The very, very contentious 50 for Dissent Rule

[rjay 23,970]

"As to what that level (of Dissent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide, but we've been really clear on this. We have unanimous support from all the clubs, all the leaders of clubs, and in fact, they want us to pay these free kicks. 

That is seriously a dumb comment from Scott...and a total cop out.

For the players and clubs to be totally clear then how about the AFL be totally clear and transparent. Spell it out Brad...that's not clear, it's a clear cop out.

Edited April 19, 2022 by rjay

[daisycutter 28,640]

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

"As to what that level (of Dissent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide, but we've been really clear on this. We have unanimous support from all the clubs, all the leaders of clubs, and in fact, they want us to pay these free kicks. 

That is seriously a dumb comment from Scott...and a total cop out.

For the players and clubs to be totally clear then how about the AFL be totally clear and transparent. Spell it out Brad...that's not clear, it's a clear cop out.

i can see a future for scott in politics

[old dee 22,952]

11 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i can see a future for scott in politics

I notice that was all in lower case dc! does that mean  low case politics?

[Lord Nev 13,511]

9 hours ago, sue said:

My use of the term 'arm raising' was just shorthand to describe reactions to an umpire's decision or non-decision that is non-abusive.  You have been consistently using the term abuse to cover any reaction at all by a player.   Hence my 'yet again'.    One can disagree without being abusive in life and on the sports field too. 

Fair enough. I guess I'm just using that term to cover the range of things, apologies for not making that clearer. For mine, I think the dissent issues etc are a pathway to abuse, so I probably lump them in together.

[daisycutter 28,640]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

I notice that was all in lower case dc! does that mean  low case politics?

let me be very clear on this, od.    is there any other form of politics?   🤣

[Macca 16,173]

21 minutes ago, loges said:

Love the way you take the high ground regarding everything re umpires

The correct ground not the high ground

If I'm wrong, go ahead and prove it

In the meantime, many here will spend the rest of their lives complaining about umpiring decisions and labelling umpires as cheats (read any game day thread)

All based on a myth

[old dee 22,952]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

let me be very clear on this, od.    is there any other form of politics?   🤣

Excellent comment and the answer No other sort.

[sue 8,463]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

The correct ground not the high ground

If I'm wrong, go ahead and prove it

In the meantime, many here will spend the rest of their lives complaining about umpiring decisions and labelling umpires as cheats (read any game day thread)

All based on a myth

I think it has been proven by the AFL review.  
I obviously disagree with you on this matter but I spend little time complaining about umpires and certainly do not label them as cheats.  But I can still be critical though most of that is directed at the AFL not the individual umps. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

26 minutes ago, rjay said:

"As to what that level (of Dissent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide, but we've been really clear on this.

Translation: "I'm not sure what should and shouldn't be considered dissent, but I'm sure as hell not going to admit that here, and as soon as this conference is over, I'll be running off to the umps for an emergency meeting."

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

"As to what that level (of insufficient intent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide."

"As to what rule X (where X can be any rule) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide."

NO IT ISN'T

IT'S IN THE F***-ING RULE BOOK

IF YOU CAN'T WORK OUT FROM THE RULE BOOK WHAT IT SHOULD BE, THE RULE IS POORLY FRAMED

 

 

Now, to contradict myself, the "umpire respect" rule is a typical AFL dog's breakfast. There is NO RULE to allow the ump to award a 50m penalty for abuse or dissent.

 

And many rules are poorly framed, so whatever the ump adjudicates can't be "wrong"

 

Umpiring in crisis.

 

[Macca 16,173]

26 minutes ago, sue said:

 You have repeatedly stated that abuse is the cause of lack of junior umpires.

One of the contributing factors ... of course lack of available time, fitness levels and numerous other factors could be the reasons as well

But honestly, anyone potentially going into the umpiring ranks could easily be put off by the levels of abuse that are there to see (clearly)

Tell me something, have you read the game day thread here lately?  The torrents of abuse towards the umpires dominates every thread

If you wanted to know what was going on in the games you'd have no clue

And my gut feel tells me that the real reason the umpiring ranks are so skinny is because of the abuse levels

You should be thankful that you only get to read my views on umpiring once a year (for a couple of days) 

[Go the Biff 3,177]

35 minutes ago, rjay said:

"As to what that level (of Dissent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide,

And we wonder why we have "grey areas"

We question why Andrews gets pinged for raising his arms yet Holman & Hewett don't

Again, this is not on the umpires. They are trying to make the best of a steaming pile that's been dropped on them.

It's entirely on the AFL administration

[rjay 23,970]

2 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

And we wonder why we have "grey areas"

We question why Andrews gets pinged for raising his arms yet Holman & Hewett don't

Again, this is not on the umpires. They are trying to make the best of a steaming pile that's been dropped on them.

It's entirely on the AFL administration

Absolutely it is.

If they really want to know why the umpire numbers are down maybe they should start looking a bit closer to home.

[sue 8,463]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

One of the contributing factors ... of course lack of available time, fitness levels and numerous other factors could be the reasons as well

But honestly, anyone potentially going into the umpiring ranks could easily be put off by the levels of abuse that are there to see (clearly)

Tell me something, have you read the game day thread here lately?  The torrents of abuse towards the umpires dominates every thread

If you wanted to know what was going on in the games you'd have no clue

And my gut feel tells me that the real reason the umpiring ranks are so skinny is because of the abuse levels

You should be thankful that you only get to read my views on umpiring once a year (for a couple of days) 

Even if the players kept their emotions totally bottled up, this forum and most footy discussions would be full of stuff about umpiring decisions.  More so than other sports because of the vague ill defined rules and other obvious factors. So don’t think the new abuse ‘rule’ will save you.  

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, Go the Biff said:

And we wonder why we have "grey areas"

We question why Andrews gets pinged for raising his arms yet Holman & Hewett don't

Again, this is not on the umpires. They are trying to make the best of a steaming pile that's been dropped on them.

It's entirely on the AFL administration

If someone could come up with a blueprint on how the game can be umpired correctly, they would deserve a medal

Many here think that I've given up - not so.  I genuinely believe the sport has so many grey areas (that will probably remain grey) that it's impossible to get even most of the decisions right

Think about GtB, have we not complained in the same way for our entire lives?  I stopped in my teens as I could see the futility in it all but most just continue on

It's fair to say that the conflict is a huge part of the sport but maybe it needs that conflict to remain highly interesting

2 minutes ago, sue said:

Even if the players kept their emotions totally bottled up, this forum and most footy discussions would be full of stuff about umpiring decisions.  More so than other sports because of the vague ill defined rules and other obvious factors. So don’t think the new abuse ‘rule’ will save you.  

Save me from what?

Having a strong opinion contrary to yours?

[Supermercado 2,642]

I'd love to cop a rubbish free in the goalsquare and go right off.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Supermercado

[DubDee 21,053]

50 minutes ago, rjay said:

"As to what that level (of Dissent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide, but we've been really clear on this. We have unanimous support from all the clubs, all the leaders of clubs, and in fact, they want us to pay these free kicks. 

That is seriously a dumb comment from Scott...and a total cop out.

For the players and clubs to be totally clear then how about the AFL be totally clear and transparent. Spell it out Brad...that's not clear, it's a clear cop out.

As David King said on radio today - this comes from the bloke (Scott) who raised his arms to the umpires the most of any other player.  Must be irony week at the AFL

[DeeSince73 442]

20 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

 

Umpiring in crisis.

 

Too right it is. Read the room Scott. Listen to what everyone is saying.

[DubDee 21,053]

53 minutes ago, rjay said:

"As to what that level (of Dissent) looks like, that's up to the umpire to decide, but we've been really clear on this. We have unanimous support from all the clubs, all the leaders of clubs, and in fact, they want us to pay these free kicks. 

Scott wants more respect for the Umpires and he throws them under the bus straight away!  they are trying to follow your BS rules!

the crowds will be throwing abuse at them and booing more than ever next weekend

[picket fence 15,408]

4 hours ago, Macca said:

I have never met a person in my entire life that would ever entertain the thought of umpiring a game of football

I wouldn't even bother asking as I know what sort of reaction I'd get.  It's a thankless task with not a lot of upside.  And I played 50 seasons of sport across 4 sports

How many here have ever done it (umpired) on a consisent basis?  

Close to zero I'd imagine ... and none of us were ever AFL quality standard as footballers

As previously stated, fix all the grey areas and you'll solve the problem

But do that and you've got AFLX

Make the umpires full time and they are still adjudicating on any number of grey areas

Yeah, I did it for about 5 years eons ago. I loved it, the crowd getting into me, got called some really funny names, but always tried to be impartial and fair. You gotta remember I played 10 years of Amo footy and thought I had a good feel for the game.

One funny incident stands out. This big lumbering center half forward who thought he was Wayne Carey keep infringing in marking contests time and again. He would mouth of , shake his fist and threaten me with all sorts of inhumane tortures at the end of the game. Anyway at three quarter time he wanders over and asked what he had to do to get a free. I said play in front son. Anyway he said I'll tell you what If you start giving me some frees I could set you up with a beaut sort after the game........... I proceeded to pay the next 5 free kicks against him but mercifully gave him a couple late coz he played in front and slotted a couple.  He was my Best mate after the game and I still see him around and he tells his mates this ame story over and over again. My Umpiring career ended when this bloke decided it was a wise move to verbally abuse me and chest me coming of the ground at half time..I gave him more than he bargained for and then reported him. Not surprisingly he never fronted the Tribunal to get his 10 weeks. The league although supportive suggested that I take a break. I never went back after that!

Edited April 19, 2022 by picket fence

[sue 8,463]

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

If someone could come up with a blueprint on how the game can be umpired correctly, they would deserve a medal

Many here think that I've given up - not so.  I genuinely believe the sport has so many grey areas (that will probably remain grey) that it's impossible to get even most of the decisions right

Think about GtB, have we not complained in the same way for our entire lives?  I stopped in my teens as I could see the futility in it all but most just continue on

It's fair to say that the conflict is a huge part of the sport but maybe it needs that conflict to remain highly interesting

Save me from what?

Having a strong opinion contrary to yours?

Don’t look for offence where none was meant. I simply meant that you will continued to be annoyed by forums being full of criticisms of umpire decisions even if the players behave as you wish. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by sue

[Bitter but optimistic 21,402]

11 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yeah, I did it for about 5 years eons ago. I loved it, the crowd getting into me, got called some really funny names, but always tried to be impartial and fair. You gotta remember I played 10 years of Amo footy and thought I had a good feel for the game.

One funny incident stands out. This big lumbering center half forward who thought he was Wayne Carey keep infringing in marking contests time and again. He would mouth of , shake his fist and threaten me with all sorts of inhumane tortures at the end of the game. Anyway at three quarter time he wanders over and asked what he had to do to get a free. I said play in front son. Anyway he said I'll tell you what If you start giving me some frees I could set you up with a beaut sort after the game........... I proceeded to pay the next 5 free kicks against him but mercifully gave him a couple late coz he played in front and slotted a couple. My Umpiring career ended when this bloke decided it was a wise move to chest me coming of the ground at half time..I gave him more than he bargained for and then reported him, not surprisingly he never fronted the Tribunal to get his 10 weeks. The league although supportive suggested that I take a break. I never went back after that!

That's a great story picket - gave me a good chuckle over a vino.

But ...... FMD ........ you got sacked from umpiring !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?

[Demonland 65,974]

 

[John Crow Batty 8,285]

Highly respected former senior umpire Darren Goldspink believes disrespect rules and associated penalties have backfired badly for AFL.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/stricter-respect-rules-putting-more-pressure-on-umpires-goldspink-20220419-p5aeir.html

Edited April 19, 2022 by John Crow Batty

[Demonland 65,974]

25 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

I'd love to cop a rubbish free in the goalsquare and go right off.