18 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

That's true, but what if it was to help get us to Cadmen? Man this has rattled the cages. Ok, so we wont trade Salem, i get that. But if we stand still we get left behind. Great sides have a history of being ruthless by being progressive. Will we be daring and look to refresh, or will we, like we did when we lost the prelim in 2018 just assume this list will get it done next year?

I'm in the same boat as you regarding Salem.

You'd be silly not to at least test the waters regardless who he is friends with at the club. He's been incredibly disappointing this year, and yes I've taken into account his battled a bit with his body.

Do we need to get ruthless with our list management? I don't think so, but I certainly don't think it's a silly idea to see what could be on offer for Salem to other clubs.

Edited September 12, 20222 yr by dazzledavey36

10 hours ago, CYB said:

The best thing for us is that he will request a trade to us. We have all the bargaining power.

He wants to stay at Collingwood, so I doubt he will be requesting a trade. Having said that, if Pies need to dump him, then I don’t see why we should be giving up a first rounder 

2 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Also, i know this wont be popular, but i would dangle Christian Salem out to the market.. i think he is nearly done.

Bit harsh given was one of our best players in a winning GF less than 12 months ag. Never really got going after that injury. Break and proper pre-season will do him good. 

29 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Salem won’t net us Cadmen, he’s the only decent KPF in this draft

Why would we be using the draft to solve the KPF problem in four years time if our premiership window is now?

Salem is a required player - particularly given Hibbo's age. Had a shocker of a year but I blame the people who continued to select him over Bowey.

the notion of trading salem is absurd

we struggle to have players hit tagets by foot and he's one of few who is capable of doing so

31 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

That's true, but what if it was to help get us to Cadmen? Man this has rattled the cages. Ok, so we wont trade Salem, i get that. But if we stand still we get left behind. Great sides have a history of being ruthless by being progressive. Will we be daring and look to refresh, or will we, like we did when we lost the prelim in 2018 just assume this list will get it done next year?

It might be unpopular but these are the conversations list managers have. I personally wouldn't trade him but you gotta give good  to get good and the stakes are high. 

Salem should be moved to the wing. Bowey should be taking that half back slot. 

3 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

the notion of trading salem is absurd

we struggle to have players hit tagets by foot and he's one of few who is capable of doing so

But did he and is he?  His finals were awful and i would argue he was a liability at times.. and yep he wasnt on his own,

SF - 11 disposals 4 turnovers 64% disposal eff

QF - 12 disposals 4 turnovers only 6 kicks. 

I get it that's its not likely and most would think its absurd.. i dont think its absurd at all to explore options.

19 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Bit harsh given was one of our best players in a winning GF less than 12 months ag. Never really got going after that injury. Break and proper pre-season will do him good. 

Yeah i can understand its harsh and he did have a really good 2021. I hope he has the pre season of his life. 

1 hour ago, BDA said:

Big call. He hasn't properly recovered from his injury. When fully fit he's one of our best ball users in a team not over endowed with good ball users. No way we should trade him.

Agree. Clearly hampered by injury all year since the round 1 injury. Don't understand why he was playing instead of Bowey the last couple of weeks, really, as he was visibly unable to physically perform to his usual level and it hurt us. 

In terms of trading him, if you were ever going to trade him, right now might be the worst time in his career to look to do so in terms of value. 

44 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

That's true, but what if it was to help get us to Cadmen? Man this has rattled the cages. Ok, so we wont trade Salem, i get that. But if we stand still we get left behind. Great sides have a history of being ruthless by being progressive. Will we be daring and look to refresh, or will we, like we did when we lost the prelim in 2018 just assume this list will get it done next year?

We lack great kicks. Salem is a great kick and last year he was combative, good in the contest. He suffered the same problem a few others did this year. Never got back to full capacity. I think we need to retain and find more elite kicks.

39 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm in the same boat as you regarding Salem.

You'd be silly not to at least test the waters regardless who he is friends with at the club. He's been incredibly disappointing this year, and yes I've taken into account his battled a bit with his body.

Do we need to get ruthless with our list management? I don't think so, but I certainly don't think it's a silly idea to see what could be on offer for Salem to other clubs.

Yeah maybe not ruthless but smart and aggressive. All i am saying is that while Salem's best is very good, what if we dont see that again, and he doesn't recapture the form he had. lets face it He isn't going to get any quicker. 

All just food for thought.

5 minutes ago, von said:

We lack great kicks. Salem is a great kick and last year he was combative, good in the contest. He suffered the same problem a few others did this year. Never got back to full capacity. I think we need to retain and find more elite kicks.

I respect that view and i dont disagree that he was good last year, in fact his GF was fantastic. But is he a great kick though? i mean he is a great 20-30m kick.. is he a great 40m plus penetrating slicing kick? or is it his calm cool demeanour and decision making that makes people think he is a great kick?

Edited September 12, 20222 yr by Demon3

Salem to the wing in my book too.

We had Charlie and Harmes running through there this year. We can exploit Salem's kicking up the ground, freeing up Langdon on the opposite wing.

Goody wouldn't think about putting Salem to the wing , preference would be forward . If Jackson stays he should play wing. Schwarz became a winger and he was 196 cm tall.

I think the re-signing of Brayshaw might have been a mistake as we have plenty of players like him , besides he would be good trade value . Sometimes you have to let good players go , the Hawks did it with Buddy and they won 3 premierships in a row.

2 minutes ago, COOLX said:

Goody wouldn't think about putting Salem to the wing

Nonsense.

2 minutes ago, COOLX said:

 Sometimes you have to let good players go , the Hawks did it with Buddy and they won 3 premierships in a row.

Have you been paying attention? We're about to do this with a player called Luke Jackson.

We definitely need some class on the wing and I wouldn't be opposed to trying Salo there. 

I reckon it's either Salem, Bowey or Laurie, or all of them.

More speed off half back wouldn't hurt us either, so maybe Bowey needs to stay behind the ball.

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Why hopefully not?

We need to constantly update and changeover the list.

You can't hold on to and develop every player year after year.

I’d like to see us invest game time in Toby Bedford in 2023. Chandier and Bedford weren’t given much opportunity, often sitting out games as medi-subs). Bedford has the moves and speed to compliment Kozzzy.  It’d terrorize defenders if both were applying pressure and chase downs. I think Bedford would be more dangerous than Spargo (I actually think Spargo and ANB are midfielders repurposed as small forwards) and hit the scoreboard more often. 

i know there is a number of issues but one thing that annoys me is how we let teams march the ball from d50 to f50 around the boundary line. our flankers rightly stay on the corridor side to force them to the boundary but they stay too far away and opposition sides just move the ball freely along the boundary with accurate kicking or overlap handballs. we seem to think this is ok and we will rebound from a superior defence. We see this pattern time and time again, meanwhile we struggle often from defence to find a free player. Also when we setup for a defensive kick in after a point we always leave a free opposition player in short allowing them good clearance from our d50 instead of applying more pressure. On the other hand when we are kicking out there is rarely a free option and we see the predictable melbourne kick long to the same spot and ugly big pack every time   

One bad year and everyone piles on Salem.

Yeh he had a bad year,  but not a horrible one.  If we trade him now we don't get what he is worth.  Which is an AA calibre HBF.

Watch him bounce back next yr!!

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Think you'll find players would be well aware their time is well up.

Players now days get good communication around their future even during the season.

For instance, Mitch Brown would certainly know he's time is up as would Oskar Baker who hasn't even been named emergency this year.

You’d hope so, and also don’t we have to release the players after like the Wednesday after your last game or something? Thought I read that somewhere 

13 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

One bad year and everyone piles on Salem.

Yeh he had a bad year,  but not a horrible one.  If we trade him now we don't get what he is worth.  Which is an AA calibre HBF.

Watch him bounce back next yr!!

I dont think everyone is piling on him, most have been defending him. I am piling on him a bit and i make no apologies for it. I hope he bounces back next year, but he was really poor this year, weaponless i reckon.

16 hours ago, dee-tox said:

The Weed KPB isn't a bad idea!

I found it fascinating that the Swans could turn P McCartin into a very good KPB when he showed very little  previously at AFL level. Obviously, the concussions were a huge factor but that is incredible coaching! To have the foresight to do it and make the transition over only one pre-season is amazing.

Paddy was always a great mark and kick, had an underrated burst of speed that gets hidden by his waddle and you don’t go pick 1 if you can’t read the play. Plus they had him in their VFL program for a year, it wasn’t just one summer.

Weid’s slower and hasn’t demonstrated reliable reading of the play. At this stage constantly doing the same thing with him is crazy so I’d be more than open to try it but I wouldn’t have high hopes. 

Weid’s best attributes might be his tackling and handballing around stoppages, which makes him a really good VFL ruck as we’ve seen the last 2 weeks. But I don’t think he’s big or strong enough to be an AFL ruck.