46 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I think some people over estimate our list - I’m still trying to work out if some of them are just done at this level or our system / passion is just not right 

Perhaps both.  For a start we can stop all the laughing and smiling during the on ground warm up

Our weaknesses have been on display for 12 months. I don't think that qualifies as kneejerk. But yes, plenty of posts, mine included, have been pessimistic and critical and maybe it would be a good thing if we all toned it down. Maybe.

9 hours ago, A F said:

What is a loser mentality though mate? Some of us are merely saying we need a bit of perspective. It's fine to vent our frustration, but you're implying here we're not contenders because we've lost two games by a total of 11 points,  yet we sit in the top 4 with a very healthy percentage that also happens to currently be the best percentage.

 

I never said we aren’t contenders. I said that in our current form we aren’t contenders and that things need to change if we are to win. 
In fact in the same post that you quoted I said that we deserve to be a successful club!

Your history lesson is a good one. What it shows is that those teams improved dramatically in order to then go on to win the flag. They didn’t just repeat their mediocre form all season and then somehow had a flag fall in their lap. 
 

But apparently to suggest that we need to improve in key areas in order to win is being negative and hysterical, not pragmatic or realistic. 
 

I love this club, but I’m not blind to its faults. We are seeing our own history from last season repeat itself. We seem to have not improved in the areas that hurt us last season either.
To bury your head in the sand and say oh we only lost our last two games by 11 points, is to paper over the cracks in a very convenient way to the narrative that we all so desperately want to believe, which is that things will get better and we will win the flag in 2023. 
I hope more than anything that you’re right, but without change I can’t see it happening. 

Edited May 27, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

12 minutes ago, binman said:

This.

People can obviously choose their own post loss adventure.

But there's not much point engaging if you have a contrary perspective to the hysteria. 

The counter intuitive element is the hysteria is normalised and measured perspectives are dismissed as hysteria or head in the sand stuff.

It is a DL thing. And for the third year in a row around round 10 to post bye period it goes into full on mode.

Tis the season for anomalous results. One only need to look at yesterday's results for evidence.

Four top 8 sides rolled by teams outside the 8.

Including the cats at a ground they have a 90%, or some such wininning record.

I suspect Port will be added to that list today.

 

Well I certainly want to hear the positive sides, It balances out the yin and yang.

I just don't want to hear excuses and fluff. For example being the highest scoring side didn't count for much yesterday and it doesn't fill me with confidence the next time we face an organised team like Freo that is difficult to break down. We didn't put the goals on the board when it mattered, it is a problem and needs to be corrected. I don't then want to hear the excuse of Clarry missing, we matched them in clearances and beat them on inside 50s, we had enough ball to win this one and in saying that I will admit this is a good example of things not being as good or bad as they seem because a few better functioning things would have kicked the goals to win it.

More than happy to hear the other side from people like yourself, just don't want to be ostracised for being passionate and disappointed.

2023...   a kinda Deeja Vu

19 minutes ago, Billy said:

How’s the rose coloured glasses going? We were terrible against an average opponent on our home deck & not much better in Port without their two best forwards out.

Our forward line is a shambles, Tmac has been a great servant of the club but his best days are years behind him & our 4 small forwards are way out of form.

We had a great wing combination in 2021 with Langdon & Brayshaw, so what does Goodwin do, bring in a 29yo reject from the Dogs, Langdon falls off the cliff & Brayshaw has to play anywhere there’s a vacant spot.

We now have 2 Wingers that run around like headless chooks & are afraid to tackle

Gawn & Grundy are a work in progress that’s really struggling connecting with our midfield (but hopefully will be ok)

The backline is still solid but not getting the help from up the ground that we were known for.

Geelong had 10 players out & still nearly find a way to win, we have Oliver & Petty out & are falling apart 

 

Good summation there Billy.

I've got too much going on in my life to get too hung up about the defeats we've had this season.

Do I think we could and should be playing better and like it more if we were convincingly controlling games, closing them out and walking away victorious - yes totally.  But some of the over reactions (and amplified x10 on other forums) are crazy.

I'm largely tuned out just at the moment, but do appreciate the sensible analysis and thoughts on here even in the event of a loss.  Even some of the more reasonable vents as put by @Jaded No More are acceptable.

One thing for sure is that it's a completely different feeling being 7 - 4 or whatever we are now, compared to the 10 - 1 and 54% that is currently the Eagles lot, but use to be us not so long ago.

Perspective is a good thing.

Towards the end of Paul Roos tenure a new assistant came on board.

He came up with some quite maverick ideas and gamestyle inventions.  Quite the breath of fresh air. First he got to try out some ideas in the preseason then later got some time in the sun.  Our game changed. We became quite unpredictable.  We played with these ideas and Roos'  blessing . We started going OK there for a  while.

That assistant was of course Simon Goodwin. Whatever became of him....or rather...whatever happened to the invention ?? I do miss that bloke... current version....  not so much.

Our game has to change...either with him( by him )..  or without him  bye him.

 

Including our strait finals exit in 2022 we have beaten 1 current top 8 team (dogs) in 13 games. 
 

12 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I've got too much going on in my life to get too hung up about the defeats we've had this season.

Do I think we could and should be playing better and like it more if we were convincingly controlling games, closing them out and walking away victorious - yes totally.  But some of the over reactions (and amplified x10 on other forums) are crazy.

I'm largely tuned out just at the moment, but do appreciate the sensible analysis and thoughts on here even in the event of a loss.  Even some of the more reasonable vents as put by @Jaded No More are acceptable.

One thing for sure is that it's a completely different feeling being 7 - 4 or whatever we are now, compared to the 10 - 1 and 54% that is currently the Eagles lot, but use to be us not so long ago.

Perspective is a good thing.

Totally agree, but don’t we have to make the most of a quality list while we can, it turns around quickly 

23 minutes ago, layzie said:

Well I certainly want to hear the positive sides, It balances out the yin and yang.

I just don't want to hear excuses and fluff. 

Herein lies the problem.

I suspect we have a very different take on what constitutes 'excuses and fluff'.

As for being ostracised for being passionate and disappointed, that ain't gonna happen.

The point I was trying to make is that tge passionate and disappointed voices are well in truly in the majority and that it is in fact the more measured voices that are shouted down. That's counter intuitive in the real world - but not in footy forum world.

We have seen this exact movie before at this point before in 2021 and 2022.

And no doubt this time last year the cats footy boards were much rhe same. 

But as I say people can choose however they want to process losses. 

Different strokes for different folks.

But personally I'd prefer not to get shouted down for views that contradict those of the majority. And my experience is that is, by and large, what happens at this point in the season.

1 minute ago, binman said:

Herein lies the problem.

I suspect we have a very different take on what constitutes 'excuses and fluff'.

As for being ostracised for being passionate and disappointed, that ain't gonna happen.

The point I was trying to make is that tge passionate and disappointed voices are well in truly in the majority and that it is in fact the more measured voices that are shouted down. That's counter intuitive in the real world - but not in footy forum world.

We have seen this exact movie before at this point before in 2021 and 2022.

And no doubt this time last year the cats footy boards were much rhe same. 

But as I say people can choose however they want to process losses. 

Different strokes for different folks.

But personally I'd prefer not to get shouted down for views that contradict those of the majority. And my experience is that is, by and large, what happens at this point in the season.

Yep, I agree.

We don't want the measured voices getting shouted down, I certainly don't despite venting my frustrations.

Keep doing what you do Binman.

1 minute ago, binman said:

But personally I'd prefer not to get shouted down for views that contradict those of the majority. And my experience is that is, by and large, what happens at this point in the season.

And this is equally a problem as you say. 

I love to read the counterarguments. I love the always positive vibes of some on here like yourself. I think it’s great that you’re trying to come up with rational reasons so to why we are losing, just as much as others (like me), are trying to pinpoint the reasons why we are losing. 
 

Neither of these outlooks should be dismissed, so long as they’re done respectfully. 
The entire point of Demonland is to discuss the game and the team. The differing opinions is what makes this place so engaging, and I think we can all learn from one another.

If I wanted a boring one sided discussion I’ll head over to the North Korea supporter forum. 

42 minutes ago, layzie said:

Well I certainly want to hear the positive sides, It balances out the yin and yang.

I just don't want to hear excuses and fluff. For example being the highest scoring side didn't count for much yesterday and it doesn't fill me with confidence the next time we face an organised team like Freo that is difficult to break down. We didn't put the goals on the board when it mattered, it is a problem and needs to be corrected. I don't then want to hear the excuse of Clarry missing, we matched them in clearances and beat them on inside 50s, we had enough ball to win this one and in saying that I will admit this is a good example of things not being as good or bad as they seem because a few better functioning things would have kicked the goals to win it.

More than happy to hear the other side from people like yourself, just don't want to be ostracised for being passionate and disappointed.

Love your passion Layzie.  There are some eggheads here you wouldn't want to be stuck in a lift with but that what makes this wonderful world go around. What is really annoying is those who vent by paying out on other posters. I'll never name names and I like to think I'm somewhat respectful but I forget that this microcosm has others who don't give a rats. Go you good Dees. 

I think that if people start looking at the team like a mid-table team pushing into the contention equation, rather than already being in contention, then the record and performance aligns more with expectation, and it makes it easier to handle. 

I think it's clear now that atm we are probably at the top end of the 5th-10th ranked group of teams, which puts us into contention for top 4 but an outside chance for the flag relative to genuine top 4 contenders (Brisbane and Collingwood).

Thinks can turn very quickly though and 7 losses generally nets you top 4 but this year could be anywhere from 4th to 9th. We are on track for 8 losses. 

Suggest we persist with JVR, McVee, get Laurie, Turner into the side, blood Woewoden. Improve our draft hand. And maybe lure some free agents. Worried that persisting with the likes of McDonald, ANB, Harmes will cost us in the long term. We've pushed Jordon out the door. And for what? ANB's turnovers.

Then start preparing for 2024 and 2025 flag push. Because it's not happening this year. People have to let 2021 go and move on.

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by praha

1 hour ago, layzie said:

Yep, I agree.

We don't want the measured voices getting shouted down, I certainly don't despite venting my frustrations.

Keep doing what you do Binman.

If you were sitting anywhere within a 100 metre radius of me yesterday you would have no doubt how passionate, frustrated and disappointed I was. My throat is ruined.

On a related point, I have not generally been critical of dees fans not showing up. But yesterday was pathetic. 29k on a perfect Saturday arvo for footy. 

And I'm positive it would have made a difference if there was more vocal passionate dees at the ground. For one thing we might have actually won a God damn holding the ball free. 

So anyone who is on board the dees are rubbish train who could have gone yesterday (i dont mean those who cant, live interstate, have mobility issues, had a funeral, were getting married, have covid etc etc) but chose not to - you are part of the problem not the solution. Buy a mirror.

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by binman

8 minutes ago, praha said:

I think that if people start looking at the team like a mid-table team pushing into the contention equation, rather than already being in contention, then the record and performance aligns more with expectation, and it makes it easier to handle. 

I think it's clear now that atm we are probably at the top end of the 5th-10th ranked group of teams, which puts us into contention for top 4 but an outside chance for the flag relative to genuine top 4 contenders (Brisbane and Collingwood).

Thinks can turn very quickly though and 7 losses generally nets you top 4 but this year could be anywhere from 4th to 9th. We are on track for 8 losses. 

Suggest we persist with JVR, McVee, get Laurie, Turner into the side, blood Woewoden. Improve our draft hand. And maybe lure some free agents. Worried that persisting with the likes of McDonald, ANB, Harmes will cost us in the long term. We've pushed Jordon out the door. And for what? ANB's turnovers.

Then start preparing for 2024 and 2025 flag push. Because it's not happening this year. People have to let 2021 go and move on.

The issue is we don’t blood enough youngsters. ANB started well yesterday then left, Harmes the same,  Spargo and Chandler were off and TMac is not the present or the future. That’s 5 of your 22 not doing much. I’d prefer we play Schache, Turner and one of Laurie or Woewodin, or a bit of both and look to seeing where our list is at. Problem is we should have been doing that since round 1 and I can’t see Goodwin changing things up much from know on. We’re “stuck” at the top and look stale and unadventurous. Surely with Petty out and Turner playing well you get him into the side? How many poor games does Spargo get to play before Laurie has a chance? TMac over Schache? At least Schache can run. (I can’t believe I want Schache in the side but what’s the alternative?)

12 hours ago, layzie said:

I appreciate the thread from Bobby but I find the people who sit back and wait to attack the people who show frustration on here quite obnoxious. It's like they're secretly hoping for us to lose so DL goes into meltdown and they can gaslight posters who actually  care about the game and this club, making themselves look really high and mighty in the process.

It's frankly pathetic, we might care and say things we don't 100% mean in the moment but we aren't stupid and idiotic maniacs and you aren't better than us.

Well that post is the pudding.

Most of the good posters I know don't bother to venture here after a loss like yesterday.

Love to see Josh Schache get a few more games....get a decent run

When Burgess walked out it wasnt just fitness but a whole lot of discipline and professionalism that went out the door too.

Half the group are coasting atm.

Goodwin's gameplan is hedged far too much to perfect structure and he's uninspiring as [censored].

Too slow. Too poor 1 on 1. Teamwork questionable. Easily outcoached. Play like gentlemen. Too much load on too few. Too predictable. Zero kicking game. Skills lacking.

7-4 flatters us.

We will win a few more games here or there but 2023 is going to be a nothing year unless there is a fundamental shift in attitude, hunger and gamestyle. Unlikely at this stage because the culture is about being warm and fuzzy instead of calling 'a spade a spade'.

Not wholesale changes but a mini clean out is required at end of year. The coach needs serious scrutiny as well. 

Fresh players, fresh ideas and fresh mindset required for 2024 otherwise the next 5 years will be dismal. The comp will leave us behind.

44 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

And this is equally a problem as you say. 

I love to read the counterarguments. I love the always positive vibes of some on here like yourself. I think it’s great that you’re trying to come up with rational reasons so to why we are losing, just as much as others (like me), are trying to pinpoint the reasons why we are losing. 
 

Neither of these outlooks should be dismissed, so long as they’re done respectfully. 
The entire point of Demonland is to discuss the game and the team. The differing opinions is what makes this place so engaging, and I think we can all learn from one another.

If I wanted a boring one sided discussion I’ll head over to the North Korea supporter forum. 

Great post Jaded.

This is what makes the forum tick, you'd never see an "Is Kim Jong Un the right guy?" Thread in the North Korea forum and it would be boring.

43 minutes ago, binman said:

If you were sitting anywhere within a metre radius of me yesterday you would have no doubt how passionate, frustrated and disappointed I was. My throat is ruined.

On a related point, I have not generally been critical of dees fans not showing up. But yesterday was pathetic. 29k on a perfect Saturday arvo for footy. 

And I'm positive it would have made a difference if there was more vocal passionate dees at the ground. For one thing we might have actually won a God damn holding the ball free. 

So anyone who is on board the dees are rubbish train who could have gone yesterday (i dont mean those who cant, live interstate, have mobility issues, had a funeral, were getting married, have covid etc etc) but chose not to - you are part of the problem not the solution. Buy a mirror.

I don't usually get too worried about crowd numbers either as long as they are generally ok but yesterday really disappointed me. Timeslots were regularly a gripe last year for some not attending but then we get presented with an old fashioned Saturday 2:10pm game and we bottled it. It was pretty embarrassing.

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by layzie

15 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Oh dear! we lose two games against good teams by a kick and the reaction of gloom and doom by some of our regular contributors including Joe Boy is so predictable.

 Win, we are the best. Lose. we are rabble and all is lost this year. Honestly, what mindset do they have? 7-4 and a great percentage and they complain.

What do you think Geelong supporters are feeling right now?  Do you think they have thrown in the towel? Sensible non Geelong supporters would never write them off as premiers 2023, me included. We will still give this flag a shake. 

We have been sliding downwards since last year... Hardly kneejerk... We just have a old decaying forward line and not much talent comming through. And no game plan 

1 hour ago, Billy said:

Totally agree, but don’t we have to make the most of a quality list while we can, it turns around quickly 

Yup, on the same page there too.  Having watched so many talented sides in the 90s go unrewarded and then living through the pain of the 2005 - 2018 era, I also really hope we make the most of what we have now and get that elusive flag at the G.

35 minutes ago, old55 said:

Well that post is the pudding.

Most of the good posters I know don't bother to venture here after a loss like yesterday.

Can't tell if this is a compliment or an insult but thanks either way!