In Season - Loading/Periodisation: Put your conjecture here.

[layzie 34,326]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Scott's comments were after they beat Eagles in Perth about 6-8 weeks ago.

Perfect 'loading game' that one as well. 

[layzie 34,326]

47 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Crows 97-98 loading programs got heaps of attention and acknowledgement as key factors behind their flags. As well as their early adoption of sports science more generally. 

Goody might have been taking notes 

They did, very true.

There's been a lot of great examples out there. I think what I meant with my original comment is that it never seems to be in the week to week discussion of the experts as to the effects that loading can have on a team's performance.

For instance with relentless pressure running and spreading in a game. If a team was way off in that area, instead of bringing it up as a possible factor like we do and Binman has numerous times, they usually just criticise the lack of effort and say it needs to be better etc. I'd be hard pressed to find an episode of say First Crack this year where Kingy, Joey and whoever else has just once raised this topic or even considered it as a factor for a team's performance.

Edited August 2, 2022 by layzie

[Dr. Gonzo 24,438]

21 minutes ago, layzie said:

Without reading yet does his last name start with 'G' and end in 'oodwin'?

[binman 44,518]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

II remember studying periodisation in training for my level 2 coaching some time around 1990.

The concept has been out there for a while now.

Absolutely. In elite Olympic sports my understanding it has been in use since the 1970s.

Given the aerobic demands it makes perfect sense that it would become standard practice in the AFL.

And the timing of it starting to be uded in the AFL, which i think was the late 90s (starting in 97 with the crows) makes sense too given it probably wasn't until then the AFL really became an elite, fully professional sport (that transitiion probably started in tbe early 90s?).

 

[djr 1,605]

On 8/1/2022 at 2:41 PM, 1964_2 said:

My interpretation of what he said from about 3mins 40 on, was “goody always says there is a delay for the benefits from our good work at training to show on game day”  ie train hard for a month, then benefits a few weeks after that. 

“we have been training hard for a good 10 weeks” certainly interesting. Then a bit of a softener/downplay afterwards when he said “we always train hard” 

“We are a team that push the boundaries with training” also interesting. 

Didn't James Hird also say this?

Edited August 2, 2022 by djr

[FritschyBusiness 1,478]

4 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Yep, silly us and our confirmation bias.

By “pushing the boundaries”, might have also meant, pushing the mental boundaries? Peak ruthlessness?    :)) 

Like Christian Petracca almost drowning himself in a pool during training?

[—coach— 3,496]

45 minutes ago, binman said:

Absolutely. In elite Olympic sports my understanding it has been in use since the 1970s.

Given the aerobic demands it makes perfect sense that it would become standard practice in the AFL.

And the timing of it starting to be uded in the AFL, which i think was the late 90s (starting in 97 with the crows) makes sense too given it probably wasn't until then the AFL really became an elite, fully professional sport (that transitiion probably started in tbe early 90s?).

 

I can categorically say this is true, Olympic sports like swimming and cycling are miiiiiillles ahead of afl in terms of sport science because they are world sports not half a small country sport, they have multi year absolute peaks (they also have minor peaks multiple times throughout the 4 years), the margins between winning and 4th can hundredths of a second and in a sport like swimming you do 10-14 sessions (2hours plus per session) per week (if you don’t plan this extremely well you kill the athlete).

Edited August 2, 2022 by —coach—

[Bates Mate 4,511]

5 minutes ago, FritschyBusiness said:

Like Christian Petracca almost drowning himself in a pool during training?

And Salem knocking himself out carrying a backpack full of bricks

[1964_2 2,357]

15 minutes ago, djr said:

Didn't James Hird also say this?

Ha, good point. Jakey should be a bit more careful.

”We are naturally pushing the boundaries” might be better 

[BW511 2,724]

4 minutes ago, —coach— said:

I can categorically say this is true, Olympic sports like swimming and cycling are miiiiiillles ahead of afl in terms of sport science because they are world sports not half a small country sport, they have multi year absolute peaks (they also have minor peaks multiple times throughout the 4 years), the margins between winning and 4th can hundredths of a second and in a sport like swimming you do 10-14 sessions (2hours plus per session) per week (if you don’t plan this extremely well you kill the athlete).

I remember hearing last year that Burgo was happy with the boys doing some big running weeks during pre-season that were topping out at 37km a week.

I know a chunk of that is at intensity but it's so low compared to actual runners. Elite runners and cyclists are incorporating a lot more gym work into their programs so that excuse is gone too.

Marathon runners can do 250km a week leading into events (For a 2 hour event)

Cyclists would be riding 25+ hours a week (750km+ a week) - Richie Porte, as a known example, would regularly do 1000-1300km weeks leading into TDU (Admittedly these races are much longer each day)

 

 

[—coach— 3,496]

23 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I remember hearing last year that Burgo was happy with the boys doing some big running weeks during pre-season that were topping out at 37km a week.

I know a chunk of that is at intensity but it's so low compared to actual runners. Elite runners and cyclists are incorporating a lot more gym work into their programs so that excuse is gone too.

Marathon runners can do 250km a week leading into events (For a 2 hour event)

Cyclists would be riding 25+ hours a week (750km+ a week) - Richie Porte, as a known example, would regularly do 1000-1300km weeks leading into TDU (Admittedly these races are much longer each day)

 

 

Swimmers swim more than that in recovery weeks! Middle distance swimmers will will do around 50% of the year in the 55-60km per week range, hit some peaks in the 70km-80km range, and do 37km at taper leading into a major competition! Different intensities though. And walking is equivalent to low level aerobic swimming in terms of physiological response, so when an AFL player walks to the local cafe they are racking up low level aerobic volume, whereas a swimmer ha to do that in the water.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,240]

I wonder if Collingwood have been loading, particularly around the time (round 17 and 18) they trailed North by 25 pints and couldn't put Adelaide away for the entire day.

[—coach— 3,496]

4 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wonder if Collingwood have been loading, particularly around the time (round 17 and 18) they trailed North by 25 pints and couldn't put Adelaide away for the entire day.

That, or they never loaded because they never had expectations of finishing as high as they will. As such, they've played fresh but are starting to run out of legs.

Edited August 2, 2022 by —coach—

[Demonstone 23,336]

4 minutes ago, —coach— said:

As such, they've played fresh but are starting to run out of legs.

They would have started with six.  That's how many cockroaches have.

[binman 44,518]

45 minutes ago, —coach— said:

That, or they never loaded because they never had expectations of finishing as high as they will. As such, they've played fresh but are starting to run out of legs.

I reckon this is a very likely scenario.

No doubt they would have dome some loading program, but not to peak on prelim day, more to make sure they don't flag too much late in the season.

I reckon this is pretty common scenario and is a factor (note: a factor, not the only factor) why some teams unexpectedly storm into the finals and look world beaters but hit the wall big time at some point in the finals and get smashed by a higher finishing team.

Two recent examples come to mind - the bombers last year (who were level at half time in an elimination final against the dogs, but could barely raise a trot in the second half and got smashed) and us in 2018. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by binman

[Demonstone 23,336]

Essendon didn't win a final last year, binny.  They haven't done so for many, many years now.

[Guest]

Just now, Demonstone said:

Essendon didn't win a final last year, binny.  They haven't done so for many, many years now.

2004 was the last time they won a final (?)

[—coach— 3,496]

19 minutes ago, binman said:

I reckon this is a very likely scenario.

No doubt they would have dome some loading program, but not to peak on prelim day, more to make sure they don't flag too much late in the season.

I reckon this is pretty common scenario and is a factor (note: a factor, not the only factor) why some teams unexpectedly storm into the finals and look world beaters but hit the wall big time at some point in the finals and get smashed by a higher finishing team.

Two recent examples come to mind - the bombers last year (who won week one, were level at half time the following week against the dogs, but could barely raise a trot in the second half and got smashed) and us in 2018. 

Yeah I told a Pies following mate that he should enjoy it while it lasted (after 6 straight wins) as they would run out of steam when it counts.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

This thread seems to be jumping the shark a bit now... (Disclaimer - I'm a loading believer)

It started out with posters explaining that loading wasn't the only factor in winning or losing but now it seems to be becoming:

If you win - You loaded already.

If you lose - You're either loading or should have loaded.

[The heart beats true 18,183]

47 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wonder if Collingwood have been loading, particularly around the time (round 17 and 18) they trailed North by 25 pints and couldn't put Adelaide away for the entire day.

My take on this is absolutely not. They finished all over North in that game. They needed to as they were a fair way down.

[binman 44,518]

31 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Essendon didn't win a final last year, binny.  They haven't done so for many, many years now.

I didn't say they did 

Edited August 2, 2022 by binman

[Vitamin Dee 903]

Loading is a secret European tradition. 

On the way home from work I stop in at my nonna’s for dinner, before heading to my mums for dinner, and then finally home for dinner.

I feel wonderful, just not quite seeing any results as yet. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,438]

7 hours ago, qazwsx said:

The extra preseason needed to win an AFL premiership: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/the-extra-preseason-needed-to-win-an-afl-premiership/news-story/387b8adb9ca703a89701cf7e0569994f

Some snippets:

• We were gluttons for punishment. We did an extra “pre-season” from Round 16 in 2007 - a preseason to get us ready for the finals.
• It was a pretty big ask when the idea was first raised. We had a new fitness and conditioning guy, and the idea was to split us up into three groups. Each group would rotate through a light week, medium week and heavy week...those in the light group needed to carry us on game day...
• They split it up so there were people from all different positions on the field in each group. We didn’t want to have all our forwards so tired they couldn’t sprint when it mattered.
• It was a big call to put us through that in the middle of the season, but in 2007 we were playing well, it gave us the confidence to do it. If we had lost a few of the games leading up to the finals we would still be at the top of the ladder, so there was less pressure.
• That extra preseason lasted only about six weeks...but the huge effort paid off. We were fitter than we had ever been come finals. And on that last Saturday in September we finally lifted the premiership cup.

- Cameron Mooney

Interesting to note who was the fitness coach at Geelong in 2007 - Dean Robinson aka The Weapon - also at Essendon when Goodwin was there.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,438]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

This thread seems to be jumping the shark a bit now... (Disclaimer - I'm a loading believer)

It started out with posters explaining that loading wasn't the only factor in winning or losing but now it seems to be becoming:

If you win - You loaded already.

If you lose - You're either loading or should have loaded.

The problem is people looking to equate loading with results rather than performance. Your performance can lead to poor results but it's more about how you perform on the day (ie noticeable fatigue, sluggishness, inability to cover ground, inability for repeated efforts etc)

[binman 44,518]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The problem is people looking to equate loading with results rather than performance. Your performance can lead to poor results but it's more about how you perform on the day (ie noticeable fatigue, sluggishness, inability to cover ground, inability for repeated efforts etc)

Exactly.

Against west coast Geelong were noticeably fatigued. Other teams were thrashing the Eagles at that point, but the cats just got over line.

They won, but it was a sub optimal performance.

The cat's method is not as aerobically taxing as ours, and not so reliant on defensive spread for other parts of their game to work, so it stands to reason that they will be less impacted by fatigue. Means they are more likely to win when loading.

But still performing at a sub optimal level.

Which they did against us - they made almost as many basic skill errors as us that game.