The Premiership Window Closing?

[Garbo 1,364]

Window is shut, we are already behind the best teams and will continue to slip slowly until we need to rebuild in 4-5 years time and we can then start all over again, I was hoping we would be able to sustain like cats and swans have over a long period of time but I just don’t see it happening. Maybe in 10-12 years time we might do better. I just hope I don’t need to wait nearly 60 years

[KingDingAling 3,623]

Had we of cashed Petty in, and gotten rightful value for Grundy, we’d have extended our window. I think we’re still firmly in the window, but I’m more worried about once it passes. How quickly things can fall. I hope we assess at years end, and be more active in acquiring high end talent.

[Dee-monic 620]

Two years ago we were definitely a destination club.

IF

Petty goes to Adelaide next season at a time

WHEN

we are still feeling the huge loss of Angus Brayshaw;

the finishing line is getting closer for Max and May;

Brown, McDonald and possibly Melksham will reach that line;

and Joel Smith may be gone,

THEN

would we still be seen as serious contenders?

 

[leave it to deever 16,213]

21 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I honestly feel Goodwin’s contract is 1 year too long at the minute. A failed year this year would put a lot of pressure on him and then he’d have 2025 to turn things around. Crazy to think he has 3 full years ahead of him (it expires 2026) which brings him to 10 years in total at the club. If there’s not at least another grand final in 2024-2026 then surely his contract won’t be renewed. Although I fear our window would definitely be shut by 2027.

I feel that he's on shifting ground at the minute.

A failure to make finals and win at least one is the litmus test for me.

He's been making some strange selections and isn't proactive enough on game days.

He's a premiership coach but how much currency does that give him?

Maybe I'm being harsh but I feel like his selections in last year's finals may have cost us a gf birth.

It's a tough call.

[demoncat 647]

32 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I feel that he's on shifting ground at the minute.

A failure to make finals and win at least one is the litmus test for me.

He's been making some strange selections and isn't proactive enough on game days.

He's a premiership coach but how much currency does that give him?

Maybe I'm being harsh but I feel like his selections in last year's finals may have cost us a gf birth.

It's a tough call.

Not to turn this into the ‘Is Goody the Right Guy’ thread, but I do think this will be a defining year for Goody 

Anything less then at least a finals win will be seen as an abject failure and rightly so given the calibre of our list 

Having said that I actually think Goody’s coaching was much improved last year and our finals exit was more about our fwd line injuries than any one coaching decision

And there have been signs this preseason that he’s been trying to adapt our game plan to address our fwd connection and slow ball movement issues 

But at the end of the day the proof will be results on game day, and we’ve already seen another selection head scratcher with bringing Spargo straight in at the expense of Billings who was one of our best preseason performers 

The last thing our club needs is to have a Bevo situation where you’re beholden to a coach off the back of a Premiership win, but we also don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water given we’ve shown a lot more consistency than most teams over the past three years 

Hopefully we won’t need to be having these conversations come the off season, but if you think this club has one of if not the best lists (which I do) then our results need to start matching it, and sooner rather than later 

[Sydee 3,675]

1 hour ago, demoncat said:

Not to turn this into the ‘Is Goody the Right Guy’ thread, but I do think this will be a defining year for Goody 

Anything less then at least a finals win will be seen as an abject failure and rightly so given the calibre of our list 

Having said that I actually think Goody’s coaching was much improved last year and our finals exit was more about our fwd line injuries than any one coaching decision

And there have been signs this preseason that he’s been trying to adapt our game plan to address our fwd connection and slow ball movement issues 

But at the end of the day the proof will be results on game day, and we’ve already seen another selection head scratcher with bringing Spargo straight in at the expense of Billings who was one of our best preseason performers 

The last thing our club needs is to have a Bevo situation where you’re beholden to a coach off the back of a Premiership win, but we also don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water given we’ve shown a lot more consistency than most teams over the past three years 

Hopefully we won’t need to be having these conversations come the off season, but if you think this club has one of if not the best lists (which I do) then our results need to start matching it, and sooner rather than later 

I find it strange that a lot of people consider our list so strong - personally I don’t think it’s clearly better than any of GWS , Brisbane , Carlton , Collingwood as examples 

Is it good and better than half the comp? Probably, but it does have some clear weaknesses imo - I think these have been discussed often and include 

- Genuine A grade tall forwards 

- Goal kicking mids 

- Genuine leg speed 

- ex Pickett limited options in the true small forward options

- Beyond Max no ruck depth

- A back six that is very good at most things but a bit shaky when the ball comes in fast and hits the ground 

Considering some of this I’m not sure anyone should be overly critical of the coach when the last three years we have finished top 4 

[titan_uranus 22,811]

3 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I find it strange that a lot of people consider our list so strong - personally I don’t think it’s clearly better than any of GWS , Brisbane , Carlton , Collingwood as examples 

Is it good and better than half the comp? Probably, but it does have some clear weaknesses imo - I think these have been discussed often and include 

- Genuine A grade tall forwards 

- Goal kicking mids 

- Genuine leg speed 

- ex Pickett limited options in the true small forward options

- Beyond Max no ruck depth

- A back six that is very good at most things but a bit shaky when the ball comes in fast and hits the ground 

Considering some of this I’m not sure anyone should be overly critical of the coach when the last three years we have finished top 4 

It's one of the biggest arguments on here.

I think it informs most Demonlanders' disappointment. From the starting point of "our list is the best in the competition", losses and finals failures become much harder to stomach.

But as you say, when you start thinking about it it becomes hard to justify the argument that we have the best list, or even close to it. 

1. We have, at best, an average selection of tall forwards - no matter how you rate Petty and JVR, each of Carlton, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, the Dogs, Geelong and Fremantle have better options, even North and West Coast have one tall forward more talented/proven than either of ours.
2. No matter how you rate Pickett, ANB and our other mid/small forwards, many of the aforementioned clubs have equal/better mid/small forwards. 
3. And no matter how highly you rate Gawn, Trac, Oliver and Viney, our midfield depth is not necessarily better than Carlton, Collingwood, Brisbane, GWS, the Dogs or Sydney, and in some respects (e.g. wingers, pace and skill) is worse than some/all of those sides.

There's no doubt that we have as much proven elite talent on our list as any other side (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney, May, Lever, Frtisch) but a list isn't just a club's top 8-10 A-graders, it's 44 players deep.

If you take the two competing arguments - we have a great list and Goodwin's wasting it, or we have an average list and Goodwin's therefore done well to have us in the top 4 for three straight years with a flag - there are seriously substantial reasons to say the latter is the better argument.

[beelzebub 22,373]

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's one of the biggest arguments on here.

I think it informs most Demonlanders' disappointment. From the starting point of "our list is the best in the competition", losses and finals failures become much harder to stomach.

But as you say, when you start thinking about it it becomes hard to justify the argument that we have the best list, or even close to it. 

1. We have, at best, an average selection of tall forwards - no matter how you rate Petty and JVR, each of Carlton, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, the Dogs, Geelong and Fremantle have better options, even North and West Coast have one tall forward more talented/proven than either of ours.
2. No matter how you rate Pickett, ANB and our other mid/small forwards, many of the aforementioned clubs have equal/better mid/small forwards. 
3. And no matter how highly you rate Gawn, Trac, Oliver and Viney, our midfield depth is not necessarily better than Carlton, Collingwood, Brisbane, GWS, the Dogs or Sydney, and in some respects (e.g. wingers, pace and skill) is worse than some/all of those sides.

There's no doubt that we have as much proven elite talent on our list as any other side (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney, May, Lever, Frtisch) but a list isn't just a club's top 8-10 A-graders, it's 44 players deep.

If you take the two competing arguments - we have a great list and Goodwin's wasting it, or we have an average list and Goodwin's therefore done well to have us in the top 4 for three straight years with a flag - there are seriously substantial reasons to say the latter is the better argument.

I essentially agree... there are elements to the above that most certainly ring true.

We have a decent ...ok list with a few standouts...a few who could be anything ( but will they )

There is another 'option' to that rather decent synopsis  (^^^^^^ ) ..and that is quite simply what outcomes/results might another Coach have garnered ??? 

 

Edited March 11 by beelzebub

[demoncat 647]

22 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I find it strange that a lot of people consider our list so strong - personally I don’t think it’s clearly better than any of GWS , Brisbane , Carlton , Collingwood as examples 

Is it good and better than half the comp? Probably, but it does have some clear weaknesses imo - I think these have been discussed often and include 

- Genuine A grade tall forwards 

- Goal kicking mids 

- Genuine leg speed 

- ex Pickett limited options in the true small forward options

- Beyond Max no ruck depth

- A back six that is very good at most things but a bit shaky when the ball comes in fast and hits the ground 

Considering some of this I’m not sure anyone should be overly critical of the coach when the last three years we have finished top 4 

 

10 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's one of the biggest arguments on here.

I think it informs most Demonlanders' disappointment. From the starting point of "our list is the best in the competition", losses and finals failures become much harder to stomach.

But as you say, when you start thinking about it it becomes hard to justify the argument that we have the best list, or even close to it. 

1. We have, at best, an average selection of tall forwards - no matter how you rate Petty and JVR, each of Carlton, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, the Dogs, Geelong and Fremantle have better options, even North and West Coast have one tall forward more talented/proven than either of ours.
2. No matter how you rate Pickett, ANB and our other mid/small forwards, many of the aforementioned clubs have equal/better mid/small forwards. 
3. And no matter how highly you rate Gawn, Trac, Oliver and Viney, our midfield depth is not necessarily better than Carlton, Collingwood, Brisbane, GWS, the Dogs or Sydney, and in some respects (e.g. wingers, pace and skill) is worse than some/all of those sides.

There's no doubt that we have as much proven elite talent on our list as any other side (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney, May, Lever, Frtisch) but a list isn't just a club's top 8-10 A-graders, it's 44 players deep.

If you take the two competing arguments - we have a great list and Goodwin's wasting it, or we have an average list and Goodwin's therefore done well to have us in the top 4 for three straight years with a flag - there are seriously substantial reasons to say the latter is the better argument.

Both fair arguments and there is a part of me that agrees

And while I do think we have one of the best lists, I don’t think it’s considerably better than that of Brisbane, Pies, GWS or Carlton (and we certainly have certain deficiencies in fwd and depth personnel as described)

But I think the key difference is that we’ve seen the potential of our list in 2021 and that potential is considerably higher than what we’ve seen from these other sides (at least in finals)

I think that’s what’s hard to get past for so many Demonlanders - when you win a finals series in the manner we did and you’ve got a list that looked ready to compete for many more years (as opposed to Geelong in 2022) it’s difficult to reconcile that with our recent finals failures (despite the legitimate reasons for these losses)

It’s all a matter of perspective I guess 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[redandbluemakepurple 320]

On 08/03/2024 at 06:18, beelzebub said:

Do any care to revisit this conundrum ?

Is the window half open or half closed ?

We're but one game in....i know....  but 2 teams showed up.... only one was ready.

We've had as long as any to BE READY.... no ??

It always concerned me we had a somewhat hard first half dozen games and that would set the cast for the season. 

First offering was just this side of putrid tbh.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to a loss. Ive thought for some time we have a mismatch between players/abilities and preferred ( by Goodwin) game style.

We have a lot....a LOT of work to do if we're to be even competitive this season.

The scoreline flattered us in a fashion. Sydney isnt that world conquering...  but easily accounted for us.

Not thinking we need worry about a straight sets exit this year......

I haven't changed my thoughts for us this year.... but am happy to be shown wrong.

Tough year ahead. imho :(

Other's thoughts ?? 

The mortar is starting to dry.  

[ANG13 1,596]

3 hours ago, Sydee said:

Considering some of this I’m not sure anyone should be overly critical of the coach when the last three years we have finished top 4 

I think the club, players and coach and coaching staff have done an incredible job the last few years. But when your club finishes the regular season top four but doesn’t win finals, serious questions need to be asked and answered. I also think our list profile relative to the competition has been a very strong list over the last few years. This year I think we still have a good list but it’s not a walk up start top four list. I think our list has peaked and there is a few clubs coming up that have better balanced lists. 

[gregdemon 542]

20 hours ago, Garbo said:

Window is shut, we are already behind the best teams and will continue to slip slowly until we need to rebuild in 4-5 years time and we can then start all over again, I was hoping we would be able to sustain like cats and swans have over a long period of time but I just don’t see it happening. Maybe in 10-12 years time we might do better. I just hope I don’t need to wait nearly 60 years

No top four this year just too many things gone wrong  (Gus etc)   make 8 win one final prob acceptable.   Max May  how much longer especially the way Max is attacked every week   Is Pickett ever going to come on ?  Petty made of Glass ?     I think a few years after this.. may be a rebuild which the system is in place to knock you done after a few years.   How much longer had FRISCTH got to go ? clubs will throw the kitchen sink at him      Best chance of course(apart from 2021 was last year and muffed it    I always said I would be happy to win one  which we did but could have been better