2 minutes ago, layzie said:

That I agree with. This mid group needs something a bit extra to go the next step and it is probably that Cripps type that will win a ball when it's there to be won in a crucial moment.

My original point is that I'd find it hard to see them drop off completely and miss finals by a long shot due to this midfield, it still has a fair bit going for it and also a backline that will keep them in games. I don't see top 4 though.

I agree.

When I say I think they might struggle, I didn't mean to say they would be hopeless.

I would be very surprised if they don't make the 8 - they are well coached, were super fit last year and have quality players. 

What I meant to say is they will struggle to make top 4 and I don't think they're a premiership contender. 

And not just because they lack a cripps or tracc. Their forward line also lacks punch.

By the by, I predicted preseason last year that freo would be the bolter. I thought they would finish top 4.

So I've got no bias against them as such.

I just think they didn't address their biggest needs in the trade period.

And i agree with Lampers analysis of their trade period - a net loss.

Most concerning for them, given their forward line was already a worry, is they didn't replace lobb with an equivalent player.

Lobb is inconsitent, but when on he kicks goals. But even when not kicking goals, like tmac is for us, he was super important structurally for freo. Took the best key defender, ran up and down the wing to provide a marking option and if he couldn't mark brought the ball to ground -  which meant their small forwards (which is a strength of theirs) could go to work.

Jackson will provide some of that, but as dees fans know he is not a natural forward. I have little doubt he will improve his forward craft. But he won't be at lobb's level this season.

10 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

They also have some exciting depth coming through in this department. 

Neil Erasmus 190cm big bodied inside mid. Plays similar to Elliot Yeo.

Nathan O' Driscoll 188cm midfielder who also plays half back if need.

Matthew Johnson 192cm tall inside/outside midfielder who's very similar to David Mundy.

That augurs well for their future, assuming of course one of those players becomes an elite mid.

But it won't help them much this season. 

But perhaps they are prepared to plautue for a year - which would not be unreasonable given their investment in Jackson and the fact they have a young list.

17 minutes ago, binman said:

I agree.

When I say I think they might struggle, I didn't mean to say they would be hopeless.

I would be very surprised if they don't make the 8 - they are well coached, were super fit last year and have quality players. 

What I meant to say is they will struggle to make top 4 and I don't think they're a premiership contender. 

And not just because they lack a cripps or tracc. Their forward line also lacks punch.

By the by, I predicted preseason last year that freo would be the bolter. I thought they would finish top 4.

So I've got no bias against them as such.

I just think they didn't address their biggest needs in the trade period.

And i agree with Lampers analysis of their trade period - a net loss.

Most concerning for them, given their forward line was already a worry, is they didn't replace lobb with an equivalent player.

Lobb is inconsitent, but when on he kicks goals. But even when not kicking goals, like tmac is for us, he was super important structurally for freo. Took the best key defender, ran up and down the wing to provide a marking option and if he couldn't mark brought the ball to ground -  which meant their small forwards (which is a strength of theirs) could go to work.

Jackson will provide some of that, but as dees fans know he is not a natural forward. I have little doubt he will improve his forward craft. But he won't be at lobb's level this season.

Of course, I was just re-iterating my point for the general public 🙂

There's a lot of question marks about this forward line and I couldn't agree more on Lobb. He had threats that you still had to prepare for even when not firing. 

Gonzo mentioned us in 2019 and it does feel very similar in terms of list changes and pinning hopes on speculative key forwards.

1 hour ago, binman said:

Lack an ELITE big bodied midfielder.

We have two.

Brodie has played 49 games, half of those at a dysfunctional rabble. If he can continue his trajectory, he's well on his way to being elite. 

Avg. 27 touches last year, same scoring as Clarry (0.2 goals, 0.3 behinds), & same number of tackles. CP/UP ratio (40/60) needs improving if he's to be an elite contested player in the comp (Clarry averaged about 60/40), as does clearances (avg.6 compared to clarry of 9). 5 score involvements per game on average (Clarry 7).

Clarry an extremely high benchmark here...Brodie's stats are very similiar, sometimes exceeding Ollie Wines' stats from last year. An ex-brownlow medallist. 

If we go back to Clarry's 2nd season as a point of comparison given games played, Brodie's stats are superior. The kid can play, don't sleep on him. 

Re. us having two - yes we are blessed. + Viney who plays big bodied even though he's not. Not many teams are blessed with what we have in the middle. Not sure why that diminishes Freo or why its even a valid point of comparison. Brisbane, Collingwood, Sydney, Geelong - none of them quite have a contested midfield like ours and all finished above us.    

4 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Brodie has played 49 games, half of those at a dysfunctional rabble. If he can continue his trajectory, he's well on his way to being elite. 

Avg. 27 touches last year, same scoring as Clarry (0.2 goals, 0.3 behinds), & same number of tackles. CP/UP ratio (40/60) needs improving if he's to be an elite contested player in the comp (Clarry averaged about 60/40), as does clearances (avg.6 compared to clarry of 9). 5 score involvements per game on average (Clarry 7).

Clarry an extremely high benchmark here...Brodie's stats are very similiar, sometimes exceeding Ollie Wines' stats from last year. An ex-brownlow medallist. 

If we go back to Clarry's 2nd season as a point of comparison given games played, Brodie's stats are superior. The kid can play, don't sleep on him. 

Re. us having two - yes we are blessed. + Viney who plays big bodied even though he's not. Not many teams are blessed with what we have in the middle. Not sure why that diminishes Freo or why it’s even a valid point of comparison. Brisbane, Collingwood, Sydney, Geelong - none of them quite have a contested midfield like ours and all finished above us.    

Lol Brodie was drafted the year after Clarry, why would we compare Brodie’s last year to Clarry’s 2nd season? 

 

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Brodie has played 49 games, half of those at a dysfunctional rabble. If he can continue his trajectory, he's well on his way to being elite. 

Avg. 27 touches last year, same scoring as Clarry (0.2 goals, 0.3 behinds), & same number of tackles. CP/UP ratio (40/60) needs improving if he's to be an elite contested player in the comp (Clarry averaged about 60/40), as does clearances (avg.6 compared to clarry of 9). 5 score involvements per game on average (Clarry 7).

Clarry an extremely high benchmark here...Brodie's stats are very similiar, sometimes exceeding Ollie Wines' stats from last year. An ex-brownlow medallist. 

If we go back to Clarry's 2nd season as a point of comparison given games played, Brodie's stats are superior. The kid can play, don't sleep on him. 

Re. us having two - yes we are blessed. + Viney who plays big bodied even though he's not. Not many teams are blessed with what we have in the middle. Not sure why that diminishes Freo or why its even a valid point of comparison. Brisbane, Collingwood, Sydney, Geelong - none of them quite have a contested midfield like ours and all finished above us.    

Fair points.

But he ain't AA elite.

Look at the seven grand final winners since 2016.

Every premier, with the exception of West Coast, had AA big bodied mids.

The dogs had bont.

The tigers had dusty in his pomp. And cotchin for good measure.

The Eagles didn't have an AA big mid, but Shuey, who won the Norm Smith, made the squad twice. And Sheed - also six foot plus, was a pretty handy back up.

We had tracc and clarry.

And the cats had Selwood and Dangerfield.

So recent history suggests to win a flag team need at least one, preferably two elite big mids (ie heavy, strong and at least six foot).

Brodie might get there - though personally I don't think so. But he's not there yet.

5 hours ago, godees said:

Lol Brodie was drafted the year after Clarry, why would we compare Brodie’s last year to Clarry’s 2nd season? 

 

'Lol' - Hes played 49 games, 24 last year. 

Ergo, it was effectively - at least in terms of experience - his 2nd year when compared to Clarry who played almost full seasons from his very first year after being drafted. 

Yes last year he had the benefit of being older, fitter and probably stronger than Clarry was during his 2nd season; but games played is the only reasonable benchmark.  

Those details riding sons of guns had a decent win. Forward line still questionable though

 

48 minutes ago, adonski said:

 

On 3/2/2023 at 4:30 PM, fr_ap said:

'Lol' - Hes played 49 games, 24 last year. 

Ergo, it was effectively - at least in terms of experience - his 2nd year when compared to Clarry who played almost full seasons from his very first year after being drafted. 

Yes last year he had the benefit of being older, fitter and probably stronger than Clarry was during his 2nd season; but games played is the only reasonable benchmark.  

Sorry, that is just not true. Games played is certainly a strong factor but so is age and number of years in an elite system. Brodie is a solid mid, no doubt and I think he still has a fair bit of upside but comparing him to Clarrie is laughable

On 3/1/2023 at 12:26 PM, Lucifers Hero said:

They are expecting O'Meara to be the new Mundy and will probably be better.

Wot? O'Meare can only dream of emulating Mundy. Close to the most overhyped/overrated player of the last 10 years. Never won and B&F, never an AA, averages about five BL votes a season and I don't remember him every turning a game. Good ordinary player at best. 

I reckon Freo drop away and just miss the 8

 

14 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Wot? O'Meare can only dream of emulating Mundy. Close to the most overhyped/overrated player of the last 10 years. Never won and B&F, never an AA, averages about five BL votes a season and I don't remember him every turning a game. Good ordinary player at best. 

i wasn't at all suggesting that O'Meare emulate Mundy or Mundy's achievments.  I was talking about game day roles.  O'Meara is an inside player and extractor as Mundy was and that is what Freo will expect of hiim.

3 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

i wasn't at all suggesting that O'Meare emulate Mundy or Mundy's achievments.  I was talking about game day roles.  O'Meara is an inside player and extractor as Mundy was and that is what Freo will expect of hiim.

I haven't taken any notice of the Hawks over the last few years but didn't see O'Meara as an inside extractor in the past.

Maybe he's put this into his game to make up for what injury has taken away???

I'd like to know where the extra 50 goals this year are going to come from?

Lobb out, Logue out & Acers out.

Luke isn't going to kick 50. 

 

Edited March 12, 20232 yr by Steamin Demon

3 hours ago, rjay said:

I haven't taken any notice of the Hawks over the last few years but didn't see O'Meara as an inside extractor in the past.

Maybe he's put this into his game to make up for what injury has taken away???

Mitchell did most of the heavy lifting at the Hawks.  With Mundy gone and Fyfe in the fwd line, O'Meara will be doing a lot more of the heavy lifting at Freo.  While excellent players most of the other midfields are still very young and O'Meara can 'protect' them a bit as Mundy did.

1 hour ago, Steamin Demon said:

I'd like to know where the extra 50 goals this year are going to come from?

Lobb out, Logue out & Acers out.

Luke isn't going to kick 50. 

 

They'll be expecting Jye Amiss to step up I assume

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Mitchell did most of the heavy lifting at the Hawks.  With Mundy gone and Fyfe in the fwd line, O'Meara will be doing a lot more of the heavy lifting at Freo.  While excellent players most of the other midfields are still very young and O'Meara can 'protect' them a bit as Mundy did.

I guess my question is...has he done anything in his career to show he's capable of doing the heavy lifting?

Just caught myself reading an article on SEN about "why the Dockers will make the eight".
I got halfway before I thought to myself, this is really sick stuff your doing here illbarto.
Could be a tough year for the footy tipping with the Pies and the Purples losing every weekend.

 

Ride, ride, ride!

20 hours ago, rjay said:

I haven't taken any notice of the Hawks over the last few years but didn't see O'Meara as an inside extractor in the past.

Maybe he's put this into his game to make up for what injury has taken away???

I haven't watched O'meara's career very much.  I don't put a lot of store in stats but he has the same average clearances as Tom Mitchell and Jack Viney.  Does well on contested possessions comparisons with them.

He has generally been seen as an inside midfielder.  Certainly, Freo are looking for O'Meara to play that inside role and use his leadership skills and experience as Mundy did especially when Fyfe wan't there.  Whether he succeeds they will find out soon enough but it is not a new role for him. 

He may not be seen as 'elite' like Petracca, Oliver, Neale, Fyfe etc but he is certainly well above average.  There midfield will still be strong.

 

Having said that I still expect them to slide (hopefully out of the 8) as I see cohesion and synergy a real challenge for them with all the list and positional changes.

Edited March 12, 20232 yr by Lucifers Hero

The doom hopers for the Dockers may be disappointed in round one, given the Saints injuries.

23 minutes ago, Redleg said:

The doom hopers for the Dockers may be disappointed in round one, given the Saints injuries.

Let's hope Ross goes all out defence...

Can't get around St Kilda's list at all this year. It's just bang average and really unbalanced. Think the Dockere start 1-0 pretty easy.

Edited March 13, 20232 yr by layzie