Red Mist returns!?

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

With the talk of (just a few examples)...

• Hunt missing an opportunity to pull up and go lateral following his run through the middle on Sat evening
• Lever also ignoring / not seeing an option or two out wide to his left with a few minutes to go and maintain possession / try to ice the clock but instead taking the safe, but IMHO, incorrect down the line bail out which then turned over and came straight back for a goal.
• Tracc continually mucking so many entries and opportunities coming inside 50 and burning team mates / the team so often
• Viney, while i didn't pay much attention on Sat evening, appeared to have a couple of clean exits from center / stoppages and had opportunities to hit up players inside 50 or at least kick to their favoured side but failed badly; and
• Lingers constantly bombing to the hot zone without seemingly being aware or capable of hitting up anyone loose i50 or kicking to their favoured side very often or at best on rare occasions...

I figured it was appropriate to re visit this analysis from a much more learned scribe in Gazza.  While i've no doubt many players from other teams also suffer in this regard, especially when placed under serious pressure, is this yet again becoming an issue for some (or too many) Demons?  When i re-read this analysis it still has some eerily similar examples to what we are seeing of late.  Our ability to assess and select the correct play ie; slow (possession/momentum/icing the clock) vs go quick option, go lateral vs down the line from HB (Lever), take the shot from 45/50 instead of trying to thread the needle (Tracc) or taking the % option vs forcing a 45 kick etc.

So is the red mist (inability to quickly assess but instead panic under perceived or genuine pressure, scoreboard pressure), still a default for some in our group when they feel the heat?  If so, is this fixable or is it too ingrained in said players and they are doomed to rinse and repeat!  Is the club aware of it?  Does it matter or am i beating this up too much?

Thoughts.....

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-problems-analysis-demons-on-the-couch-garry-lyon-red-mist-bad-kicking-playing-too-fast/news-story/8350ba20fe8a6cdc618b51cae33c412f

[BW511 2,688]

I would argue yes. The pressure of being top of the ladder and the expectation that comes with it, has slowly caught up with us

[Superunknown 4,223]

Case to be made for Melk and his zany visionary sideways kicks into 50. Or Jones when fit. He seems a calm head (feel free to correct me)

[tiers 2,843]

What seems to be happening is that there is no one on filed player to take control and give direction.

Normally the captain would fill this role but ......?

May is too far back, Lever too busy intercepting, Tracca guilty of not thinking it out so who's left.

I remember a game some years ago when we had scrambled to a small lead with little time to go. The only one then who showed initiative was TMac who, after kicking the winning goal, called for everyone to go down back (before 666). Why not give him the role.

Someone on the filed has to take charge.

[Jjrogan 1,439]

Spot on. NOT fixable. Only way you fix it is by changing the players involved.  Decision making and assessing targets under pressure (or no pressure in this case) is what you learn as a junior not fixed by one preseason of coaching or training sessions. This has been a problem for 4 years. Not enough coaching sessions? Really? Another year will do it?!?!

We did not have this problem in 2018 when 4 v 3 and 3 v 2 almost always resulted in goals.  Why?

Because our top i50 players included  Melksham (led the league in goal assists by a long way) and Brayshaw. 

Now we have alex neal bullen third and max gawn in the top 5 inside 50s for us.

In this particular part of the game the system is not as important as the player. When you have 3 v 2 going inside 50 who's hand the ball is in really matters.  

[Young Blood 2,634]

I think fatigue might play a factor as well here. The last two weeks have been really physical games. I think the boys have taken a fair beating and it shows when making decisions in game.

Not making excuses but I think teams are making a consertive effort to really hunt us with tackling and physicality around the ball and its showing. Need to weather the storm and make sure we're the aggressor. I thought we set the tone early in that Port game.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

10 minutes ago, Yung Blood said:

I think fatigue might play a factor as well here. The last two weeks have been really physical games. I think the boys have taken a fair beating and it shows when making decisions in game.

Not making excuses but I think teams are making a consertive effort to really hunt us with tackling and physicality around the ball and its showing. Need to weather the storm and make sure we're the aggressor. I thought we set the tone early in that Port game.

We're a few weeks off a bye. 

It's not fatigue. 

It's being top of the ladder and oppo sides going to town on how to play us. When we hunt, we seem to win. When we're hunted, we struggle. 

[Supreme_Demon 3,899]

I am of the belief that overall our tendencies to revert into "red mist" mode haven't been too bad this year. We are currently on the top of the ladder after all. However, Premierships are not won in July! 

Obviously, we did fall into bad habits against the Hawks due to the amount of pressure their players were applying. Particularly when you look at the tackle count comparison.

The most guilty seem to be Jack Viney and Clayton Oliver from what I noticed last weekend. But other Demons players do it as well.

Hopefully this "red mist" matter is a focus, as well as goal-kicking practice, throughout training this week in preparation for our game on Saturday night against the Bulldogs.

It should be a cracking game this coming Saturday night...shame there won't be any crowd at the MCG to see it!

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Supreme_Demon

[rjay 25,092]

Pretty much all footy commentary is reactionary and short term.

Gary is the epitome of this type of commentary and it's why I take little notice of what he says.

I didn't hear Leppitsch this week but he usually has a better take.

I do agree with '@JimmyGadson' above...if we bring the heat so far we've come out on top.

Let's see what happens over the rest of the season.

I'm not buying into mist...red or otherwise.

[Young Blood 2,634]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

We're a few weeks off a bye. 

It's not fatigue. 

It's being top of the ladder and oppo sides going to town on how to play us. When we hunt, we seem to win. When we're hunted, we struggle. 

I'm talking about in game fatigue. We're not coping at times with increased physicality. Big bodies of Port and Hawthorn were really hurting us around the contest. Needless to say we're on the same page. Be the aggressor, hunt from the start.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

Doesn’t red mist mean ‘a feeling of extreme anger’? 

[adonski 12,436]

25 minutes ago, rjay said:

Pretty much all footy commentary is reactionary and short term.

Gary is the epitome of this type of commentary and it's why I take little notice of what he says.

I didn't hear Leppitsch this week but he usually has a better take.

I do agree with '@JimmyGadson' above...if we bring the heat so far we've come out on top.

Let's see what happens over the rest of the season.

I'm not buying into mist...red or otherwise.

Leppich said something to the effect of 'you'd rather be in Melbourne's position (having beaten the top sides) rather than be in Port's position (downhill skiiers).'

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

4 minutes ago, adonski said:

Leppich said something to the effect of 'you'd rather be in Melbourne's position (having beaten the top sides) rather than be in Port's position (downhill skiiers).'

I think changing certain things to be able to beat the bottom teams would be much easier than finding a way to beat the top teams. Not a bad situation to be in. It’s crazy that we’re half a game on top at round 18 and people are still so concerned. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

We're a few weeks off a bye. 

It's not fatigue. 

It's being top of the ladder and oppo sides going to town on how to play us. When we hunt, we seem to win. When we're hunted, we struggle. 

This is why we beat the top teams and lose to the bottom ones.

The top teams just go head to head with us, strength v strength, but the bottom teams get a plan together actively take away our strengths and we haven't found a way to counter that as yet.

I don't believe it's 'effort' or 'fatigue' or anything of the sort, we're just not used to being in this kind of position so don't have the on field leadership experience to change it as it's happening.

[adonski 12,436]

8 minutes ago, Ethan Trembley said:

I think changing certain things to be able to beat the bottom teams would be much easier than finding a way to beat the top teams. Not a bad situation to be in. It’s crazy that we’re half a game on top at round 18 and people are still so concerned. 

Simply adopt the 2018 game plan of having 2 blokes by themselves in the goal square at all times for cheapies when playing the bottom 4 sides

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Superunknown said:

Case to be made for Melk and his zany visionary sideways kicks into 50. Or Jones when fit. He seems a calm head (feel free to correct me)

 

2 hours ago, tiers said:

What seems to be happening is that there is no one on filed player to take control and give direction.

Normally the captain would fill this role but ......?

May is too far back, Lever too busy intercepting, Tracca guilty of not thinking it out so who's left.

I remember a game some years ago when we had scrambled to a small lead with little time to go. The only one then who showed initiative was TMac who, after kicking the winning goal, called for everyone to go down back (before 666). Why not give him the role.

Someone on the filed has to take charge.

Thinking about the above and in terms of the red mist vs poise and calm in a storm lacking through the middle....does this enhance the case for a return of Chunk (once fully fit) in place of someone like ANB or AVB??

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Spot on. NOT fixable. Only way you fix it is by changing the players involved.  Decision making and assessing targets under pressure (or no pressure in this case) is what you learn as a junior not fixed by one preseason of coaching or training sessions. This has been a problem for 4 years. Not enough coaching sessions? Really? Another year will do it?!?!

We did not have this problem in 2018 when 4 v 3 and 3 v 2 almost always resulted in goals.  Why?

Because our top i50 players included  Melksham (led the league in goal assists by a long way) and Brayshaw. 

Now we have alex neal bullen third and max gawn in the top 5 inside 50s for us.

In this particular part of the game the system is not as important as the player. When you have 3 v 2 going inside 50 who's hand the ball is in really matters.  

Adding this into the last post also.  So if it's more inbuilt and cant be fixed through experience then personnel changes might work.   Melk & Chunk maybe?  I'm thinking those two for ANB & AVB?

[Smokey 4,389]

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

We're a few weeks off a bye. 

It's not fatigue. 

It's being top of the ladder and oppo sides going to town on how to play us. When we hunt, we seem to win. When we're hunted, we struggle. 

To your own point, being "hunted" sounds pretty fatiguing to me ... 

[rjay 25,092]

54 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

This is why we beat the top teams and lose to the bottom ones.

The top teams just go head to head with us, strength v strength, but the bottom teams get a plan together actively take away our strengths and we haven't found a way to counter that as yet.

I don't believe it's 'effort' or 'fatigue' or anything of the sort, we're just not used to being in this kind of position so don't have the on field leadership experience to change it as it's happening.

Yeah, I heard that BS from the commentators too.

Don't buy it at all.

Also, don't buy the on-field leadership angle.

We've had it in important games like with Brisbane to totally turn it around.

Go deeper 'Nev'...

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Two losses this year have come from oppo goals in the last 1-2 minutes of game time. How do you fix it...dont put yourself in that situation. We had countless opps to shut the game down make it a scrap / contest game - get numbers behind the ball etc etc. And yet as many have highlighted we have made some poor decisions and dont seem to have a plan B. 

Our game style is largely defensive in nature.. setup structurally to force the dumb kick and burn teams on turnover. However when teams like the ones we have lost to make our defenders accountable and apply a bit of heat at the contest, we look ordinary. One can only hope that we do have a plan B but have it tucked away for finals because i will tell you that every team we play from now on will be stupid not to adopt a similar approach. 

[tiers 2,843]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

Thinking about the above and in terms of the red mist vs poise and calm in a storm lacking through the middle....does this enhance the case for a return of Chunk (once fully fit) in place of someone like ANB or AVB??

Chunk has been a great and deserved leader by his actions but, to me, has never shown the ability to direct play. That's what we are lacking around the centre line and forward. I recall Angus once showing on field enterprise by waving his arms and barking instructions. It does not have to be the captain just someone who can think.

[PaulRB 6,411]

I don’t like the red mist or hunted theories. My theory is that against lower teams we fail to get sufficiently aroused (until too late), whereas against the top teams we are aroused with the good wins resulting.

once had a tennis coach describe tennis as balance of arousal and precision, too aroused and precision (ability to execute game plan) can drop… with poor results. insufficient arousal and precision irrelevant as not working hard enough to execute at level required to win. 
 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

1 minute ago, PaulRB said:

I don’t like the red mist or hunted theories. My theory is that against lower teams we fail to get sufficiently aroused (until too late), whereas against the top teams we are aroused with the good wins resulting.

once had a tennis coach describe tennis as balance of arousal and precision, too aroused and precision (ability to execute game plan) can drop… with poor results. insufficient arousal and precision irrelevant as not working hard enough to execute at level required to win. 
 

Are we talking about footy? When reading this post my eyes were drwan towards "aroused ' and my ability to focus similarly dropped off ?

[Deemania since 56 6,718]

3 hours ago, tiers said:

What seems to be happening is that there is no one on filed player to take control and give direction.

Normally the captain would fill this role but ......?

May is too far back, Lever too busy intercepting, Tracca guilty of not thinking it out so who's left.

I remember a game some years ago when we had scrambled to a small lead with little time to go. The only one then who showed initiative was TMac who, after kicking the winning goal, called for everyone to go down back (before 666). Why not give him the role.

Someone on the filed has to take charge.

TMac's experience might well provide a sound interpretation of what goes well, what won't go well and that which could go well at all costs. He does appear analytical but is also tucked away most games and possibly,, out of frequent contact with those players to whom such advice might be beneficial.

 

[tiers 2,843]

The topic of on field leadership has been tossed around in this thread and, whilst we may have some reasonable suggestions here, there remains the need to appoint someone of the coaches choice.

It's like Kennedy's injunction to his team to "do something". We can only hope that the coaches get the message and "do something".