a score results more often than any other player in the afl.  Nibble ranked #167 in the league for score assists in his best year (2021).

That is why Tracc doesn’t get flak. Because most supporters understand that when he gets the ball good stuff often happens and everyone sees and notices it.  My view is the Nibbler criticism is also unfair, but for different reasons.

The stat I’d really like to see is some sort of net score involvement.  Score involvements minus turnovers that result in opposition scores.  That would allow a better assessment of players in similar roles.  

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50 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

I hope Tracc hasn’t become the new demonland whipping boy for disposal.  The comparisons with Nibbler are like comparing apples and oranges.

Tracc can shank kicks but the facts are in the last 4 years, as far as number of score involvements go he has ranked #3, #1, #1, #1 in the afl. I’m quite happy that when he gets the ball, a score results more often than any other player in the afl.  Nibble ranked #167 in the league for score assists in his best year (2021).

That is why Tracc doesn’t get flak. Because most supporters understand that when he gets the ball good stuff often happens and everyone sees and notices it.  My view is the Nibbler criticism is also unfair, but for different reasons.

The stat I’d really like to see is some sort of net score involvement.  Score involvements minus turnovers that result in opposition scores.  That would allow a better assessment of players in similar roles.  

I think tracc is safe from becoming a whipping boy.

Of course he is a star. One of the best six players I have seen play at the dees.

His score involvements is terrific evidence of how good he is, and how important he is.

But that isn't particularly relevant to kicking skills (all players in a scoring chain are credited with an SI).

And doesn't change the fact he is a terrible kick.

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4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Chin on shakey ground and would want to produce more IMV

Chin was ok in the practice match for me.

When he came in last  year, he looked like a gun. 

It's been a while though since we've seen that form.

He will be struggling to get a game this year of he doesn't lift. Some great new talent competing for his spot.

 

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4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Chin on shakey ground and would want to produce more IMV

I’d be tempted to drop him simply to confirm Jason Dunnystool has absolutely NFI what he is talking about 

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12 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

And you may well be right Mr Fence.  No doubt showing some good signs.

I just feel he's still a little ways off the pace.  It was only a brief cameo though.  Looking forward to seeing more of him as the season progresses.

Those few, early-season appearances might well be the difference for him as he has worked hard to elevate his presence off-season. 

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On 29/02/2024 at 09:51, Altona-demon said:

2. Inside50 marks - aside from the obvious darting low kicks which were commented on ad nauseam by King et co, there was a clear ability (and willingness) to find the shallow inside 50 marks - which worked well against Carlton who were very set up for Melbourne offence from 2021, 22, 23 (ie deep and to the pockets).  Given the ability of our small HFs to kick over 40m quite easily (sans Spargo) this could be quite an effective tactic.  

I think this is the most promising sign out of the game. In wins last year we averaged 14.9 marks i50, in losses 9.1 so to get 20 is solid - obviously no Weitering helps there.

20 marks allowed us to get a goal from 23% of i50s (25% in wins last year, 17% in losses), and convert at 58% (goal from scoring shots, 58% in 2023 wins, 45% in losses). If we can play that way this year we will be in a strong ladder position at the end. 

We also held them to 8 marks i50 which is strong given they’ve got Curnow, McKay, TdK but I’m less worried about defence in general, hasn’t been our issue last 2 years, hitting the scoreboard has. 

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56 minutes ago, binman said:

And doesn't change the fact he is a terrible kick.

My issue is that he’s not, or at least not all the time. When he gets it right he can literally put it on a 20c piece but he gets the ball drop wrong too many times in front of goal and shanks too many for a player of his quality. 

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