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CHANGES: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

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in Melbourne Demons

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18 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Will be howled down but I reckon Ginger Baker should be considered. Recent Casey form has been excellent 

Played very well yesterday as did Weid and Rivers. 

11 hours ago, BDA said:

We have no key forward in any kind of form. I sya we try Petty inside 50 and leave Thommo in

And give Hibberd a run if he's fit (i don't know if he is)

Out: Hunt and Brown (not sure whether Mitch or Ben, its a toss up)

In: Hibberd and MAy

Yes I think this is what it's come to. No point playing Weid we'll only get more of the same 

    • Like 1
     
    2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

    Ins. 
    clean ball handling

    scoring power 

    Connection forward of Centre 

    outs. 

    sloppy little handballs to ankles or missed 

    kicking to the forward pockets instead of the “hotspot”(top the square)

    tackling over the shoulder 

    I'd drop  F. Umbles also

    • Like 3
    • Haha 1
    11 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

    People are either entrenched in their anti-Weid glasses or didn't go to the game if they honestly think Ben Brown should stay in ahead of him after tonight.

    So just replace a non performer with another non performer?

    • Like 2

    11 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

    Ben Brown has been poor nearly all year. Take off the ginger goggles.

    History of good games means absolutely nothing.

    What about Weid's history of poor games?

    The greatest relief is the timing. We know the bones of the side are the best in the league. We have 10 weeks to find the right combination and for key players to find form. If I were an opposition supporter, I’d be annoyed this slump occurred now and not later in the season.

    The forward line is a big concern. We badly need Ben Brown to perform as he did at the end of 2020 - the question is whether you allow him to find form at Melbourne or Casey. This time last season, Weidemann and Brown were trading places and it looks like the same thing is happening. If McDonald is a longterm injury the equation is different and I wonder if Weidemann would play more freely if he knew his place in the side wasn’t so vulnerable. (Obviously, not the ideal mindset for an elite athlete).

    Petty seemed to drift to CHF last night and seemed comfortable: Perhaps not the answer but worth experimenting with in the same way we did with Tom McDonald 4-5 years ago.

    IN: Weidemann, May, Hibberd

    OUT: B Brown, M Brown, Hunt

     

    1 hour ago, John Demonic said:

    Sam Reid surely gets the gong for the Kent Kingsley Award for Spuds who perform well against us. Might've been one of the all time great KKA performances. A performance worthy of a starting gig in our forward line. If only we had the mid season trade period...

    Definitely. 

    • Like 1
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    11 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

    Ben Brown isn't reliable this year.

    Don't understand why so many live in the past.

    Yet you want Weid LOL

    • Love 2

    Ni doubt in my mind we are loading. 

    Why?

    Because, one,  you can see they are not covering the ground, are unusually fumbly and in the last two weeks are shaged at the end of quaters and the whole second half.

    And two, this is exactly what happened last year at exactly the same point in the year, including our sudden inability to score and stop the opposition marking the ball.

    I won't be surprised if we lose next week too.

    Edited by binman

    • Like 1
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    • Sad 4

    1 hour ago, Ungarieboy said:

    Changes should always improve a side.

    Our backs are in no drastic need of improvement, but regardless, this will occur naturally with Mays inclusion. Tomilson is no fullback (we recruited him as a wing option) but still a good 3rd tall option - allowing flexibility of one of Petty, May, Lever to be considered forward.  Swans exposed Hunts defence (isolated one out), which also allowed them to push their forwards/wingers up the ground and cramp our forward line. Other teams will try and follow this - though May coming back, it may not be as effective considering he plays a goal keeper role.

    The Swans and Dockers also showed how to stop us from scoring and it's simple actually, clog up the space in our forward line preventing our marking targets from leading to the "v" in front of goal (our smalls are pressure players not leading/marking options), then pressure the midfield to force a long kick (seems to be our preference, rather than lowering eyes going into the 50).  Tmac, was crucial to this as he competed in the air, allowing our pressure smalls and midfielders a chance at ground level - which also puts pressure on their backs and midfielders; and consequently restricting their ability to run off and transition the ball quickly. Petty may help here, otherwise Gawn seems next best. Fritsch is a third tall and should not be considered as a KPF. Note Gawn forward weakens our midfield play, as Jackson doesn't do enough in the air around the ground.

    Our midfield loves to run out the front of the contest, but unfortunately this means if theirs get there hands on the ball first we are exposed to a quick clearance. Teams have worked this out to and are defending our front, and using the release handball to move the ball forward from the back of the contest.

    May is an obvious in, and M Brown an out - he's the same type of player as his namesake (so is Weids).  

    Also having a small as an emergency seriously exposes us if a tall is injured - Hibberd or Rivers would be better suited 

    Gawn going forward is currently weakening our midfield, but it shouldn't - remember the Grand Final turned when we had Jackson in the middle. Jackson's performed as an AFL-level ruck and then midfielder before, but right now he's out of form. Which is killing us because Gawn was winning us the match wherever he went yesterday, including FF, but we couldn't get it to work because Jackson was being beaten in the ruck.'

    I'm really unsure about Petty to the forward line. The May-Petty-Lever combo won us a flag and they work very well together. He hasn't trained as a forward in a long time and one of our major issues is connection - the mids and Petty aren't just going to start magically working out leading patterns/timing etc. when we flip our lock-down defender to the forward line. And it would mean retaining Tomlinson, who maybe needs a week under his belt to get back into it, but last night was really poor.

    • Like 4

    Part of the problem is they like to play one side of the ground all the time, going to the city end they go the Southern Stand side, going to the punt road end members stand side they do not switch it around, quite a few times last night ball on HFF line players calling for it across the ground free but we just bomb it into pockets, and again I will say this BB got his majority of his goals at north on the lead bit hard to lead if that's where the pack is.  Sides have worked it out against us lets see what the coaching staff come up with.

    Not making excuses but we looked a little slow and I am just wondering if they are being loaded up before the break.

     

    • Like 1

    Outs. .  F.Umbles. L.Ittlehandballstonoone  T.Acklingovertheshoulder

    ins.  S.Ure-handling.   K.Ickstoadangerousspotinsidefifty
    S.Coringpower

    R.Uthless also needs to be recalled after missing this year so far 

    Edited by spirit of norm smith
    H

    • Like 1
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    43 minutes ago, loges said:

    So just replace a non performer with another non performer?

    You pick on form. Weid had 3 goals and 10 marks, Brown is badly out of form. Pretty simple decision really.

    • Like 6
    12 hours ago, Docs Demons said:

    Ben Brown has to go. Who for I have no idea but he is to slow and cumbersome. Would also look closely at Picket and Spargo. No influence at all on the game. When they actually win the ball they just turn it over, Hunt also needs to go for Hibberd. Thank goodness we had Gawn and Gus as they were about only guys that won their contests and had a go.

    Wow wee. The Deez kicked nine goals for the game. Two of them were a direct result of Picket's work - both of which no other player in the club could have executed. Outside of BF, he was the only Dee forward that remotely looked like dragging us over the winner's line. 

    • Like 4

    1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

    You pick on form. Weid had 3 goals and 10 marks, Brown is badly out of form. Pretty simple decision really.

    To be honest I don't what the answer is but I do know it's not and never will be Weid plays one reasonable game in every 10

    1 minute ago, loges said:

    To be honest I don't what the answer is but I do know it's not and never will be Weid plays one reasonable game in every 10

    There's not one answer, but you don't just continue with out of form players when others are performing at VFL level. We've been down that path as a club, it didn't go well.

    Absolutist answers are pretty lame.

    • Like 2
    12 hours ago, Mr Steve said:

    Watched the VFL today and only Rivers Baker and Weid played well enough to get a call up. 

    Hey MS. Also caught a bit of the game. Problem is the Magoos are so far below the intense standard of the AFL, that we get false readings on players. For example, Weed plays well at level, but the pressure and intensity is probably half of what he gets in the AFL. He gets badly exposed at senior level, poor guy. 

    12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

    There's not one answer, but you don't just continue with out of form players when others are performing at VFL level. We've been down that path as a club, it didn't go well.

    Absolutist answers are pretty lame.

    So are continual face palms 

    FWIW . . . with a few exceptions that continually get exposed as dumb footballers, individual players are not the problem. The comp has broken down our game style. Freeo and Swans, because they are well coached and have good players, perfected interrumpere stilus. 

    I'm not an expert by any means, but I would have thought our style flaws are relatively easily addressed. For example, let's focus on sticking tackles and handling the ball cleanly under pressure. Improvements in these two areas will go a long way to fixing our forward line woes. BBB has lost form for sure, but he's not going to regain it in a substandard second tier comp, nor in our senior team with the ball being bombed into the arms of McCartin all night long either.


    Aside from personnel changes, also think we'd benefit from Gus getting back to the wing (Rivers or Hibberd in), and Kozzy attending a few centre bounces again. Reckon we need to shake up the clearance setup a bit.

     

    • Like 8
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    Watched the whole Casey game at the ground yesterday. Hibberd played a basically flawless game. If he’s fit enough, he absolutely comes in, for Hunt I presume. 

    • Like 3

    Reckon we will persevere with Ben Brown for the time being in the hope that he comes good

    May will be back which adds a lot and Rivers could get an early recall. If so, Brayshaw goes back to the wing

    Maybe swap Weideman for Mitch Brown in the hope that Weideman finds some form in the seniors. 

    Nearly all of the others have points in the bank but our glaring weakness is our forward line and to a lesser extent, the delivery into the forward line

    But the forwards can't expect lace-out delivery unless they present properly.  And that isn't happening.  Also, our small forwards (collectively) need to step up and start hitting the scoreboard

    As for the tall forwards, we need Ben Brown, Weideman/M Brown and a resting ruck (Gawn or Jackson) all competing hard, fighting for the front position and/or creating separation

    The options aren't really there with our tall forwards so what is needed is a greater output from what we've got.  Van Rooyen looks like he needs plenty of time in the reserves.  Project player

    Fritsch as the floating 3rd forward is playing his role but he could be a much bigger weapon if the tall forwards play their roles well

    At times last night we looked like a one-man team (Max Gawn) The big bloke needs help and lots of it

    n.b. T-Mac may or may not be available so the above is based on his unavailability

    Edited by Macca

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
     

    Listening to Goodys presser, I don’t think Weideman will come in. So it will be Brown and Brown again. Also said TMac would have scans during the week! May will come in for Tomlinson, who was way off the pace. I think Hibberd should come in, probably for Hunt. I would like to see Bedford in the 22. Maybe Gus gets into the midfield rotation, and Sparrow out? Quite a few players are down on form, the only way to get that back is to play. Yesterdays game could have gone either way, let’s not forget that.

     

    1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

    Gawn going forward is currently weakening our midfield, but it shouldn't - remember the Grand Final turned when we had Jackson in the middle. Jackson's performed as an AFL-level ruck and then midfielder before, but right now he's out of form. Which is killing us because Gawn was winning us the match wherever he went yesterday, including FF, but we couldn't get it to work because Jackson was being beaten in the ruck.'

    I'm really unsure about Petty to the forward line. The May-Petty-Lever combo won us a flag and they work very well together. He hasn't trained as a forward in a long time and one of our major issues is connection - the mids and Petty aren't just going to start magically working out leading patterns/timing etc. when we flip our lock-down defender to the forward line. And it would mean retaining Tomlinson, who maybe needs a week under his belt to get back into it, but last night was really poor.

    Fully agree with this. Jackson is flying under the radar with regards to the blame game on here. He needs to decide where he is going to be playing his footy next year, because I think at the moment that is really affecting his game


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