POSTGAME: Rd 11 vs Fremantle

[Rivers Run Red 182]

Fremantle out Melbourned Melbourne. Pressure was intense, first time this year I've seen that level of uncertainty with ball in hand.

Better to happen now than in September.

 

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

Some clear learnings...

Langdon is close to our most important link man/player.

Tom McDonald offers versatility BBB and Weed do not have.

We are too reliant on Petracca ripping a game apart in a quarter-which he has done for the past year.

Bring back Salem!!

Bedford is a gun and will be a part of the future.

Beat Max -Beat Narmm

May is the captain when the captain is busy.

They took our aerial dominance away and ripped down the middle.

[Winners at last 4,962]

 Thankfully the sun did come out this morning ...although hidden behind cloud,

Our percentage took a fair hit.

I don't think Langdon will be back for a while. He was sadly missed ... as were May, Tmac, Salem and Harmes.

Hmm .... I've booked tickets to the next 3 matches  .... Swans, filth & Brisbane. And to those posters who are thankful that Franklin will be playing ... as if he won't appeal and get off! 

We were absolutely monstered by Freo .... I haven't seen us being outmarked so regularly since the bad old days ... 

Excuse my rambings ...  I need a coffee ... onwards and upwards ....

 

[DEE fence 4,614]

Well we found out how deep our depth isn't...

And then;

Putain, Bâtard, Merde, Enfoiré,

Liverpool goes and mucks it up... 

With me in the middle of Abyei, Sudan, with a sat phone trying to find out scores, expensive and unpleasant.

I still believe though 100%

[Lucifers Hero 37,534]

I still believe in our depth but yesterday was a bridge too far.

A lot of our first choice 22 were out:  Salem, McDonald, Harmes, Langdon.  All other things being equal we would have won with the selected team. 

But with May, Petty and Petracca 'not available' (and Max looked hampered) for much of the game it was too much for our replacements Bedford, Dunstan, Melksham and Weideman to plug those gaps.  Altho credit to Bedford's work.

Which 'absentee' was the 'straw that broke the camel's back'.  I don't know.

But we had to shuffle best 22 players to unfamiliar roles which weakened structures, ball movement and fwd half pressure.

imv that has little to do with our depth.

[picket fence 15,852]

11 hours ago, Star of the 80s said:

Jaded, we lost to the Western Bulldogs and GWS last season whom were both top 8 sides.

Yes ,but we weren't blown out of the water like we were in that second half. The way we capitulated is cause for concern😬

[Lucifers Hero 37,534]

3 minutes ago, DEE fence said:

Well we found out how deep our depth isn't...

And then;

Putain, Bâtard, Merde, Enfoiré,

Liverpool goes and mucks it up... 

With me in the middle of Abyei, Sudan, with a sat phone trying to find out scores, expensive and unpleasant.

I still believe though 100%

Hi Df, my post after yours isn't related to your 'depth' comment.

i was typing while you posted and didn't see it so I wasn't criticising your pov.

[Wells 11 5,010]

I’d forgotten how bad a loss feels and how many questions it brings!  On the positive, while we got killed in the air , there is just no way that happens w a full strength team. On the negative our depth got shown up with all the ripple effects exposed. Who’s to say we will be full strength at finals time? 

3 coaching thoughts. How is spargo and Jordan remotely a wing combo?  I think it’s time to cut our losses w Weid. He just has zero physical presence and when things are actually turning against us ( as they will) he’s a demoralising sight. Time to blood JVR? And , obvious in hindsight, but why play petracca in a state like that? he should not have been out there. 

[Engorged Onion 9,659]

3 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

I’d forgotten how bad a loss feels and how many questions it brings!  On the positive, while we got killed in the air , there is just no way that happens w a full strength team. On the negative our depth got shown up with all the ripple effects exposed. Who’s to say we will be full strength at finals time? 

3 coaching thoughts. How is spargo and Jordan remotely a wing combo?  I think it’s time to cut our losses w Weid. He just has zero physical presence and when things are actually turning against us ( as they will) he’s a demoralising sight. Time to blood JVR? And , obvious in hindsight, but why play petracca in a state like that? he should not have been out there. 

I've been pondering the choice re Trac.

3 people have the convo. Trac, Goodwin, and the Doc... Who has most leverage if Trac is saying 'Nah mate, I'll be fine!'

[picket fence 15,852]

3 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

I’d forgotten how bad a loss feels and how many questions it brings!  On the positive, while we got killed in the air , there is just no way that happens w a full strength team. On the negative our depth got shown up with all the ripple effects exposed. Who’s to say we will be full strength at finals time? 

3 coaching thoughts. How is spargo and Jordan remotely a wing combo?  I think it’s time to cut our losses w Weid. He just has zero physical presence and when things are actually turning against us ( as they will) he’s a demoralising sight. Time to blood JVR? And , obvious in hindsight, but why play petracca in a state like that? he should not have been out there. 

Mitch Brown would be a better bet, hope he kicks plenty today

[Lucifers Hero 37,534]

Tomlinson for Petracca would have been a good late change even without knowing May would go down in the first 10 minutes.  We knew Petty had been injured the week before and we knew TMc wasn't playing so having Tomlinson in the team or medi sub was the %'age play.

Whether Petracca played or not I think we missed a trick not having Tomlinson as medi sub. 

We may not have won the match with Tomlinson as medi sub but he would have prevented the breakdown in our defence when Petty went down and reduced the need to shuffle so many players into unfamiliar positions.

Having said that may we selected Dunstan knowing Petracca wasn't well and kept our fingers crossed on Petty. 

The medisub was a real dilemma for the coaches.   I would have leaned to Tomlinson. 

It was a 'Murphy's Law' day.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Webber 10,181]

5 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I've been pondering the choice re Trac.

3 people have the convo. Trac, Goodwin, and the Doc... Who has most leverage if Trac is saying 'Nah mate, I'll be fine!'

If it’s not a musculoskeletal injury, it will always come down to the player. It literally comes down to how they ‘feel’. 
On the injury front generally, and I’ve said it before (endlessly), players unavailable week to week is the single most reliable determinant of season outcome across the AFL. This will be the story of our season’s second half. Get back or close to best 22, and we reset and march on. Have a rolling 4-5 out weekly (or more), and we’re going to really struggle, sad to say. It’s the truth nobody (particularly the media, and coaches) really want to talk about. As such, with May obviously out, player returns for next week’s game will be crucial. 

[Binmans PA 26,832]

13 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

A terrible day from start to finish. 
Don’t want to panic but last year we didn’t lose to a single top 8 side. This year we’ve only played 2 really good sides and Freo has not just beat us, they smashed us. 
 

So disappointed in so many of our players. Trac was embarrassingly poor. If he’s injured to the point where he can’t chase he needs to have time off. Brown and Weideman a disaster today. Backline had a complete meltdown without May. Smashed in the air. Smashed at ground level. Really bad day. 

We lost to the Bulldogs and GWS last year, but I agree we haven't had a loss like this since 2020 in terms of score and being defensively broken down.

Does anyone have the ground ball get stats? Aside from contested possession when we played -2 at stoppages, we were smashed when the ball hit the ground.

Edited May 28, 2022 by A F

[chook fowler 18,623]

We desperately need the bye. A lot of our players have niggles or are fatigued. 

[Demonised 1,250]

At the ground, I was watching Weideman closely. As the ball came into the forward line, a Freo defender would make body contact with him. As soon as that happened he was out of the contest.

[Deemania since 56 6,365]

9 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

He will be after the Swans successfully appeal his suspension!

There's no doubt Cotchin deserved it, and milked the 'picked-on' impression, but he did head-butt Franklin with dirty and exploitative intent - and Buddy was stiff to fall for the outcome via the snot-goblin. However, in this time of attrition, the Demons will be advantaged with the fullback in doubt (should concussion protocols apply) and Buddy not being on the field; this surely will affect the Swans' onfield confidences, as well, in both creative and set-plays where Buddy is/can be so effective. Just another example of the impact of rule adjustments and interpretations impacting games in the modern era. (ie: who knows what is going to be applied by the umpires in their impacting inability to best assess the situation at hand.) Do we have to take all umpire decisions to the level of appeals?

Carna Dees!

 

[Demonised 1,250]

One too many injuries and our systems broke down. That second half ... I haven't seen as many panicked 'just hoof the thing out of here' kicks for ages.

[Swooper1987 2,867]

Our first half, in particular the second quarter was outstanding but as has been mentioned we wasted opportunities and what should've been a 6 or 7 goal lead was only 4 and the door was ajar.  Our backline wasn't exposed in the first half due to the dominance of Gawn, Oliver and Viney at clearance.  Gawn spent a substantial amount of time out of the ruck and off the ground in the third and that was the turning point.  Jackson played nothing like a big man yesterday.  He was uncompetitive in the air and in the ruck.  A paltry 7 hitouts from 36 ruck contests (Gawn 20 from 44, Darcy 32 from 59, Lobb 7 from 25).  Our midfield dominance is predicated on either winning hit out or negating the oppo ruck.  We never get beaten in the ruck.  We may not always win it but we never lose it - until yesterday.  Gawn played a fine game - not outstanding but he more than held up his end and neither Lobb nor Darcy had any real influence when opposed to Gawn.  Jackson's ability to hit the scoreboard has also stagnated this season.  If he is to be a third tall forward he needs to do more in that part of the ground.

Our tall forwards were terrible in the air also.  Freo's contested marks were mostly intercept in defence and that is an indictment on Brown and Weidemann.  The good news is, it's all fixable.  Mitch Brown will probably come in if he plays ok today.  He's a very smart footballer and he knows how to lead.  Tomlinson is a very good defender who'd be playing regular senior footy nearly anywhere else.  Harmes will be close to playing this week. TMac should be back.  All of a sudden we look a much better team.  We won games in May's absence last year and I'm sure we can do it again.

[TheWiz 723]

6 minutes ago, Demonised said:

At the ground, I was watching Weideman closely. As the ball came into the forward line, a Freo defender would make body contact with him. As soon as that happened he was out of the contest.

Spot on. I was watching him too and felt that he was looked very reactive to every situation. No early body work, no early leads. Just watching the ball and getting pushed out of the contest. Allowed for his defender to go uncontested and BB to get blocked by his.

[Winners at last 4,962]

7 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Our first half, in particular the second quarter was outstanding but as has been mentioned we wasted opportunities and what should've been a 6 or 7 goal lead was only 4 and the door was ajar.  Our backline wasn't exposed in the first half due to the dominance of Gawn, Oliver and Viney at clearance.  Gawn spent a substantial amount of time out of the ruck and off the ground in the third and that was the turning point.  Jackson played nothing like a big man yesterday.  He was uncompetitive in the air and in the ruck.  A paltry 7 hitouts from 36 ruck contests (Gawn 20 from 44, Darcy 32 from 59, Lobb 7 from 25).  Our midfield dominance is predicated on either winning hit out or negating the oppo ruck.  We never get beaten in the ruck.  We may not always win it but we never lose it - until yesterday.  Gawn played a fine game - not outstanding but he more than held up his end and neither Lobb nor Darcy had any real influence when opposed to Gawn.  Jackson's ability to hit the scoreboard has also stagnated this season.  If he is to be a third tall forward he needs to do more in that part of the ground.5 go

Our tall forwards were terrible in the air also.  Freo's contested marks were mostly intercept in defence and that is an indictment on Brown and Weidemann.  The good news is, it's all fixable.  Mitch Brown will probably come in if he plays ok today.  He's a very smart footballer and he knows how to lead.  Tomlinson is a very good defender who'd be playing regular senior footy nearly anywhere else.  Harmes will be close to playing this week. TMac should be back.  All of a sudden we look a much better team.  We won games in May's absence last year and I'm sure we can do it again.

There are obviously 'turning points' in matches. I think we were a goal short of what we needed at the end of Q2. (A bit like Bulldogs in Q3 in the GF.)

Can't remember who missed near the end of Q2, but a 5+ goal lead at HF would have been handy. Also misses by Fritsch (?) and Spargo at the start of Q4 snuffed out any chance of a comeback. 

[Jaded No More 60,441]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

We lost to the Bulldogs and GWS last year, but I agree we haven't had a loss like this since 2020 in terms of score and being defensively broken down.

Does anyone have the ground ball get stats? Aside from contested possession when we played -2 at stoppages, we were smashed when the ball hit the ground.

I suppose we do have another chance later this year to beat Freo. But we were so comprehensively outplayed. Other than the second quarter we never looked like we had any sort of control of the contest. We were outplayed and sadly outcoached. At no stage did we look like Melbourne. Even the goals we scored in the second quarter were a bit messy. There never was any flow or structure to how we played. 
I know the loss of May and then Petty getting injured killed us, and then you combine that with not having Tmac to help and no Langdon or Harmes or Salem (plus Trac being sick) and their replacements being decidedly average (apologies to Bedford who tried hard), and there are certainly reasons for this loss. 
It was just disappointing to see us fall apart and capitulate so badly in the second half. I thought we were done with that sort of performance no matter the adversity.

This was certainly a far worse loss than any we had last year, and I was most disappointed in our midfield. They were putrid once Trac was hidden up forward and Oliver copped the hard tag instead (we would have almost been better off having Trac play a dummy role to keep his tag). Gawn and Jackson were totally outplayed and the rest of the mids could not get their hands on it. 10-0 centre clearances is unacceptable. 

[Binmans PA 26,832]

12 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Petty was injured last week and surprised to see him selected.  Even then I thought he may be a late out when Tomlison was an emergency.

Knowing that Petty could break down and that TMc wasn't there for backup if he did, I was really surprised Tomlinson wasn't sub.  It was a risk which backfired and made worse by May going off as well.

I did wonder if we approached the game as an adversity test. Could we beat a top 4 opponent if things went badly? Obviously, having May go down couldn't be foreseen, but going on last year, I wouldn't surprised if we used yesterday as a bit of a testing ground. Tried various players in different positions, Spargo on the wing, JJ on the attacking wing, kept -2 at stoppage to generate more free players behind the ball.

It did have that feeling about the game, but maybe I'm reaching too far here and we were missing too many key players, many are carrying niggles and we were outplayed by a more hungry Fremantle. Or maybe it's all of the above.

[Demonised 1,250]

And whatever happened to Ben Brown taking marks on the wing? Has that part of the game plan changed?

[The heart beats true 16,755]

Tracc shouldn’t have played. I think this will serve us well in the long run as he owes us one, and will know it.

Stick May, Langdon, Salem, TMac, and a fit Petracca back in that side and the game is played very differently. That’s 4 of our top 6 players, and much more competitiveness and skill around, and forward, of the ball.

Freo are good, but they aren’t that good. They exploited a hole in the game that wasn’t there until May went down. Petty was hobbled and it got much worse. I don’t think Lever is 100% yet. They won’t get another crack at us looking like that behind the ball again.

[loges 6,417]

56 minutes ago, TheWiz said:

Spot on. I was watching him too and felt that he was looked very reactive to every situation. No early body work, no early leads. Just watching the ball and getting pushed out of the contest. Allowed for his defender to go uncontested and BB to get blocked by his.

Everyone always hopes he's going to do ok but you just get sick of his very regular insipid performances. Back to Casey please.