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Forward Line & Backup Ruck Issues Going into 2024 and beyond ...

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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I don’t know where we go if Gawn goes down. Verrall and Farris-White are projects while Fullerton could be out for half the season (if tendon) and even if he didn’t get injured yesterday, would you be feeling bullish going into a game with him as the No 1 ruck?

I understand the reasons why we traded him, he’s too good to be an insurance policy, but at the end of the day we’ve just facilitated a top 4 rival with a first class ruckman.

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    39 minutes ago, Edward Langdon said:

    I don’t know where we go if Gawn goes down. Verrall and Farris-White are projects while Fullerton could be out for half the season (if tendon) and even if he didn’t get injured yesterday, would you be feeling bullish going into a game with him as the No 1 ruck?

    I understand the reasons why we traded him, he’s too good to be an insurance policy, but at the end of the day we’ve just facilitated a top 4 rival with a first class ruckman.

    Yes and our game plan relies on gawn

    We have learned nothing in two years so sad

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    There goes my punt on Tommy being 2024's Judd McVee...

    (That's all the catastrophising I got, this early on a Sunday morning!)

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    Was Mcqualter the brains behind Grigg as ruck?

    Gawn out Spargo in?

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    Back up ruck is an issue. 

    So too are our fwd tall stocks with big questions hanging over Schache, Bbb and Tmac.

    After losing four home finals on the trot, I don't get why the club wasn't more bullish about fixing this.

    Edited by leave it to deever

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    5 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

    Back up ruck is an issue. 

    So our our fwd tall stocks with big questions hanging over Schache, Bb and Tmac.

    After losing four home finals on the trot, I don't get why the club wasn't more bullish about fixing this.

    Last year we drafted Jefferson. This year we traded for Fullarton. There are only a finite number of list spots. We still have Petty, JVR, and we do still have TMac and BBB. I don't know how more bullish we can be. 
     

    As for rucks, no one can replace Gawn. It would have been nice to keep Grundy but clearly it wasn't working out for him sitting at Casey, and both he and Gawn function best when rucking virtually all day. We have two project players learning the trade. Unfortunately, Fullarton, who was clearly brought in for precisely this purpose,  is now injured:  one of those things that happens but which has had ramifications.

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    And it's not just us, by the way. How would Brisbane go if Joe Daniher went down? That would leave them with just Hipwood as a KPF. Collingwood have already lost McStay and would be in trouble if Mihocek gets injured. Etc etc etc

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    List spots are finite ? The club decides on the number 

    There are two list spots that could have been available but the players concerned were on contracts a year longer tahn necessary in my opinion

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    31 minutes ago, Kent said:

    List spots are finite ? The club decides on the number 

    There are two list spots that could have been available but the players concerned were on contracts a year longer tahn necessary in my opinion

    I’m assuming you mean BB & TMac. If so (& I’m sure this has been said ad nauseum) they are premiership players & deserve to see out their contacts & more importantly for the club to honour them. I still think the JMac decision all those years ago broke our club at the time …

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    1 hour ago, Ollie fan said:

    And it's not just us, by the way. How would Brisbane go if Joe Daniher went down? That would leave them with just Hipwood as a KPF. Collingwood have already lost McStay and would be in trouble if Mihocek gets injured. Etc etc etc

    No room for logic in here. MFCSS rules OK?

    You are totally right. It's why the team with least best 22 injuries usually wins the flag.

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    1 hour ago, Deestar9 said:

    I’m assuming you mean BB & TMac. If so (& I’m sure this has been said ad nauseum) they are premiership players & deserve to see out their contacts & more importantly for the club to honour them. I still think the JMac decision all those years ago broke our club at the time …

    All of which is true, plus they probably also had a role to play in playing at Casey and teaching the young forwards/rucks there, as well as being ready to play in the firsts if necessary - which strikes me as forward/strategic thinking.

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    1 hour ago, Kent said:

    List spots are finite ? The club decides on the number 

    There are two list spots that could have been available but the players concerned were on contracts a year longer tahn necessary in my opinion

    Was this your opinion at the time the contracts were signed, or is it just your opinion now? We all love the benefit of hindsight!

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    15 hours ago, Kent said:

    Yes and our game plan relies on gawn

    We have learned nothing in two years so sad

    I think you probably have the halfest empty glass on demonland... 

    ...but it could be a stiff competition.

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    Tomlinson has played back up ruck for us previously, from all reports he has had a great preseason. 
    Schache has also had experience as a back up ruck at the dogs. 
    Obviously not the preferred options but opportunities have presented for players to step up and grab their chance. 

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    Just now, Vineytime said:

    Tomlinson has played back up ruck for us previously, from all reports he has had a great preseason. 
    Schache has also had experience as a back up ruck at the dogs. 
    Obviously not the preferred options but opportunities have presented for players to step up and grab their chance. 

    Tomo has never played back up ruck for us.

    When he was recruited to the club, he was trialled as a wingman to little success and then transitioned into defence where he has remained since.

    I was hoping last year that they would have swung Tomlinson forward in the finals series instead of a cooked McDonald. Some don't realise but Tomlinson was a gun CHF at junior level due to his high work rate and endurance level. Even when he started at AFL level he showed some good signs as a high CHF who could run both ways and blow up his defenders.

    Tomlinson was fit at the time and felt that maybe that could have added some unpredictability going forward instead of McDonald who was absolutely useless. 

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    As for our forward line if we play finals then Petty, jvr and Fritta are have to be there or we will be cooked. As for the ruckman well Gawn is irreplaceable but I do hold out hope for Verrall but that is long term. If Gawn goes down this year we will have a choice of people incuding TMAC, Schache and Spargo. We are stuffed. Jvr can only be used as a ruck sparingly throughout a game.

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    1 hour ago, Ollie fan said:

    Was this your opinion at the time the contracts were signed, or is it just your opinion now? We all love the benefit of hindsight!

    Certainly was !

     

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    3 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

    Last year we drafted Jefferson. This year we traded for Fullarton. There are only a finite number of list spots. We still have Petty, JVR, and we do still have TMac and BBB. I don't know how more bullish we can be. 
     

    As for rucks, no one can replace Gawn. It would have been nice to keep Grundy but clearly it wasn't working out for him sitting at Casey, and both he and Gawn function best when rucking virtually all day. We have two project players learning the trade. Unfortunately, Fullarton, who was clearly brought in for precisely this purpose,  is now injured:  one of those things that happens but which has had ramifications.

    My point was that Bbb and Tmac are the problem. 

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    1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

    My point was that Bbb and Tmac are the problem. 

    Many would be thinking that our best 22 doesn't include either Brown or T-Mac ... they are both more so back-up players and you might rather have decent back-up than zero-experience back-up (as key forwards) We are in contention, after all

    But as others have mentioned, we don't have real cover for Gawn with Fullarton going down but it's hard to justify paying reasonable coin to more than one back up ruckman ( neither of whom may not play much at all)

    Although Schache had his contract extended so maybe the MC felt a need to have another back up ruckman anyway

    Many of us were wondering why Schache's contract was extended (if he was surplus to needs) but he now comes into play if Gawn needs proper help around the ground (forward line rucking can be the domain of JVR) 

    Schache as the sub?  Well, he's played that role before! 

    Edited by Macca

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    1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

    Tomo has never played back up ruck for us.

    You're right 'dazz', but he has spent some time in the ruck for GWS.

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    23 minutes ago, Macca said:

    Many would be thinking that our best 22 doesn't include either Brown or T-Mac ... they are both back-up players and you might rather have decent back-up than zero-experience back-up.  We are in contention, after all

    But as others have mentioned, we don't have real cover for Gawn with Fullarton going down but it's hard to justify paying reasonable coin to more than one back up ruckman ( neither of whom may not play much at all)

    Although Schache had his contract extended so maybe the MC felt a need to have another back up ruckman anyway

    Many of us were wondering why Schache's contract was extended (if he was surplus to needs) but he now comes into play if Gawn needs proper help around the ground (forward line rucking can be the domain of JVR) 

    Schache as the sub?  Well, he's played that role before! 

    IMO JVR should not be rucked at all.

    He needs to concentrate on his forward craft and not be taken away from his position, confused and increasing the risk of injury.

    We have others to be the backup ruck, who aren’t as valuable to our forward hopes.

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    24 minutes ago, Redleg said:

    IMO JVR should not be rucked at all.

    He needs to concentrate on his forward craft and not be taken away from his position, confused and increasing the risk of injury.

    We have others to be the backup ruck, who aren’t as valuable to our forward hopes.

    I agree but we might have to use JVR as a bit of a forward ruck if Gawn needs time off the ground.  As Max gets older, we will need to manage him through a long season.  Max has taken a lot of punishment over the years 

    As it stands, Gawn might only be on the ground for 80%-85% of the games

    So, maybe a total of 8-10 ruck contests in the forward line for a player like JVR ... not a great workload for a forward ruck

    But the question might be is who rucks around the ground with Gawn on the bench? 

    With Fullarton & Brown not being options to start the season, who else is there? Schache?  T-Mac? 

    And if Schache or T-Mac are preferred as the relief ruck, where do they play on the ground when they are not rucking?  The can't really play as the sub as either might be called upon to ruck early in the game

    n.b. T-Mac was the relief ruck in both finals last year and JVR was called upon occasionally in the QF

    Gawn shouldered the large majority of the rucking role in both finals but can he now do that for an entire season without risking breaking down?

    Edited by Macca

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    5 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

    And it's not just us, by the way. How would Brisbane go if Joe Daniher went down? That would leave them with just Hipwood as a KPF. Collingwood have already lost McStay and would be in trouble if Mihocek gets injured. Etc etc etc

    A lot would depend on who's going down on who up there.

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