POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Essendon

[loges 6,767]

For a long time we have struggled when we are the hunted, our record when favourite has often seen us come undone. We should hunt whoever we are playing because at times we really suck when go into a game as favourites.

[IRW 1,387]

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Oh I've been in some barney's here IRW, I can assure you

Going right back to when I dared to question the untouchable Neeld.  I swear he was miles more protected than Goodwin.  Which makes no sense

See you on the cycling thread

Gracious me when was Neeld protected.

I was slow to realise how awful he was but that was because it seemed impossible to be do useless that there must have been a plan.

But protected?

Maybe at Ology we just thought everything was rotten at that time

Cheers

[IRW 1,387]

51 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Simple, we don’t complain in the presser like Scotty the sook 

I thought Scott's call was appropriate.

I can hear the squeals from the likes of you starting up when Max is merely double teamed and I would expect any coach to go hard publicly for his players.

Goodwin is characterless zero with even less subtlety or press nous

[Macca 16,970]

8 minutes ago, IRW said:

Gracious me when was Neeld protected.

I was slow to realise how awful he was but that was because it seemed impossible to be do useless that there must have been a plan.

But protected?

Maybe at Ology we just thought everything was rotten at that time

Cheers

Well it was different here and you're right, I would read 'ology during that time* and the contrast was stark

At one stage 97% in a poll here wanted Neeld to stay on and see out at least his 2nd year.  Good old hardnut & tonatopia copped a pasting but they were on the money early

Mind you, the whole club was a complete mess so to blame one person only was crazy-talk

Anyway, it's all just pub-type debates and arguments anyway and entirely harmless.  It's just opinions, we effect nothing

Like I've always said ... he/she who holds a grudge, suffers most

Amstel Gold race for the Women & Men on Viceland tonight for those interested ... another 1-day classic in the lead up to the Grand Tours

 

*Joined 'ology for the last few months of it's existence and glad I did. 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

15 minutes ago, IRW said:

I thought Scott's call was appropriate.

I can hear the squeals from the likes of you starting up when Max is merely double teamed and I would expect any coach to go hard publicly for his players.

Goodwin is characterless zero with even less subtlety or press nous

You couldn’t have missed the point anymore than you just have. 

[Deenooos_ 647]

Are we loading already ? lol

No but in all honesty yesterday's game looked anything but what a flag favourite would do. Yes Essendon is sitting in the top 2 but 3 of their 4 wins came against lower opponents. They may finish between 7-11 but this should have been a comfortable win. The lack of effort was concerning and we can't afford this anymore this season.

I really hope that the lack of leadership onfield contributed to not being able to snap out of it and the likes of Lever and Gawn returning will prevent and fuel a response mid game if we were to be in this position again.

We have the talent, the gameplan is good. I don't believe we have a forward line problem at all. We are the highest scoring team this season! What we saw yesterday was rather a lack of application of our gameplan/system due to almost every player being off their game.

They need to pull their head in for the Richmond game but I think we'll be 7-2 by the end of round 9.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Deenooos_

[wonnabeeri 275]

10 hours ago, loges said:

Yes he should be dropped but do you really need the vitriol 

Vitriol? Or facts?

[demon3165 2,718]

51 minutes ago, IRW said:

Gracious me when was Neeld protected.

I was slow to realise how awful he was but that was because it seemed impossible to be do useless that there must have been a plan.

But protected?

Maybe at Ology we just thought everything was rotten at that time

Cheers

Neeld like Noble walked into a mess of clubs, players ran the coach and players moaned to board members no doubt Neeld has his problems but when the board could not see the problems it just went down hill from there, gee didn't the great Gary Lyon have a hand in his appointment? 

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

On First Crack, they showed some vision of Grundy’s defensive running against Draper. It was only one example, but it wasn’t pretty. I think we forget how good Gawn’s two way running is. If it was just Gawn playing yesterday, there’s no way Draper and Phillips kick 5 between them.

[jnrmac 20,065]

24 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

On First Crack, they showed some vision of Grundy’s defensive running against Draper. It was only one example, but it wasn’t pretty. I think we forget how good Gawn’s two way running is. If it was just Gawn playing yesterday, there’s no way Draper and Phillips kick 5 between them.

Grundy looked shattered at times. And twice when he ran into the fwd line he refused to hit up loose men and cost us goals. I get he was under pressure - particularly when his opponents were scoring - but he had a shocker.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

57 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

On First Crack, they showed some vision of Grundy’s defensive running against Draper. It was only one example, but it wasn’t pretty. I think we forget how good Gawn’s two way running is. If it was just Gawn playing yesterday, there’s no way Draper and Phillips kick 5 between them.

Gawns presence probably saves 3-4 goals from these two. Lever probably kills another 3-4 goals and there we have a scrappy win. Don’t forget that they were short a 2m Peter, that changes our defensive setup.  

Also Grundy needs more time to rebuild his tank. I’d expect him to hit his prime post bye but even then it’ll take this season and another to get back to his full capability. 

Our best footy wins that game by 10 goals. Pies were off today as well and managed to scrape together a win without similar key payers against a severely undermanned by desperate St Kilda outfit.

 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

3 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Gawns presence probably saves 3-4 goals from these two. Lever probably kills another 3-4 goals and there we have a scrappy win. Don’t forget that they were short a 2m Peter, that changes our defensive setup.  

Also Grundy needs more time to rebuild his tank. I’d expect him to hit his prime post bye but even then it’ll take this season and another to get back to his full capability. 

Our best footy wins that game by 10 goals. Pies were off today as well and managed to scrape together a win without similar key payers against a severely undermanned by desperate St Kilda outfit.

I posted earlier that I think we assume that because we beat Sydney without Gawn that we can/will beat anyone without him.

Reality is that the Sydney win was exceptional from us but the challenge of winning games without him in the side is a big one, and it is exacerbated by a player like Lever missing as well.

Agree re: Grundy. His aerobic fitness just isn't there right now. Can get away with it when the opposition has one ruckman (e.g. Sydney and West Coast) but against two, he can't keep up as they both get more rest than he does. This week Richmond have 0 ruckmen, so it shouldn't be as big an issue for us.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I posted earlier that I think we assume that because we beat Sydney without Gawn that we can/will beat anyone without him.

Reality is that the Sydney win was exceptional from us but the challenge of winning games without him in the side is a big one, and it is exacerbated by a player like Lever missing as well.

Agree re: Grundy. His aerobic fitness just isn't there right now. Can get away with it when the opposition has one ruckman (e.g. Sydney and West Coast) but against two, he can't keep up as they both get more rest than he does. This week Richmond have 0 ruckmen, so it shouldn't be as big an issue for us.

Let’s hope so. We need to bank a 5+ win streak something chronic. 

[IRW 1,387]

10 hours ago, demon3165 said:

Neeld like Noble walked into a mess of clubs, players ran the coach and players moaned to board members no doubt Neeld has his problems but when the board could not see the problems it just went down hill from there, gee didn't the great Gary Lyon have a hand in his appointment? 

The only thing G.Lyon got right was acknowledging he got it wrong and wouldn't be involved in any future choices

[layzie 33,805]

11 hours ago, IRW said:

Gracious me when was Neeld protected.

I was slow to realise how awful he was but that was because it seemed impossible to be do useless that there must have been a plan.

But protected?

Maybe at Ology we just thought everything was rotten at that time

Cheers

We did, even paper clips annoyed us. 

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

It's taken until Monday morning for me to even think about posting anything. 

All I have to say is that I was ok to give them a mulligan for the Brisbane loss.  There were enough mitigating circumstances around that one.  However to play the way we did against Essendon?  I can't see a reason for it, and in all honesty, it's eroded away some of the very high trust I had built up with them.  We've all become so used to see us play a certain way, and for it to suddenly go missing like that is puzzling to say the least.  It will take a while before the confidence returns to the very high level it was prior to Saturday. 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

13 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Good post but I would argue our problems stem from the midfield. In both the Brisbane and Essendon games we've been flogged in the midfield early.

In the Swans game I think we lost just about every centre clearance in the first but kicked a big score in it but yea they have had their issues.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Our marking or lack of thereof was a huge issue. I think Langers took the most.

Our combo of Lever, Gawn, Bbb , Tmac and May usually dominate.

The first 3 were out and the 2nd two had shockers.

Congrats to Petty who overcame his early fumbling and finished with 7 as well.

[old dee 23,791]

The bombers actually have a quite good list the thing that has been holding them back is internal politics.

Now they have a good coach who out smarted us last weekend. They will play finals this year. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

The bombers actually have a quite good list the thing that has been holding them back is internal politics.

Now they have a good coach who out smarted us last weekend. They will play finals this year. 

Same coach has out smarted us in most games OD.

They way he signed after the siren was almost like... "pretty straight forward fellas, nice work".

Obviously there's much more to it in the lead up and on game day than that...but you get my drift.

[old dee 23,791]

6 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Same coach has out smarted us in most games OD.

They way he signed after the siren was almost like... "pretty straight forward fellas, nice work".

Obviously there's much more to it in the lead up and on game day than that...but you get my drift.

We had also been interstate 3 of the last 4 weeks, bombers Saturday was their first game away from Melbourne in that same period. 

[layzie 33,805]

1 hour ago, Vipercrunch said:

It's taken until Monday morning for me to even think about posting anything. 

All I have to say is that I was ok to give them a mulligan for the Brisbane loss.  There were enough mitigating circumstances around that one.  However to play the way we did against Essendon?  I can't see a reason for it, and in all honesty, it's eroded away some of the very high trust I had built up with them.  We've all become so used to see us play a certain way, and for it to suddenly go missing like that is puzzling to say the least.  It will take a while before the confidence returns to the very high level it was prior to Saturday. 

I did the same, really wanted to let it sit for a bit and get some clarity. You have not only hit the nail on the head but built a house with the remaining nails. 

That Brisbane game was the definition of a one-off as we will never be monstered like that in contested ball. This game however took things to a new level. I’m a realistic football fan, I don’t yell ‘pick the ball up’ at games and then get really annoyed at players when they don’t. It’s a two team sport after all but what I can’t cop is having our fortress attacked and destroyed at our most strongest points. To be 35 – 7 in the possession count 5 mins in was very telling, to be smashed in centre clearances early was also telling, but the icing on the cake was to concede 15 marks inside defensive 50 mostly directly in front. That is the point you throw your hands up and say “well, they got us”. Lever out definitely hurt of course as he’s so often the guy coming over the top and killing the contest but come on, we should have had enough to deal with their talls. 

We really missed Gawn’s ability to drop back and influence as well and this is where I look squarely at Brodie Grundy and say “Mate, you may be getting beat in the ruck right now but you can still influence the game in other ways." Get on your bike and push back hard to try and get a spoil, a physical body on a Bombers forward, something, anything! It was so obvious we were getting outmarked 1 v 1 in that backline, we really needed some help. To be fair no Hibbo and a wounded Petty didn’t help either as they can cut across and do this but we just needed the big man getting back more. 

I said this earlier but when the ball was in the air and the pack formed, we seemed to setup with someone front and square and a couple on either side ready to takeway and move the ball quickly forward. Rarely we had someone to the back of the contest and the number of times Essendon got a long kick out of the 50 up to the wing or centre it would come off hands to the back and perfectly placed for a Bomber to take it then scrap kick it into 50 where we got outmarked all the time. I found this happened in the Brisbane game for nearly every first quarter goal. I don’t know if it’s just coincidence but I’ve said before there are things about our defensive approach and what got us here that I don’t want to lose completely. Which kind of leads me into the next point.

The Bombers played with such speed and dare in the first half, the game was not really played in close at all and there were very few stoppages. It’s time like this where I’d like to slow the game down a bit, force stoppages and let our contested bulls get to work. The rain could have really helped us get back into it, as the 2nd half started I thought that maybe Essendon could struggle because they won’t be able to get as much speed on it and it will be harder to bomb in long to their tall timber. If we could just get that first goal of the second half we may well be able to scrap back into it and get it on our terms. 

No, we simply weren’t up for the challenge. EFC came out and went bang, bang, bang with 3 straight and the game was dead. Forget what happened previously, this was the most disappointing moment of the game for me. After this there was this feeling of cue in the rack with 15 mins left in the 3rd quarter? I was seeing JVR down back, Fritsch up the ground, the kind of moves you see when we’re 50 points down. We turned our heels up.

It’s such a cliché in AFL footy to say another team wanted it more but this is exactly what happened. We started off looking a bit cruisey and casual, trying some fancy stuff and not always thinking team first while Essendon player were cracking in 110% efforts, tackling to hurt and always providing an option for a handball. In a lot of ways we were beaten at our own game and anyone still saying Essendon will do nothing this year you may be right but don’t be surprised if this is a platform for them to build on this year. For Melbourne this sets us back a little, while nothing fatal we had some weaknesses laid bare and there to be exploited. We were outcoached and their selections paid off big time. It’s extremely unsettling to see this lack of effort in Round 5, we saw the response after Brisbane but the one thing you want each week is effort and I hope this isn’t going to be a team that thinks they can flick the switch and get the job done as opposed to consistent intensity. 

Long way to go but it’s a more level playing field than we think sometimes. We don’t have a divine right to beat a team on a given day and if you’re 5% off you likely get done. Bit nervy for the ANZAC eve game now as we run into a Richmond side with two losses on the bounce and something to prove. Would have been much nicer to go into it off a win but that’s the way it is. 
 

Edited April 17, 2023 by layzie

[dazzledavey36 54,944]

42 minutes ago, old dee said:

The bombers actually have a quite good list the thing that has been holding them back is internal politics.

Now they have a good coach who out smarted us last weekend. They will play finals this year. 

There's still internal politics. There's the whole Josh Mahoney and Adrian Dodoro tension that's still evident within the inner circles of the club.

But yes, an experienced coaching head thats been in the chair before is paying off for them.

What's also evident this year is that there are simply no easy beats. Just have to respect each club we come up against and I think the weekend showed the players mentality wasn't there from the start.

People are kidding themselves if they think Richmond are easy beats. Any time you come up against a Damien Hardwick coached club will always be a challenge. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

25 minutes ago, old dee said:

We had also been interstate 3 of the last 4 weeks, bombers Saturday was their first game away from Melbourne in that same period. 

Yes good point.

I had a vivid dream about 5/6 years ago that we played off against this mob in a GF.

Game up for grabs with 5 minutes to go.

Wondering if it will happen (in my lifetime haha).

Something i thought was beyond the realm of 'possible' 5 years back (or thereabouts).  I laughed it off at the time as complete fantasy and every year since.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

There's still internal politics. There's the whole Josh Mahoney and Adrian Dodoro tension that's still evident within the inner circles of the club.

But yes, an experienced coaching head thats been in the chair before is paying off for them.

What's also evident this year is that there are simply no easy beats. Just have to respect each club we come up against and I think the weekend showed the players mentality wasn't there from the start.

People are kidding themselves if they think Richmond are easy beats. Any time you come up against a Damien Hardwick coached club will always be a challenge. 

100% Dazzle.  The Toiges may not have a very full list and bit of an ageing one but they'll always be at the contest giving it eveything and they still have the experience to get a job done on a good day.

We also arent the same team unless all of Max, May & Lever are in.

Any one (or more) of those missing and we look gettable.

The Cats were considered over the hill by many as well and while still a VG team, they probably wouldn't actually get the silver for a while.

I was pretty much in that camp after 2021 although i still had an open mind that in any sport, anything's possible and to never / ever underestimate an opponent. Do so at your peril.

A mere 5% off or so at this level (in a team sense) you are a chance to lose to most teams imv unless they're also having an off day.