10 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

I agree with all of this and go further that Max should step aside and free himself from the captaincy burden. It'll extend his career. Give it to Lever or Viney. Out of left field Trac he'd relish it.

Clarrie is an inspirational leader type

3 minutes ago, Diamond Tim said:

Clarrie is an inspirational leader type

May need a translator for his post match interviews 😬

Salem's one of our best when he's up and running

In a team that lacks good kicks, you don't go and trade one of your best

He'll come good assuming he doesn't walk under any ladders during preseason

Somehow O'Sullivan, Watson and Naughton or Lynch.

Forwardline then looks like:

ANB Naughton/Lynch Fritta

Kozzy Petty Watson

With JVR, McAdam, Spargo, Chandler and Trac resting.

Backline looks like:

McVee May (Tomlinson lockdown role) Lever 

Salem O'Sullivan Bowey

With stints from Rivers when not running through the midfield and Howes.

We need more elite talent in the forward half that turn half chances into goals and can convert the contest wins from further up the ground and players like Petty who can draw the ball on the lead.

An elite ball user in the midfield will be nice, but not a priority. We need better forward half players and a defensive tall that will allow Lever and May to play to their strengths. We have the 1st or 2nd best contest team in the league in the midfield, so it's about being able to maximise our midfield dominance inside 50.

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

I’d also be asking the club to have a think about the role Jake Lever plays.

He is an excellent interceptor but in the same manner as our forwards being defenders first, he’s not flash at actually defending.

I don’t think there’s any reason for a captaincy change, I certainly wouldn’t be giving it to Trac. 

 

Or Clarrie 

We should be better kicking for goal.  We were much improved moving the ball inside 50 last night but shouldn’t only pull that out in a sudden death final. We need coaches who really want to sort these 2 things out. 

Goal kicking really gives me the sh&ts.  As players are running in its obvious they will miss.  As soon as Max started running towards the point post I knew he would miss. Kossie kicks well when he gets good momentum like his second shot.  His first was not his routine.  When Tracc walks in you know he will miss as he leans back.  It’s unprofessional that they and the coaches have not done enough quality goal kicking practice to get their routines nailed down so they can produce under pressure like the last 2 weeks.  The fact we have arguably lost at least 3 and maybe 4 of our finals due to poor goal kicking is a blight on Goody. 

To go well in 2024 the club has to stay off   demonland and not buy into supporters excuses about injuries being why we lost. We had all our superstars. WCE got it done without 3 injured All Australians (6xAA between them) in 2018. If the club accepts excuses like injuries then we won’t address the issues in our control.  There needs to be a serious effort to address our goal kicking and our attacking game plan. Our defensive game is elite. 

5 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

We should be better kicking for goal.  We were much improved moving the ball inside 50 last night but shouldn’t only pull that out in a sudden death final. We need coaches who really want to sort these 2 things out. 

Goal kicking really gives me the sh&ts.  As players are running in its obvious they will miss.  As soon as Max started running towards the point post I knew he would miss. Kossie kicks well when he gets good momentum like his second shot.  His first was not his routine.  When Tracc walks in you know he will miss as he leans back.  It’s unprofessional that they and the coaches have not done enough quality goal kicking practice to get their routines nailed down so they can produce under pressure like the last 2 weeks.  The fact we have arguably lost at least 3 and maybe 4 of our finals due to poor goal kicking is a blight on Goody. 

To go well in 2024 the club has to stay off   demonland and not buy into supporters excuses about injuries being why we lost. We had all our superstars. WCE got it done without 3 injured All Australians (6xAA between them) in 2018. If the club accepts excuses like injuries then we won’t address the issues in our control.  There needs to be a serious effort to address our goal kicking and our attacking game plan. Our defensive game is elite. 

Wasn’t Choco supposed to be the greatest goal kicking coach of the millenia?? I mean he’s even got his patented red stripe goal kicking ball !! What the heck ???

10 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Somehow O'Sullivan, Watson and Naughton or Lynch.

Forwardline then looks like:

ANB Naughton/Lynch Fritta

Kozzy Petty Watson

With JVR, McAdam, Spargo, Chandler and Trac resting.

Backline looks like:

McVee May (Tomlinson lockdown role) Lever 

Salem O'Sullivan Bowey

With stints from Rivers when not running through the midfield and Howes.

We need more elite talent in the forward half that turn half chances into goals and can convert the contest wins from further up the ground and players like Petty who can draw the ball on the lead.

An elite ball user in the midfield will be nice, but not a priority. We need better forward half players and a defensive tall that will allow Lever and May to play to their strengths. We have the 1st or 2nd best contest team in the league in the midfield, so it's about being able to maximise our midfield dominance inside 50.

Nailed it! The hunt for red October begins in earnest - beg, borrow or steal that elite user!!!!

5 hours ago, mo64 said:

Where do you start? Even if we won last night, it would have been painting over the cracks. Aside from our top end talent and foot soldiers, we have no obvious depth.

At the start of the year we traded for Grundy, who can't take a contested mark, so it was pretty obvious our gameplan to bomb into the forward line would continue. Took us half a season to work it out, but then lose Petty and Melksham. IMO, our season was done once those 2 went down.

Tim Lamb and Jason Taylor need to be held accountable. Why are we bringing in mature aged players like Dunstan and Schache when we have no intention of playing them, even when a like for like gets injured. And we need to do a better job of extending contracts for fringe players like T Mac and Spargo. They become list cloggers.

Aside from McAdam, go to the draft and get the best kids.

And pray that JVR and Petty stay fit all next year.

Agree with some of the statements, BUT

• Melsham (Damn) is on his way out account age, BUT could make a great Forward Coach
• TMac (one of my favourites) unfortunately is a bit "banged up" account of his role as a team player.
• Brown , I think we saw the best of him in 2021
• Lets give some credit to Spargo (his efforts, particularly in the 3rd Q proved he is more than a list clogger) were OUTSTANDING. It is players like he and ANB who give everything for the team and bring a lot to the table. Imagine if Kossie had their workrate. . 
• Rivers is only half way developed (Could be anything !!) Build his tank and he could be a devastating HBF or Wingman.
• JVR & McVee are still development players (1st year) Bowey is filling Salems role. But maybe trying to outmark Pettonet might be a stretch too far. Chandler has developed this year because he has been given a better run at it
• Sparrow is probably (apart from the immediate above)  our most improved player this year. With confidence he could take some of the heavy work off Viney
• Gus....Some posters rubbish him , but he is the link person  every top side needs:  Grand Final , Clarrie's absence etc show just how valuable he is to our structure (allows Tracc to play forward.)
• Max is a generational player, but needs an apprentice !!
• Stephen May (see above) But Petty cannot be at both ends of the ground !!
• Turner, Woewodin, Laurie plus a few others will present themselves next year because they have had a taste (albeit small of what is required. Plus there are few kids @ Casey  knocking at the door.
• Be careful about thinking that a magic recruit is going to change the whole place around . We have enough stars, just need to lift the quality of the foot soldiers.
• Have not mentioned Tracc or Oliver because they are the  fifth gear we need ( ala Cripps & Walsh)
• Let us not throw the baby out with the bathwater by incessant criticism of "fringe" players

12 hours ago, 58er said:

Why would Clarry go ? He is just as big a player in this mess as every one. 

Clarrie epitomises everything that is both  good and bad about the "Melbourne way"

6 hours ago, YearOfTheDees said:

I'm going to get shouted down here but I believe Max needs to step down as captain and hand it over the Lever. 

Why? 

Need some luck with injury. Melks and Petty pre finals - huge bad luck. Brayshaw flattened early in 1st final likely huge bearing on result of the final.

We need another tall forward - Caddy would be great.

Another tall back would be good - O'Sullivan?

Another top mid ball getter - Brown, Woey  can develop?, A hit with one of our 20's 2023 picks.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Why? 

He's 32 and deserves to just enjoy his footy. But it would have to be his decision.

Mabier Chol would have been handy last night as a goal kicking relief ruckman. 

Has 4.4 to 3 quarter time in today’s VFL prelim and is apparently on the market.

Edited September 16, 20231 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

Jack darling? Would probably cost a 4th rounder. Will fill a gap for a couple of years to let jvr/jefferson/petty develop and he can certainly take a mark and kick a goal...

3 hours ago, BDA said:

4. Burn down the MCG

Only if Collingwood are playing Geelong at the time. 

I’m curious- can those who are concerned about potentially losing JJ please inform me about what we would lose. I don’t see speed, good overhead mark, penetrating kicks, or a good defensive forward - what am I missing?

9 hours ago, YearOfTheDees said:

I'm going to get shouted down here but I believe Max needs to step down as captain and hand it over the Lever. 

I asked this question in the post game. 

 

48 minutes ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

I’m curious- can those who are concerned about potentially losing JJ please inform me about what we would lose. I don’t see speed, good overhead mark, penetrating kicks, or a good defensive forward - what am I missing?

I've been a relative fan. Young, hard running blue collar mid. Solid citizen as well. But now I think we can do better. Apart from his first game back this year he's been bog ordinary and we have to find someone better. Someone that is more attacking and can make more impact. 

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Mabier Chol would have been handy last night as a goal kicking relief ruckman. 

Has 4.4 to 3 quarter time in today’s VFL prelim and is apparently on the market.

We should absolutely enquire about Chol. He kicked 44 goals last year and is a solid backup ruck. Ideal role player we need.

1 hour ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

I’m curious- can those who are concerned about potentially losing JJ please inform me about what we would lose. I don’t see speed, good overhead mark, penetrating kicks, or a good defensive forward - what am I missing?

He was very ordinary last night. No hurt factor. 
He will never be a first choice mid while we have Clarry Trac Viney and Sparrow around. 
 

Sparrow was absolutely sensational btw. I think he was our best mid this finals series. 

6 hours ago, Monbon said:

All of these post mortem/coach/tactic blaming posts miss out on the biggest factor around, and it ain't Max. I'm talking about the sheer perversity of the element called LUCK. Luck is involved in the Injury list. Just examine the players who luck slaughtered at crucial stages this year:

Gawn

Oliver

Melksham- just when we needed him.

Fritsch

Brayshaw   -  the  unluck in his case to be brutally assaulted by Maynard

Salem early season blues, struggled to get back to his best...

McDonald - again.

B.Brown

Petty

Smith early in the season

Okay, the arrow of injury slaughters many sides but the bottom line in the Demons case is that despite all these setbacks - note well, most afflicted were the forwards - we finished Top 4, 2nd year in a row.

Therefore, the Doomsday Desperadoes who dwell on woe to woe, who want every coach replaced most of the time, should remember that in the end, on that last game in September, there can only be one winner. To cast the rest to hell for 'Failure' is my idea of a Utopian Hell. 

Sure, our list needs to be strengthened. We seem to have a surfeit of more than capable defenders - some fine Casey backline regulars must be cursing their lack of opportunity - and, it has to be said, we have made some recruiting blunders on the one hand - Grundy comes to mind - but here also, some of the recruiting tosses of the coin - Ben Brown comes to mind - seemed to be well-fated and ended in despair for both parties, but all in all, the recruiting team have handed us some genuinely talented players and their success ration is way in its favor - Hibberd, Melksham, May, Lever, Langdon, Hunter from other clubs come to mind - and look at the backline talent they've assembled. 

So, stay positive, ladies and gents, and pray to the God who dispenses injury woes.

It must also be said that it is obvious we are not in the good books of the AFL Masters, witness the MRI farces which they present as 'justice' for a start. And, also, keep in mind, the factor the luck of the draw in umpiring decisions has made on some of our games. I cannot bear to watch the replay of yesterday's match, but I have noted the howls of 'WE was robbed' from some of you.

Wid a little bit of luck, I am 173 years old now, toodle pip, see you all next year.

 

This club needs to rapidly, and forcefully, indicate to the afl how we won’t be going to Geelong for the next 20 years and now the Maynard Potemkin show trial was wholly disgraceful

 

why are we so meek and keen to be the good corporate citizen. Collingwood doesn’t do this. Why should we

Blaming luck is an easy way out. 2 absolutely wrong ARCs against Carlton , continually shoddy umpiring. And the games we lost with the disgusting sub standard kicking - that’s not luck

 

I’ll give you the injuries though 

where’s the depth cover ?

6 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Retire: Hibbo, BBB, McDonald

Delist: Dunstan, D Smith, ?K Turner

Trade: Grundy, JJ (FA), Harmes, Tomlinson

9 or 10 out.

Trade for:

1 x ruck (replacing Grundy)
1 x forward/ruck (T Mc)
1 x quality tall or barring that a swing man tall (BBB)
1 x McAdam
1 x midfield depth 

Take 4-5 picks in the drafts including at least 2 quality picks (ie. 1/20, 6/7, 6/15/20)

I had all nine players gone also with a Salem trade my tenth

2 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

This club needs to rapidly, and forcefully, indicate to the afl how we won’t be going to Geelong for the next 20 years and now the Maynard Potemkin show trial was wholly disgraceful

 

why are we so meek and keen to be the good corporate citizen. Collingwood doesn’t do this. Why should we

Blaming luck is an easy way out. 2 absolutely wrong ARCs against Carlton , continually shoddy umpiring. And the games we lost with the disgusting sub standard kicking - that’s not luck

 

I’ll give you the injuries though 

where’s the depth cover ?

AS I wrote, yes, we are the pawns of the AFL: witness Pickett getting a week for a bump to  Cripps which connected with his shoulder, then, yes, I know, Cripps turned, Pickett's shoulder continued  and poor Cripps's nose was affected. It was called once a Footy Action...

As far as Depth Cover and I alluded to this - we have that aplenty back of centre, but it's hard when the depth cover for the loss of McDonald, Fritsch, Melksham, JRV, Petty, Brown, and earlier in the year, Smith, was Schache...

And I totally agree about the Geelong Bull...t.

 

4 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I had all nine players gone also with a Salem trade my tenth

I'd keep Tomlinson...