On 9/20/2022 at 7:55 PM, Demon Dynasty said:

JVR will be in the mix next seaaon but you can't expect him to have a major impact all season, not consistently anyway.  That probably won't happen (if its going to happen) for two to three pre-seasons afterwards.  Unless of course he turns in to an absolute super star within his first season or two (unlikely).

Macca is out for at least 6 months and will he even return at all or get back to anywhere near his 2021 form from there?  Hope so but again can't be certain here.

So IMO BB probably needs to go around once more.  At least early in the season,  and look to support him with JVR,  possibly Macca if he gets back OR one of your options below.

Turner will slot in beautifully at some point.  However, assuming we don't get Grundy (Lucifer pls make sure of it!!) Max will need some back up but doesn't need to be more than about 20% of the time IMV.  Turner isn't the answer here obviously as he won't be assisting in any ruck duties.

No for various reasons including too valuable as a KF and/or in a HHF role.

This is your man.  As per McCartin this season, Weid is the ideal candidate to swing into Petty's role.  Doesn't like too much contact in a contest?  Can spoil from behind or just coming in from the side peeling off opponents for the assist etc.  Can take a grab.  Same height as Petty plus 2kg.  Turning circle of the Titanic...again defence is the solution here.  Can ruck and not just ruck.  He can hold his own.  And that's all Maxy / Mid Field needs for approx 20% of time.  Maxy takes the Weid (ex Petty role) as a resting (intercept) backman which he has done on prior occasions with a fair amount of success mind you.

Tomo is apparantly exploring alternatives and appears to have lost half a yard and any leaping ability he might have had prior to the knee injury last season.  Can't offer any ruck relief option.

Also can't see him offering ruck relief

Very solid defender, even better as a medium forward IMV.  Too short.  Can't see him in the ruck.

This is a possibility but would still like to see a relief ruck option here.

If we want Petty forward in 2023 and i believe we should see this from here, then the Weid is your man.

Yes most of my opinions are biased due to my "DO NOT GET GRUNDY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" outlook.  But there it is!

You say Macca is a further 6 months away?  On what basis?  No confirmation of a repeat Lisfranc, and due to get metal removed very soon. Unless you know otherwise. 

23 hours ago, CYB said:

JVR needs to be given time to develop as the 3rd tall. Problem is Fritta plays that role. So either JVR has to take the defensive jobs ala Melksham style or we gamble on him as 2nd tall and not expect much for 2 years. 

I’m not sold on Petty as a forward. I think he is a future AA CHB. 

As was Neita.  Pushed forward in desperation when Ox went down and won a bloody Coleman. 

21 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If we can Play BBB sporadically i think we can still get some good games out of him. He was swamped in 2022 once TMac was down. I would definitely give Petty some time forward. He takes Marks regularly 

BBB I don’t think can play 22 games, but 10-12 could still be effective and damaging 

Surely it will sink in sometime that BBB is not a pack marking forward.  FCS the pivotal moment in our first premiership in 57 years was when Harmes took the initiative and did not bomb it to the left pocket, but rather to a leading BBB in the right pocket.  All flowed from that moment. 

27 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Surely it will sink in sometime that BBB is not a pack marking forward.  FCS the pivotal moment in our first premiership in 57 years was when Harmes took the initiative and did not bomb it to the left pocket, but rather to a leading BBB in the right pocket.  All flowed from that moment. 

Wasn't that Fritz? But heh, I've only watched it 500 times and I may have got confused ...

10 hours ago, monoccular said:

You say Macca is a further 6 months away?  On what basis?  No confirmation of a repeat Lisfranc, and due to get metal removed very soon. Unless you know otherwise. 

Assuming worst case. Pure speculation Mono

10 hours ago, monoccular said:

As was Neita.  Pushed forward in desperation when Ox went down and won a bloody Coleman. 

Im not sure why so many followers are fixated that most players should almost always stick to the role they've been very good or better at for most of their or even the early phases of one in the case of Petty.

That's a great example of what can happen when necessity calls and you suddenly find that someone can play a diff position and play possibly as good as they were or even better in the former.  You just need to give it a chance sometimes.

Hec, if it fails after a decent block of say 5 games, you just revert back to what that player was doing previously.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Darcy Moore a great example of that.

Paddy McCartin another great example of one that worked.

Gary Ablett Snr.

Paul Salmon

While not everyone is capable and it won't always work out (Moore) i'm sure there's plenty of other examples in VFL/AFL history where it has.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Demon Dynasty

10 hours ago, monoccular said:

You say Macca is a further 6 months away?  On what basis?  No confirmation of a repeat Lisfranc, and due to get metal removed very soon. Unless you know otherwise. 

As was Neita.  Pushed forward in desperation when Ox went down and won a bloody Coleman. 

Surely it will sink in sometime that BBB is not a pack marking forward.  FCS the pivotal moment in our first premiership in 57 years was when Harmes took the initiative and did not bomb it to the left pocket, but rather to a leading BBB in the right pocket.  All flowed from that moment. 

Actually Harmes kicked it to a leading Fritta not BBB but whatever 

12 hours ago, adonski said:

We'd concede 600 a game too I reckon

Just a slight overreach 😀

In Round 18, Tomlinson played a great game in Petty’s absence but was immediately dropped in Round 19. This was probably the last chance to move Petty or even Tomlinson forward to see what they could do.

If we had more wins in the bank, perhaps Goodwin would have been more adventurous, but he is clearly uncomfortable with too many variables. It’s like he thinks 5 games at a time and can’t bring himself to change much from game-to-game or even quarter-to-quarter.

3 minutes ago, wisedog said:

In Round 18, Tomlinson played a great game in Petty’s absence but was immediately dropped in Round 19. This was probably the last chance to move Petty or even Tomlinson forward to see what they could do.

If we had more wins in the bank, perhaps Goodwin would have been more adventurous, but he is clearly uncomfortable with too many variables. It’s like he thinks 5 games at a time and can’t bring himself to change much from game-to-game or even quarter-to-quarter.

I remember that game. It was like a pre-ACL performance from last year. He would have been shattered to be dropped

On 9/20/2022 at 8:35 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I'm both for and against playing Petty forward in 2023.

Pros are that he a great grab, reader of the play, really attacks the ball, has presence and is a decent kick at goal.

The big con for me is that I think he's our best imeediate and long term backup for Steven May.  As much as our attack was defficient in the back half of 2022 in particular, defense is critical and the consistency and stability we achieved down there in 2021 was one of the keys to achieving premierhip success.  Play around with Petty forward and we may upset our defense too much and become uncompetitive in that area of the ground.

That said, part of me does wounder if we could have taken control of some the games we lost in the second half if either May or Petty were allowed to pinch hit forward for some time earlier in the game and get some more reward for our efforts.

Would also like to see more Joel Smith forward in 2023 (assuming he can remain fit).  I feel his football immaturity / somewhat lack of footy smarts may be too much of a liability down back, but his pace, marking abilities and reasonable goal kicking could make him a satisfactory second key forward.

Yet to see anything like that description from Smith

Seven years in and  he is looking like abust Enjoy the vFL Joel

20 minutes ago, Kent said:

Yet to see anything like that description from Smith

Seven years in and  he is looking like abust Enjoy the vFL Joel

Other than just being nasty, what was your point of making that comment? 
If Joel does not make it, so what, lots don’t. No need for this sort of derision. Joel doesn’t deserve it. None of our players do.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Neil Crompton

Yep. Petty to forward line and Turner to cover down back.

Petty is a competitive beast and exactly what we need as a focal point in our forward line.

Now is the time, and the parallels with David Neitz are uncanny.

I really think it would be the final piece of the jigsaw for us , especially with JVR as support.

5 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Assuming worst case. Pure speculation Mono

Im not sure why so many followers are fixated that most players should almost always stick to the role they've been very good or better at for most of their or even the early phases of one in the case of Petty.

That's a great example of what can happen when necessity calls and you suddenly find that someone can play a diff position and play possibly as good as they were or even better in the former.  You just need to give it a chance sometimes.

Hec, if it fails after a decent block of say 5 games, you just revert back to what that player was doing previously.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Darcy Moore a great example of that.

Paddy McCartin another great example of one that worked.

Gary Ablett Snr.

Paul Salmon

While not everyone is capable and it won't always work out (Moore) i'm sure there's plenty of other examples in VFL/AFL history where it has.

Ray Biffen

14 minutes ago, loges said:

Ray Biffen

Yes!  I think nearing the end of his career as well?  One season or the bulk of one season i believe 

7 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Yes!  I think nearing the end of his career as well?  One season or the bulk of one season i believe 

As we are delving into ancient history, I seem to recall Tassie Johnson - probably the best full back of the golden era af the 50-60s) - played CHF (as well as ruck-rover) a bit late in his career. 

36 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Yes!  I think nearing the end of his career as well?  One season or the bulk of one season i believe 

1976 the year we went agonisingly close to making the finals

4 hours ago, monoccular said:

As we are delving into ancient history, I seem to recall Tassie Johnson - probably the best full back of the golden era af the 50-60s) - played CHF (as well as ruck-rover) a bit late in his career. 

A bit before my time Mono but i'll take your word for it!

4 hours ago, loges said:

1976 the year we went agonisingly close to making the finals

Ah yes..  i was at Pie Park in that last match with bro and recall a two edged sword.  We were happy as we defeated the Pies in the last round under Bobby Skilton, delivering them a rare wooden spoon.

However, i also recall the filth supporters cheering and [censored]-a-hoop that someone beat someone (came up on the scoreboard or they might have had a few radios about) keeping us out of the final 5.  Might have been Saints over the Roy Boys but too long ago for me now.

Geez i hate that mob with a passion.  Them & Hawk suporters originate from the same sewer pipe  i reckon.

Also never forget folks that many  Swanny supporters are a poor man's filth equivalent.  The garbage and trash that comes from their mouths is right up there with the other shonkey clubs of the AFL.  There's nothing humble about many from this mob.  Can't stand em.

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by Demon Dynasty

5 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Ah yes..  i was at Pie Park in that last match with bro and recall a two edged sword.  We were happy as we defeated the Pies in the last round under Bobby Skilton, delivering them a rare wooden spoon.

However, i also recall the filth supporters cheering and [censored]-a-hoop that someone beat someone (came up on the scoreboard or they might have had a few radios about) keeping us out of the final 5.  Might have been Saints over the Roy Boys but too long ago for me now.

Carlton who were on top had to beat Bulldogs who were 5th I think it was, and in their arrogance thought they could win it in the last quarter only to draw and we missed out by 2 points.

16 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Petty is a competitive beast and exactly what we need as a focal point in our forward line.

Now is the time, and the parallels with David Neitz are uncanny.

I really think it would be the final piece of the jigsaw for us , especially with JVR as support.

Absolutely with Tmac doing some heavy lifting high marking and 65/70  crumbs (goals)for the Kossie Chandler world. 

Cameos for Maxy and Brodie as well.!!

Fritta might even top 60 plus with all this talent for the opposition to mind.

A weakness becomes a strength.!

On 9/21/2022 at 10:27 AM, deejammin' said:

The time for this was round 20- finals 2022. If we didn’t play Petty as a permanent forward when we had a misfiring forwardline, TMac injured, BBB sore and out of form, JVR too young, Weideman learning a new role and Tomlinson, Turner and Smith all capable of playing back we’re not doing it next year.

It was a great solution so we could compete short term, that Goodwin was too stubborn for, but long term Petty will be one of the great backs of the modern era and we have time to find some forwardline solutions. As it stands next year we will have TMac, BBB, JVR (bigger and fitter with the confidence of a great VFL season), Weideman, Gawn/Grundy, Fritsch. Then we could bring in Colbert and draft another tall forward, that’s more than enough tall forward options. We need to work on our system and connection or none of those 8 options will work.

If we lose Tomlinson then our KPD cover is thin, Smith is injury prone, Turner young, if we send Weid back we have no guarantees he’ll be capable. Even if the club wants Petty forward one injury to May or Lever and he’s straight back. 

One person in this forward mix we must not underrate snd that is JVR. I am going to watch the video of the Casey Demons GF win again and if he doesn't have about 10/12 touches snd 7/8 don't end up as score involvements I'll be very surprised. 

The truth is he handpassed he tapped in the air and along the ground and he went for his high marks and the ball occasionally ended up in our favour. BUT he had about only 2/3 shots at goal and no goals.

However  in a score of 10.10 .70 his strike rate of 7 score involvements and three shots at goal and the rain snd mud etc. he has played a Tommy Mac role in the VFL at the top old age of 18/19. 

Not in our best six/ seven in the paper but I bet the AFL back room boys and Mark Corrigan are pretty bullish about his future. 

So if JVR rises to The VFL from Round1 2023 he IMO will create  opportunities that only a Tmac does for our forwards and get a modest initial total of goals for himself through his team play and clever 1 % ers BBB and Maxy don't do. 

In other words he will add to Fritta and Kossies  footy smarts as touches fro these 3 forwards mean goals or score involvements you our total. The lad can lead as well which is a bonus. 

Our Forward Cup has gone past half full so let's just see if at some  stage when JVR gets his chance that some of the  above "magic" will start to happen. 

Fifth 2022 ???? 2023 with JVR and Harry Petty forward!!!

18 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Petty is a competitive beast and exactly what we need as a focal point in our forward line.

Now is the time, and the parallels with David Neitz are uncanny.

I really think it would be the final piece of the jigsaw for us , especially with JVR as support.

Yep hopefully if we take any learnings out of this season it is that we can't rely on defence alone to win games. We played the season with Lever/May/Petty in defence and didn't go close to a flag.

We need to capitalise on our forward 50/midfield dominance and moving Petty into attack would be the smartest move.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yep hopefully if we take any learnings out of this season it is that we can't rely on defence alone to win games. We played the season with Lever/May/Petty in defence and didn't go close to a flag.

We need to capitalise on our forward 50/midfield dominance and moving Petty into attack would be the smartest move.

Great summary DrG. 

On 9/22/2022 at 9:12 AM, wisedog said:

In Round 18, Tomlinson played a great game in Petty’s absence but was immediately dropped in Round 19. This was probably the last chance to move Petty or even Tomlinson forward to see what they could do.

If we had more wins in the bank, perhaps Goodwin would have been more adventurous, but he is clearly uncomfortable with too many variables. It’s like he thinks 5 games at a time and can’t bring himself to change much from game-to-game or even quarter-to-quarter.

You make a well made point.

The only thing is he wasn't dropped after round 18. He played the following week against the Dogs in the absence of Lever and was part of a defence that leaked 17 goals. Then he got dropped.

On Petty, I'd like to see him trialed up forward to start the season next year, but mindful that we'll lose his excellent contested and intercept marking down back. Is Turner ready to step up and fill the Petty void, or indeed AFL standard? Or can we bank on J Smith to actually stay on the park and be a staple down back?

 

10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

You make a well made point.

The only thing is he wasn't dropped after round 18. He played the following week against the Dogs in the absence of Lever and was part of a defence that leaked 17 goals. Then he got dropped.

On Petty, I'd like to see him trialed up forward to start the season next year, but mindful that we'll lose his excellent contested and intercept marking down back. Is Turner ready to step up and fill the Petty void, or indeed AFL standard? Or can we bank on J Smith to actually stay on the park and be a staple down back?

Whoops. Yes, you’re right. Lazy journalism on my part.

I still think he may have been one of our better defenders on the day, as I recall thinking he was unlucky to be dropped.

If Tomlinson is traded I reckon you can close this thread...