Public school footy

[Skuit 10,031]

In the latest Gawn & Gussy podcast, Max mentioned that he and Jake Bowey were the only two players currently on our list to have come through the public school system. Max has spoken about this before, I think in 2017, when the number was the same (I can't recall the other player then?). The only footballer I know of making it to the AFL from my high school - which was basically next to Footy Park - was the largely forgotten Mitchell White,  an All-Australian, leading goal-kicker, and premiership player for the Eagles. I get that promising athletes get scholarships to private schools, but obviously some must fall through the cracks. Are we missing a trick here? And should this system be fixed somehow, and if so how? 

[Sideshow Bob 2,498]

Hey Skuit pretty sure they were talking about Max and Bowey being the only 2 guys on our list from SANDY that were public school boys.

The Sandy squad is geographically primed for Private schoolboys.

[Kozzie4PM 765]

Yeh he was talking about Sandy. But there has been a trend to more private school players in the AFL. I imagine it's solely down to the scholarships.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,388]

Public school….. ewwwwwwwwwwww I need a shower. I’ve heard they don’t serve charcuterie boards for afternoon tea. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Ethan Tremblay

[TRIGON 4,819]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Public school….. ewwwwwwwwwwww I need a shower. I’ve heard they don’t serve charcuterie boards for afternoon tea. 

Having not mentioned the accompanying glass of sherry, are you a public schoolboy yourself?

[mo64 5,910]

1 hour ago, Kozzie4PM said:

Yeh he was talking about Sandy. But there has been a trend to more private school players in the AFL. I imagine it's solely down to the scholarships.

My old school in Essendon has never offered sports scholarships and currently have 9 old boys playing AFL. It's all due to their facilities and the coaching they provide. Conversely, I can't name a single academic that went to the school.

Then again, my oldest brother went to the local high school in the late '60s, and the team included Geoff Blethyn, David Dench and Ken Montgomery.

[drdrake 3,203]

The coaching you get at PSA schools compared to your local football club is calk and cheese.  Most top end private schools have ex AFL players/coaches coaching their program, local footy you get the dad who puts his hand up, you might be lucky and get a good one but a lot don't.

I'm from the West, we don't have that prestigious private school, you either go into the City or head to Geelong, that explains why players drafted from the Western Jets is extremely poor in comparison to the NAB clubs in the East.

There was a series of articles a little time back that went through the states, basically saying if you aren't in the private school system in Metro Vic you have a very slim chance of being drafted

[daisycutter 30,004]

11 minutes ago, drdrake said:

The coaching you get at PSA schools compared to your local football club is calk and cheese.  Most top end private schools have ex AFL players/coaches coaching their program, local footy you get the dad who puts his hand up, you might be lucky and get a good one but a lot don't.

I'm from the West, we don't have that prestigious private school, you either go into the City or head to Geelong, that explains why players drafted from the Western Jets is extremely poor in comparison to the NAB clubs in the East.

There was a series of articles a little time back that went through the states, basically saying if you aren't in the private school system in Metro Vic you have a very slim chance of being drafted

and state schools no longer have sporting teams (with a few exceptions) and all that goes with it

[drdrake 3,203]

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

and state schools no longer have sporting teams (with a few exceptions) and all that goes with it

A few State schools are jumping on the sports academy bandwagon but these still can't compete with the PSA schools

[daisycutter 30,004]

1 minute ago, drdrake said:

A few State schools are jumping on the sports academy bandwagon but these still can't compete with the PSA schools

like i said "with a few exceptions"

when i was at school, state primary and secondary schools had sporting teams and a good inter-school comp, but it was only a few years after i finished school that it all disappeared.

a pity because it was much better playing with your mates than in some local community team where you probably didn't know the other team mates except for a few hours each week  

[Ethan Tremblay 31,388]

47 minutes ago, drdrake said:

The coaching you get at PSA schools compared to your local football club is calk and cheese. 

White Stilton Gold I hope 

[drdrake 3,203]

36 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

like i said "with a few exceptions"

when i was at school, state primary and secondary schools had sporting teams and a good inter-school comp, but it was only a few years after i finished school that it all disappeared.

a pity because it was much better playing with your mates than in some local community team where you probably didn't know the other team mates except for a few hours each week  

Playing for school mid week then local club on the weekend, best of both worlds.  You got to play with School mates then have another circle of friends from outside school

[daisycutter 30,004]

Just now, drdrake said:

Playing for school mid week then local club on the weekend, best of both worlds.  You got to play with School mates then have another circle of friends from outside school

that must have been after my time (mid week games) but i would have been up to play two games a week for sure

[gregdemon 628]

I went to a private public school (Wesley)  (firstly we all did not end up with high incomes !!  I am very just middle class)   There were 3 guns at footy and the footy comp in the APS was a high standard.    The 3 guns BICKFORD played one season MFC  under Barassi and then later was on the board.  Second  bloke surname Senior  played one game with Richmond    and NAYLOR played about 3 games for Richmond.  I was amazed that they did not kick on given their talent.        Then another bloke who did not play for the school but got drafted  (McLean  .. not Brock)    I saw play a few reserve games for MFC and then gone.  Shows how hard it must be(to kick on in AFL)  and that was in the 80's      Anyone that makes AFL has my admiration

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,951]

The posh private schools in England (ie Eton) are confusingly called public schools where over here a public school is generally a state school. Back home I attended an Academy before we emigrated and it had a swimming pool, gymnasium, music rooms with lots of instruments and both hockey and football fields all within the grounds and was totally free. Over here I went to Cleeland High in Dandenong where the one 'oval' which was actually a football (round ball) field only had it's grass cut once every six months on a parent working bee day by which time it was three feet high and we had to pay for absolutely everything. Some contrast. 

[Ethan Tremblay 31,388]

8 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

The posh private schools in England (ie Eton) are confusingly called public schools where over here a public school is generally a state school. Back home I attended an Academy before we emigrated and it had a swimming pool, gymnasium, music rooms with lots of instruments and both hockey and football fields all within the grounds and was totally free. Over here I went to Cleeland High in Dandenong where the one 'oval' which was actually a football (round ball) field only had it's grass cut once every six months on a parent working bee day by which time it was three feet high and we had to pay for absolutely everything. Some contrast. 

On the upside, I imagine you would’ve scored some pretty sweet loot; used needles, corpses, mattresses with urine stains. 

[Demon Disciple 12,530]

Bowser didn’t go to a private school (though was part of the Sandy Dragons/Vic Metro academies).

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,951]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

On the upside, I imagine you would’ve scored some pretty sweet loot; used needles, corpses, mattresses with urine stains. 

Those pickings were more likely over at the nearby tech school Ethan. At ours you were more likely to stumble across kids practicing sex ed when they should have been in geography class. 

[ChaserJ 5,192]

5 hours ago, Kozzie4PM said:

Yeh he was talking about Sandy. But there has been a trend to more private school players in the AFL. I imagine it's solely down to the scholarships.

A couple of public schools have created strong sports focused programs that have produced elite athletes, Maribyrnong College & Rowville Secondary College (Darren Bewick has been doing a lot work there and they had a few boys drafted last year) immediately spring to mind. Still, pathways through the private system are well established and the most commonly followed into the AFL system.

[Sideshow Bob 2,498]

44 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

The posh private schools in England (ie Eton) are confusingly called public schools where over here a public school is generally a state school. Back home I attended an Academy before we emigrated and it had a swimming pool, gymnasium, music rooms with lots of instruments and both hockey and football fields all within the grounds and was totally free. Over here I went to Cleeland High in Dandenong where the one 'oval' which was actually a football (round ball) field only had it's grass cut once every six months on a parent working bee day by which time it was three feet high and we had to pay for absolutely everything. Some contrast. 

The posh private schools are called that here too.

The APS is the associated public schools... so scotch, grammar, Wesley, Geelong college etc are all 'public' schools... just weird I say

[tiers 2,883]

Called public in the UK because they were all founded as church based schools (there being no government schools until the late 19C) that also took in students from the "public" ie. they were not exclusively church members and were open to the public.

The same nomenclature was used here with the APS (associated public schools) whereas what are now called public schools were known as state schools and until recently there seemed to be no confusion.

I suspect that the change came as a result of state schools in NSW being called public schools and that usage being adopted for the whole of Australia (similar to "minor premiers" which was exclusively used for rugby league going back decades).

Private schools is a better description but for those of us who grew up with the public/state system it is hard to adjust.

BTW until at least the early 60s the APS athletics competition was televised on the ABC as a major sporting event and even until the 80s the original pre 50s high schools (Melbourne, University, Northcote, Camberwell, Brighton) would hold a fairly high standard footy competition that attracted many future VFL players to the schools eg. Garry Lyon (I think).

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Sideshow Bob said:

Hey Skuit pretty sure they were talking about Max and Bowey being the only 2 guys on our list from SANDY that were public school boys.

Cheers for the clarification. But he definitely mentioned a few years ago that he was one of only two public school kids at the club. Is there anyone else currently that we know of outside of him and Bowey? 

An article by Jake Niall from a couple years ago, which suggests if Max's figures are correct we could have a slightly higher proportion of private school kids than the average, for whatever reason: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-private-schools-have-taken-over-the-afl-20191121-p53cso.html. 

[Pottsydee 161]

So,  just so I'm not missing anything - If you are from a low income family you will never be drafted?

Hardly! 

[BLWNBA 1,483]

14 hours ago, Sideshow Bob said:

The posh private schools are called that here too.

The APS is the associated public schools... so scotch, grammar, Wesley, Geelong college etc are all 'public' schools... just weird I say

The etymology of what you’re saying is correct regarding the APS, but none of 11 member schools refer to themselves as being ‘public’ as the UK equivalents do.

All 11 member schools are classed as independent and contextually are ‘private schools’, using the ordinarily accepted wording. 

[darkhorse72 1,943]

In WA the private schools were first to form specialist programs in footy and got the jump.They may more speaclist staff but it depends on the size of the school.

Now there are public schools that offer the same and we have the SEDA academy for yr11/12 for those focussed on a sporting pathway.  I'm not sure who they get in to train but they are based at the East Perth home ground..  The success really depends on your cohort.  I have girls from a private school AFL academy in my team but they don't rate in my top players.  As its their own attitude and drive that makes the difference.  We'll see how they go this year.

Whereas when I was at my previous public school and running the footy program, we were going undefeated in the inter school comp (Including against afl school).  Simply because we had a strong core who were on a West Perth development pathway. (Though none made it, but get paid well for travel in the country)

As for community teams, yep it can vary on the coaching quality and experience of those taking it on.