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Forward Line & Backup Ruck Issues Going into 2024 and beyond ...


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On 29/01/2024 at 11:01, DeeSpencer said:

Fullarton can go on the Inactive List if done for the year but surely worst case scenario is tendon tear and missing 12 weeks.

7 Feb training gallery, pic 9, appears to show him booted, running and doing ball work?

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On 29/01/2024 at 06:56, dazzledavey36 said:

Strange comment..

No one is questioning Fullarton as the selection, the question was whether we had other options for that back up experienced ruckman which it's well known that we did in Scott Lycett.

Fullarton is more forward then ruck and that's been evident all along. If you go through training reports for instance, Will Verrall has dominated over him in the ruck duels in the match sims...

...which puts Verrall at what sort of level? Good enough for Max back-up?

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6 hours ago, Demonland said:

280824.png1013532.png1008893.png291867.png291533.png298470.png1008541.png

IMG_2482.thumb.png.baeac458de6c8e234e2372168ffabace.pngGive this guy the 8th guernsey.

Edited by Tarax Club
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Losing all these forwards is a reminder as to what happened to us after the '94 Prelim

We lost Lyon, Schwarz & Jakovich for a huge amount of games.  Neitz was thrown forward but that left the backline short, IIRC

1996 & 1997 and to a lesser degree 1995 were write-off years but Balme lost his job.  Of course we bounced back under Neale Daniher but nevertheless, injuries cruelled us for 3 straight years prior to 1998

Forwards can and do win you the games.  A functioning forward line requires decent talent levels and right now, we are now highly dependant on the midfield, structures, game plan and the backline

We need to eke out some wins until the time comes where our forward line is a real threat again

Edited by Macca
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There is so much hand wringing and hope of failure for us in the media.  A player might be having loads managed or precautions taken, and they become the most important player on our list and ready for an amputation.

We might be good enough as we are, with a forward line of JVR, frittata, Kosi and McAdam, with Petracca going forward has a lot to like.  Petty or McDonald will be nice when ready and will be useful.  We also have disco and Adam’s to offer more depth down back, and as we saw with McVee last year, players may emerge.

My trousers have no nasty marks in them yet.  Let’s see how we shape up in the praccy games and the first 6 rounds.  I think the work on transition and delivery into f50 will be more important.

summary: glass half full for now…

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6 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

There is so much hand wringing and hope of failure for us in the media.  A player might be having loads managed or precautions taken, and they become the most important player on our list and ready for an amputation.

We might be good enough as we are, with a forward line of JVR, frittata, Kosi and McAdam, with Petracca going forward has a lot to like.  Petty or McDonald will be nice when ready and will be useful.  We also have disco and Adam’s to offer more depth down back, and as we saw with McVee last year, players may emerge.

My trousers have no nasty marks in them yet.  Let’s see how we shape up in the praccy games and the first 6 rounds.  I think the work on transition and delivery into f50 will be more important.

summary: glass half full for now…

Half full of the Barnaby Joyce special if you reckon McDonald is going to be useful up forward.

The only way to be positive is that at least we are running out of forwards at the start of the year this year, that might be better than running out of them at the end of the year as we have the last 2 years.

We need Petty and JVR firing at the business end. We need Schache or once he's right Fullarton to do enough to cover the gaps.

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3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Half full of the Barnaby Joyce special if you reckon McDonald is going to be useful up forward.

T-Mac can be useful for selected games if he can get his body right.  And the reason why T-Mac still has to be in the conversation is that Petty has to get over his foot issues

And Brown is in the reckoning as well because in an ideal world, the MC would prefer 2 bona-fide key forwards

So it's JVR & Petty or JVR and ????

Many are envisaging JVR to CHF so the 3 aforementioned players can play deep forward

The tricky part is the 2nd ruck and whether Schache or Fullarton get into the 22.  If Max is 100% fit, then it's doubtful we'd use the 2nd ruck as the sub again

If so, then maybe JVR has to spend limited time rucking (forward line only?)

And someone else down back to cover a few ruck duals.  If Tomlinson is the 3rd tall backman, maybe him

The over-riding question is whether T-Mac & Brown can get their bodies right at all

So if all 3 don't come up, who is the 2nd key forward, DS? (I put forward Tomlinsin but with no confidence)

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4 hours ago, Macca said:

T-Mac can be useful for selected games if he can get his body right.  And the reason why T-Mac still has to be in the conversation is that Petty has to get over his foot issues

And Brown is in the reckoning as well because in an ideal world, the MC would prefer 2 bona-fide key forwards

So it's JVR & Petty or JVR and ????

Many are envisaging JVR to CHF so the 3 aforementioned players can play deep forward

The tricky part is the 2nd ruck and whether Schache or Fullarton get into the 22.  If Max is 100% fit, then it's doubtful we'd use the 2nd ruck as the sub again

If so, then maybe JVR has to spend limited time rucking (forward line only?)

And someone else down back to cover a few ruck duals.  If Tomlinson is the 3rd tall backman, maybe him

The over-riding question is whether T-Mac & Brown can get their bodies right at all

So if all 3 don't come up, who is the 2nd key forward, DS? (I put forward Tomlinsin but with no confidence)

I have no faith in Tommy, not until he either does something at afl level or dominates Casey for a month. I like the move of him down back and hope he’s heathy and able to push his case in that role, because apart from physical issues he seems mentally shot as a forward.

Same goes for BBB. Zero faith he can do anything at the top level these days, his Casey form late last year was dreadful.

My depth chart for next man up after Petty and JVR would be: Fullarton (once healthy) > Schache > the old boys > who knows (Jefferson or Verrall)

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People need to calm down a bit,  we will be going in with the same fwd line we had in the back half of last year, and got us within a kick of a Prelim (without JVR). 

Whilst it's not ideal we know how to play with this fwd line and will do untill the cattle are ready to trott out onto the park.

 

Play the long game, not round 1.

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On 08/02/2024 at 14:09, Edward Langdon said:

I can smell a 7.16 kind of scoreline for round 0.

And if so

"You better close your eyes,

You better bow your head,

And wait for the Richochet"!

DEEP PURPLE

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17 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I have no faith in Tommy, not until he either does something at afl level or dominates Casey for a month. I like the move of him down back and hope he’s heathy and able to push his case in that role, because apart from physical issues he seems mentally shot as a forward.

Same goes for BBB. Zero faith he can do anything at the top level these days, his Casey form late last year was dreadful.

My depth chart for next man up after Petty and JVR would be: Fullarton (once healthy) > Schache > the old boys > who knows (Jefferson or Verrall)

So you've got Schache as a key forward against Sydney (assuming Fullarton doesn't come up)

It may happen but I don't believe Goodwin sees Schache as a KPF ... we had numerous chances to play him forward last year but he kept getting overlooked despite the losses of our key forwards

He wasn't even a break-glass-in-emergency reserve as we thought he might have been

However, we're down to the bones now, so if T-Mac & McAdam don't come up, we might have to play Schache forward

Edited by Macca
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7 hours ago, Macca said:

So you've got Schache as a key forward against Sydney (assuming Fullarton doesn't come up)

It may happen but I don't believe Goodwin sees Schache as a KPF ... we had numerous chances to play him forward last year but he kept getting overlooked despite the losses of our key forwards

He wasn't even a break-glass-in-emergency reserve as we thought he might have been

However, we're down to the bones now, so if T-Mac & McAdam don't come up, we might have to play Schache forward

Yes it’s Schache time. JVR and he might just click! 

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I think the injury "crisis" is overblown.

The backline is fit and burgeoning with talent.

The midfield is mostly fit, yes there's the ongoing questions about Clarrie and Gus but that was known information. Hunter has a calf injury he can't shake but Billings has arrived and Woey,  Laurie and Windsor may be ready to step up.

The forward line is the issue, but we knew Petty has a nasty injury that takes time to get over, TMac and BBB are questionable propositions and McAdam is known to be mercurial but injury prone. Kosi is out for a week.  The only news is Fullarton's injury and who knows if he's better than Schache anyway? If we're a Fullarton injury from panic then we're not who I think we are.

I think vs Sydney we can go with JVR, Schache, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Chandler and Laurie/Woey/Billings/Kolt. Throw in a bit of Petracca. And then someone has to make way for Kosi vs the Dogs.

Sure, we don't want more forward line injuries right now but by the same token Petty, McAdam, TMac, BBB and Fullarton are not dead and some will filter back soon enough.

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2 minutes ago, old55 said:

Sure, we don't want more forward line injuries right now but by the same token Petty, McAdam, TMac, BBB and Fullarton are not dead and some will filter back soon enough.

And Melksham will be back towards the end of the season.  As you said, Kozzie out for the first game only

But 7 out is umprecedented, all the same 

Which leaves us with this ...

5 minutes ago, old55 said:

I think vs Sydney we can go with JVR, Schache, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Chandler and Laurie/Woey/Billings/Kolt. Throw in a bit of Petracca

If Clarrie is in the side we can use Petracca more forward but without Oliver, it might be a risk using Petracca away from the midfield

If all goes well, the forward line we're left with might be able to help us win the game but a lot might rest with Fritsch.  Chandler & JVR are 2 others who can impact the scoreboard

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8 hours ago, 58er said:

Yes it’s Schache time. JVR and he might just click! 

I reckon we'll need to see a fair sample size of Schache as a forward before we start proclaiming him as the 2nd coming of Jono Brown

I genuinely wish him well if picked but I don't have high expectations.  Maybe we can use him as a decoy

Remembering that we had numerous chances to play him last year but he kept getting overlooked.  Not sure the coach has him in his plans (at least as a forward) 

In my view, we extended his contract by 1 year so as he could be a back up ruckman (of sorts)

i.e. if Gawn can't play for whatever reason, we need back up and with Fullarton not being available right now, Schache is next in line (before Verrall & Farris-White) 

Edited by Macca
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18 hours ago, Macca said:

So you've got Schache as a key forward against Sydney (assuming Fullarton doesn't come up)

It may happen but I don't believe Goodwin sees Schache as a KPF ... we had numerous chances to play him forward last year but he kept getting overlooked despite the losses of our key forwards

He wasn't even a break-glass-in-emergency reserve as we thought he might have been

However, we're down to the bones now, so if T-Mac & McAdam don't come up, we might have to play Schache forward

Yes I have Schache just about by default.

I’d have Melk or J Smith ahead of him as they were last year but obviously both are unavailable. 

T Mc was picked ahead of him late last year but another year older, another injury and a backline freshen up is required for him now.

McAdam, possibly could play alongside Fritsch and maybe Tracc forward and just the one tall. I’m not dismissive of that line up, but I’d rather start the year with a genuine 2nd tall option. I wouldn’t want to load up Max and JVR to effectively do the job of 3 if not 4 players from the very start of the year.

My expectations remain very low for the Schach attack but there’s hope that he has a year on continuity with team mates and might find some more easy ball on the lead even if he’s still suss at the contest 

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48 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Yes I have Schache just about by default.

I’d have Melk or J Smith ahead of him as they were last year but obviously both are unavailable. 

T Mc was picked ahead of him late last year but another year older, another injury and a backline freshen up is required for him now.

McAdam, possibly could play alongside Fritsch and maybe Tracc forward and just the one tall. I’m not dismissive of that line up, but I’d rather start the year with a genuine 2nd tall option. I wouldn’t want to load up Max and JVR to effectively do the job of 3 if not 4 players from the very start of the year.

My expectations remain very low for the Schach attack but there’s hope that he has a year on continuity with team mates and might find some more easy ball on the lead even if he’s still suss at the contest 

Schache was the no.2 pick in his draft year so players picked that high nearly always get longer to prove themselves or get 2 or 3 chances at different clubs (unless they live up to the no.2 pick and the expectations)

Schache getting picked as the 2nd KPF may well happen but my expections wouldn't be high

However, if he comes into the side and does well, I'll be the first to congratulate him

Edited by Macca
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On 08/02/2024 at 15:09, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

...which puts Verrall at what sort of level? Good enough for Max back-up?

Hopefully Will gets a decent run in our two pre season hit outs and shows enough promise to be considered for selection 

His biggest weakness last year was lack of fitness that meant he struggled to ruck for extended periods and a whole match at Casey 

Hopefully a better pre season has allowed him to build a bigger engine 

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4 hours ago, Macca said:

And Melksham will be back towards the end of the season.  As you said, Kozzie out for the first game only

But 7 out is umprecedented, all the same 

Which leaves us with this ...

If Clarrie is in the side we can use Petracca more forward but without Oliver, it might be a risk using Petracca away from the midfield

If all goes well, the forward line we're left with might be able to help us win the game but a lot might rest with Fritsch.  Chandler & JVR are 2 others who can impact the scoreboard

If Oliver plays against Sydney I’d prefer he spends time in F50 rather than Trac

I know Trac has spent more time as a forward recently but seriously given where we are today I can’t see how Clayton can run out more than a half as a midfielder in early rounds 

Neither are sharpshooters when it comes to goal kicking but I do think Trac is better at delivering into the F 50 then Oliver who (imho) tends to bomb the ball in without much precision too often 

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1 hour ago, Sydee said:

If Oliver plays against Sydney I’d prefer he spends time in F50 rather than Trac

I know Trac has spent more time as a forward recently but seriously given where we are today I can’t see how Clayton can run out more than a half as a midfielder in early rounds 

Neither are sharpshooters when it comes to goal kicking but I do think Trac is better at delivering into the F 50 then Oliver who (imho) tends to bomb the ball in without much precision too often 

Yeah, may be, re Clarrie & Trac

Maybe a bit of both, mix and match. One thing is for sure, we need a bit of class up forward

Billings can add to our midfield mix but he's not noted for his goalkicking prowess

McAdam has just turned 29 and could be the one if he can get himself reasonably fit ... in his 50 games he has kicked 2-4 goals on 21 occasions.  So every other week (in rough terms) he impacts the scoreboard

I don't watch enough football to know what McAdam's 'assist' rate might be

Edited by Macca
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57 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yeah, may be, re Clarrie & Trac

Maybe a bit of both, mix and match. One thing is for sure, we need a bit of class up forward

Billings can add to our midfield mix but he's not noted for his goalkicking prowess

McAdam who has just turned 25 and could be the one if he can get himself reasonably fit ... in his 50 games he has kicked 2-4 goals on 21 occasions.  So every other week (in rough terms) he impacts the scoreboard

I don't watch enough football to know what McAdam's 'assist' rate might be

McAdam is 29 in May. He's a talent that's for sure. Can he play close to a full season and find his mojo......that's the million dollar question

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11 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

McAdam is 29 in May. He's a talent that's for sure. Can he play close to a full season and find his mojo......that's the million dollar question

Anyway, he's got roughly 3 years to make a contribution then

He's not in my best forward line, all the same

HF   Fritsch    JVR      ANB/ Petracca

F      Kozzie    Petty        Melksham

Chandler as a 7th forward rotating in

McAdam next in line

I'd give that forward line above at least a B+

Our current forward line C-

There's lies the difference between being a genuine premiership chance or maybe just as a finalist

So we need Petty & Melksham back in, in order to have a great chance to contend (providing we don't get a rash of injuries elsewhere)

But neither have to be available right now in order for the team to win more games than it loses

In 2021, we won our first 9 games but we were at full strength from the get-go

This year, we have to be patient in terms of having a close on full list to choose from

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1 hour ago, Sydee said:

If Oliver plays against Sydney I’d prefer he spends time in F50 rather than Trac

I know Trac has spent more time as a forward recently but seriously given where we are today I can’t see how Clayton can run out more than a half as a midfielder in early rounds 

Neither are sharpshooters when it comes to goal kicking but I do think Trac is better at delivering into the F 50 then Oliver who (imho) tends to bomb the ball in without much precision too often 

Yes I would give Clarry a go up forward so  he doesn’t have to run all day and of course Trac as well if needed. He finds goals when forward of the centre like kids find Easter eggs on a hunt. 

I hope McAdam can get into the team with his fitness. Billing’s prob a sure cert now In final 23. 

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