CHANGES 2022

[adonski 10,901]

23 minutes ago, old dee said:

Howe went to pies to play forward. How did that work out.

He'd get a gig in our forward line 

[layzie 33,022]

We need actual crumbing forwards who understand how to rove a ball off a pack and kick a sausage. 

[1964_2 2,357]

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Sparrow’s not amazing at pressure but on transition he cuts off the corridor with his defensive motor, change of direction and frame. Plus he wins or nullifies contests on the outer ring of contests. His defensive running tops the Telstra tracker each week and highlights why we don’t get opened up in the middle.

He plays a lot of midfield when Petracca takes a centre bounce and goes forward.

Brayshaw’s made our midfield too slow, too ball focussed and hasn’t added any skill. We started playing just like 2018 again. It was worth a try but the Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca midfield has never worked against the best teams. Plus we still have stuff all depth unless we’re planning to draft the Casey bash brothers in Mitch White and Jimmy Munro.

So we have seen Brayshaw play as a  Wing, HBF, and an inside mid. Clearly capable to play all 3 well.

 

I believe Gus’ preferences are

1. Inside mid

2. HBF

3. Wing

 

But, I believe Gus’ best position for team balance and needs are

1. Wing

2. HBF

3. Inside mid 

 

Be interesting how this develops over pre-season. 

[1964_2 2,357]

17 hours ago, rpfc said:

I don’t think the half a dozen games is enough of a sample size to know how it will go. But I do know that they are going ahead with that foursome as our primary mids into 2023. Which means that we have to find complimentary players to take the rest of the minutes in the midfield. And I think that would mean quicker players with precise skills that play outside would be desirable. 

Added to that, these 2 or 3 players also have to be forwards first IMO as that is where they will play predominantly. This is to make our forward line more dangerous than it is now.

The above doesn’t describe Swallow, Jordan, and Harmes in my view. You can get away with 1 non-factor in the fwd line, but more than that??

Chandler.

[whatwhat say what 22,218]

10 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

So we have seen Brayshaw play as a  Wing, HBF, and an inside mid. Clearly capable to play all 3 well.

 

I believe Gus’ preferences are

1. Inside mid

2. HBF

3. Wing

 

But, I believe Gus’ best position for team balance and needs are

1. Wing

2. HBF

3. Inside mid 

 

Be interesting how this develops over pre-season. 

even further, i'd say his best performed positions are:

1. half back flank
2. wing
3. inside mid

[drdrake 3,124]

25 minutes ago, layzie said:

We need actual crumbing forwards who understand how to rove a ball off a pack and kick a sausage. 

Small forwards is something we have an over supply off.  I reckon they got lazy and looked for the easy goal over the back rather than hitting the front and square spot.

We went past the contest, it happened all the time I first thought it was timing then later in the season it was more looking for the easy kick.  Looks great running into the open goal, looks even better a front and square snap

[1964_2 2,357]

15 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

even further, i'd say his best performed positions are:

1. half back flank
2. wing
3. inside mid

Fair call. 
Gus would be a great, complimentary mid for many other teams.

Unfortunately for him he has similar strengths and weaknesses as Trac, Oli, Viney, and will most likely remain 4th in the pecking order.  

Our 4th mid needs to be a quick, classy, smart mid, with great foot skills (not asking much)

If we go into 2023 with Trac, Oli, Viney and Brayshaw as our 4 mids for the year. Think it will be an indicator we haven’t learnt much, and stubborn goody is back in a big way. 
 

Edited September 19, 2022 by 1964_2

[1964_2 2,357]

8 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Small forwards is something we have an over supply off.  I reckon they got lazy and looked for the easy goal over the back rather than hitting the front and square spot.

We went past the contest, it happened all the time I first thought it was timing then later in the season it was more looking for the easy kick.  Looks great running into the open goal, looks even better a front and square snap

Do we though?

Spargo and ANB are small fwds, who couldn’t get dropped, despite some very average form. 
 

[drdrake 3,124]

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

Do we though?

Spargo and ANB are small fwds, who couldn’t get dropped, despite some very average form. 
 

Was that blind faith from the coach.  Chandler and Bedfords form in the VFL warranted more games then they had.  I think they should have been given a good run at it.

ANB and Spargo to their defense were pushing so high up the ground bloody hard to work back.  That was an issue we didn't look to control the footy across half back, change angles to open the space up but also give time for our forwards to work back.  We rarely looked inboard just down the line.

Edited September 20, 2022 by drdrake

[layzie 33,022]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

Small forwards is something we have an over supply off.  I reckon they got lazy and looked for the easy goal over the back rather than hitting the front and square spot.

We went past the contest, it happened all the time I first thought it was timing then later in the season it was more looking for the easy kick.  Looks great running into the open goal, looks even better a front and square snap

That's right, we don't have enough instinctive small forwards who know well enough where the fall of the ball will be. There's times when it looks like they didn't know the meaning of front and square.

If we are indeed looking for new forward coaches I'd be wanting a new philosophy for the smalls once the ball hits the deck in there.

Which makes me wonder if how system and forward methods are more concerned with getting in the right positions to apply forward pressure once the defenders have possession than actual forward craft? 

[David-Demon 545]

On 9/13/2022 at 4:49 PM, rpfc said:

Lovely. 

Of your ‘Dumps’ - J SMith has got another two years just a couple weeks ago, D SMith is on the rookie list, and Spargo and Tomlinson have 3 and 1 years left respectively so have to be traded.

And for Ben Brown to be ‘retired’ it will cost $1m for the final two years left on his contract.

So unless you know something we don’t, I think we can try to be respectful to people.

Well let's wait and see. Tomlinson will be the first of my "selection" to get traded. Watch this space.

[rpfc 28,052]

5 hours ago, David-Demon said:

Well let's wait and see. Tomlinson will be the first of my "selection" to get traded. Watch this space.

I also think he will be traded. But we have to find a team to take him. We are not going to ‘dump’ him and eat $500k.

[Lucifers Hero 38,985]

AFL article on demon players:

MELBOURNE'S Jayden Hunt faces an uncertain future with the free agent remaining unsigned for next year.   

Hunt is an unrestricted free agent and played 20 games for the Demons this season, including their two finals. He also played 20 games in 2021 and was unlucky to miss out on the club's premiership win last year after injuring his ankle late in Melbourne's campaign.

He is without a contract for 2023. West Coast has a level of interest in Hunt and given his free agency status he could leave and join any club without a trade being enacted. 

The 27-year-old's speed, run and carry is his weapon and he was instrumental in the Demons' round 22 win over Carlton with a season-high 19 disposals and several key moments late in the game.

Melbourne pair Jake Melksham, who played in Casey Demons' VFL premiership win last Sunday, and Michael Hibberd are out of contract but likely to win extensions. 

Adam Tomlinson could be looked at by clubs as a ready-to-go backman given he has dropped down the pecking order of defenders at the Demons, with the key defender conveyer belt in swing among clubs looking to bolster their stocks.

Tomlinson would likely be open to a move if an opportunity arose but he has two years to go on his deal at Melbourne, having joined the club as a free agent at the end of 2019. – Callum Twomey

[Fat Tony 5,090]

Bowey should do a preseason as a forward to learn the running patterns of Spargo and ANB. He’s clever enough to go back to half back if required. 

[58er 6,000]

8 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Bowey should do a preseason as a forward to learn the running patterns of Spargo and ANB. He’s clever enough to go back to half back if required. 

Agree FT also as a winger for variation 

[DeeSpencer 24,792]

Watching the Cats, they really do use Stengle, Miers and Close pretty similarly to how we use Pickett, Spargo and ANB. They probably get Stengle a bit closer to goal but the 3 smalls are very set to defend. Rohan as a very good pressure player for a medium helps too, even if he’s mostly invisible otherwise. 

Where the Cats are very different is they’ll use Tuohy, Holmes/O’Connor, Duncan and Isaac Smith very interchangeably through the wings and back or high half forward. 

They’re all 6’2 rangy athletes who can seriously run and are the big drivers of the Cats ball movement. 

We probably can’t recreate the exact same thing with Langdon, Harmes/JJ (right size but lack skills), Bowey/Salem and whomever we have as the attacking high half forward.

We’ll always be looking for more crash and bash with Oliver, Petracca and Viney through the middle to base our ball movement on. 

But it’s pretty clear why we wanted Holmes and have drafted Rosman and Howes

[DeeSpencer 24,792]

When it comes to defensive system I have a laugh at Scott being heralded as a genius for dropping Stanley back. Like the world has forgotten Gawn’s done that for years.

Im devastated to be losing Jacko when you see the impact Blicavs has a midfielder/ruck hybrid. That allows them do double down on the Stanley back even more without losing the ruck and they can play one less at the stoppages because after the hit out Blicavs is a mid again. 

Maybe the Gawn/Grundy combo can do something similar but I don’t think they’ll have the mobility at ground level and neither of them will be lining up as midfielders.

Because the cats are so confident in always having the extra defender back and/or the first wave of help to appear they can play a jumbo backline that doesn’t have a heap of skills.

Stewart’s a great kick and they have one of Tuohy or Duncan back as a distributor. Otherwise they play De Koning, Henry, Kolo, Zuthrie, Bews. 5 stoppers all above 186cm plus Stewart.

Can we go with May, Petty, Turner, Rivers, Hibbo/Hunt/Smith and Lever with Salem or Bowey providing the kicking? I’m not sure we can or should, but it does create the ability to zone and switch as well as easy intercepts.

Midfield defending is the Cats big edge I think. They have 3 on ballers who have played as taggers and defenders at some stage. Blicavs, Atkins and Guthrie. The Swans went 50/50 on clearances but the Cats won all but one of the Swans clearances back by forcing errors. 

Selwood and Danger did their thing, a bit like how Clarry and Tracc do their thing, but the Cats use their other mids to wreck to the opposition. 

It was a reminder of how important Viney, Harmes, Sparrow and if he’s in there Brayshaw can and should be in disrupting the opposition as much as winning their own ball.

If we hire a new midfield coach this year I hope they can do a refresh they way Yze did in 2021

[layzie 33,022]

The outlook is good

[Ugottobekidding 1,056]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Watching the Cats, they really do use Stengle, Miers and Close pretty similarly to how we use Pickett, Spargo and ANB. They probably get Stengle a bit closer to goal but the 3 smalls are very set to defend. Rohan as a very good pressure player for a medium helps too, even if he’s mostly invisible otherwise. 

Where the Cats are very different is they’ll use Tuohy, Holmes/O’Connor, Duncan and Isaac Smith very interchangeably through the wings and back or high half forward. 

They’re all 6’2 rangy athletes who can seriously run and are the big drivers of the Cats ball movement. 

We probably can’t recreate the exact same thing with Langdon, Harmes/JJ (right size but lack skills), Bowey/Salem and whomever we have as the attacking high half forward.

We’ll always be looking for more crash and bash with Oliver, Petracca and Viney through the middle to base our ball movement on. 

But it’s pretty clear why we wanted Holmes and have drafted Rosman and Howes

Rosman is gawn🤔

[DeeSpencer 24,792]

5 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Rosman is gawn🤔

Yes. I meant the reason we drafted him to begin with. Not sure if we can find them but Goody will be asking JT to find 187-190ish outside runners every year id imagine. Get them right and they’re worth gold 

[layzie 33,022]

Would be good to snip Tomlinson's wages

[58er 6,000]

On 9/25/2022 at 10:30 AM, DeeSpencer said:

Watching the Cats, they really do use Stengle, Miers and Close pretty similarly to how we use Pickett, Spargo and ANB. They probably get Stengle a bit closer to goal but the 3 smalls are very set to defend. Rohan as a very good pressure player for a medium helps too, even if he’s mostly invisible otherwise. 

Where the Cats are very different is they’ll use Tuohy, Holmes/O’Connor, Duncan and Isaac Smith very interchangeably through the wings and back or high half forward. 

They’re all 6’2 rangy athletes who can seriously run and are the big drivers of the Cats ball movement. 

We probably can’t recreate the exact same thing with Langdon, Harmes/JJ (right size but lack skills), Bowey/Salem and whomever we have as the attacking high half forward.

We’ll always be looking for more crash and bash with Oliver, Petracca and Viney through the middle to base our ball movement on. 

But it’s pretty clear why we wanted Holmes and have drafted Rosman and Howes

Now only Howes but Gus  is still there if we choose him on a wing!!! 

[DeeSpencer 24,792]

8 hours ago, 58er said:

Now only Howes but Gus  is still there if we choose him on a wing!!! 

Gus doesn’t really drive much ball movement though. Most of the time if he’s kicking on the run the ball lands in the crowd 

[BW511 2,575]

On 9/25/2022 at 10:30 AM, DeeSpencer said:

Watching the Cats, they really do use Stengle, Miers and Close pretty similarly to how we use Pickett, Spargo and ANB. They probably get Stengle a bit closer to goal but the 3 smalls are very set to defend. Rohan as a very good pressure player for a medium helps too, even if he’s mostly invisible otherwise. 

Where the Cats are very different is they’ll use Tuohy, Holmes/O’Connor, Duncan and Isaac Smith very interchangeably through the wings and back or high half forward. 

They’re all 6’2 rangy athletes who can seriously run and are the big drivers of the Cats ball movement. 

We probably can’t recreate the exact same thing with Langdon, Harmes/JJ (right size but lack skills), Bowey/Salem and whomever we have as the attacking high half forward.

We’ll always be looking for more crash and bash with Oliver, Petracca and Viney through the middle to base our ball movement on. 

But it’s pretty clear why we wanted Holmes and have drafted Rosman and Howes

Missing Isaac Smith was a real sliding doors moment, he is exactly the player we needed at the time and still need.

Edited September 28, 2022 by BW511

[Fat Tony 5,090]

I wonder if Rivers has the right attributes to move onto the wing? Endurance would be the big issue I think.