The List

[DemonJack 14 89]

Where is our list really at ? 

Maybe it's not the entire problem. Obviously other factors such game plan, structures, fitness and work rate/effort I think are contributing to where we are at the moment. 

But I think our list really does need some reworking. I know it's a highly rated list on paper, but a lot of players I think have reached their peak and are regressing or have stagnated. Only a handful of players have progressed from last year. 

Key Forwards 

Huge issue for me. Almost every other club has better quality and depth of key forwards than us. Tmac and Brown are almost finished and lack speed ,mobility and presence at ground level. I Can see why Goodwin wants Petty up forward to give us some marking power. JVR looks promising and competes hard. He still needs to keep improving and we can't expect him to kick bags of goals every week. Jefferson needs more time in the gym and a few more pre-seasons. Early in the season he looked promising in the VFL but has dropped off significantly lately. Schache should be given a bit more time to see what he has got at senior level I think but hasn't been smashing the door down at Casey. I would like to see Joel Smith given a go considering his recent VFL form and before he inevitably gets injured again. 

I think it's likely one or both of Tmac or Brown retires at the end of the year. I think we need to target another established  key forward from another club.  ( Riccardi - GWS, Georgiades - Port , Mitch Lewis - Haw ) 

Or we draft another with a first round pick (Archer Reid, Daniel Curtin or Nate Caddy) 

Small/General Forwards 

Fritsch, Chandler, Spargo, Pickett. ANB  is a good group of small to medium forwards. The pressure they apply is usually good. 2nd in the league for tackles inside 50 testament to that. Chandler has really come on this year. I think we could do with some more speed and more skill in this area however. some attacking flair ( Liam Henry - Frem, Kai Lohman -Bris , Jade Gresham - Stk) 

Maybe draft Nick Watson if he is available 

Mids  

I think our midfield really lacks some pace and skill. We have some elite ball winners but we still drop off in quality quickly when one of the big 3 aren't there compared to other sides. Really need Sparrow and Jordan to take the next step. perhaps Rivers becomes that outside/inside midfielder we lack. Our connection with our rucks seem off more often than not and even though clearances aren't every thing we need to still break even if we want to play forward half game. We need to develop some young elite mids in the next few years likely from high draft picks. Our wings look on paper close to the best in the league but Hunter lacks pace and  Langdon isn't having the same impact. I think we need some more height and marking power from our wings. Hopefully Howes and Woewodin can be this type. 

Players to possibly improve our midfield that could be gettable ( Flanders - GC,  Ash - GWS , Duursma - Port , Robertson - Bris , Macrae - Coll )

Small/ General Defenders 

We need to find a Hibberd replacement soon and we could do with some more run out of the backline. McVee has looked good early in the season and Rivers has been good at times. I think we need another medium Intercepting type that can provide some run. As people have mentioned our ground level defending has often looked shaky, which is not great considering we often play a spare defender. Not sure who we could look at to improve this area. 

Key Defenders 

Ok at the moment here. I think Lever would be more effective as the 3rd tall. Turner looks good in the VFL. May isn't getting any younger. Adams is showing some signs in the VFL. Tomlinson looks past it at AFL level. may need to draft another young key defender. Be nice if we didn't need Petty up forward, perhaps Himmelberg - GWS as a FA could be an option 

Rucks 

Obviously strong at the moment, however Gawn is not the player he was two years ago. We definitely need another young up and coming ruck soonish. Maybe Verrall can be that player, but another area that needs addressing I feel. 

Very keen on here others thoughts on where the list is at and what/who we need to get better ? 

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

23 minutes ago, DemonJack 14 said:

I think it's likely one or both of Tmac or Brown retires at the end of the year

Why not today or tomorrow?

25 minutes ago, DemonJack 14 said:

Small/General Forwards 

Fritsch, Chandler, Spargo, Pickett. ANB  is a good group of small to medium forwards. The pressure they apply is usually good. 2nd in the league for tackles inside 50 testament to that

The issue with this group is it’s one too many players unless they are providing significant midfield minutes. ANB usually gets a go on a wing or mid, but that takes him from his best role. 

IMO Pickett’s lost the trust of the coaches to play midfield due to his suspect attack on the ball and we need him forward. Spargo and Chandler don’t go on ball (they could!) and lack weapons to create goals through pressure or craft.

And I’ve made my thoughts clear on Fritsch if we’re playing 2 rucks and 2 talls he has to provide pressure or a wing rotation to contribute to the team and not his stat sheet. 

[Rocknroll 1,005]

My feel we are missing some line breaking speed.  

[roy11 3,877]

Just now, Rocknroll said:

My feel we are missing some line breaking speed.  

Makes me miss Jayden Hunt.

[Young Blood 2,634]

Jesus now we're going to talk about list changes? Can we at least wait until round 20 or something? I guess halfway point assessment isn't such a bad thing but I really don't think its the list thats the issue at the moment from a talent standpoint. Obviously, we need forwards and younger talent for our ageing players but that will all happen in due course. 

I'll be sticking to structure and game plan threads and check in at the end of the year with a full season to assess. 

[Nascent 9,280]

19 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Why not today or tomorrow?

Both players are taking to the field and one in the AFL. With finals and potentially a grand final in play and a key forward spot up for grabs, they're not going to pull the pin.

[roy11 3,877]

30 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Jesus now we're going to talk about list changes? Can we at least wait until round 20 or something? I guess halfway point assessment isn't such a bad thing but I really don't think its the list thats the issue at the moment from a talent standpoint. Obviously, we need forwards and younger talent for our ageing players but that will all happen in due course. 

I'll be sticking to structure and game plan threads and check in at the end of the year with a full season to assess. 

Yeh can park it for a little, but interesting to have this thread up and about the same time people are debating whether we should enter a bidding war for the #1 Pick.

In the meantime we keep an eye on Kynan Brown and Riak Andrew and trust the list gurus

[adonski 12,410]

Speed, class, regardless of position is the biggest need, perhaps has been for the last several years?

 

[whatwhat say what 22,897]

45 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I guess if Mason Cox can play in goggles and Sam De Koning in a full face mask there’s no reason why BBB can’t have his 4 wheel frame out on the ground. 

you are quite something

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

13 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Wow. Stunning lack of respect. You continue to out do yourself, DS.

 

10 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

That's a really unnecessary comment.  Do yourself a favour and delete it.

 

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is Sh it take.

 

We’re all a bit sensitive today aren’t we.

BBB is a premiership hero and a great person but he’s over 30 with a chronic degenerative knee issue. The poor guy can barely break out of a jog any more.

Kane Lambert is a Richmond hero who had a bung hip and couldn’t run to his previous levels. He was 30 last year when Richmond - in finals contention - wound him up prior to the midseason draft. He’s now their midfield coach.

BBB could be in the coaches box helping Stafford get the best out of forwards and letting Jefferson have a more prominent role at Casey. I’m not saying boot him from the club. But it really looks like time for him as a player 

 

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Short term....

Mids

Amature view but FWIW....

Only one effective first use extractor in the last few weeks.  That's Viney.  With some assists from Max.

The odd extraction from Grundy, Jordan with super rare ones from part timers like Kozzy & Gus.

If the first two aren't firing we are toast at CBs.

The oppo just need to shut Viney down for two quarters or so and any average midfield (or better) are either easily matching us or the better teams are beating us up.

Stick Grundy in the middle and Viney's ability to extract goes down even further.

Clarry used to be a gun here (previous two seasons).  Not so sure so far this season (first use extraction at CBs).

If i'm the line coach / coach i'd be sitting down with Clazz and asking a few questions on this as to why this part of his game has dropped away substantially the last 3 matches or so.

Maybe the hammy was twinging a tad in the lead up to it going?  Who knows.

Regardless a short term solution here might be to

1.  Get Clarry back to 2021/22 best asap.  Recovery obviously crucial here.

2.  Get Dunstan back to full fit and straight into the guts to assist Viney, Max and hopefully Clarry can also find his mojo here again.

3.  Rivers on a short term trial (2 to 3 matches) to see what he can bring with clearance work on the outside

4.  Woe in for Spargo .... as per Rivers above.... see if he can offer something as a clearance option.

Core midfield group

Group A:  Max, Viney, Tracc & Sparrow (assuming we can fix his recent extraction absence).

Group B:  Max or Grundy, Dunstan, Clarry (clearance more than extraction) Sparrow & Jordon

Group C:  Max or Grundy, Dunstan, Tracc, Rivers (or Woe off the bench)

Forwards

Need a tall leading forward to draw the oppo's tallest/best defender from JVR.

Not sure Macca is the answer as he appears to have lost a yard on the lead and struggling here.

Probably go for BBB to ensure the oppo sends their no.1 defender.  Benny will at least get the ball to ground  and draw frees even if he doesn't mark all that often.  

Lastly maybe consider bringing in Joel Smith to replace Chandler and offer a medium tall mobile leading forward to compliment BBB, leading to the opposite flank.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[poita 3,902]

Too many NQR small forwards on the list, not enough midfield depth. 

Too many long term contracts for blokes in their thirties. We already have four blokes in their thirties in the VFL, three of whom have contracts for next year, and who are already impeding the development of our younger players. I have grave doubts about the ability of three others currently in the senior team to see out their current deals.

We don't turn the list over enough - there are blokes in the VFL who are simply aren't good enough who are just taking up spots on the list. And where, aside from Van Rooyen, are the promising kids? Our last three drafts have just been plain ordinary.

 

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,959]

3 hours ago, DemonJack 14 said:

Where is our list really at ? 

Maybe it's not the entire problem. Obviously other factors such game plan, structures, fitness and work rate/effort I think are contributing to where we are at the moment. 

But I think our list really does need some reworking. I know it's a highly rated list on paper, but a lot of players I think have reached their peak and are regressing or have stagnated. Only a handful of players have progressed from last year. 

Key Forwards 

Huge issue for me. Almost every other club has better quality and depth of key forwards than us. Tmac and Brown are almost finished and lack speed ,mobility and presence at ground level. I Can see why Goodwin wants Petty up forward to give us some marking power. JVR looks promising and competes hard. He still needs to keep improving and we can't expect him to kick bags of goals every week. Jefferson needs more time in the gym and a few more pre-seasons. Early in the season he looked promising in the VFL but has dropped off significantly lately. Schache should be given a bit more time to see what he has got at senior level I think but hasn't been smashing the door down at Casey. I would like to see Joel Smith given a go considering his recent VFL form and before he inevitably gets injured again. 

I think it's likely one or both of Tmac or Brown retires at the end of the year. I think we need to target another established  key forward from another club.  ( Riccardi - GWS, Georgiades - Port , Mitch Lewis - Haw ) 

Or we draft another with a first round pick (Archer Reid, Daniel Curtin or Nate Caddy) 

Small/General Forwards 

Fritsch, Chandler, Spargo, Pickett. ANB  is a good group of small to medium forwards. The pressure they apply is usually good. 2nd in the league for tackles inside 50 testament to that. Chandler has really come on this year. I think we could do with some more speed and more skill in this area however. some attacking flair ( Liam Henry - Frem, Kai Lohman -Bris , Jade Gresham - Stk) 

Maybe draft Nick Watson if he is available 

 

Another 6 goals on the weekend for Nick Watson at Caulfield Grammar away against Xavier. No Noah Yze. 

[Ollie fan 3,468]

Looking at Blakey’s game for Sydney on the weekend, I was thinking -that is the style of game that would suit Rivers perfectly: he should study it. It could make him a very powerful weapon.

[RedFox 533]

Mids and key forwards next draft. Any word from Casey watchers how Jefferson is tracking?

[Ollie fan 3,468]

In the draft we need to find and prepare a replacement for May in the next year or so - someone big and strong.

[beelzebub 23,382]

Just now, Ollie fan said:

In the draft we need to find and prepare a replacement for May in the next year or so - someone big and strong.

The problem to my thinking about finding a May succesor, and indeed we do , is that May didn't become the beast he is in a just a few seasons after his draft. Given time frames i doubt anyone in thisor next seasons intake could possibly take on that mantle.

Im a believer you have to go shopping/trading. ..   just me perhaps. 

[Ollie fan 3,468]

I agree but most clubs don’t trade them away! -so better late than never.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, Rocknroll said:

My feel we are missing some line breaking speed.  

Yes partly this ...we did have two in Hunt & Baker but alas.

This list does look pretty ploddy by foot now.

Yes i know....the ball moves quicker in the air.  But it ain't going anywhere unless you can break away from your opponent first, which then allows you to finish off the work in the chain and / or take a decent crack at the goals.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, RedFox said:

Mids and key forwards next draft. Any word from Casey watchers how Jefferson is tracking?

Tracking ok for now but not a plausible short term option to come in either given how young / green he is plus his height.

Possibly another season and a half at Casey needed (or thereabouts)... if he makes it.

Fair bit of strength / gym work ahead to stay strong and keep his feet in the contest.  Patience needed.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Roost it far 8,573]

30 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Tracking ok for now but not a plausible  short term option to come in as a fix  for a fix either given how young / green he is plus his height.

Possibly another season and a half at Casey needed (or thereabouts)... if he makes it.

Fair bit of strength / gym work ahead to stay strong and keep his feet in the contest.  Patience needed.

Luck needed more like it. From the games i've seen he's miles away. No presence.

[spirit of norm smith 16,569]

Hold on. After 2021, it was all smiles and platitudes to the list assembled by Goody, Todd and JT (and Josh Mahoney of course). A possible premiership Demon Dynasty they all proclaimed!! 
 

So why are we querying the JT theology and Goodys master list plan ?? 
 

is it the lack of outside Mids with real class ? 
is it the absence of a real key forward to kick key goals and be the pillar of the attack ? 
 

our ability to stockpile inside Mids or half backs is perhaps a query!   Or the absence of real pace with the dismissal of Hunt and Baker showcasing our disregard for leg speed. 
 

but we have such talent across every line with gaps really being the pursuit of perfection- and why not aim for that … the Pies have !!! 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

10 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Luck needed more like it. From the games i've seen he's miles away. No presence.

You may be proven right Roost.

We just differ in terms of the time required i reckon and while not setting the world on fire yet, he has shown the odd bit of promise in some games.

I'm prepared to give the young fellla more time.  Too early to rule him out imv and at 195cm they tend to take a bit longer to find their feet.

[spirit of norm smith 16,569]

1 hour ago, RedFox said:

Mids and key forwards next draft. Any word from Casey watchers how Jefferson is tracking?

In development at least until 2025.  Needs a lot of physical development.  Needs a lot more footy smarts. Good mark and shows glimpses of talent.  

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

20 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Luck needed more like it. From the games i've seen he's miles away. No presence.

He looked good his first few VFL games but as the Casey forward line has got taller and taller and the midfield less stocked he’s dropped right off.

It’s a worry he’s getting progressively less output and the bye hasn’t helped.