47 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

I was more annoyed than impressed, that if we were to put 4 quarters of effort in, that we would have walked straight into a PF.

Fair enough.

But whilst i take your point that prior to the Gus incident (which occurred at the 8 minute mark of the first quarter) we weren't as switched on as we should have been, surely you concede that for the rest of that quarter we were understandably in la la land psychologically and emotionally and that had a direct impact on our effort and performance level in the first.  

Basically the first quarter was a write off.  

Which left 3 quarters to put in maximum effort. Which they did.

Are you not impressed that after quarter time they rallied and put maximum effort in right up to the final siren?  

I mean plenty of teams, including plenty of other dees teams over the years, would have turned up their toes after the first quarter (how many finals end up in a blow out after one team is jumped in the first quarter).

We didn't and whilst I understand your point about how we started the game i think the team deserves a lot of credit for their fight in the last 3 quarters. 

On 16/12/2023 at 12:03, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Quick ball movement to an uncluttered fwd line and practice goal kicking.

We threw the flag away last season.

Exactly, you'd want to cement a permanent forward line and get the system right before bringing in more new blood.

It was not and easy year for our forwards and especially JVR.

FWIW the etymology of "trolling" in the on-line world dates back to the early 1990s and originated in the Usenet message groups (a kind of pre-cursor to Reddit).  There's still at least one poster who posts here that posted in the Usenet group rec.sport.football.australian - "it's only other Vets that understand"

Trolling in this context is based on the fishing practice of trolling.  Trolls deliberately post controversial bait in the hope of snaring other posters on the line to their undoing.  It's got nothing to do with the mythical creatures who live under bridges despite modern misconceptions.

To that end there are very few "trolls" on Demonland, but quite a lot on Big Footy - I've even done a bit on occasion myself there for amusement.  They are most likely to be opposition supporters trying to get a rise out of you.  That's not what's happening here - mostly genuine supporters are posting their mostly genuine views and there's genuine disagreement.

In particular, the artist @Straight Sets Simon, formerly known as Clint Bizkit is in no way a troll and is not even a perennially negative poster, heaven knows we have a few of them - who I am just resisting calling out right here.  Clint has posted here constructively for a long time.  Yes, they've got a bee in their bonnet about Schache as the sub in the SF (probably the 20th most important factor in us not winning the flag IMO) and have run too far with it IMO with the screen name changes, but it happens - we're all pretty disappointed in the outcome of last season.

PS. For @Demonstone amusement that is etymology of trolling, some knowledge of entomology can help with the bait. 

Edited December 19, 20231 yr by old55

5 hours ago, binman said:

A serious question, ie I'm not being facetious. 

For the sake of argument lets say you are right and the 'way we started the QF was nothing short of abysmal, bordering on pathetic' and we 'weren't ready to play football right from the start'.

And for the sake of argument let's say we agree that losing Gus had a massive impact on the game.

For the sake of argument, let's leave the obvious, and completely understandable, emotional impact of Gus being poleaxed just a few minutes into the game out of the equation. 

But let's agree that from a purely footy perspective losing Gus for almost an entire game had a significant impact on our chances of winning the game.

I meant to say, we lost one of our best players and leaders, a starting midfielder, had to cover all the kms Gus runs in a game, lost his defensive smarts and had to bring our sub on early, robbing us of the chance to bring a fresh player on late in the third or early in the last quarter. 

And finally, for the sake of argument, lets agree that inaccuracy cost us the game and that we were clearly the better, stronger team in the last quarter. 

So to the question.

Given we started poorly, lost one our best players only a few minutes into the game and were down 20 points at the end of the first quarter, were you impressed with our mental strength to fight our way back into the contest and be in a position to beat the team who finished top of the ladder and went on to win the flag?

No!

18 minutes ago, old55 said:

PS. For @Demonstone amusement that is etymology of trolling, some knowledge of entomology can help with the bait. 

People who confuse entomology and etymology bug me in a way that I cannot put into words.

4 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

People who confuse entomology and etymology bug me in a way that I cannot put into words.

I see what you did there.

1 hour ago, old55 said:

In particular, the artist @Straight Sets Simon, formerly known as Clint Bizkit is in no way a troll and is not even a perennially negative poster, heaven knows we have a few of them - who I am just resisting calling out right here.  Clint has posted here constructively for a long time.  Yes, they've got a bee in their bonnet about Schache as the sub in the SF (probably the 20th most important factor in us not winning the flag IMO) and have run too far with it IMO with the screen name changes, but it happens - we're all pretty disappointed in the outcome of last season.

Yeah nah, Troll of the highest order.

Besides, as The Bard asked, what’s in a name? Troll/not a troll… same deliberately inflammatory and mind-numbingly repetitious behaviour by any name.

Oh, I almost forgot… IN MY OPINION. 😉 

Edited December 19, 20231 yr by WalkingCivilWar

31 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Yeah nah, Troll of the highest order.

Besides, as The Bard asked, what’s in a name? Troll/not a troll… same deliberately inflammatory and mind-numbingly repetitious behaviour by any name.

Oh, I almost forgot… IN MY OPINION. 😉 

No, a troll is specific. And it's totally ridiculous to call Clint a "Troll of the highest order".

I tried to give you the history for accuracy, which I thought, given your posting history about the importance of words, you'd appreciate.

Edited December 19, 20231 yr by old55

3 hours ago, old55 said:

No, a troll is specific. And it's totally ridiculous to call Clint a "Troll of the highest order".

I tried to give you the history for accuracy, which I thought, given your posting history about the importance of words, you'd appreciate.

Never mind. I’ve PMd you instead  

 

Edited December 19, 20231 yr by WalkingCivilWar

7 hours ago, binman said:

Basically the first quarter was a write off.  

Which left 3 quarters to put in maximum effort. Which they did.

Are you not impressed that after quarter time they rallied and put maximum effort in right up to the final siren?  

No I was not impressed. Failure does not impress me.

Edited December 19, 20231 yr by Demon Disciple

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

No I was not impressed. Failure does not impress me.

Too bad you picked the dees to support then.  Failure is part of the deal.

Not sure how long you have been a dees fan, but as someone who has been supporting the dees for half a century the current model of failure sure beats the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s and 2010s model.

 

Edited December 19, 20231 yr by binman

30+ years

On 18/12/2023 at 18:48, Grapeviney said:

 

Show them Rocky IV.

The way he beat Drago in Russia is inspirational. 

Put away the footys in preseason and bring out the chickens!

On 18/12/2023 at 17:34, WalkingCivilWar said:

What about calling them out over and over and over again… and again and again and again? And the name-calling… there’s nothing wrong with that?

All coaches make bad calls at times and yes, folks will call them out. But ffs, after about the thousandth time it’s well and truly insufferable. As for the disrespectful name-calling: that’s NEVER acceptable. 

You may not like it, but Goodwin is under the pump for next year. From inside. Phone calls and video hookups have occurred and heared discussions over dinner tables

How many teams lose 4 home finals in succession with the talent we have on our list?

Sorry, but it’s not good enough 

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You may not like it, but Goodwin is under the pump for next year. From inside. Phone calls and video hookups have occurred and heared discussions over dinner tables

How many teams lose 4 home finals in succession with the talent we have on our list?

Sorry, but it’s not good enough 

You’re missing my point… it’s the childish name-calling with which I take issue. Also, the lack of respect.

Besides, I heard both Kate and Perty speak last night at the AGM and I’ll take that over eavesdropping at dinner tables any day. 

22 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

You’re missing my point… it’s the childish name-calling with which I take issue. Also, the lack of respect.

Besides, I heard both Kate and Perty speak last night at the AGM and I’ll take that over eavesdropping at dinner tables any day. 

You can have your opinion. 
i have mine. This was not eavesdropping 

i know the conversations took place, and got quite heated 

13 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

30+ years

I feel your pain.

Jokes aside, as long term dees fan our outlook looking forward for say the next 10 years or so looks a hell of a lot more positive than say it did in 1980, 1990, 2000 and certainly 2010.

That said, a positive forecast is no guarantee of flags and i am in furious agreement with you that we left a flag on this table this year. 

53 minutes ago, binman said:

That said, a positive forecast is no guarantee of flags and i am in furious agreement with you that we left a flag on this table this year. 

Not an excuse but sound reasoning ... our forward line was decimated with injury and that was out of the club's control.  And then losing Brayshaw and not being able to play Petracca forward was also problematical

I'm not being disrespectful in describing our finals forward line as C- ... especially with JVR missing the Carlton final

2 months ago I posed the question on how we could possibly win 3 finals without even a half-decent forward line

I don't believe it's possible and the odds say that we were almost certainly going to be found out at some stage

I'm actually glad that being found out didn't happen in the GF

Petty, Melksham, a fit Brown and a fit T-Mac are all sharp shooters too.  As is Petracca when he is on song.  Fritsch didn't look entirely right either

Not forgetting that Gawn just couldn't find his mojo in the forward line either 

And I never make excuses 

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Not an excuse but sound reasoning ... our forward line was decimated with injury and that was out of the club's control.  And then losing Brayshaw and not being able to play Petracca forward was also problematical

I'm not being disrespectful in describing our finals forward line as C- ... especially with JVR missing the Carlton final

2 months ago I posed the question on how we could possibly win 3 finals without even a half-decent forward line

I don't believe it's possible and the odds say that we were almost certainly going to be found out at some stage

I'm actually glad that being found out didn't happen in the GF

Petty, Melksham, a fit Brown and a fit T-Mac are all sharp shooters too.  As is Petracca when he is on song.  Fritsch didn't look entirely right either

Not forgetting that Gawn just couldn't find his mojo in the forward line either 

And I never make excuses 

All good points.

To be honest i was in shock after the QF game and Gus incident - in large part because it was the worst, most awful, febrile environment i have experienced at any sporting event. 

Because of that, and becuase he had been quiet for the preceding few weeks, the JVR suspension washed over me and i didn't really factor it in when thinking ahead to the blues game.

But to a large degree, as you imply, JVR missing that game was the straw that broke the back. 

Even if he had another game he would have had his chances and with his accuracy most likely taken them.

And JVR strikes me as a big game player and so there is every chance he would have risen to the occasion and had a big impact. And Smith and JVR would have been a hard combo for the blues to cover. 

I reckon there is one factor that the impact of which consistently gets underplayed by fans and the media (and me too) - luck.

People seem to hate suggesting luck is a factor - i suspect because it feels like making excuses  and/or perhasp it so ephemeral. 

But however anyone assesses our performance, its hard to argue that once again we had our (un)fair share of bad luck. 

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by binman

Has Rivers built the fitness base for a permanent move into the midfield? 

From memory we missed the finals in 2017 by percentage, we made a Preliminary final the following year and got beat up by the eventual premiers, we had a horrid 2019 multiple surgeries, etc, just missed the finals in 2020 shortened quarters due to Covid, then actually won the Flag in ‘21. We have followed up by finishing top 4 two years in a row but we’re bundled out in straight sets due in part to injuries, inaccurate kicking and a degree of bad luck. I attended all those four finals and not once were we smashed but I was still gutted, battered, angry and frustrated, However I have put it behind me, I have moved on and I am looking forward to what we can do better and get luckier in 2024-25. I am now starting to tire of those supporters who want to keep beating the club and particularly our Very successful coach and playing group up and you have to give some Credit to the sides we played who kicked straighter and had a lot of luck go their way.!!

In case of emergency. Break the glass. Turn on the jets!

HERALD SUN LATE BREAKING NEWS

DEMONS HAVE PERFORMED HEIST OF THE OFF SEASON BY APPOINTING THIS BLOKE

Possible roles for the new appointee within the club are thought to include;  Motivational speaker, forward strategist, goal kicking guru, tactical substitute committee chairperson, moonboot studder, orange boy.

Edited December 21, 20231 yr by Tarax Club

On 17/12/2023 at 10:56, Demon17 said:

As someone else here said"...puerile..." comment re Goodwin.

Viney has the outlet kick with under a minute. He nails it we win.

He hits a blues player on the chest.

We lose. Game over.

Simon can't be out there kicking it.

Grow up and move on.

After the passion has cooled, we did pretty well given all our fwd line injuries.

On 22/12/2023 at 08:45, leave it to deever said:

After the passion has cooled, we did pretty well given all our fwd line injuries.

Agree . The flag that got away despite injuries and forward woes. We never tossed it in

On 20/12/2023 at 19:28, Macca said:

Not an excuse but sound reasoning ... our forward line was decimated with injury and that was out of the club's control.  And then losing Brayshaw and not being able to play Petracca forward was also problematical

I'm not being disrespectful in describing our finals forward line as C- ... especially with JVR missing the Carlton final

2 months ago I posed the question on how we could possibly win 3 finals without even a half-decent forward line

I don't believe it's possible and the odds say that we were almost certainly going to be found out at some stage

I'm actually glad that being found out didn't happen in the GF

Petty, Melksham, a fit Brown and a fit T-Mac are all sharp shooters too.  As is Petracca when he is on song.  Fritsch didn't look entirely right either

Not forgetting that Gawn just couldn't find his mojo in the forward line either 

And I never make excuses 

69 i50s to 35 i50s

We lost the game

Is inexcusable regardless of the rwd line we had in place