POSTGAME: Rd 01 vs Western Bulldogs

[Jaded No More 68,967]

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

Geelong had stars up and down the field and they were cocky too. Scarlett, Bartel, Ablett, Hawkins, Selwood, Enright, Kelly, Corey, Taylor.

Systems make you competitive but stars win you flags.

Correct. 
You can have the best system in the world but if you have a list full of mediocre players you won’t win flags. 
Geelong had an insanely talented list. Their list is still full of talent but it’s aging talent. We’ve been waiting for the end to come, but it’s come slowly and it’s annoying. 

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

Geelong had stars up and down the field and they were cocky too. Scarlett, Bartel, Ablett, Hawkins, Selwood, Enright, Kelly, Corey, Taylor.

Systems make you competitive but stars win you flags.

I actually think it is the opposite. Stars can make you competitive but systems win you flags. That is demonstratively true for the 3 dynasties this century.

 That cats team you mention was a basket case, with all the players you mentioned until they had a come to Jesus (that nearly cost bomber his job) and bought into the team system. Hawthorn stole one off the back of raw talent but then slid back to obscurity until they bought into Clarkson’s system, that system bought them the 3 peat, they kept winning even when individuals with massive talent left (Buddy).

 Richmond were the same, perennially struggling until they did the review that nearly got rid of Hardwick. Instead they doubled down and bought into ‘the Richmond way’…system.

[Lucifers Hero 39,991]

My take on the game:

• Rapt to see Bowey get his first goal.
• Libba played in defence a lot of the game, guarded  by Gus so made our job of mananging him in the middle a lot easier.  He looked very sulky.  They didn't miss him in the middle as they won the clearances hands down.  But he did next to nothing in defence.
• Max and to a lesser extent Jackson tapped far too many balls straight to Bulldog mids. 
• If Oliver and Gawn continue to give up so many frees it will hurt their Brownlow chances as umps will most probably look at them unfavourably when considering the 'fairest' part of the award for voting.
• Last year our defence target was to not give up more than 60pts.  We missed that by a smallish margin; a phenomenal effort with a backline that has rarely, if ever, played all together.
• Goodwin said that Lever's injury happened on Sunday.  Yet they named him on Tuesday night and withdrew him one hour before the game.  I can imagine this sent Beveridge ballistic as they would have put a lot of planning into how to neutralise Lever.  Wasted effort requiring some fleet of foot changes.  They failed miserably to take advantage of his absence.
• Gus was really good as a rebounding defender but hope he goes back to the wing.
• An aspect of Kozzie's work which is overlooked is how he mows down a player about to tackle his teammate going for the ball.  He did it to Dunkley in the GF allowing Petracca to get that well-timed goal.  This week he did it again when a bulldog (not sure the player) was about to tackle Langdon.  The result:  Langdon goaled.  This work that Kozzie does probably is counted only in the 1% stats but gee it is so much more valuable. 
• I really like that at the breaks the music was toned down.
• Daisy did another great job with her comments.
• I like the 'behind the goals vision' for some of the goals.

Great way to start the year.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Lucifers Hero 39,991]

As i intimated in my post above, Beveridge would have been filthy on the Lever selection ruse which he learnt only one hour before the game.

Then they got done over in the first qtr, done over in the last and shown up on a big stage again. 

The ABC reported that he could be heard being emotional from outside the box during the game. 

All up, it is no surprise he went into the press conf all snarly and then completely lost the plot. 

I guess his press conf was a deflection of their poor game that went to far.  But losing control of one's emotions like that is not good.  And he made damn sure he got no questions on the game by walking out.

It must have received some internal discussion as his CEO said:  “We don’t have any doubts about him being in the right frame of mind to coach the team on an ongoing basis.” 

And the backdrop for his apology video had no sponsor logos which says a lot about where their sponsors are at.

On a serious note he could take a leaf from Goodwin's book 12-15 months ago:

• Treat everything in the media (good and bad) as Fugazzi.
• Acknowledge one's anxieties and weaknesses.
• Gain perspective
• Seek the right help.
• Stay calm

I hope he is ok.  Would hate to see him go down the path of Rhys Shaw who unravelled before our eyes.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[binman 43,143]

16 hours ago, Chook said:

Geelong in the late 2000s was talent first, system second.

That is true.

Because back then systems were not as important. 

The tigers, and to a lesser extent the dogs, changed that.

Teams simply will not win a flag these days without the right system, no matter how talented their list is.

Again, the Cats are the perfect example to illustrate that point.

Under Scott they have had an incredibly talented list. He inherited an talented list and has topped up the talent ever since - just look who they brought in in the last few years.

In the 11 years he has coached the team they have won one flag. Not coincidentally that was way back in 2011 (his first year as coach). I say say not coincidentally, because in a 2011 systems were a much less important factor. 

Under Scott their talent has got them to finals every year, and premlim most times to boot - and probably will this year too.

But they don't have grand final winning system. So haven't won one.

[mauriesy 7,302]

Maybe the fact is that in order to win a premiership, you need both stars and a system.

I wonder why we won one? 😄

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

After seeing the crowds for the rest of the weekend I think our 58k turnout wasn't too bad. 71k Thurs night, 40k Fri only 54k for Bombers/Cats yesterday

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/03/19/significant-concerns-raised-over-poor-crowd-numbers/

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

After seeing the crowds for the rest of the weekend I think our 58k turnout wasn't too bad. 71k Thurs night, 40k Fri only 54k for Bombers/Cats yesterday

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/03/19/significant-concerns-raised-over-poor-crowd-numbers/

yep, but even then gerard whately manages to quote 5k less than were actually there on wednesday

yesterday's crowd of sub 70k on a perfect saturday afternoon between a hyped up club and a veteran successful one was really, really bad

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

These numbers strike me as completely predictable. People are keen to go but nervous about exposure. The MCG parking situation really doesn’t help if there are people not keen on public transport yet.

 All the media hand wringing is just trying to make a story out of nothing.

[Brownie 5,981]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:24 PM, Meggs said:

Meggs finally getting around to watching the replay on Kayo and up to quarter time.  He’s still a bit hoarse from lots of yelling on Wednesday night.  But fmd, that flop and free to Weightman looks just as bad as it did on the night, atrocious decision.

It's not just the soft free kick, I find it's also when and where they sometimes pay them.

Where? Soft frees allowing the opposition a free shot a goal.

When? When that team is getting belted.

Sometimes I do wonder if those umps are just trying to even the game up.

[dees189227 12,394]

So where does that premiership flag that we raised go now? Just to our headquarters?

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

22 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

So where does that premiership flag that we raised go now? Just to our headquarters?

top of the g!

[godees 863]

6 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

• If Oliver and Gawn continue to give up so many frees it will hurt their Brownlow chances as umps will most probably look at them unfavourably when considering the 'fairest' part of the award for voting.

I walked the replay today and have watched a lot of round 1. There seems to be a set of rules in the ruck that solely applies to Gawn and no other ruck.

Joel Smith’s game really stood out on the replay. One of our best
 

Edited March 20, 2022 by godees

[titan_uranus 25,020]

9 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

My take on the game:

• Rapt to see Bowey get his first goal.
• Libba played in defence a lot of the game, guarded  by Gus so made our job of mananging him in the middle a lot easier.  He looked very sulky.  They didn't miss him in the middle as they won the clearances hands down.  But he did next to nothing in defence.
• Max and to a lesser extent Jackson tapped far too many balls straight to Bulldog mids. 
• If Oliver and Gawn continue to give up so many frees it will hurt their Brownlow chances as umps will most probably look at them unfavourably when considering the 'fairest' part of the award for voting.
• Last year our defence target was to not give up more than 60pts.  We missed that by a smallish margin; a phenomenal effort with a backline that has rarely, if ever, played all together.
• Goodwin said that Lever's injury happened on Sunday.  Yet they named him on Tuesday night and withdrew him one hour before the game.  I can imagine this sent Beveridge ballistic as they would have put a lot of planning into how to neutralise Lever.  Wasted effort requiring some fleet of foot changes.  They failed miserably to take advantage of his absence.
• Gus was really good as a rebounding defender but hope he goes back to the wing.
• An aspect of Kozzie's work which is overlooked is how he mows down a player about to tackle his teammate going for the ball.  He did it to Dunkley in the GF allowing Petracca to get that well-timed goal.  This week he did it again when a bulldog (not sure the player) was about to tackle Langdon.  The result:  Langdon goaled.  This work that Kozzie does probably is counted only in the 1% stats but gee it is so much more valuable. 
• I really like that at the breaks the music was toned down.
• Daisy did another great job with her comments.
• I like the 'behind the goals vision' for some of the goals.

Great way to start the year.

Libba played forward rather than back, didn't he? At least in the second quarter he was forward and was involved in a couple of their quick goals.

Agree re: the defence and the 60 point marker (is that something you read about? I hadn't read anything about that before). It's all the more phenomenal given the side we played is a high scoring side.

On the music during breaks, I thought it was louder than ever before! Maybe I'm getting old...

[Lucifers Hero 39,991]

26 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Libba played forward rather than back, didn't he? At least in the second quarter he was forward and was involved in a couple of their quick goals.

Agree re: the defence and the 60 point marker (is that something you read about? I hadn't read anything about that before). It's all the more phenomenal given the side we played is a high scoring side.

On the music during breaks, I thought it was louder than ever before! Maybe I'm getting old...

Quite right; a typo of sorts, on my part.  Libba played forward for much of the match, looking rather sulky guarded successfully by Gus. 

Re the 60 pts.  It was something Lever or May said in an interview around the middle of last year.  They pride themselves on keeping ops to that score.  There was a DL thread at the time but I can't find it atmo.

[Lucifers Hero 39,991]

46 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree re: the defence and the 60 point marker (is that something you read about? I hadn't read anything about that before). It's all the more phenomenal given the side we played is a high scoring side.

I found the thread:

 

[Adam The God 30,290]

One of the big improvements in our game that I don't recall as much of last year is the little tap ons, knocks and blocks from stoppage. Petracca, Oliver and Viney are very good at this part of the game. It enables our guys to get separation from their opponent in relative space and maximise the dangerousness of clearance wins. The aim.being to get out the front of stoppage as cleanly as possible.

In their glory period just under a decade ago, Hawthorn were excellent at the little taps and footy smarts in these situations forward of centre. We're becoming very good in tight in stoppages like I've never really seen before. Richmond were also good at this sort of thing, but less so at stoppages and more forward of centre like Hawthorn.

I can't help thinking Yze is having a big influence here.

[In Harmes Way 7,800]

 

[jnrmac 20,109]

14 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Quite right; a typo of sorts, on my part.  Libba played forward for much of the match, looking rather sulky guarded successfully by Gus. 

Re the 60 pts.  It was something Lever or May said in an interview around the middle of last year.  They pride themselves on keeping ops to that score.  There was a DL thread at the time but I can't find it atmo.

Libba only attended 1 centre square bounce. Unusual given he was the no 1 clearance players last year. It seems that Smith has moved from Wing to centre and Libba may be on the outer a bit. He certainly got very little of the ball

 

Maybe he was playing a defensive fwd role

[Lucifers Hero 39,991]

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Libba only attended 1 centre square bounce. Unusual given he was the no 1 clearance players last year. It seems that Smith has moved from Wing to centre and Libba may be on the outer a bit. He certainly got very little of the ball

 

Maybe he was playing a defensive fwd role

I thought that also, perhaps to play on Salem but he stayed fwd even when Salem went off.  I also wondered if JJ late out forced them to move a mid back to make room for Hunter.  Or maybe he is just getting slow or as you say on the outer a bit. 

Whatever it was it was a very poor game from him.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

So I’m finally watching a bit of the replay on my lunch break (thank you Covid for this WFH win!). 
And one thing I really love is how well we play as a team. I watched a few teams on the weekend yelling and abusing teammates for bad kicks which I thought was so poor. 
In contrast we support one another, we group together and chat and make decisions on the field. We don’t attack, we don’t point fingers and we don’t let anything phase us. I think that is a sign of a really good team that trusts the process and trusts one another. 
For example third quarter, we just took the lead back. ANB gets BB and Fritta together for a chat to point our positioning. This is a guy who last year was on the trash pile and he’s now setting up forward structures. Just wonderful to watch. 

[Paulo 285]

Wish our players would try and get the ball to Kossie more, I am finding myself yelling at the tv GIVE IT TO KOSSIE 

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,251]

48 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

So I’m finally watching a bit of the replay on my lunch break (thank you Covid for this WFH win!). 
And one thing I really love is how well we play as a team. I watched a few teams on the weekend yelling and abusing teammates for bad kicks which I thought was so poor. 
In contrast we support one another, we group together and chat and make decisions on the field. We don’t attack, we don’t point fingers and we don’t let anything phase us. I think that is a sign of a really good team that trusts the process and trusts one another. 
For example third quarter, we just took the lead back. ANB gets BB and Fritta together for a chat to point our positioning. This is a guy who last year was on the trash pile and he’s now setting up forward structures. Just wonderful to watch. 

Interesting. I thought it would be one of the team rules of every club not to do that. Years ago Richo was suspended by his own club for a match because he did that.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

Just now, Winners at last said:

Interesting. I thought it would be one of the team rules of every club not to do that. Years ago Richo was suspended by his own club for a match because he did that.

Robinson didn’t get the message then. He was screaming at teammates this week. Another reason to hate him. 

[Mickey 4,685]

4 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

 

Look out for the Dogs/Hawks bloodbath in Rnd 15