4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You laugh at the Curnow comparison straight after you just compared Windsor's output to Gulden.. eek.

Similar age?

Let's take a look huh?

I mean I compared his potential and not his output to Gulden’s but whatever

And someone else just posted his stats against Holmes in his second year, who also had similar numbers before becoming a midfield star (and I think is another example of the type of player Windsor could be)

I’ll give it to you that Caddy has similar numbers to Curnow but that’s not what I said - everyone could see the physicality Curnow had from a young age which is a significant part of his game

It was only his off field discretions which made him slip to into the teens of that draft

Anyway I’m sure if we all listened to you Dazzle we’d be kicking it on Caddy’s head so it’d be a moot point discussion - meanwhile Windsor would be tearing it up for GWS (who were going to take him with the next pick if we didn’t)

Do I think Caddy careers will project the same way as Curnow? No.. but is he showing every bit of talent to suggest hes going to be one of the star forwards of the competition in years to come potentially? Yes.

I'm not saying we made a draft blunder because I think Windsor will come good eventually, but right now our club is screaming for a Caddy type forward. Even in a [censored] Essendon team (we're not much better) the fact that hes making an impact as well as hitting the scoreboard in a team with poor delivery suggest that with more size and experience, he'll be their main focal point for the next 15 odd years.

1 minute ago, demoncat said:

I mean I compared his potential and not his output to Gulden’s but whatever

And someone else just posted his stats against Holmes in his second year, who also had similar numbers before becoming a midfield star (and I think is another example of the type of player Windsor could be)

I’ll give it to you that Caddy has similar numbers to Curnow but that’s not what I said - everyone could see the physicality Curnow had from a young age which is a significant part of his game

It was only his off field discretions which made him slip to into the teens of that draft

Anyway I’m sure if we all listened to you Dazzle we’d be kicking it on Caddy’s head so it’d be a moot point discussion - meanwhile Windsor would be tearing it up for GWS (who were going to take him with the next pick if we didn’t)

See this is where I know you're not watching Caddy.

You said he didn't have the contested marking trait of Curnow at similar age which I then provided evidence that shows otherwise that he actually did.

You're now saying its a physicality thing that he has over Caddy, which again shows that one Caddys biggest strengths is his physicality and ability to impose on games with his size. Something a lot of recruiters made note of in his draft year.

And the the last part about GWS taking Windsor with their first pick? That's factually incorrect mate and you're making things up.

Go to 0:46 of this video and the answer will be provided for you.

Edited June 20Jun 20 by dazzledavey36

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Do I think Caddy careers will project the same way as Curnow? No.. but is he showing every bit of talent to suggest hes going to be one of the star forwards of the competition in years to come potentially? Yes.

I'm not saying we made a draft blunder because I think Windsor will come good eventually, but right now our club is screaming for a Caddy type forward. Even in a [censored] Essendon team (we're not much better) the fact that hes making an impact as well as hitting the scoreboard in a team with poor delivery suggest that with more size and experience, he'll be their main focal point for the next 15 odd years.

If you look at JVRs numbers against someone like Curnow at the same age they are also very similar from memory.

These things aren't linear anyway. Last year some media pundits ranked Windsor in the top 3 from the draft, this year he's struggled a bit but probably due to the interrupted pre season.

I think that draft will be extremely strong, as will last years also.

The one that is probably the most worrying is Kolt, but again he also had a highly interrupted pre season.

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Do I think Caddy careers will project the same way as Curnow? No.. but is he showing every bit of talent to suggest hes going to be one of the star forwards of the competition in years to come potentially? Yes.

I'm not saying we made a draft blunder because I think Windsor will come good eventually, but right now our club is screaming for a Caddy type forward. Even in a [censored] Essendon team (we're not much better) the fact that hes making an impact as well as hitting the scoreboard in a team with poor delivery suggest that with more size and experience, he'll be their main focal point for the next 15 odd years.

Caddy has all of the same tools and power movements as a young Curnow. And most importantly, he's a natural forward and good finisher.

Edit: Still love Windsor and don't regret the pick. Just get him back onto a wing.

Edited June 20Jun 20 by RedFox

Just now, RedFox said:

Caddy has all of the same tools and power movements as a young Curnow. And most importantly, he's a natural forward and good finisher.

Oh! Bless!

To have one of those on one's list!!!

1 minute ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

If you look at JVRs numbers against someone like Curnow at the same age they are also very similar from memory.

These things aren't linear anyway. Last year some media pundits ranked Windsor in the top 3 from the draft, this year he's struggled a bit but probably due to the interrupted pre season.

I think that draft will be extremely strong, as will last years also.

The one that is probably the most worrying is Kolt, but again he also had a highly interrupted pre season.

These are the numbers below. I agree its aren't linear but its a roughly a good guide. I still have the up most faith in JVR that he can be our number one key forward in years to come. Like any young key forward hes going through a slump due to a combination of our poor delivery and forward connection as as well his limited game time and using him as a 2nd ruck.

My belief in JVR is that he needs to be left in the senior team. alongside Jefferson for the rest of the year so they continue to gain the experience and forward synergy required as a partnership.

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

See this is where I know you're not watching Caddy.

You said he didn't have the contested marking trait of Curnow at similar age which I then provided evidence that shows otherwise that he actually did.

You're now saying its a physicality thing that he has over Caddy, which again shows that one Caddys biggest strengths is his physicality and ability to impose on games with his size. Something a lot of recruiters made note of in his draft year.

And the the last part about GWS taking Windsor with their first pick? That's factually incorrect mate and you're making things up.

Go to 0:46 of this video and the answer will be provided for you.

The reference to GWS taking Windsor is based on this - https://www.afl.com.au/news/1064937/cal-twomeys-2023-phantom-draft-top-30-late-picks-club-whispers

It was noted in various instances by Cal that they were interested in Windsor and I’m almost certain that he referenced us taking Windsor at 7 (knowing of GWS’s interest in him at 8) on draft night or one of his media platforms

And I can assure you I’ve see plenty of Essendon games this year pal - more than I’d care to admit! I like Caddy and think he’ll be a good player but based on what I’ve seen I don’t think he’s shown as much as Curnow did

If he wins the Coleman in five or six years happy for you to come back and quote me - not that you need much encouragement to try and prove people wrong Dazz!

Edited June 20Jun 20 by demoncat

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

These are the numbers below. I agree its aren't linear but its a roughly a good guide. I still have the up most faith in JVR that he can be our number one key forward in years to come. Like any young key forward hes going through a slump due to a combination of our poor delivery and forward connection as as well his limited game time and using him as a 2nd ruck.

My belief in JVR is that he needs to be left in the senior team. alongside Jefferson for the rest of the year so they continue to gain the experience and forward synergy required as a partnership.

100% agree mate, both JVR and Jeffo need to play out the rest of the year.

What those numbers tell me is JVR doesn't get mobile enough and on the end of lead up possessions, but is an elite finisher when he gets it.

That may be partly because of how we've asked him to play, but I don't think he has natural forward craft unlike Jeffo who absolutely has it, but doesn't quite have the body yet.

6 minutes ago, demoncat said:

The reference to GWS taking Windsor is based on this - https://www.afl.com.au/news/1064937/cal-twomeys-2023-phantom-draft-top-30-late-picks-club-whispers

It was noted in various instances by Cal that they were interested in Windsor and I’m almost certain that he referenced us taking Windsor at 7 (knowing of GWS’s interest in him at 8) on draft night or one of his media platforms

And I can assure you I’ve see plenty of Essendon games this year pal - more than I’d care to admit! I like Caddy and think he’ll be a good player but based on what I’ve seen I don’t think he’s shown as much as Curnow did

If he wins the Coleman in five or six years happy for you to come back and quote me - not that you need much encouragement to try and prove people wrong Dazz!

I think I'll take the actual recruiter on face value that openly admits what player they're planning on recruiting 24 hours prior, which has zero mention of Windsor..

20 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

If you look at JVRs numbers against someone like Curnow at the same age they are also very similar from memory.

These things aren't linear anyway. Last year some media pundits ranked Windsor in the top 3 from the draft, this year he's struggled a bit but probably due to the interrupted pre season.

I think that draft will be extremely strong, as will last years also.

The one that is probably the most worrying is Kolt, but again he also had a highly interrupted pre season.

I posted that several players have poor second seasons and that Caleb could be another and Kolt could be another too.

Very confident about Caleb being a very good player and hopeful that Kolt will be one too.

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You can build a premiership team around a gun CHF or gun CHB.

I'm not downplaying Windsor's talent but you can pluck a wingman from anywhere that can give you 25 plus possessions off a wing.

It's the rare hybrid forwards like Caddy that are completely hard to find and we've learnt that the hard way. I find it strange you think a wingman is a better fit for our list then the gun up and coming key forward that is literally what our list is crying out for.

Caddy has all the traits to be a Charlie Curnow type forward imo.

I think Windsor will be a solid player, but his disposal by foot is pretty poor and this is something im confident he can't work on. Right now, he is rated as below average for effective kicks.

Insane take. We literally drafted him for his good kicking skill and run

1 hour ago, Bowserpower said:

Insane take. We literally drafted him for his good kicking skill and run

He displays run.

His kicking is poor. This isn't hard to see.

Right now, its on par with Jayden Hunt who was horrible by foot. Hopefully Windsor can I.prove on that.

Windsor has far greater scope than Jayden Hunt, he’s much better in traffic and aerially

29 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He displays run.

His kicking is poor. This isn't hard to see.

Right now, its on par with Jayden Hunt who was horrible by foot. Hopefully Windsor can I.prove on that.

He's just having the 2nd season blues coming off an interrupted preseason..and also adapting to a different role.

2 hours ago, Bowserpower said:

Insane take. We literally drafted him for his good kicking skill and run

To be fair, there were knocks on his kicking and kicking consistency in his draft year. What DD has said is very fair, and honestly his disposal this year has been fairly poor, IMO.

“Another facet of Windsor's game he has shown improvement in is his kicking. He often gets good length and is capable of slotting impressive goals on the run, but does a lot of work at speed and that can impact his efficiency in the short-range. When more measured, he is capable of sharp passes which do damage.”

For reference, last year his disposal efficiency was 65.8% which is below average (57.6% by foot), and this year is only a slight marginal improvement 68.2% which continues to be below average (61.7% by foot).

I’ll also add, I think there is a component of sunken cost bias with Windsor on this site, pursuant to where he went in the draft. If he was taken at Pick 40 (for example), I think far more people would be asking more questions of him, where his role is in the side, and about his continual selection despite his shortcomings. Personally, he may come on and develop further; I’m just not sure if his strengths will be enough to outweigh his poor disposal and execution.

Aussie Rules Rookie Me Central

Caleb Windsor Draft Profile

Eastern Ranges wingman Caleb Windsor is a speedy outside runner who has steadily climbed draft boards this year.

Edited June 20Jun 20 by BLWNBA

Windsor is a special talent with his mixture of explosiveness and goal sense. He will be one of our top few players in a couple of years.

I pity the output based pundits who can't see his elite traits and ceiling. Sad!

10 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Expecting to see a better Windsor after the break. He’s had some good games against good opposition this year. Excellent against Hawthorn. Very good fresh against GWS. Very good against Sydney. He’s just hit the wall the last few weeks as the interrupted preseason has impacted him.

I think half back has been important in his development and he’s shown signs of learning how to defend and impact aerial.

The biggest concern has been his kicking and lack of composure with the ball but that’s where a disrupted preseason can play a role. I also think he used to kick in a more natural across his body motion and now he’s quite stiff and too straight which is a common Choc Williams side effect but I might be wrong on that.

8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You can build a premiership team around a gun CHF or gun CHB.

I'm not downplaying Windsor's talent but you can pluck a wingman from anywhere that can give you 25 plus possessions off a wing.

It's the rare hybrid forwards like Caddy that are completely hard to find and we've learnt that the hard way. I find it strange you think a wingman is a better fit for our list then the gun up and coming key forward that is literally what our list is crying out for.

Caddy has all the traits to be a Charlie Curnow type forward imo.

I think Windsor will be a solid player, but his disposal by foot is pretty poor and this is something im confident he can't work on. Right now, he is rated as below average for effective kicks.

Caleb was a great kick 2024

Another preseason, maybe Choco changing roles or moving on, and a move back to a wing should see him back at his best. Hopefully the HBF experiment was for “learnings”!

I think Windsor has the potential to be a very good midfielder, more than a winger. It will take time for him to build the physicality and the defensive efforts though. We also had a clear need to draft a player with elite speed in '22.

I don't think his kicking is that bad, but he struggles to hit the 20-30 metre kicks that players like Salem/Bowey excel at. Playing out of the backline has exposed this.

Regardless, quality key position players are more valuable and harder to find compared to mids. We would love to have Caddy or Morris but we committed to JVR/Jeffo. Trading up to get Kolt was probably a bigger error. I think Kolt will be a serviceable player, but trading 14 and 27 for 13 is a blunder in hindsight knowing Morris went a few picks later at 31.

6 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

I think Windsor has the potential to be a very good midfielder, more than a winger. It will take time for him to build the physicality and the defensive efforts though. We also had a clear need to draft a player with elite speed in '22.

I don't think his kicking is that bad, but he struggles to hit the 20-30 metre kicks that players like Salem/Bowey excel at. Playing out of the backline has exposed this.

Regardless, quality key position players are more valuable and harder to find compared to mids. We would love to have Caddy or Morris but we committed to JVR/Jeffo. Trading up to get Kolt was probably a bigger error. I think Kolt will be a serviceable player, but trading 14 and 27 for 13 is a blunder in hindsight knowing Morris went a few picks later at 31.

I like Kolt a lot and think he could be a great mid/fwd type long term but this is looking like a bigger and bigger mistake by the club

Usually I’m all in favour of trading picks to get up the draft order but in hindsight we could have had Caleb Windsor, Darcy Wilson and Logan Morris in one draft 😭

Even if we didn’t want Wilson there’s every chance Kolt would’ve been there a few picks later anyway

Edited June 21Jun 21 by demoncat

8 minutes ago, demoncat said:

I like Kolt a lot and think he could be a great mid/fwd type long term but this is looking like a bigger and bigger mistake by the club

Usually I’m all in favour of trading picks to get up the draft order but in hindsight we could have had Caleb Windsor, Darcy Wilson and Logan Morris in one draft 😭

Even if we didn’t want Wilson there’s every chance Kolt would’ve been there a few picks later anyway

The trading up to get Tholstrup never made sense to me. Not sure what we were going,not even sure the club knew.

I'm not unhappy with Kolt BUT trading up was a bizzare scatter-gun move by the club that makes zero sense. Kolt wasn't highly sorted after by anyone. I'm sure in the inner sanctum people in the know understand that trade was a major duck up.

Our most obvious mistake was not appointing Captain Hindsight as Recruiting Manager.

21 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Our most obvious mistake was not appointing Captain Hindsight as Recruiting Manager.

Captain Hindsignt always makes a decision when it too late but then again Captain Obvious hasn’t stepped up with the goods.

Edited June 21Jun 21 by John Crow Batty

1 hour ago, Demonstone said:

Our most obvious mistake was not appointing Captain Hindsight as Recruiting Manager.

It really isn't a hindsight issue to see there were multiple players in Kolt's pick range that would go on to be decent AFL players

1 hour ago, Mouseymoo said:

The trading up to get Tholstrup never made sense to me. Not sure what we were going,not even sure the club knew.

I'm not unhappy with Kolt BUT trading up was a bizzare scatter-gun move by the club that makes zero sense. Kolt wasn't highly sorted after by anyone. I'm sure in the inner sanctum people in the know understand that trade was a major duck up.

That’s completely 100% incorrect