PREGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[deejammin' 2,370]

11 hours ago, binman said:

I agree with all of those points.

But I support a red card, in very clearly defined scenarios (which by their nature are relatively rare), when it results in the opposition losing a player.

That hit happened near the end of the second quarter. The kid was playing well. And then knocked out, and can't come back on. Dog act.

They lost hurn and West and with hewiit off, were down to two on the bench for a big chunk of that game. 

Losing hewiit was a huge disadvantage for the Eagles. Unlikely to have been a difference between winning and losing, but there's plenty of examples where it has.

And I'm persuaded by the argument, what if that happened 5 minutes in to a grand final - let's say de Goey knocks tracc out cold. 

Play on?

Couldn’t this be manipulated though? If the red card is reliant on the player being out for the game medical teams might keep a player off if they know it would take an opposition star out of the game? If Hewitt had been fine but the WC medical staff knew DeGoey comes out of the game if they err on the side of caution wouldn’t this be a worry? DeGoey shouldn’t have done it to begin with but the AFL is already so bad at the MRO with the benefit of time and multiple angles, I shudder to think what mistakes could be made in the moment, especially if results are reliant on team’s own parochial medical staff being impartial.

[Sydee 4,412]

7 hours ago, Nudge said:

Yup, as I mentioned 2-3wks back BBB 💯 in after bye has always been plan! When is dependant on swelling of knee being right.. Melksham would’ve come in ahead of Smith but now Smith has the spot so he’ll keep it, he helped Fritta immensely, added some speed for pressure, contested at height with leaps & offers versatility if needed so wouldn’t shock me if Tommo goes and Smith plays fwd & heads back if Lever is needed to be freed up! But BBB isn’t done with —- played great footy early this year & finishes well. Right now I’d back Chandler to go for BBB round 13-15ish.

He shouldn't be given a promotion until he can deliver some sort of pressure on opposition backs intercept marking and chasing/tackling.

There is no room at AFL level for players that don't or simply can't do the team things. 

If you watch the Casey game from this week you would love to be a defender running off our key forwards - virtually zero pressure from BBB and Jefferson who I can excuse to some extent given he is in year one and very raw

[Sydee 4,412]

10 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Neither in terms of his physical development nor in his mental approach to physical contests.

Agree JVR is by no means a finished product and is still evolving but I don't see him being physically intimidated the way Watts was in his first game. JVR can handle himself just fine in the physicality stakes. 

[Brownie 5,980]

20 hours ago, old dee said:

Having watched yesterdays pies game I am confident we can beat them next week. We have the personal but we have to kick better than Friday night. If our delivery and kicking for goal does not improve we lose. It is that simple IMO. 

Gee, I agree with you @old dee.

I think our delivery into the forward line, how we set up, lead and work together as a forward line is our biggest thing to fix if we're going to have a shot at a flag this year.

This article in the roar sums it up for me.....

Let’s start with the bigger picture: the Dees had 20 more inside 50s (59-39), won the clearances by nine (38-29) and dominated contested possessions by 26 (148-122). They also had 40 forward half intercepts – the most by any team this year – to 16, and 58 disposals inside 50 to 29.

This is the stat line of a 100-point win – 70 if you kick badly for goal. For it to only be enough for a 17-point win over everyone’s favourite whipping team is an utter horror show.

For me, it's not so much about personnel, it's delivery and lowering our eyes to the right option. We need to get this right to beat the good teams like the pies. The pressure will come which always affects decision making and delivery too. Getting a good conversion rate from our inside 50s is vital to us winning another flag.

I know there's those who point to our healthy percentage as an argument, but watching the games it's obvious at the moment we're pretty dysfunctional up front and not working together like we should 

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/06/02/footy-fix-the-blues-are-rubbish-but-the-dees-were-just-as-bad-and-four-images-perfectly-sum-up-why/

 

[beelzebub 23,348]

5 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Gee, I agree with you @old dee.

I think our delivery into the forward line, how we set up, lead and work together as a forward line is our biggest thing to fix if we're going to have a shot at a flag this year.

This article in the roar sums it up for me.....

Let’s start with the bigger picture: the Dees had 20 more inside 50s (59-39), won the clearances by nine (38-29) and dominated contested possessions by 26 (148-122). They also had 40 forward half intercepts – the most by any team this year – to 16, and 58 disposals inside 50 to 29.

This is the stat line of a 100-point win – 70 if you kick badly for goal. For it to only be enough for a 17-point win over everyone’s favourite whipping team is an utter horror show.

For me, it's not so much about personnel, it's delivery and lowering our eyes to the right option. We need to get this right to beat the good teams like the pies. The pressure will come which always affects decision making and delivery too. Getting a good conversion rate from our inside 50s is vital to us winning another flag.

I know there's those who point to our healthy percentage as an argument, but watching the games it's obvious at the moment we're pretty dysfunctional up front and not working together like we should 

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/06/02/footy-fix-the-blues-are-rubbish-but-the-dees-were-just-as-bad-and-four-images-perfectly-sum-up-why/

 

It's an accurate assessment. 

Any bunch of idiots with half a brain would realise this and correct it.

Luckily for us we have sunch a bunch of idiots at Melbourne..    so all will be right ..🤔🤔🤷🤷

[Jaded No More 68,903]

I’m excited to see Clarry dominate. He’d be so mad he missed two games when they could have easily cut off his leg and he would have been fine 😂

[jnrmac 20,058]

13 hours ago, SPC said:

Agree, but bloke flops when he feels body pressure and umpires can’t blow whistles quick enough. 

True but its no coincidence he popped up last year when Petty when down, May was missing, Gawn injured his foot and Turner went off concussed.

Our defence was hugely compromised.

[beelzebub 23,348]

33 minutes ago, Sydee said:

He shouldn't be given a promotion until he can deliver some sort of pressure on opposition backs intercept marking and chasing/tackling.

There is no room at AFL level for players that don't or simply can't do the team things. 

If you watch the Casey game from this week you would love to be a defender running off our key forwards - virtually zero pressure from BBB and Jefferson who I can excuse to some extent given he is in year one and very raw

I suspect he's not 100% ...not even 90% of his required fitness. I also suspect this is injury related and is hampering him from fully committing to contests.

I.e he cant play to the level he wants to/ needs to.

He's never struck me as a lazy or unmotivated player.

I'm sensing his career is now crueled.  

[beelzebub 23,348]

Oh..btw....  can we get someone to babysit Daicos.  Harmesy would have been the obvious choice....  alas.

Quiten Daicos and maintain the "Wall"  down back.   We can win. 

Wouldn't hurt for wayward Bailey and cameo Kozzie to buck up and fire either.

Have a great day Brodie ;) Your chance to shine for a team that actually wants you 

[old55 23,547]

8 hours ago, Nudge said:

Yup, as I mentioned 2-3wks back BBB 💯 in after bye has always been plan! When is dependant on swelling of knee being right.. Melksham would’ve come in ahead of Smith but now Smith has the spot so he’ll keep it, he helped Fritta immensely, added some speed for pressure, contested at height with leaps & offers versatility if needed so wouldn’t shock me if Tommo goes and Smith plays fwd & heads back if Lever is needed to be freed up! But BBB isn’t done with —- played great footy early this year & finishes well. Right now I’d back Chandler to go for BBB round 13-15ish.

Strange that he's playing for Casey if it's about knee swelling. Is he playing restricted minutes at Casey?

[SPC 3,549]

34 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

True but its no coincidence he popped up last year when Petty when down, May was missing, Gawn injured his foot and Turner went off concussed.

Our defence was hugely compromised.

Would like someone to test out the durability of his rib cage

[Jaded No More 68,903]

9 minutes ago, old55 said:

Strange that he's playing for Casey if it's about knee swelling. Is he playing restricted minutes at Casey?

Maybe they’re playing him at Casey to see how the knee pulls up to determine how much load he can take? 

[Brownie 5,980]

14 minutes ago, old55 said:

Strange that he's playing for Casey if it's about knee swelling. Is he playing restricted minutes at Casey?

From the games I've seen, he's been playing pretty much full time. So the theory that they're easing him into the second half of the season doesn't seem to ring true for me.

I love the bloke's attitude and the work he does with the aflw players, so maybe his body Just isn't right yet.

Hope he comes good. He's a solid mark when given the space to lead into and a reliable set shot.

JVR could do with another key forward beside him so he's not the sole focus.

[layzie 33,793]

We need to get in the face of that big American. I'm sick of him getting a free run at our guys it's about time we made him a bit uncomfortable. 

[Gorgoroth 12,947]

19 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Smith was playing a decoy role. All he needs to do is keep Moore away from the contest as much as possible to stop him from intercepting the ball. 
Being that he spent many seasons in defense, I would hope he could do that to some degree. 
 

While he didn’t impact the scoreboard, Weitering also didn’t have a dominant game so it was a win. 

Difference is tho Moore reads the play extremely well. He won’t even look at Smith, like May, he will position himself where we will dump it long.

[beelzebub 23,348]

23 minutes ago, layzie said:

We need to get in the face of that big American. I'm sick of him getting a free run at our guys it's about time we made him a bit uncomfortable. 

May i suggest making him VERY uncomfortable  ;) 

[Satan 2,871]

tmac 426

The Demons will miss swingman Tom McDonald for four to six weeks despite successful surgery to remove some floating bone in his ankle.

 

[sue 9,102]

15 hours ago, deefender said:

No doubt the four points count.

But there’s more to be gained by beating Collingwood when they’re at full strength. 
 

 

True, but think how much more there would be to be gained if Oliver, Petracca and May were all out!   I'll take 4 points regardless.

[binman 42,896]

1 hour ago, deejammin' said:

Couldn’t this be manipulated though? If the red card is reliant on the player being out for the game medical teams might keep a player off if they know it would take an opposition star out of the game? If Hewitt had been fine but the WC medical staff knew DeGoey comes out of the game if they err on the side of caution wouldn’t this be a worry? DeGoey shouldn’t have done it to begin with but the AFL is already so bad at the MRO with the benefit of time and multiple angles, I shudder to think what mistakes could be made in the moment, especially if results are reliant on team’s own parochial medical staff being impartial.

Yes, i guess it could be manipulated.

But sacrificing one of your players to force one of theirs off is a massive risk. And the doctors are not going to lie about a players injury status.

Again, it would all come down to getting the rules and framework right.

Which to be honest is probably the best argument against it - the AFL have woeful track record of getting the rules and framework right

 

[binman 42,896]

33 minutes ago, Brownie said:

From the games I've seen, he's been playing pretty much full time. So the theory that they're easing him into the second half of the season doesn't seem to ring true for me.

I love the bloke's attitude and the work he does with the aflw players, so maybe his body Just isn't right yet.

Hope he comes good. He's a solid mark when given the space to lead into and a reliable set shot.

JVR could do with another key forward beside him so he's not the sole focus.

The VFL is a lot lower intensity than the AFL, so not the same impact physically. 

[layzie 33,793]

6 minutes ago, Satan said:

tmac 426

The Demons will miss swingman Tom McDonald for four to six weeks despite successful surgery to remove some floating bone in his ankle.

 

Darn it. 

[jnrmac 20,058]

I am sensing this game is similar to the Melb v Geelong game last year.

Geelong were traumatised by Melbourne in 2021 and set about revamping their game plan to combat Melbourne. Everything about the changes was designed to combat melbourne who Chris Scott thought had changed the game and that Geelong would inevitably play in a finals game.

So they went about putting huge pressure on Gawn when May kicked to the left hand side of the ground. They made Lever accountable and chip kicked their way through our defence. They revealed their plan to have Stanley take the ruck contest and then drop back to support their defence. The had Blix tag Petracca and take the ruck contests in the middle of the ground with Hawkins taking the ruck in the fwd half. They then parked that combination until finals and the rest is history.

Goodwin has set us up for this game. He knows they are the benchmark and they have had the wood on us (although last year's game was more a case of our injuries mid-game costing us big time). 

As visually poor as our game was against Carlton, Our defensive work and stoppage work was first class. It was a whole of team performance and goes a long way to how we are planning to beat the Pies.

The Pies swarm the contest and then run and carry the ball. We won't allow that to happen. they will be put under pressure and will have to kick sideways and backwards in order to maintain possession. But they are not used to having to backtrack and will be out of position everywhere. And if we can get the ball out of the congestion or turn the ball over, they will be way out of position and outnumbered down back.

I think this will be a very tactical game and the Dees will come out on top. We have let Oliver rest up and even rested Hibberd to be cherry ripe. Grundy will be fired up.

I am excited for this one and starting to get very positive about our chances.

 

 

[loges 6,767]

12 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I am sensing this game is similar to the Melb v Geelong game last year.

Geelong were traumatised by Melbourne in 2021 and set about revamping their game plan to combat Melbourne. Everything about the changes was designed to combat melbourne who Chris Scott thought had changed the game and that Geelong would inevitably play in a finals game.

So they went about putting huge pressure on Gawn when May kicked to the left hand side of the ground. They made Lever accountable and chip kicked their way through our defence. They revealed their plan to have Stanley take the ruck contest and then drop back to support their defence. The had Blix tag Petracca and take the ruck contests in the middle of the ground with Hawkins taking the ruck in the fwd half. They then parked that combination until finals and the rest is history.

Goodwin has set us up for this game. He knows they are the benchmark and they have had the wood on us (although last year's game was more a case of our injuries mid-game costing us big time). 

As visually poor as our game was against Carlton, Our defensive work and stoppage work was first class. It was a whole of team performance and goes a long way to how we are planning to beat the Pies.

The Pies swarm the contest and then run and carry the ball. We won't allow that to happen. they will be put under pressure and will have to kick sideways and backwards in order to maintain possession. But they are not used to having to backtrack and will be out of position everywhere. And if we can get the ball out of the congestion or turn the ball over, they will be way out of position and outnumbered down back.

I think this will be a very tactical game and the Dees will come out on top. We have let Oliver rest up and even rested Hibberd to be cherry ripe. Grundy will be fired up.

I am excited for this one and starting to get very positive about our chances.

 

 

You would think Collingwood's style would be very susceptible to turnover if the opposition can apply enough pressure.

[beelzebub 23,348]

3 minutes ago, loges said:

You would think Collingwood's style would be very susceptible to turnover if the opposition can apply enough pressure.

As is ours.....

[Jaded No More 68,903]

West Coast got on top of the Pies doing one thing very very well, dominating clearances. They were +10 for clearances at the end of the game and beat Pies in contested possessions.

If we can be +10 for clearances on KB and win the contested possessions, and USE THE BALL EFFECTIVELY going forward, we will win.