On 08/07/2023 at 23:48, Neil Crompton said:

Sorry, but I didn’t realise you actually had to have been to a game before you are allowed to offer an opinion on our teams performance.

Neil, I just wrote a post about this. 

I was asking because the early posts in the post game thread are so negative and critical of players. I wanted the negative posters to know that the Saints brought a lot of effort, and we matched it and beat them. I think watching on the TV it’s sometimes difficult to see that effort and intensity, and so I asked the question. Interestingly nobody responded to the question except to take offence that it was even asked. I was asking because I wanted to have a dialogue about what I saw at the ground (which I really liked). I realise now the question wasn’t asked correctly if I was intending to actually get into a realistic conversation.

That was a tough game, and I thought we were well drilled, and worked hard for each other. 👍

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:53, Abyssal said:

Quote all the stats you like, 

Grundy was poor, Gawn was a long way from his best, Pickett was a passenger and MFC were unimpressive winning against a side who lost 3 players to injury early in the game.

If We lost in the same circumstances as StKilda, everyone on this Forum would be bemoaning how Unlucky we were.

GCDee’s original post was completely reasonable and certainly NOT Dreadful.

PS. Do you get “paid by the word” ?

 

So… lots of upside?

Obviously Gawn is not doing well at the moment.  But equally obvious is that the umpires don't like him. 

Must be because he has developed this cunning mechanism for lifting his jumper up his body by a battery powered machine to milk a free kick in boundary throw-ins. Or at least the umpires must think so, because they don't pay him a free when his jumper mysteriously rises up.

(Having said that I reckon most jumper tugs have little effect on the player, but the rule seems to be if a tug is seen, a free must be paid.)

  On 08/07/2023 at 13:16, WalkingCivilWar said:

Well I had an extra reason to celebrate tonight… Reece Conca said I can have his job!

🥳😝🙃😁

 

Haha they’d never get you off the field!

I thought Max was good, especially in the first half. He doesn’t have to be the Max of 2016-2022 anymore. God knows he’s given all and then some for this club.

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:33, A F said:

Because it laid blame at the feet of Grundy and Gawn. I've already talked about Grundy's game, our leading clearance winner, with strong score involvements. Grundy had 1 less clearance than Marshall who was arguably St Kilda's best, and Grundy played 67% TOG versus Marshall's 95%. Our rucks at the very least drew even with Marshall...

Marshall's stats were 8 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 3 contested marks, 299 metres gained, 30 disposals, 7 tackles, 15 hit outs.

Grundy and Gawn had 11 clearances, 6 inside 50s, 3 contested marks, 364m gained, 29 disposals, 6 tackles, 38 hit outs. 

Hard to mount an argument that Marshall 'dominated' them, but that's what you get when your 'analysis' is based on blind emotion.

Then the post claimed our second best pressure player playing close to 90% TOG should go to Casey.

That's not a good post, but I'm sure you'll disagree with absolutely nothing to back it up with except you're a bit annoyed and neggy.

You’ve potted Abyssal twice for an opinion.

So what you’re saying is Gawn and Grundy need to ‘equal’ the output of the other ruckman?

They need to impact around the ground when not in the ruck, it’s an added bonus which they aren’t doing.

Grundy was fumbly going for marks, mistiming his jump.

As for Kozzie, needs a spell at Casey. If you are happy with his output, great.

Me? He’s getting a game based on ‘game changer’. He hasn’t changed a game in months. He was lazy around the contest, looks disinterested and not confident.

Go back, get some touches.

Look how confident May looked last night. Mindset can do wonders.

Got the win, got the 4 points and hopefully a kickstart for the run to finals. I was wrong Re Melksham, hopefully he can go 2018 consistency with Fritta out. Still think we need two talls as well in the forward line and JvR seems the obvious choice. Not sure who goes out though. Neither Max nor Grundy seem forward answers, just concentrate on rucking and intercepting.

Backline humming beautifully, don’t fiddle with it moving players forward like some suggesting. Kossie has to break out of his malaise soon doesn’t he? Well done Taj on debut, did some ok things and was exciting to see a Woey again.

I just love how trac stepped up and kicked those goals. He missed his shots last week & could have shied away but he took it upon himself to kick them and he did.

Lets hope that now continues and that's how he kicks for the rest of the season 

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:47, WheeloRatings said:

I have just posted the Stats Files update - we lost the ground ball gets by 8. Melbourne's season average differential is +3.6 (ranked 3rd) but St Kilda's is +4.1 (ranked 1st).

 

There we go. The eye test is not great.

We had a screen right in front of us at the game and at one stage late in the first half, the top 6 ground ball get players were St Kilda players, so maybe we levelled that up or we weren't as bad in that area as I felt.

Anyway, thanks Wheelo.

Saints were their own worst enemy last night. If they had shown a fraction of dare they could have opened us up. Instead every time they took a mark they stopped and allowed us to set up down back which is a big no no against the Dees. 

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:53, Abyssal said:

Quote all the stats you like, 

Grundy was poor, Gawn was a long way from his best, Pickett was a passenger and MFC were unimpressive winning against a side who lost 3 players to injury early in the game.

If We lost in the same circumstances as StKilda, everyone on this Forum would be bemoaning how Unlucky we were.

GCDee’s original post was completely reasonable and certainly NOT Dreadful.

PS. Do you get “paid by the word” ?

 

Grundy was not poor. 7 clearances and his follow up work at ground level for a ruckman is elite.

But I'll leave it there. Your mind is made up.

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:38, praha said:

I reckon there was 2k melbourne supporters there. It was a shocking turnout.

I was on there and I was surrounded by Saints fans. It was a Saints home game. The attendance was just over 30,000, mostly disappointed Saints fans 

  On 09/07/2023 at 00:17, Singa said:

Saints were their own worst enemy last night. If they had shown a fraction of dare they could have opened us up. Instead every time they took a mark they stopped and allowed us to set up down back which is a big no no against the Dees. 

To be fair I think they tried to be daring early on and Steven May gobbled each one of them up.

Maysy was brilliant last night.

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:05, Cheap Seats said:

Is there a chance we have seen the best of Max?

God I hope not. He does look a bit flat at the moment. He doesn't scream confidence. 

  On 09/07/2023 at 00:14, Roy Boy said:

You’ve potted Abyssal twice for an opinion.

So what you’re saying is Gawn and Grundy need to ‘equal’ the output of the other ruckman?

They need to impact around the ground when not in the ruck, it’s an added bonus which they aren’t doing.

Grundy was fumbly going for marks, mistiming his jump.

As for Kozzie, needs a spell at Casey. If you are happy with his output, great.

Me? He’s getting a game based on ‘game changer’. He hasn’t changed a game in months. He was lazy around the contest, looks disinterested and not confident.

Go back, get some touches.

Look how confident May looked last night. Mindset can do wonders.

May didn't have an opponent. Yeah, it's all mindset when your dangerous opponent goes down in the first minute of the game. FMD.

I'd like more offence out of Kozzy, no doubt, but his defensive game is strong. 

And I didn't pot Abysmal. He asked me why an earlier post from someone was terrible. I told him.

As for Gawn and Grundy, where did I say they need to equal the output of another ruckman? The claim I was disputing was Marshall dominated Gawn and Grundy. Factually incorrect.. 

  On 09/07/2023 at 00:20, A F said:

Grundy was not poor. 7 clearances and his follow up work at ground level for a ruckman is elite.

But I'll leave it there. Your mind is made up.

I think we are all waiting for the old Filth ruckman to show up. So far he has been good but not yet great.

  On 09/07/2023 at 00:17, A F said:

There we go. The eye test is not great.

We had a screen right in front of us at the game and at one stage late in the first half, the top 6 ground ball get players were St Kilda players, so maybe we levelled that up or we weren't as bad in that area as I felt.

Anyway, thanks Wheelo.

St Kilda still finished with the top 5 players in ground ball gets, but Melbourne had a better spread with 15 players with 4+ compared to 12 St Kilda players.

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:36, The heart beats true said:

I have a question…

How many of you criticising that game went to the ground?

Would have loved to have been there, but I spent the night looking after my elderly mum after having a fall. 

I see this “point” being made often after games. It’s a thoughtless and entitled line of supposed-reasoning that needs to die in a ditch. 

Your criticisms aren’t more valid because you were fortunate enough to go to the game. Nor are you better-placed to assess the team’s performance, unless you watched the broadcast as well. 

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:34, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

@Superunknown did you get on the saints @ $2.50 because of our importants outs and all.

Not up and about tonight that we won?

 

 

 

very happy to win! 👍

Steven May was really great, marking everything that came his way.  That hasn't been his problem this year, he's been very shaky on the ground ball.

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:51, fr_ap said:

Look I agree with all that and truthfully we all know it doesn't look too likely....but you've got to enjoy the wins when they come. It's too long a year and too much is down to luck...

Very tough to follow if all you can enjoy is a flag 

If you're not winning flags what's the point? This isn't an up and coming team where you can try to find the positives, we are smack bang in the middle of the premiership window and we are playing like also rans. Good to get the win of course but the way we're playing still worries me.

Losses to Cats and GWS let a lot of air out of the tyres after the great win against the Pies, they'll need to do more than just get past an undermanned Saints side to win back that trust, starting with the Lions on Friday.

  On 08/07/2023 at 13:05, BrisbaneDemon said:

I have a question for someone a whole lot smarter then me:

1) why do we always do these two things kicking out, we either bomb to max to the left of the field straight away, or kick it 90 degrees left to the boundary, then bomb it to max?  It infuriates me that we don’t have a plan be here…. Especially with Max so badly out of form at the moment.

2) Centre clearance taps, apart from the 5 magical mins In the 2021 grand final, why don’t we give out a-grade midfield first use of the ball, it just feels like our Ricks tap straight to the opposition of to the ground and our keys have to fight for it.

3) forward movement? Blocks, swinging the wings, separation between forwards? 

4) Gawn / Grundy the forward experiment has to be over, they just need to rotate off the bench and stay the hell out of the forward line, I would love to see Max behind the ball like years gone by, we looked invincible when he would float in from The side in the defensive 50.

We look like a bottom 8 team after the bye….

5) when we get possession along the boundary side of the centre square we always look to handball outside and play against the boundary instead of switching inside and opening up the ground for our forward line. It's boring football and does not play to our strengths, making it difficult to score.

  On 09/07/2023 at 00:39, Dr. Gonzo said:

If you're not winning flags what's the point? This isn't an up and coming team where you can try to find the positives, we are smack bang in the middle of the premiership window and we are playing like also rans. Good to get the win of course but the way we're playing still worries me.

Losses to Cats and GWS let a lot of air out of the tyres after the great win against the Pies, they'll need to do more than just get past an undermanned Saints side to win back that trust, starting with the Lions on Friday.

This.

The acceptance of mediocrity by many here is alarming.

Our list is as good as it will be for at least 20 years, right now we are underperforming.

We need more flags to capitalise on this generational talent.

  On 09/07/2023 at 00:01, The heart beats true said:

Neil, I just wrote a post about this. 

I was asking because the early posts in the post game thread are so negative and critical of players. I wanted the negative posters to know that the Saints brought a lot of effort, and we matched it and beat them. I think watching on the TV it’s sometimes difficult to see that effort and intensity, and so I asked the question. Interestingly nobody responded to the question except to take offence that it was even asked. I was asking because I wanted to have a dialogue about what I saw at the ground (which I really liked). I realise now the question wasn’t asked correctly if I was intending to actually get into a realistic conversation.

That was a tough game, and I thought we were well drilled, and worked hard for each other. 👍

Thanks THBT, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. And you will notice that the only derogatory comment I’ve made on this post is about that deranged Demon Army lady thinking she’ll take over Reece’s job.

  On 08/07/2023 at 13:22, dees189227 said:

So honestly what do we do about Max. He is a shadow of his former self. I know each week he cops treatment from the opposition but he doesn't look like our captain, he isn't marking like he used to and his kicking is off. 

I love Maxy but gee he needs to lead this team properly 

He needs to just play his role instead of doing too much. Stop grabbing it out of the centre bounce ruck, he always gets caught or kick smothered because he's too slow getting it to boot. Either punch it forward out of the ruck or handball to one of our mids to clear it. Stop grabbing it out of the ruck in the forward line, you're not Tom Hawkins - even if he does get his boot to it it's never going through for a goal. Stop being the last link up man to kick inside 50, hand it off to one of our runners to make that pass (Salem, Bowey, McVee, Spargo etc).

Just play your role Max, I feel like he's trying to do too much to "lead" the team but it's counter productive. If he just played his role it would be far more effective.