Dynamic Ruck Duo Max & Brodie

[D4Life 2,547]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:58 PM, monoccular said:

"...would like to see it squared up to CHF and then kicked to a leading forward...."

kicking to a leading forward turned the 2021 GF when we were starting to look done, but hasn't been repeated since.

Agree and how fast the ball went into the forward line in the GF from 19 point down.

Just became too slow going forward in 2022!

[DeeMee 877]

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

He’s amphibious!

And yet his near drowning pool experience. Perhaps he should swim left handed.

[David-Demon 568]

On 11/8/2022 at 5:41 AM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

The opposition have enough trouble kicking it to Max when he's the main ruck, if he can have even more licence to drop back with Brodie as the main ruck, that could make things very difficult for them.  Likewise, the unpredictability of using Max as a wepon forward or back while still having a dominant ruck in Grundy could provide some real headaches.  Luke wasn't exactly that much of a contributor in alot of games this season, particularly the longer it wore on.

That is because Luke had already made up his mind to leave, I think that was around mid season. Or was he coached to leave ?

[58er 6,570]

18 hours ago, David-Demon said:

That is because Luke had already made up his mind to leave, I think that was around mid season. Or was he coached to leave ?

Please explain your "coach to leave" comment DD. I have  no way of understanding your comment as truthful sensible or smart. 

[picket fence 17,539]

On 11/9/2022 at 12:06 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

It's a strange concept to be taking inspiration from a a club that was ranked 18th for ruck combination this year..

Not only that, Blicavs is incredibly versatile that he can play in all range of positions including as a midfielder target as we saw this year, whereas Grundy and Gawn are both pure ruckman. 

As @Lucifers Hero said, I hope we do have some better ideas floating around.

What would you like to see Dazzle?

[drdrake 3,187]

21 hours ago, David-Demon said:

That is because Luke had already made up his mind to leave, I think that was around mid season. Or was he coached to leave ?

No question he made his mind up at some stage through the year.  I don't think he was every coached to leave, in fact he was given a lot more ruck time in the back half of the year.  Max was injured and struggled after queens birthday, Luke was having little impact as a forward mainly due to Tmac being injured and B Brown completely out of form, Luke couldn't be that third tall option.

With Grundy and Max, I think the club is thinking we might only get 15 games home and away where they both play, we can rest one knowing the other can have the same impact. We can manage the 2 to ensure they are flying together for finals, I reckon that was the reference to Geelong, player management.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,943]

Can't get around the paywall but the Herald Sun alluded to the fact that it would be utter stupidity if Gawn plays primarily as a forward this year with Grundy in the side.

One of the key advantages of this ruck duo is the ability to rest Gawn (who's no spring chicken) throughout the season and have him absolutely cherry ripe for September. I hate using injuries as an excuse as it discredits the opposition but after re-watching the Brisbane final, the big man could hardly jog and was so far below his best that night (and got no help from the other bloke who's no longer with us).

We have a WA into SA game in rounds 4-5. We have a Monday into Saturday game in rounds 6 and 7, and some ostensibly easier late season games against Adeaide, North and Hawthorn where Gawn could be rested and Grundy can shoulder more of the ruck load.

I want to this ruck duo working to perfection in September.

[DeeZone 10,146]

21 hours ago, David-Demon said:

That is because Luke had already made up his mind to leave, I think that was around mid season. Or was he coached to leave ?

I think that Luke had already left when he failed to extend his contract when Trent Rivers and Kozzie extended theirs.!!!

[DeeZone 10,146]

Personally I can’t wait to see big Max and Brodie dominating the ruck duels and providing AA relief if either is injured or sore. Our midfielders should get first look in majority of cases, something we are not used to.!!!

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,943]

22 hours ago, David-Demon said:

Or was he coached to leave ?

Unless we win the next two flags and Grundy is a key reason behind those flags, I'm sure Goodwin and Co first choice was to have kept Jackson (rather than trade in Grundy) due to the long term proposition of taking over Gawn.

I thought Jackson was largely poor last year, but it was only his third year, and I still expect him to be a consistent top 30-50 player in the AFL in the peak of his career.

[D4Life 2,547]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Unless we win the next two flags and Grundy is a key reason behind those flags, I'm sure Goodwin and Co first choice was to have kept Jackson (rather than trade in Grundy) due to the long term proposition of taking over Gawn.

I thought Jackson was largely poor last year, but it was only his third year, and I still expect him to be a consistent top 30-50 player in the AFL in the peak of his career.

Agree Jackson was average and felt like his 2nd half of the season was poor, not sure if he was carrying an injury. I think Grundy will be a major upgrade on the output we got from Jackson last year. 
The Demons now have the best two ruckman in the comp or at worst 2 of best 3/4 rucks.

[dazzledavey36 55,362]

8 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Agree Jackson was average and felt like his 2nd half of the season was poor, not sure if he was carrying an injury. I think Grundy will be a major upgrade on the output we got from Jackson last year. 
The Demons now have the best two ruckman in the comp or at worst 2 of best 3/4 rucks.

I would like to think he was carrying an injury because those two finals game were some of the most softest and pathetic efforts I've seen from a big man.

He was incredibly disappointing. 

 

[58er 6,570]

1 hour ago, DeeZone said:

I think that Luke had already left when he failed to extend his contract when Trent Rivers and Kozzie extended theirs.!!!

Agree DZ I always felt that was a hit in the head between our eyes he did only a ONE year extension. No problems then with Riv Kossie and of course JVR who looks totally embraced by his time at the Dees. 
I can't wait till hopefully Round1  to see JVR Brodie Lachie and if  Schache makes the team it will be some opening. 

Dogs have similar new recruits in Robb Jones and Sauce Baker who I hope plays but don't think he will.! So it's a big test for both teams with Sean Darcy to continue his career in the backline most likely. 

This' continued rivalry keeps on giving so 50,000 plus at the G is the minimum that night!! 
 

Bring  it on  !!! 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:59 AM, Pates said:

I gotta say I’m hoping that when May is kicking in if they are both out there and in position to be there let’s get them on opposite HB pockets to reduce the predictability of our kick ins. Fair dinkum I reckon it was one of our biggest failings through the year and most importantly the finals series. 

Nullifying Max from taking contested marks went a very long way towards teams having repeated entries. 

I actually think Grundy could work as a great pick up IF USED CORRECTLY. 

It’s not rocket science right. Keep ‘em guessing. The moment we see the oppo setup for one side we kick to the other.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

Firstly it will take Jackson some time to be an effective participant wherever he goes and i'm taking into consideration his shin injury.

Secondly he will need to realize his protection around the ground strategy.

Third, the first part of the season will have him identified as a prime target of nullification and Max aint there...

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,890]

3 hours ago, willmoy said:

Firstly it will take Jackson some time to be an effective participant wherever he goes and i'm taking into consideration his shin injury.

Secondly he will need to realize his protection around the ground strategy.

Third, the first part of the season will have him identified as a prime target of nullification and Max aint there...

I feel like this is a key issue, as @Pates also pointed out, having both Max and Brodie in positions able to receive at kick-ins would be a big advantage.

I recall a game at the Gabba in 2020 against Brisbane (that we should have won, but didn't), when big Maxy was being repeatedly blatantly and crudely shepherded out of running back to position himself for kick-ins by Charlie Cameron.  I'm sure it was a premeditated deliberate coaching tactic by Fagan, well executed by Cameron and it was quite effective at mitigating Max's output at kick-ins in particular and to some extent generally around the ground.

Much harder to put work into two genuine marking options like this.  I'm also not sure that Jackso was subjected to anything like the same level of oppisition attention, somewhat playing second fiddle to Gawn, who in my view would still have been viewed as the main threat.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,890]

8 hours ago, D4Life said:

I think Grundy will be a major upgrade on the output we got from Jackson last year. 
The Demons now have the best two ruckman in the comp or at worst 2 of best 3/4 rucks.

Good ruckman can often studdy and decelop a strategy to take an opponent out of the game, and/or match-up better against some opposition better than others.  I agree that having 2 elite rucks would make it so hard for our opposition to take both of them out of the game.  One or both are likely to dominate.

Similarly, it should give our mids some really good unpredictability in terms of setup for the opersition to counter.  Guys like Trac, Clary and Viney don't exactly need much of a head start, so if it gives them additional advantage, we could really tear some teams apart.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

6 hours ago, willmoy said:

Firstly it will take Jackson some time to be an effective participant wherever he goes and i'm taking into consideration his shin injury.

Secondly he will need to realize his protection around the ground strategy.

Third, the first part of the season will have him identified as a prime target of nullification and Max aint there...

Agree, I think this applies to a lessor part with Jackson as a forward as well. TMac was a big loss for his body work and  creation of play for BB and Jako. He does not have this protection at Freeo on any level, except maybe with Fyfe.
 

To maximise his  athleticism he needs space. 

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

Yep, two good strong hard disciplined fit first Rucks back in demand  like the old days.

Does anyone remember if Teasdale played with Nolan or Roberts with someone at Richmond?

[Left Foot Snap 2,460]

5 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I feel like this is a key issue, as @Pates also pointed out, having both Max and Brodie in positions able to receive at kick-ins would be a big advantage.

I recall a game at the Gabba in 2020 against Brisbane (that we should have won, but didn't), when big Maxy was being repeatedly blatantly and crudely shepherded out of running back to position himself for kick-ins by Charlie Cameron.  I'm sure it was a premeditated deliberate coaching tactic by Fagan, well executed by Cameron and it was quite effective at mitigating Max's output at kick-ins in particular and to some extent generally around the ground.

Much harder to put work into two genuine marking options like this.  I'm also not sure that Jackso was subjected to anything like the same level of oppisition attention, somewhat playing second fiddle to Gawn, who in my view would still have been viewed as the main threat.

Is that the game we were up at half time, and Hipwood actually kicked accurately in the second half?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,943]

7 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

Is that the game we were up at half time, and Hipwood actually kicked accurately in the second half?

Or is he referring to the game in 2020 (at Metricon V Lions) where they had that stupid video goal review instead of allowing Lever to quickly take the kick in from full back with less than a minute left, and we had open players down the ground??

[Left Foot Snap 2,460]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Or is he referring to the game in 2020 (at Metricon V Lions) where they had that stupid video goal review instead of allowing Lever to quickly take the kick in from full back with less than a minute left, and we had open players down the ground??

Perhaps so. I think the game I am thinking of was 2019.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,890]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Or is he referring to the game in 2020 (at Metricon V Lions) where they had that stupid video goal review instead of allowing Lever to quickly take the kick in from full back with less than a minute left, and we had open players down the ground??

Yep, that's the one.  Wasn't the only dodgy umpiring anonomly either.  As I suggested the free range that Brisbane were given to harass Max off the ball was a disgrace and they were probably looked after like a protected species.

I actually made the Foxy Footy telecast that game going off my nanna as one of the few Demons supporters they could find in the crowd 😂🤣.

Win that game and we make finals.  Brisbane were decient that year, but we weren't actually that far off the mark either.  If it wasn't games like the Brisbane one and being dealt a rubbish fixture going to Cairns two weeks in a row, we would have made finals and I think we actually could have done better against Richmond than Geelong.  Totally spewing as I would have been able to attend that GF.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,890]

Saw this pop up on my FB feed courtesy of Zero Hanger.  Bodes well for the MFC, particularly considering Grundy only played the 6 games in 2022, otherwise he'd probably be the outright leader and the gap to the rest would be greater, although similar could also be said for Witts who played just the 3 games in 2021.  Also highlights the quality of Witts somewhat as a ruckman and I recall Max publicly rating him highly on numerous occations as someone he finds challenging to play against.

Top 15
Total Hit-Outs Between 2018-2022
3806 Max Gawn
3482 Brodie Grundy
3258 Jarrod Witts
3174 Todd Goldstein
2383 Reilly O'Brien
2174 Sean Darcy
2123 Oscar McInerney
2018 Nic Naitanui
2010 Toby Nankervis
1944 Rhys Stanley
1932 Scott Lycett
1830 Ben McEvoy
1789 Paddy Ryder
1751 Stefan Martin
1684 Rowan Marshall

[Demonland 73,165]

 

Buckley, who coached Grundy from his draft year of 2012 until 2021, pondered just how much cash out of the Dees’ salary cap is going towards the ruck duo. 

“It’s against my philosophy in terms of investing,” Buckley told SEN’s Dwayne’s World. 

“Take Brodie Grundy and Max Gawn out of it, but investing that large a percentage of your cap - I can only assume - into the ruck role. I think the jury is out on what that actually does in a bigger picture.

“If it’s eight or nine per cent of your cap, and it goes there (to two rucks), does it mean you are tight in other parts of the field? Or with other top-end talent in other roles? 

“Personally, I can think you can over-invest in ruckmen. I don’t like the idea of using first-round picks, even though Brodie was, but he was one of three in a row (18, 19 and 20 in the 2012 draft) so that made some sense.”