We are underperforming especially against decent sides and so it’s not unexpected that there will be a reaction. I would be upset if there wasn’t disappointment expressed. Todays loss was unacceptable. 

Freo are not a good team. 

2 hours ago, Bang Bang Bang said:

Even if we win these days I’d say it’s only 60-70% positive, the carry on after the Suns game was pretty embarrassing. Today’s performance was pretty bad though. 

 

The Suns win is looking pretty okay given tonight's result against footscray.

Just now, Die Hard Demon said:

Freo are not a good team. 

Good take this. 

They didn’t win it as much as we lost it. Unlike Port last week who were actually significantly better than us all over the ground, Freo are a middle of the road side who played half a game without their #1 ruckman and without their #1 goal kicker and still somehow made us look bad. 

4 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

This is such a [censored] take. I’m sorry but nobody here wants to see us lose. You only needed to be here post flag to see how invested and happy everyone was. 

I hate this notion that you shouldn’t vent or be upset post loss. Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems, but ffs if supporters want to be upset and have a crack, who cares?

As long as nobody is being personal or nasty or rude, why can’t supporters be reactionary? Why can you make big calls post win but not post loss? 
And why are Melbourne supporters so scared to call out issues? It’s like you’re not a real fan if you aren’t happy with every single thing the club does.

Anyone who pays their membership and has sat through two decades of rubbish served prior to 2021, has every right to be as upset as they want post game, so long as they continue to support the club in both good times and bad. 
 

And by the way, nobody at Demonland is forcing anyone to read anything. If people don’t like to read posts after a loss, why come online then? Venting about others venting is equally as ridiculous. 

Look I think THBT does have a point when it comes to those that only come on here after a loss. Fortunately we haven't seen too many of those around here today.

But I don't like this inference that we are bad fans or part of the traveling peanut gallery circus if we dare to bring up what we didn't like. It's a forum, deal with it or don't read it.

I also don't like being accused of attacking other posters for simply calling out an overplayed statistic about scoring in an general and non-personal way. That's bull [censored].

I enjoy being positive on DL, I'll also call it as I see it. No need to live life in a little box.

3 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Oh dear! we lose two games against good teams by a kick and the reaction of gloom and doom by some of our regular contributors including Joe Boy is so predictable.

 Win, we are the best. Lose. we are rabble and all is lost this year. Honestly, what mindset do they have? 7-4 and a great percentage and they complain.

What do you think Geelong supporters are feeling right now?  Do you think they have thrown in the towel? Sensible non Geelong supporters would never write them off as premiers 2023, me included. We will still give this flag a shake. 

Ok then tell me what has changed from 2021 to now, seeing we got bundled out last year easily, tell us what will have to change for us to improve and make the top 4, let us know how we went from 10 -0 to struggle for the rest of the year last year interested in your opinion? 

7 minutes ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Freo are not a good team. 

I agree. To trot out last weeks gallant defeat line doesn't wash here and suggests accepting average.

Edited May 27, 20231 yr by layzie

Will check back in a few weeks time to see if your tune has changed

Edited May 27, 20231 yr by david_neitz_is_my_dad

Can people stop looking for excuses. This is what always separates the best teams from the worst. Freo are a middle of the road team at best. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to the knee jerk reactions. 

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

It's great to be positive but freo are not a good side. They lost to norf at home.

What will actually happen when we play a good side is a real concern.

 

Yep, on current form Collingwood will smash us in a very ugly way. 🤢

There is also this weird notion here that because we aren’t the laughing stock we once were, we have no right to be annoyed about a loss. After all, we once would lose by 10 goals and finish bottom 4, so we should just be grateful every day that we are not that bad anymore. 

It’s such a loser mentality. We deserve to be a successful club and we deserve to be contenders. To be happy with anything less than that, is to be happy with mediocrity, which with our current list, is not where we should be. 

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

There is also this weird notion here that because we aren’t the laughing stock we once were, we have no right to be annoyed about a loss. After all, we once would lose by 10 goals and finish bottom 4, so we should just be grateful every day that we are not that bad anymore. 

It’s such a loser mentality. We deserve to be a successful club and we deserve to be contenders. To be happy with anything less than that, is to be happy with mediocrity, which with our current list, is not where we should be. 

We have a list full of premiership players, I want us to act like that. Not like a team trying to get into the 8 like Essendon or Carlton, ok with the odd patchy loss but hey we got close!

We're aiming for top 4 and playing an OK team on our home deck and lose. We may not all be ropeable as fans but I'd sure hope the team is.

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

We have a list full of premiership players, I want us to act like that. Not like a team trying to get into the 8 like Essendon or Carlton, ok with the odd patchy loss but hey we got close!

We're aiming for top 4 and playing an OK team on our home deck and lose. We may not all be ropeable as fans but I'd sure hope the team is.

I think it’s the opposite.. majority of fans are clearly ropeable.. Players will be like ah gee freo are a great side & we nearly won.. that’s probably good enough! 

6 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

There is also this weird notion here that because we aren’t the laughing stock we once were, we have no right to be annoyed about a loss. After all, we once would lose by 10 goals and finish bottom 4, so we should just be grateful every day that we are not that bad anymore. 

It’s such a loser mentality. We deserve to be a successful club and we deserve to be contenders. To be happy with anything less than that, is to be happy with mediocrity, which with our current list, is not where we should be. 

Yep, supporters mentality must change. We now have a champion team, and unfortunately that means we should expect the best performance from this group every single game.

I am not saying the playing group has to be perfect and go 23-0 every year But it does mean that you expect them to show real care, hunger and determination even when things are not going your way.

We can lose, any team loses. It's the way you lose and how those "learnings" (my most despised word) don't seem to come to fruition, feel like empty words from the coach sometimes.

22 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

This is such a [censored] take. I’m sorry but nobody here wants to see us lose. You only needed to be here post flag to see how invested and happy everyone was. 

I hate this notion that you shouldn’t vent or be upset post loss. Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems, but ffs if supporters want to be upset and have a crack, who cares?

As long as nobody is being personal or nasty or rude, why can’t supporters be reactionary? Why can you make big calls post win but not post loss? 
And why are Melbourne supporters so scared to call out issues? It’s like you’re not a real fan if you aren’t happy with every single thing the club does.

Anyone who pays their membership and has sat through two decades of rubbish served prior to 2021, has every right to be as upset as they want post game, so long as they continue to support the club in both good times and bad. 
 

And by the way, nobody at Demonland is forcing anyone to read anything. If people don’t like to read posts after a loss, why come online then? Venting about others venting is equally as ridiculous. 

Did you even read what I said?

I never said any of what you spent so long responding to. Sometimes you love an irrational rant Jaded.

41 minutes ago, layzie said:

Look I think THBT does have a point when it comes to those that only come on here after a loss. Fortunately we haven't seen too many of those around here today.

But I don't like this inference that we are bad fans or part of the traveling peanut gallery circus if we dare to bring up what we didn't like. It's a forum, deal with it or don't read it.

I also don't like being accused of attacking other posters for simply calling out an overplayed statistic about scoring in an general and non-personal way. That's bull [censored].

I enjoy being positive on DL, I'll also call it as I see it. No need to live life in a little box.

Jaded had a rant about a lot of stuff that I never said. I’m happy to discuss the team, and the psychology of sports fans - but I never said, or inferred, anyone was a bad fan. I simply said I have a bias that makes me see a lot of the same negative posters after a loss. I’m sure a lot of other posters also have the same bias that means they see certain posters opinions post loss and think ‘here we go’.

I was actually using that statement as a way to relate to you @layzie as a fellow fan, and to highlight how we all see things differently. It’s a shame another poster twisted my words to suit their own negative context - or maybe that’s just my bias talking again ;)

I like your style Layzie. Don’t go changing. Call it how you see it ✌️

48 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

There is also this weird notion here that because we aren’t the laughing stock we once were, we have no right to be annoyed about a loss. After all, we once would lose by 10 goals and finish bottom 4, so we should just be grateful every day that we are not that bad anymore. 

It’s such a loser mentality. We deserve to be a successful club and we deserve to be contenders. To be happy with anything less than that, is to be happy with mediocrity, which with our current list, is not where we should be. 

What is a loser mentality though mate? Some of us are merely saying we need a bit of perspective. It's fine to vent our frustration, but you're implying here we're not contenders because we've lost two games by a total of 11 points,  yet we sit in the top 4 with a very healthy percentage that also happens to currently be the best percentage.

I'll pop this in here as well.

----

It's all well and good to be frustrated. I thought we were pathetic today, but I find it easier to look at the bigger picture and history is an important reminder in AFL footy (and anything really).

We're top 4, with a softer draw coming up in the second half of the year, with less 8 point games than our other top 4 opposition. Many parts of our game are in good shape (our turnover game), and others (stoppages) need some work.

The stoppages issue IMV has much scope for improvement when we start to throw our better mids through the contest more often. So that's personnel. 

The history side of it is more telling. Many supporters seem to have this expectation that having won 2021, we'd be winning flags over and over in the same way. We've had to change the way we're playing because the competition adapted to our intercept game in 2021. But no team in the modern era has gone through seasons like our 2021 season repeatedly. They've all had ups and downs.

Let's look at the Hawthorn threepeat team as a prime example. 2013 was their 2021. They won 19 games and aside from their qualifying final win over Sydney, won their prelim and GF by a combined 4 goals. Their finals series that season was nothing like the dominance of ours in 2021. And maybe this, plus the fact they'd fallen after their 08 flag, kept them hungry going into 2014.

But still, 2014 saw them finish second on 17 wins. To Round 10, they were 6 and 3 (there was a bye at Round 9). Those three losses were to Sydney (who finished above them in 1st), Geelong (who finished one place below them in 3rd) and 5th placed Port. Plus, they fell over the line to Essendon (who finished 7th) by 4 points in Round 2, and some of their wins were big wins to the likes of the new and young Suns, eventual wooden spooners St Kilda and struggling Brisbane who finished in the bottom 4. 

If that was our start, we'd have been saying all the same things. Oh, we can't beat the sides around us, our competitors, but we have no trouble beating up the lowly sides. We're flattrack bullies etc.

Their 2014 finals campaign was better than their 2013 finals series, winning two finals easily, but winning their prelim against Oort on the MCG by 3 points. Again, nowhere near as good as our 2021 finals series.

Moving on to 2015, and this time, they finished 3rd on 16 wins. They went the first 10 rounds 6-4. To Round 10, they lost to Essendon (who would finish 4th bottom), Port (who would finish 9th), GWS (who finished 11th) and one of their main competitors Sydney (who finished 4th, one place below Hawthorn that year). Meanwhile, they beat Geelong (who would miss the 8 that year), us (who were very ordinary in our second year under Roos - we finished 13th), 16th placed Suns and 14th placed St Kilda. 

Again, a season to Round 10, nothing to write home about. And their finals campaign in 2015 saw them lose their qualifying final and having to go the long way to win it.

Why did I bother with all this? Well, perspective is a funny thing. And it's funny how quickly we forget things. We've forgotten how powerful our 2021 finals campaign was, and expecting us to replicate that is folly. As for it's all over by Round 10 or 11, well, history shows us that is simply not the case and that if you're in the hunt for the top 4 and injury-free come the last few rounds, that's the goal. Not being the clear premiership standout by Round 10, because we know how that goes, don't we Melbourne fans (*cough* 2022 *cough*).

Edited May 27, 20231 yr by A F

47 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

There is also this weird notion here that because we aren’t the laughing stock we once were, we have no right to be annoyed about a loss. After all, we once would lose by 10 goals and finish bottom 4, so we should just be grateful every day that we are not that bad anymore. 

It’s such a loser mentality. We deserve to be a successful club and we deserve to be contenders. To be happy with anything less than that, is to be happy with mediocrity, which with our current list, is not where we should be. 

Who said that? Where? Or is this just you making stuff up again?

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

It's great to be positive but freo are not a good side. They lost to norf at home.

What will actually happen when we play a good side is a real concern.

 

Freo are playing finals this year.

They had a 15 win season last year and were 20 points away from playing Sydney in a prelim. Now they’re on a 4 game winning streak.

I don’t get the under rating of Fremantle.

49 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Jaded had a rant about a lot of stuff that I never said. I’m happy to discuss the team, and the psychology of sports fans - but I never said, or inferred, anyone was a bad fan. I simply said I have a bias that makes me see a lot of the same negative posters after a loss. I’m sure a lot of other posters also have the same bias that means they see certain posters opinions post loss and think ‘here we go’.

I was actually using that statement as a way to relate to you @layzie as a fellow fan, and to highlight how we all see things differently. It’s a shame another poster twisted my words to suit their own negative context - or maybe that’s just my bias talking again ;)

I like your style Layzie. Don’t go changing. Call it how you see it ✌️

Yeah definitely wasn't referring to you after the first paragraph THBT. The rest was very generalised. Appreciate the words and likewise!

Think we've all had a big day, a big big day. 

Edited May 27, 20231 yr by layzie

1 hour ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Freo are not a good team. 

That's what cuts me the most about today.

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

It's great to be positive but freo are not a good side. They lost to norf at home.

What will actually happen when we play a good side is a real concern.

 

Repeat, they are a good side. In the last three games they have beaten Sydney in Sydney,Geelong and now Melbourne on the MCG. Three pretty good scalps I would think.

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Yep, supporters mentality must change. We now have a champion team...

We had a champion team in 2021. We don't have one now. We have a decent list with Oliver and Petracca masking big holes in our list.

1. Our second tier midfielders are bog ordinary compared to the top teams.

2. Our key forwards are a 20 year JvR and a washed up TMac.

3. Our other All Australians (May, Gawn, Hibberd, Grundy, Lever) are on the decline or struggling for form. 

4. Our other 'stars': Salem, Fritsch, Kozzie, maybe Brayshaw have been subdued by their standards.

5. Our depth is shallow or untested. Tomlinson, Schache, Smith, Dunstan, Melksham, BBB can sometimes do a job but fluctuate in impact. The untested Howes, Laurie, Woey jnr, etc. have not been or have hardly been given the opportunity. 

6. We have small forwards that are no longer impacting the scoreboard.

It might be the game plan. Might be something else but this is not a 'champion' team.

Edited May 27, 20231 yr by dee-tox

4 hours ago, A F said:

What is a loser mentality though mate? Some of us are merely saying we need a bit of perspective. It's fine to vent our frustration, but you're implying here we're not contenders because we've lost two games by a total of 11 points,  yet we sit in the top 4 with a very healthy percentage that also happens to currently be the best percentage.

I'll pop this in here as well.

----

It's all well and good to be frustrated. I thought we were pathetic today, but I find it easier to look at the bigger picture and history is an important reminder in AFL footy (and anything really).

We're top 4, with a softer draw coming up in the second half of the year, with less 8 point games than our other top 4 opposition. Many parts of our game are in good shape (our turnover game), and others (stoppages) need some work.

The stoppages issue IMV has much scope for improvement when we start to throw our better mids through the contest more often. So that's personnel. 

The history side of it is more telling. Many supporters seem to have this expectation that having won 2021, we'd be winning flags over and over in the same way. We've had to change the way we're playing because the competition adapted to our intercept game in 2021. But no team in the modern era has gone through seasons like our 2021 season repeatedly. They've all had ups and downs.

Let's look at the Hawthorn threepeat team as a prime example. 2013 was their 2021. They won 19 games and aside from their qualifying final win over Sydney, won their prelim and GF by a combined 4 goals. Their finals series that season was nothing like the dominance of ours in 2021. And maybe this, plus the fact they'd fallen after their 08 flag, kept them hungry going into 2014.

But still, 2014 saw them finish second on 17 wins. To Round 10, they were 6 and 3 (there was a bye at Round 9). Those three losses were to Sydney (who finished above them in 1st), Geelong (who finished one place below them in 3rd) and 5th placed Port. Plus, they fell over the line to Essendon (who finished 7th) by 4 points in Round 2, and some of their wins were big wins to the likes of the new and young Suns, eventual wooden spooners St Kilda and struggling Brisbane who finished in the bottom 4. 

If that was our start, we'd have been saying all the same things. Oh, we can't beat the sides around us, our competitors, but we have no trouble beating up the lowly sides. We're flattrack bullies etc.

Their 2014 finals campaign was better than their 2013 finals series, winning two finals easily, but winning their prelim against Oort on the MCG by 3 points. Again, nowhere near as good as our 2021 finals series.

Moving on to 2015, and this time, they finished 3rd on 16 wins. They went the first 10 rounds 6-4. To Round 10, they lost to Essendon (who would finish 4th bottom), Port (who would finish 9th), GWS (who finished 11th) and one of their main competitors Sydney (who finished 4th, one place below Hawthorn that year). Meanwhile, they beat Geelong (who would miss the 8 that year), us (who were very ordinary in our second year under Roos - we finished 13th), 16th placed Suns and 14th placed St Kilda. 

Again, a season to Round 10, nothing to write home about. And their finals campaign in 2015 saw them lose their qualifying final and having to go the long way to win it.

Why did I bother with all this? Well, perspective is a funny thing. And it's funny how quickly we forget things. We've forgotten how powerful our 2021 finals campaign was, and expecting us to replicate that is folly. As for it's all over by Round 10 or 11, well, history shows us that is simply not the case and that if you're in the hunt for the top 4 and injury-free come the last few rounds, that's the goal. Not being the clear premiership standout by Round 10, because we know how that goes, don't we Melbourne fans (*cough* 2022 *cough*).

Richmond also, when they won their 3 flags, in those flag winning seasons they were around 7-4 by round 11, in 1 of those seasons (2019) they lost 3 games in a row by some convincing margins. Lost to North by 37, lost to Geelong by 67 and lost to Adelaide by 33. They went on to win the flag convincingly. By round 11, Geelong last year were also 7-4 and went on to win the flag convincingly. Some demonlanders hit the panic button wayyy too early. Plenty of games to go.

9 hours ago, layzie said:

People should ease off the postgame thread venting. If it entertains you then I'm glad because at least you're getting something out of today. I'm not gonna apologise for ranting a bit in what should be a safe haven. You're not losing time or money over it.

Nor should you have to apologise. You have every right to vent and show frustration after a loss.

The ones telling you otherwise can seriously get in the bin. If you're calling it as you see it then you shouldn't be made to feel like a negative nancy.

8 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

It’s funny you say that Layz. As a more optimistic supporter I feel like a lot of fans on here love a loss - so they can have a real crack at the club. We all bring our own biases I guess. In the end we all just want success.

Nah I'm with @Jaded No More. This is absolutely a [censored] take. You genuinely think supporters actually take a kick out of losing? C'mon mate.

When you're investing money into the club it shows a great level of passion, loyalty and support for this great club.

People should be allowe to express their frustration and disappointment after every loss without having guys like you accusing the same blokes of getting a kick out of a loss. 

I take no joy or pride in any loss. A loss is a loss, it [censored] sucks on all levels.